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LTTP: Zone of the Enders HD Collection - more flashy than good

Miker

Member
First off, I love giant robots, sci-fi melodrama, and fast-paced action. Zone of the Enders' HIGH SPEED ROBOT ACTION is pretty much tailored to my tastes, and it was my first retail game I bought for my PS3. But I didn't like either of them :(

Going into ZOE1, I knew of its reputation as a shitty prequel/tech demo for ZOE2, and I was still surprised at how bad it was. The plot and dialogue were atrocious, the protagonist was insufferable, and the ending was complete bullshit, but worst of all, it kind of played like crap. Technical deficits in the HD Collection aside, it so shallow that it managed to make a four-hour long game mind-numbingly repetitive. Every fight was approached the same way (homing shot from far, melee dash attack, melee x3-> melee burst), and the subweapons were clumsy and limited by ammo. Beyond that, the hub structure added absolutely nothing to the game.

Then I played ZOE2, all patched up by Hexadrive, expecting all killer, no filler. And it started off well. A cooler, albeit stupidly-named protagonist. More unique mechs designed by Shinkawa da gawd. A more polished, actually worthwhile subweapon system. And my god, it looked so damn awesome. Particle effects out the ass, increased enemy counts, lasers everywhere, camera going crazy during mech-to-mech swordfights.

But it was all still the same thing as ZOE1. I was going through the same motions as I was in the first game, only with some occasional subweapon use or grabbing here and there. And as it got harder, the more it seemed like particle effects were obscuring enemies, lasers were melting me from offscreen (screw Mummyheads), and the camera was too twitchy for its own good. And it just kept on going and going.

I think the designs realized that the core combat wasn't deep enough to sustain a whole game, so they added a bunch of gimmick sections and boss fights, which range from okay to downright awful. The worst was the invisible minefield section, which, while thankfully short, was obnoxious listening to "A little bit to the left. A little bit to the left. A little bit to the right." Other ones I wasn't fond of were the
grabbing enemies to throw at Nephtis section
(I found it a bit awkward), and the
lock swords with Ardjet section
(it got old quick,and you have do it 8 times).

It wasn't just me that felt the repetition - my girlfriend, who was next to me as I played, commented "it looks like you've been doing the same thing for forever now." And I really was. ZOE2 seems to think that if something is worth doing once, it's worth doing at least a few times. The waves of enemies you fight leading up to the fight with the old man really, really wore me down. The battleship section, in which you have to take down five of the damn things, is where I finally stopped, partially because I was tired of dodging offscreen lasers and partially because my brain was turning to mush.

It's weird, but as I played ZOE2, I was comparing it to God Hand. God Hand, which is one of my favorite games, is honestly pretty damn repetitive. It lacks enemy variety and its encounter design isn't much more than waves of enemies in different-looking environments. However, its core systems are so strong that it stays fun to play throughout. ZOE2, on the other hand, has core systems that are simply too weak to carry the game through its runtime.

I'm being very negative about the series, but it's more disappointment than anything else. I love the mechanical designs to death and artwork to death (I'd love to own Jehuty/Anubis models), and I think the games look amazing in motion. I only wish the art and engine were put to use in better games.
 
Seems to me like a lot of the people who dislike the series actually played both games. I only played ZoE2 HD and I adore it.

Taking out the fleet of five ships and the following Zakat fight are so damn good.
 

antitrop

Member
Zone of the Enders was the first game I bought with my PS2. I played it for like 2 hours, hated it, and just played the MGS2 demo until something actually good on the system came out.

I loved how all the reviewers were tripping over themselves, trying to claim how the game was more than just the demo that came packed in with it.

But they were wrong.
 

Miker

Member
Yeah, I'm at the battleship section right now, and it's too difficult/annoying for me to continue. Like the rest of the game, I thought it was totally awesome in the first few minutes - dodging anti-air lasers, landing on the battleship, charging up the vector cannon, and taking down a whole battleship. Totally awesome. In the first few minutes.

Then I moved onto the second ship, then the third, and died on the fourth. And I had to restart from the very beginning. After a few more tries, I just gave up.
 
I played these for the first time when the HD collection came out and wasn't impressed. ZOE2 was an average game with a few cool parts and ZOE1 was just awful.
 

number47

Member
I agree that zoe1 is such a filler for part two. But I think you're terrible if you cant just get rid of the enemies before attacking the ship. Iono lock on more.
 

Glowsquid

Member
The HD collection was my first experience with the series. ZOE 1 feels like they spent most of development devising a flashy (but shallow) free floating combat system, and then in the last two months someone realized "Oh shit guys, we forgot to make a game around this."

ZOE 2 was better, but not enough, and I gave up on it after beating Vic Viper.
 

jett

D-Member
Agreed. ZOE2HD was a total waste of money on my end. Only reminded that they only reason I liked this game on PS2 was due to the graphics probably. So many gimmick levels, and most of them are fucking terrible, designed to stretch an already thin-ass content-lacking game.

Screw this franchise. The world deserves to not have ZOE3.
 

Miker

Member
Huh. I'm kind of surprised at the range of opinions here. I expected a lot more backlash and "git gud."
 

Jawmuncher

Member
Funny enough I still feel Zoe1 was the better game. ZOE1 sticks around just right. ZOE2 to me felt like it dragged on especially with it's increase in difficulty. Still both good for what they are games. The soundtracks are still the highlight for me.

Agreed. ZOE2HD was a total waste of money on my end. Only reminded that they only reason I liked this game on PS2 was due to the graphics probably. So many gimmick levels, and most of them are fucking terrible, designed to stretch an already thin-ass content-lacking game.

Screw this franchise. The world deserves to not have ZOE3.

Yep a lot of the gimmick stuff kills ZOE2 for me. Traverse the minefield, carry the broken mech, handle all these enemies. I just wasn't a fan of the gameplay ideas there.


---------------

Just put on Beyond the Bounds. Man that song always gets me pumped.
The original and the remix kick ass.
 

thelastword

Banned
ZOE2 is now more than playable, it's fantastic. Avoid ZOE1 though.
ZOE 1 was not in the state that ZOE2 was pre-patch, it would be nice if ZOE1 got the Hexadrive treatment too, but it's a good enough upgrade over the PS2 copy, if you love the games play them both I say, it's not expensive anyway and it's been on sale quite a bit.
 

Miker

Member
Decided to go back to ZOE2 and beat the battleship fight, then finish the rest of the game. Wasn't that bad after spamming the homing missile to take care of reinforcements. The rest of the game was pretty simple, especially after getting the Zero Shift. The Anubis fight was surprisingly gimmick-free, but the final fight wasn't particularly impressive in terms of scale.

My thoughts on it still haven't really changed, though. It had a dull ending to a dull story filled with dull characters. I think it took me around 7 hours to finish, including cutscenes, but I think an hour could be shaved off and you'd be left with a better game.
 
I agree.

ZOE was the first game I rented with my shiny new PS2, although for the obvious inclusion of the MGS2 demo. It was a neat tech demo, but I didn't put any real time into it. I never had a chance to play ZOE2 on the PS2. Fast forward to the HD Collection, which I eagerly pre-ordered, hearing nothing but praise for ZOE2 and wanting to give the games a fair chance.

Both games can definitely be characterized as style over substance. And, unfortunately, the core gameplay is not interesting enough to sustain the meager plot (especially with the piss-poor characters and voice acting). I love everything about the flashy graphics, slick moveset and freedom of movement, but you are correct in saying that virtually every scenario can be approached the same way. When the games try to diverge and shake up the gameplay, it results in annoyances like that god-awful minefield section in ZOE2.

However, with that being said, the battle of Aumaan Crevasse in ZOE2 is everything done right, and alone is worth playing the game for, especially when going for an SS rank. This is a battle that requires all of your skills and battlefield awareness. I wish the series included additional scenarios that offered a similar challenge and diversity.
 

Will M

Member
I haven't played either one in ages but I distinctly remember loving the combat and the mobility of Jehuty. To this day, it's still the only "mech" game I remember liking. Hoping Konami doesn't forget about the series forever.
 
Well, I wasn't fond of the first and thought the 2nd outdid it in basically every way.
Character, story, combat, everything.

Character was a big improvement.
Sub weps being useful another big thing.
Zero-shift and vector cannon = oh my god this is awesome

Sadly Konami not being able to do anything with the IPs they have (castlevania, gradius, silent hill, etc...) doesn't leave me with any faith that they could do a proper ZOE (MGS, MGRising) without koji pro

Yeah, maybe we'll have a repeat with Platinum having to salvage things again.
Better than nothing.
 

Miker

Member
You know your radar ring tells you when incoming fire is headed your way off screen. Use your shield. Or move out the way

Yeah, but when the camera's going crazy and you have multiple Mummyheads shooting their sweeping yellow lasers at you, it's difficult to avoid damage.
 

pachuco

Member
For a Kojima game, I am surprised there aren't more fan boys here extolling the virtues of this very mediocre game.
 
I've played all three Zone of the Enders games and didn't really like any of them. The 2nd Runner is by far the strongest, but I think it was over-hyped. Definitely a good game, though. It's also pretty short too.

For a Kojima game, I am surprised there aren't more fan boys here extolling the virtues of this very mediocre game.
Wasn't he just a producer for the series?
 

hekkutah

Neo Member
I adored ZOE 1. It was my first PS2 game. And I didn't buy it for the MGS 2 demo lol. But ZOE 2 was amazing! Loved everything about it.

Still praying for a ZOE 3. Although that seems even less likely now of all times due to the situation with Konami and Kojima.
 

Korigama

Member
ZOE1 was average, with far too many "defend this/that" missions and the annoying burden of minimizing collateral damage at all times. ZOE2 was everything that the first game should have been and more. That said, for as highly as I think of ZOE2, I don't consider ZOE3 an utmost necessity.
 
I've said this before, but I consider ZoE1 to be a proof of concept game. It was alright, but nothing spectacular. But hey, if people didn't buy it for the MGS2 demo, there wouldn't have been one of the greatest sequels ever. Zone of the Enders 2 is one of the best PS2 games ever full stop. And one of my favourite games ever. Amazing game and have a lot of love for it. Been meaning to go back and play it again on PS3. Last time was when they patched it and it was on par, if not better, than the PS2 version. Amazing work from Hexadrive after the botch-up from High Voltage.

Agreed. ZOE2HD was a total waste of money on my end. Only reminded that they only reason I liked this game on PS2 was due to the graphics probably. So many gimmick levels, and most of them are fucking terrible, designed to stretch an already thin-ass content-lacking game.

Screw this franchise. The world deserves to not have ZOE3.

get-out-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-192.gif


For a Kojima game, I am surprised there aren't more fan boys here extolling the virtues of this very mediocre game.

Choose your next words carefully. If you're referring to Zone of the Enders 1, I could begrudgingly let it go. If you're referring to Zone of the Enders 2, we've got a problem.
 
When I heard all the praise for ZOE 2 I thought I needed that game, then I played it and I was left with the impression that I played a totally different game than what I heard about.

Also, even the presentation of the game was awful, specially that horrible song they somehow decided it was so cool that they made it the intro for the HD collection.
 
Hey guys what is going on over here...


DID SOMEONE JUST INSULT BEYOND THE BOUNDS

HULKSMAAAAAAASSSSH


Ahem...

I will say this about ZoE2; it is best played at the harder difficulties as you start seeing situations where the various sub-weapons are more useful so it doesn't feel as repetitive. I also thought the gimmicky sections were great. They fit the story great and never overstayed their welcome.
 
I never played ZotE before the HD collection, and it just made me sad that I could've been playing ZotE2 like 10 years before when I first tried it.

ZotE I forced myself to play, it wasn't awful, just boring whenever I wasn't killing something.

ZotE2 just blew me away though, I actually sold off my vanilla copy of the game when I found a cheap enough Collectors Edition, so at least that worked out in my favor.
 

Liethe

Member
I played through all of ZoE2 HD recent-ish on one sitting. Maybe that wasn't the best idea as the game felt a lot more repetitive than I remembered from the PS2 times. I feel like to truly shine it needed more options on how to attack enemies with Jehuty's blade... as it is you only get a "mash the button repeatedly" single combo, with an option to send enemies up or down at the end and a dash slash. :/ The ranged options usually also felt unsatisying to use despite the multi-lock-on beam looking fantastic.

Still a marked improvement over the first game and well worth playing for people who never did.
 
Zone of the enders 2 was a life changing experience. I can't describe how much I love that game. I was young when I played that game and when I completed it, I was in tears cause I was that upset it was over.

I bought the HD remasters but didn't dive in because of the bad things I heard about them.

Still praying for a ZoE 3, please Konami
 

Miker

Member
Man, even if ZOE2 wasn't really repetitive, I'd still count it off for having such a shitty story. Dingo is less whiny and annoying than Leo, but that doesn't excuse how dull the plot is. No twists, no characters worth caring about, and it's all delivered via crappy dialogue and poorly-delivered voice acting. I guess the story is really about Jehuty vs. Anubis, but even so, I'd like some decent interactions between the cast.

Also, I couldn't stop calling Ken "Ken Marinara Sauce."
 

Allonym

There should be more tampons in gaming
The games are great but the battle at the gorge easily trumps the sky battle with the battleships.
 
Whoa, this thread is quite recent. I'm playing through the HD collection right now, after it's been sitting in my backlog for well over a year.

Gotta agree with the OP...these games are not worth the hype.

I played ZoE back when it came out on PS2, and thought it was okay. A few years later, I bought ZOE2 and never opened it. I ended up selling it for 70-something bucks, figuring I'd never get around to playing it. Luckily, the HD collection ended up coming out and I got a chance to actually sit down and play through the first, as well as the sequel for the first time.

I'd heard about how ZoE2 was so much improved over the first, but I'm just not seeing it. The hub structure, which added no benefit to the first game, is thankfully gone. But the repetitive combat, atrocious and nonsensical writing, and swallow gameplay scenarios, are all still there. The graphics are better, yeah, but that means little when the gameplay doesn't hook you.
 
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