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[kyser73]

In another thread I posted gifs illustrating how the animation system makes it so that failure in the traversal is nearly impossible. It's specifically designed in a way to make it so that the player has to go out of their way to fail.

...and yet my neighbour - who is no slouch at Diablo 3 - managed to fall repeatedly during the Scotland chapter I saw him playing.

You're judging the game based on your own gaming ability (which given you made a post about speed running on Crushing puts you into 'outlier' territory for a game with UC's audience IMO), effectively saying because it doesn't offer elite players a challenge it's badly designed.

 

[LostDonkey]

My thread quoted!

Just because you didn't notice it doesn't mean it wasn't there. More than enough people have complained to prove that there is an issue with the controls. I can guarantee you that game mode was "on" on my TV and I still exprieneced delayed contols.

And more than enough people in said thread have stated that they noticed nothing at all.

So which is it?

I play 90% of games on high end PC with 144hz so I'm pretty susceptible to any input lag.

ROTTR was a joy to play and no worse than any other console game I've played to date.

I feel more than it being "unplayable" it's simply a narrative "some" people have against the game.

 

[m4st4]

Can't wait to play Rise on PS4.

 

[kyser73]

Can't wait to play Rise on PS4.

Me too.

 

[GinoFelino]

Impossible to disagree more.

I appreciate the effort you put into explaining yourself though, OP. Most of these 'controversial opinion' threads are just to create a shit storm; this isn't like that.

If both are interactive movies of sorts, Tomb Raider may be slightly more interactive, but the movie is mostly dumb and needlessly violent.

I understand where some people may not agree with the 'walking sim' aspects of Uncharted 4, but it's done so well it's only in retrospect that I even noticed. It was wholly engrossing in the moment.

Honestly, I don't think the games can/should even be compared anymore.

It's as silly as it would be to compare Tomb Raider to Last of Us; those games just aren't attempting the same things.

 

[Bold One]

First off, godbless Sunhi for those gifs.

Secondly, the game is stunning, and it shits on TR13 visually and presentation wise. But those gifs don't really sell the combat well. I played on hard and if you dangled on the rope that long you are fucked. It's cool but it lacks the variety of TRs combat. The AI allys constantly moving around and not getting caught just takes me out of UCs combat at times.

For all the heavy attention to detail praise UC gets, it's really jarring to see your the NPCs not do shit and brush off an enemy and not get detected. It's also worth noting that before UC4 the stealth in UC was terrible. I need to go back and play TR13 because it's been a while, but I think it'll hold up better than UCs combat overall. Holy shit at UC4s melee combat, best contextual melee system ever. I barely ever saw the same things twice.

you probably should, lol

my recollection of TR combat was maxing out the bow and calmly headshotting every enemy then moving on. That's fun in it's own way but there wasn't a ton of variety, the enemies were too dumb to flank me and once upgraded the bow was OP.

there was no dynamism to the combat in TR, the one praise it got over uncharted was that the guns felt better and they did. but even then TR lacked the verticality in and freedom in combat,

 

[CrayToes]

TR is certainly more "gamey" so I can understand why some would prefer it. However, I think in terms of sheer scope, ambition and execution, Uncharted 4 blows both TR games out of the water.

Uncharted 1 & 3 would be a different question.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I disagree completely. I enjoyed both immensely, but Uncharted 4 is on another level. Tomb Raider 2013 is nice "game" that was focused tested to appeal to most fans of current AAA games, while Uncharted 4 is masterpiece and general work of art. TR2013 was built like it came off an assembly line with mechanics ripped from straight from other popular games. And the story, characters and dialogue are utter trash. If you are going the cinematic route the writing needs to be improved. Rise takes this approach even further with a "store" and some of most mundane side quests you can imagine.

 

[RedAssedApe]

Have they not patched this? I bought it one a flash sale and plan on playing through it again when the sequel hits PS4. I'm passing if this shit goes unaddressed. I ain't gonna put that kind of time in lol.

i bought it back in november when it was $5 on amazon and played it a few months later. doubt they are going to bother patching it.

if you ever end up playing it just make sure you occasionally save to a different slot so that you don't lose too much progress if it happens to you.

 

[Kristijan1001]

Enjoyed Tomb Raider 2013 With the fact that i was expecting that shows the begging of Lara Croft And That the next game "Rise of the Tomb Raider" will be the real croft we all know. Rich living in a mansion with her signature dual pistols.But no they fuked the whole franchise up and made it a fukin survival game where she uses bow and arrow which i enjoyed in the first game as of the "start of lara croft" but in the second one it was plain stupid.They could easily avoided ruining the franchise and introduced it like a new game(IP) instead of doing something that has no connection with the real original tomb raider other than few stuff (Their idea: Let's make a game where lara is stuck on an island where she needs to survive fans will love it.Fans loved first one.Next game:"Lets make the same thing she gets stuck and has to survive AGAIN but this time lets make it timed exclusive for xbone and ruin it even more")

Conclusion:The New Tomb Raider for me its no where near the level of Uncharted 4 at all.
Bring back old lara and remove the whole crafting survival aspect.(Tomb Raider III Will always be the best for me)

 

[T.O.P]

I didn't think much of TR2013 but ROTTR is easily on par with Uncharted 4 for me

The pacing is actually much better since i played through the game 3 times between X1 and PC...yet i tried to go for a second run on U4 and got bored not even an hour in

 

[Rathorial]

I'd agree with this view, as I actually enjoyed playing Tomb Raider 2013 and the Rise of follow-up. Too much of Naughty Dog's time and talent seems to go into production values and short set-piece moments...which let's face it are still largely about production values with a bit more dynamism.

After playing Doom and Uncharted 4 in the same week, and completing both...I was left incredibly more satisfied with Doom. I'm fine that Uncharted 4 leans more on traversal, stealth and exploration vs. combat, but it would've been nice if they put some more depth into those systems to justify their increased length. Too much of the game is really slight pattern variations for climbing, alot of pretty animation, and annoying characters constantly needing boosts or boxes to get to higher places.

What's worse is that during those puzzle and platforming sections, barely ANY story is delivered, and really are just some quips or grunts. Stealth has been slightly expanded with grass and bigger spaces, but you can't even hide bodies while guards can be alerted by them.

I see Naughty Dog get influenced by "exploration games", or pejoratively "walking simulators"...and it shows. Where there is nothing but collectibles, some art or at best light story to justify traversing the space, rather than providing the player anything meaningful to interact with or use.

I'm at the point where unless Naughty Dog really does something new, I'm kinda tired of paying for games I don't like to play just to get to sections of cutscene with a story to follow. I could just watch that on youtube, or wait until it's cheap...and then just watch it on youtube for them to get some money for their effort.

 

[NeoRaider]

Liked it a lot. Finished it 4 times.
I really liked mysterious story and most of the characters were good and well writen.

I can't agree about "tombs" they were very bad. Best puzzle was that DLC tomb. But ROTTR improved this A LOT.

 

[jadedm17]

I felt most of the same things playing UC4.

The combat, characters and story are far better in UC4, but Rise of Tomb Raider had far better exploration and purpose of what you found. Also a fucking bow.

I wish we could combine the two. There's room for both at least.

 

[Jawbreaker]

And more than enough people in said thread have stated that they noticed nothing at all.

So which is it?

I play 90% of games on high end PC with 144hz so I'm pretty susceptible to any input lag.

ROTTR was a joy to play and no worse than any other console game I've played to date.

I feel more than it being "unplayable" it's simply a narrative "some" people have against the game.

Digital Foundry

Input latency: One issue we struggled with throughout the game is its input latency. Prior to receiving the game, we spent some time revisiting Tomb Raider on both PlayStation 3 and PlayStation 4 and found that Rise of the Tomb Raider feels less responsive. Aiming is more cumbersome and difficult here to the point where it feels more as if you're pushing the camera rather than directly controlling it. It's not an issue during exploration or puzzle solving, but combat suffers.

 

[Kölsch Bloot]

I canno't remember anything from this game, except it took place on an cursed island.

Uncharted on the other hand.......

And that's not just the writing. Gameplay was also shallow in TR2013, whereas it always felt fluent and intuitive in the Uncharted series.

But als always: oppinions differ.

 

[Sintoid]

I enjoyed TR2013 because of its focus on exploration but it's a very different game from U4 and while there's a good balance between exploration and gunfight in U4 the same can't be told about TR. Gunfight in TR is bland and too inaccurate while in U4 the mix of melee and weapons improved again the original formula wich is still unbeaten in my opinion

 

[spekkeh]

I think I like Uncharted 4 more, simply because of the better characters and sense of adventure, but it's not a home run. I prefer Tomb Raider 13 over Uncharted 1-3, and there are still some things it does better than U4. Uncharted's environments are more beautiful and varied, but they also feel very fast food like. You do your usual stuff in them and then forget about them, there's next to nothing to set them apart. Whether in Scotland or Madagascar, safe for a vehicle section you're mostly just scurrying across indentured walls and shooting enemies from behind objects. Tomb Raider's Metroidvania approach makes you reevaluate the same scenery a number of times, giving you much more a sense of place. And whereas I liked that U4 gives the chapters more of a complete dramatic arc as opposed to previous games (though not enough, would've liked more closure at the end of every chapter, like a proper mini series), it also means the proceeds become kind of predictable. In every major locale you'll have exposition, climbing, puzzle, climbing, shooting, exposition. It feels like Tomb Raider used some locales more for a specific type of gameplay.

 

[IzzyF3]

Just because I like listing things:

Uncharted 4>Tomb Raider 2013> Uncharted 2> Rise of the Tomb Raider

I think I'll need to play Rise again. It feel like I should enjoy it more than I did for some reason.

 

[Coolbgdog12]

Show me a person who says they don't think Rise of the Tomb Raider is amazing and I will show you a dirty liar.

Right here. I thought ROTR was absolutely boring. I thought TR 2013 was fine and I liked it despite it being inferior in quite a few ways to UC2 at the time but ROTR?? Naw, after hearing about how it's "soo good" by early Xbox players, I bought it day one on Steam. I damn near rolled my eyes at how by the books and check point mass consumption it felt. I just started skipping the cutscenes towards the end of the game to finish it. I never went back. It's simply imo a bad game.

 

[Kristijan1001]

I disagree completely. I enjoyed both immensely, but Uncharted 4 is on another level. Tomb Raider 2013 is nice "game" that was focused tested to appeal to most fans of current AAA games, while Uncharted 4 is masterpiece and general work of art. TR2013 was built like it came off an assembly line with mechanics ripped from straight from other popular games. And the story, characters and dialogue are utter trash. If you are going the cinematic route the writing needs to be improved. Rise takes this approach even further with a "store" and some of most mundane side quests you can imagine.

Can not agree more with you.Tomb Raider was ok the second one was mediocre at most.What most bugged me is the fact they called this game Tomb Raider and not introduce it as a new IP.First one was ok to have the survial aspect but i expected second one to be abit more of the orginal TombRaider/Lara i mean they didn't even bring back the dual pistols which is the biggest signature weapon for lara, which it was insanely disappointing they also took the survival/crafting road again.

 

[Fortinbras]

Outside of the story which I do believe is improved, I thought it was a step back from '13.

This.

I also enjoyed TR 2013 more than any of the Uncharted games except 4.

Rise however was one of my biggest disappointments last year.

 

[Ratrat]

I agree with you op. U4 is fine for what it is. I enjoyed it. But Tomb Raider was just much more satisfying as a game.

 

[ethomaz]

I can't agree.

U4 is a masterclass in action/pace for me... I can't even sleep because the game didn't stop in a way I get bored... it was incredible.

About TR well 2013 is a good version even with avg. gameplay/exploration while the new one is a step back.

U4 >> TR'2013 > RoTR

Balance I guess it is the key... U4 does balance gunplay and exploration in a perfect way while TR'2013 made me want to skill most gunplay parts.

 

[ffvorax]

I feel that UC4 lack just of more combat sessions, but overall it's so polished and well made that it doesn't matter too much... i can just play again the action section in the "replay menu".

I liked the rebooted TR, but i don't remember a single enigma, the story, the fights... nothing.
It was a good game, but not so good in any part of it... I clearly remeber many sections of the past uncharted games, also their story.

Also the puzzles... I don't feel TR puzzles to be better than UC4... they are just different.

Overall UC4 is way better, but TR it's still a very good game and I'm curious to play "Rise of..." when it comes to PS4 to see which improvements they made to the formula. (still I don't expect a good story/characters)

EDIT:
I want to add that I agree about the "found something useful", cause the only item that add something is the "thing to climb that i don't know how to speech in english"... but it's something that could have been used a lot more... and the most funny new thing in the game is the rope, but it's available from the beginning.

 

[Huggers]

I haven't played Uncharted 4 yet but found TR 2013 to be a dull soulless slog. Felt a bit cookie cutter to me. I finished it and by the end found myself totally bemused how people rated it.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I could say the same Assassins Creed series really... I don't think either of the franchises platforming is all that demanding but it's not like it's an easy button on either of them. Still takes observation, notice, and travesal. Add in ropes, enviromental ques, etc. I think it's a fair balance and not just a "hold stick in a single direction"

Well one of the biggest complaints of AC was how easy it was to mess up and completely lose your flow. When they made AC3 the magnetism of the animation was made obvious by some of the longer jumps, that's was rectified when they made ACU and it become more skill based and difficult to make the parkour look and feel natural. Again due to the nature of the game it can't be as demanding as something like ME but the player still has to put more thought into where they're going and how to get there since there are a fuckton more routes to take than in any given moment in UC considering the open world but also in missions as well, (because there aren't contextual climbing objects painted a specific color...). One of my main criticisms of the last AC actually was that they streamlined it a bit too much and made it too hard to fail which sacrificed some player agency, (you now had to go out of your way to fall to your death which is less fun than jumping off a building and manually catching a handhold to avoid death via fall damage, they also removed manual jumping unless there was a specific safe landing which again, takes away player agency, the only positive is that it prevented immersion breaking events like those floaty ACUnity gifs that got spammed to hell and back due to the parkour+up against flat terrain=very long jumps exploit but that's not a good tradeoff imho).
The rope too, it takes no thought, once the icon is there you're safe no matter what you do whether it's jumping off and doing it mid jump or pulling it while standing. What they could've done is had it so that breaking objects isn't just a scripted event that makes you yawn, (because we've had four games of Drake grabbing things followed by them breaking while he goes "whoaaa" "oh shittttt" "quuiiipppp," it loses it's luster because even seeing it the first time we know in the majority of cases he's not gonna fall and that he'll catch himself on the very last handhold), they could've had it be dynamic and based on things like momentum. Or have many more climbing routes instead of a single main path in the majority of cases. Like actually do something with the mechanic that makes it interesting outside of combat encounters and looking at pretty graphics.

Neither compare to the skill required for ME though. But between those and other 3rd person action games, (SoM, Infamous, TR), I'd say UC has the least amount of thought required for the climbing since it was always used as a palette cleanser, and they slightly expanded on it by allowing players to manually grab things via the stick, which is used literally on a single time in the campaign when they removed the ability to mash X

Spoiler

after the boat crash.

...and yet my neighbour - who is no slouch at Diablo 3 - managed to fall repeatedly during the Scotland chapter I saw him playing.

You're judging the game based on your own gaming ability (which given you made a post about speed running on Crushing puts you into 'outlier' territory for a game with UC's audience IMO), effectively saying because it doesn't offer elite players a challenge it's badly designed.

Tell him that literally any time Drake holds his hand out he's safe, that includes roping, sliding, climbing. Yes i'm quite good at games but I still don't think UC requires any skill whatsoever especially since during the tutorial they saw "Whenever Drake holds out his hand he's safe." A mechanic which is incredibly lenient. I never even said or implied that it was badly designed, just that there's is a very low ceiling when it comes to the thought required for the climbing itself since it's definitely not used to it's full potential or dynamic enough since it's designed to ensure player survival in the majority of cases. Like I suggested above I'd love it if things like objects breaking weren't a scripted event that played the exact same way it has throughout the entire series and actually required something like a quick reaction to catch yourself. Or if the most challenging jump in the game wasn't

Spoiler

*Gasp* I have to use the rope, a second time after using the rope! In chapter 21

I didn't go through the game on Crushing the first time btw, I played on Moderate.

 

[CloudWolf]

TR 2013 is a mixed bag for me. I liked the exploration and most elements of the gameplay, but good lord was the story awful. Every emotional moment fell flat and those scripted action moments were painful.

Rise of the Tomb Raider was better IMO due to a much better written story and the finetuned gameplay.

 

[Galactic Barret]

I haven't played UC4 yet, but I'd argue that TR'13 isn't even better than UC2, moment to moment. I remember a bunch of pick-axing and arrow shooting (That was fun), but it lacked any real incentive to slog through it.

Or, maybe I just put UC2 on some type of pedestal. It was so fucking good; playing TR'13, I would often exclaim aloud "this is 3rd person Far Cry mixed with Uncharted, its not too bad." But I just got bored and stopped playing.

I'd say TR'13 and UC3 are on the same tier, though: Good if you haven't played games of their ilk lately, but utterly disappointing if you have.

The absolute worst thing ever was picking up treasure in TR'13 and listening to the horrible VA when it read out the description. The VA in general really killed enjoyment for me.

 

[Bold One]

Actually I do remember something significant when I played TR2013, about 30 minutes in to the game it dawned on me that the developers at CD had played A LOT of Uncharted, I mean a lot. so they tried to distil what they thought made those games fun add really good combat, added some lite rpg elements for the illusion of progression (evidently gamers love that), turn the spectacle up to 11 and the gore-fetish higher still and you know what for the most part it worked.

But in the cold light of day, you try to remember exactly what you did, and you just can't. Like a dream upon waking except you dont care...

 

[Mabufu]

Uncharted 4 is all about production values.
Amazing graphics/locations/animations... but the gameplay doesnt follow I think.

There are not enough epic Uncharted moments to break the climb/shooting monotony.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

I played U4 on Crushing, and that might be partially my mistake, but at this point I expect games to get better on higher difficulties. To demand mastery of all the mechanics present in the game. Instead of mastering melee, rope swinging, but sliding, and shrub crouch-walking, it reduced it to the most tedious hide behind cover and run to different cover when you get flanked gameplay possible. I guess you had to make good use of grenades. That was about it.

Want to use different weapons? Too bad, the rarer ones don't drop enough ammo, so shoot them in place and pick up your old standard weapon. 30 rounds of Para ammo is too precious for you to consider leaving behind. Sorry. Want to use the big fat chaingun the huge asshole dropped after you finally killed him? Too bad, you'll move too slow, your aim speed will be too slow, and you won't be able to use cover at all so you'll die in two seconds.

Want to rope swing at someone or melee them? Well they better be the last fucking guy in the encounter because you're going to get killed during the animation otherwise. Especially if the game decides to throw you in a 'mash triangle to escape' situation, where you'll be shot dead halfway through the meter filling up.

I could have played it on an easier setting, and had a bit more fun tarzaning around. But then the whole game would have been stupidly easy, and thus still unsatisfying to me.

The autoplatforming nature of U4 is digusting at this point. Mash X along the cliff handhold path... occasionally hear Nate go NO NO NO as it crumbles and he grabs something else. *yawn*. Even the rope is little more than a quicktime event. You don't even have to find or aim at the damn things, you'll be sliding to your doom and you just have to mash L1 when the prompt appears. God forbid you have to find something to rope onto yourself and execute a maneuver with timing and precision.

I remember when I gave up on the gameplay in U4. It's during the great Madgascar jeep-a-thon, where you learn about the winch. I went up the stairs on a later winch point, went to tie it around the tree, noticed that it was caught on a rock, and tried to lead the rope so it wouldn't be. Tried to mantle over the rock, tried to go back around in front of it. Nope. Won't let you... then you get back in the Jeep and look at that... the rock knocks the Jeep off the cliff and you have to NO NO NO climb back into the seat and drive back up the cliff. What a pile of shit. God forbid you let me exercise my monkey brain a little and avoid the all important NO NO NO event.

So at least TR2013 feels like you're playing a video game. 60fps fun mouse+keyboard combat on PC, fun traversal. I didn't recall hating the story, even if it wasn't as fun and lighthearted as that wacky Nathan Drake National Treasure crew. Uncharted is great technical skill and voice/writing talent wasted on a hollow game design.

Hell, when it comes to a shooting, punching, and driving adventure game, from a gameplay perspective I don't even know if U4 stacks up to:

 

[Raylan]

Disagree.

TR2013 is good, but Uncharted 4 is much better in every way.
And Rise of the Tomb Raider is worse than TR2013.

 

[xorx]

I liked TR 2013 but everything felt more... cheap than UC4. The combat, platforming, story all felt like they were a few steps from being good.

I do agree that UC4 has some issues, pacing (and Im not talking about the beginning, I mean that some sections have too much of one thing before something else shows up. ie. Scotland) but those issues are nothing compared to TR 2013, which are more at a fundamental level.

 

[Mathieran]

I agree with you, OP. I wish we could marry Uncharted writing with TR gameplay. That would be amazing.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Tomb Raider is Uncharted with all the charm and fun sucked out of it.

It takes itself way too seriously and the writing is quite frankly shit. Uncharted has much better storytelling, acting and dialogue, even all the NPC chatter and optional dialogues are wonderfully done.

I also much prefer UC's gameplay, its combat sandboxes are way more dynamic and fun. Sure, you can argue you want more of these - and I agree - but what is there is more fun than anything in Tomb Raider. And look at that E3 set-piece, nothing in TR comes close to that. I also appreciate that UC doesn't have that shitty XP and leveling system, a bane of modern gaming.

And in terms of presentation, UC4 leaves TR in the dust.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I agree with you, OP. I wish we could marry Uncharted writing with TR gameplay. That would be amazing.

We have TLOU2 to look forward too, which will probably make use of large environments WAY better than UC4. Hopefully minus the dumpster and boost me up nonsense. Seriously, that doesn't build a bond between a character and players nor does it advance the story so they need to go, I don't think anyone in their right mind would criticize ND for their removal or unironically say "Man I miss the moments where I'd boost a character up for the tenth time or pushed yet another plot dumpster."

 

[Nightengale]

We have TLOU2 to look forward too, which will probably make use of large environments WAY better than UC4.

Yeah,but also more limited traversal options. Don't think mobility empowerment fits with the design of TLOU from the design perspective of ND .

 

[CadetMahoney]

ROTR is a better game than Uncharted 4.

Not necessarily sure if I'd say 2013 is but the sequel absolutely is. ROTR is also a better sequel than Uncharted 4.

Played ROTR it on PC and loved it, never played 2013.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Yeah,but also more limited traversal options. Don't think mobility empowerment fits with the design of TLOU from the design perspective of ND .

I'd trade mind numbing climbing with some places to actually explore while finding useful things like items and weapons. Big fan of player progression and being rewarded by something other than a pretty cave.

 

[Vroadstar]

Totally disagree with you OP, TR2013 don't even come close to U4.

I guess you forgot that TR2013 took a LOT of inspiration from previous Uncharted, TR is nothing but a steward (a good steward I give you that) but U4 just blows TR out of the water

 

[Brine]

I played U4 on Crushing, and that might be partially my mistake, but at this point I expect games to get better on higher difficulties. To demand mastery of all the mechanics present in the game. Instead of mastering melee, rope swinging, but sliding, and shrub crouch-walking, it reduced it to the most tedious hide behind cover and run to different cover when you get flanked gameplay possible. I guess you had to make good use of grenades. That was about it.

Want to use different weapons? Too bad, the rarer ones don't drop enough ammo, so shoot them in place and pick up your old standard weapon. 30 rounds of Para ammo is too precious for you to consider leaving behind. Sorry. Want to use the big fat chaingun the huge asshole dropped after you finally killed him? Too bad, you'll move too slow, your aim speed will be too slow, and you won't be able to use cover at all so you'll die in two seconds.

Want to rope swing at someone or melee them? Well they better be the last fucking guy in the encounter because you're going to get killed during the animation otherwise. Especially if the game decides to throw you in a 'mash triangle to escape' situation, where you'll be shot dead halfway through the meter filling up.

I could have played it on an easier setting, and had a bit more fun tarzaning around. But then the whole game would have been stupidly easy, and thus still unsatisfying to me.

The autoplatforming nature of U4 is digusting at this point. Mash X along the cliff handhold path... occasionally hear Nate go NO NO NO as it crumbles and he grabs something else. *yawn*. Even the rope is little more than a quicktime event. You don't even have to find or aim at the damn things, you'll be sliding to your doom and you just have to mash L1 when the prompt appears. God forbid you have to find something to rope onto yourself and execute a maneuver with timing and precision.

I remember when I gave up on the gameplay in U4. It's during the great Madgascar jeep-a-thon, where you learn about the winch. I went up the stairs on a later winch point, went to tie it around the tree, noticed that it was caught on a rock, and tried to lead the rope so it wouldn't be. Tried to mantle over the rock, tried to go back around in front of it. Nope. Won't let you... then you get back in the Jeep and look at that... the rock knocks the Jeep off the cliff and you have to NO NO NO climb back into the seat and drive back up the cliff. What a pile of shit. God forbid you let me exercise my monkey brain a little and avoid the all important NO NO NO event.

So at least TR2013 feels like you're playing a video game. 60fps fun mouse+keyboard combat on PC, fun traversal. I didn't recall hating the story, even if it wasn't as fun and lighthearted as that wacky Nathan Drake National Treasure crew. Uncharted is great technical skill and voice/writing talent wasted on a hollow game design.

Hell, when it comes to a shooting, punching, and driving adventure game, from a gameplay perspective I don't even know if U4 stacks up to:

yeah, playing on crushing isn't really the way to play Uncharted if you're trying to have a fun experience, simply because the game itself isn't designed to play on crushing and still play the game as you're "supposed" to.

 

[justsomeguy]

I haven't played uc4 but I wanted to just congratulate the OP on a thoughtful and eloquent post. Really good to read.

 

[Saint of Killers]

Uncharted 4 is without doubt the single most entertaining product I have consumed in 2016. It may not be as interactive as TR'13, but I know which one of the two made a bigger impression on me.

 

[dlauv]

Story sucks in both TR games and make me feel nothing. I started skipping their cutscenes after a while because they were so bland and poor. But the story actively pisses me off in Uncharted 1-3.

I don't know how good UC4 is, but I hear it's basically more of the same.

I think combat and overall controls were better in TR '13 than in Rise, but seeing as how you really appreciate the exploration in TR '13, Rise is a step up in that category.

I think combat, controls, pacing and exploration in both TR games are better than UC1-3.

Not messing with the circle button to get into cover and having all of your weapons on hand really alleviate some of the control bungling with Uncharted's clunky dodge/cover and weapon exchanging system. In TR '13, you can actually weave in and out of a thick of enemies with melee finishers, sand, and the shotgun. Rise's gunplay is bog-standard and fairly close to UC, but it still comes out on top due to the aforementioned mechanical betterments.

Both do platforming and exploration a lot better than Uncharted, like you said. UC4 even apes the pickaxe platforming. TR '13 had snappier control than Rise in all movement departments.

 

[ffvorax]

I played U4 on Crushing, and that might be partially my mistake, but at this point I expect games to get better on higher difficulties. To demand mastery of all the mechanics present in the game. Instead of mastering melee, rope swinging, but sliding, and shrub crouch-walking, it reduced it to the most tedious hide behind cover and run to different cover when you get flanked gameplay possible. I guess you had to make good use of grenades. That was about it.

Want to use different weapons? Too bad, the rarer ones don't drop enough ammo, so shoot them in place and pick up your old standard weapon. 30 rounds of Para ammo is too precious for you to consider leaving behind. Sorry. Want to use the big fat chaingun the huge asshole dropped after you finally killed him? Too bad, you'll move too slow, your aim speed will be too slow, and you won't be able to use cover at all so you'll die in two seconds.

Want to rope swing at someone or melee them? Well they better be the last fucking guy in the encounter because you're going to get killed during the animation otherwise. Especially if the game decides to throw you in a 'mash triangle to escape' situation, where you'll be shot dead halfway through the meter filling up.

I could have played it on an easier setting, and had a bit more fun tarzaning around. But then the whole game would have been stupidly easy, and thus still unsatisfying to me.

The autoplatforming nature of U4 is digusting at this point. Mash X along the cliff handhold path... occasionally hear Nate go NO NO NO as it crumbles and he grabs something else. *yawn*. Even the rope is little more than a quicktime event. You don't even have to find or aim at the damn things, you'll be sliding to your doom and you just have to mash L1 when the prompt appears. God forbid you have to find something to rope onto yourself and execute a maneuver with timing and precision.

I remember when I gave up on the gameplay in U4. It's during the great Madgascar jeep-a-thon, where you learn about the winch. I went up the stairs on a later winch point, went to tie it around the tree, noticed that it was caught on a rock, and tried to lead the rope so it wouldn't be. Tried to mantle over the rock, tried to go back around in front of it. Nope. Won't let you... then you get back in the Jeep and look at that... the rock knocks the Jeep off the cliff and you have to NO NO NO climb back into the seat and drive back up the cliff. What a pile of shit. God forbid you let me exercise my monkey brain a little and avoid the all important NO NO NO event.

So at least TR2013 feels like you're playing a video game. 60fps fun mouse+keyboard combat on PC, fun traversal. I didn't recall hating the story, even if it wasn't as fun and lighthearted as that wacky Nathan Drake National Treasure crew. Uncharted is great technical skill and voice/writing talent wasted on a hollow game design.

Hell, when it comes to a shooting, punching, and driving adventure game, from a gameplay perspective I don't even know if U4 stacks up to:

It's like you never played an Uncharted game... that is the Crashing difficulty (good or bad that it is for that), and these are the "gags"... I knew that rock would fuck up something, but I was ok with that... still it would be ok if possible to avoid that, but isn't it funny to see nathan say "no no no" everytime trying to keep cool?

The Last of Us is more "open" than Uncharted games in terms of gameplay, and hopefully TLOU2 will be even better. It's just a different kind of manage gameplay. If you would be able to skip most of the "no no no" situations in UC, the game would be so boring...

 

[johnnydrama]

While I absolutely loved Uncharted 4's story, and I had an overall good time, I simply have no intention to go back for another playthrough any time soon. The combat is pretty great, but after I finished the game, I realized it was a great "experience", but I wasn't having "fun" like I did with Tomb Raider and Rise of the Tomb Raider. The platforming and exploration sections were a bit of a slog even on the first playthrough, and I can't bring myself go through all of it again. Uncharted 4 is a fantastic one-time experience, but I don't think I can do it again (not right now at least). I'll go back through chapter/encounter select from time to time to ogle at those pretty graphics though. On the other hand, I'm planning on doing another run of Rise of the Tomb Raider on PC, since I really enjoyed it on Xbox, despite the story being mostly piss.

End of the day, both games are a solid 8.5 for me, but for different reasons. Uncharted 4 has great characters and a fantastic story, but Rise of the Tomb Raider (And TR2013) is just an absolute joy to play. Honestly can't wait to see what Crystal Dynamics do next.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

I found that neither TR lived up to its potential, Uncharted 4 is a better game across the board, for me.

 

[Equanimity]

I'd trade mind numbing climbing with some places to actually explore while finding useful things like items and weapons. Big fan of player progression and being rewarded by something other than a pretty cave.

I found the climbing animations of UC4 to be the most satisfying of any game, better than ME, AC and Dying Light.

 

[Neff]

Even though Tomb Raider 2013 is essentially a cynical, derivative bullet point checklist of everything fashionable about contemporary gaming (open world, crafting, levelling, setpieces, detective mode etc, not to mention a huge crush on Uncharted), I still enjoyed it far more than my time with Uncharted 1-3. After an awkward start, I found the story interesting, the combat satisfying (headshots actually work), and the environment enticing. With the Uncharteds, there were moments of such wretched logic with both the gameplay and story that I just wanted them to end.

I still haven't played 4, but I doubt I will.