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Macron: Africa's issues are "much more sophisticated than a simple money transfer"

T

TheWasTheJoke

Member
MOD EDIT: Full context of quote.

I don't believe in this reasoning, forgive me for my directness. We among the West have been discussing such Marshall plans for Africa for many years and have in fact given many such plans already. So if it was so simple it would be fixed already. The Marshall plan was a reconstruction plan, a material plan in a region that already had its equilibriums, its borders and its stability. The problems Africa face are completely different and are much different and are "civilizational." What are the problems? Failed states, complex democratic transitions and extremely difficult demographic transitions. Multiple trafficking routes that pose severe issues - drugs, human trafficking, weapons. Violent fundamentalism and islamic terrorism. All of these create major issues in a region that at the same time has some examples of excellent growth that prove the continent is a land of opportunity. So if we want a serious answer to African issues and African problems, we must develop a series of politics that are much more sophisticated that a simple Marshall plan or money transfer, which we agree with the world bank on. The matters of vital infrastructure, education, health - there are roles for financing and it is our responsibility to help on these issues. In terms of security, we must help by linking with regional African stability instruments which France is currently engaging in with the sahel nations. Development, security - and there is also a shared responsibility. Such a Mashall plan as you desire is also a plan that will be administered by African governments and regional blocs. It's by a more rigorous governance, a fight against corruption, a fight for good governance, a successful demographic transition when countries today have 7 or 8 children per woman. As of today, spending billions of dollars outright would stabilize nothing. So the transformation plan that we have to conduct together must be developed according to African interests by and with African leaders. It must be a plan that must take into account the issues I've described, using public private partnerships, and must be conducted on a regional and sometimes even national basis.
Click to expand...

Link: https://www.vox.com/world/2017/7/10/15949392/macron-women-children-7-or-8-g20-stumble-twitter-storm

Incredibly racist sentiment and usage of word 'civilisational' seems to imply Europe is just inherently more developed than Africa rather than due to a mixture of luck and 200 years of abhorrent colonialist theft.

Macron is completely off it, he acts as if he were an 18th city french king with a whiff of nauseating libertarian mixed in. Compound this with his ridiculous statements on how he wishes to run a 'Juperitarian' presidency and how his thoughts are too 'complex' for journalists and yeh you've got a problem. I just fear that people, especially on GAF, will grow to love him just because of their all-encompassing hatred of Trump which means anyone who opposes him must be good.

More concerning links:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40452785
https://venturebeat.com/2017/06/16/president-macron-france-must-think-and-move-like-a-startup/

From article which gives a different view:

But is that what he really said?

The problem with the above clip is, well, that's it's a clip. It's a spliced-together 28 seconds out of 3.5 minutes.

Macron's full response is somewhat obnoxious and ham-handed, but it's actually not as obnoxious and ham-handed as it originally sounded. The full video seems to make him sound much more like an International Monetary Fund or World Bank wonk: in other words, out of touch, philosophical, and a bit like a latter-day colonialist.

But in it, he is not quite the racist he is in clip one. It might seem like hair splitting, but here, then, is clip two:
 
K

kirblar

Member
This is taken heavily out of context-
I don't believe in this reasoning, forgive me for my directness. We among the West have been discussing such Marshall plans for Africa for many years and have in fact given many such plans already. So if it was so simple it would be fixed already. The Marshall plan was a reconstruction plan, a material plan in a region that already had its equilibriums, its borders and its stability. The problems Africa face are completely different and are much different and are "civilizational." What are the problems? Failed states, complex democratic transitions and extremely difficult demographic transitions. Multiple trafficking routes that pose severe issues - drugs, human trafficking, weapons. Violent fundamentalism and islamic terrorism. All of these create major issues in a region that at the same time has some examples of excellent growth that prove the continent is a land of opportunity. So if we want a serious answer to African issues and African problems, we must develop a series of politics that are much more sophisticated that a simple Marshall plan or money transfer, which we agree with the world bank on. The matters of vital infrastructure, education, health - there are roles for financing and it is our responsibility to help on these issues. In terms of security, we must help by linking with regional African stability instruments which France is currently engaging in with the sahel nations. Development, security - and there is also a shared responsibility. Such a Mashall plan as you desire is also a plan that will be administered by African governments and regional blocs. It's by a more rigorous governance, a fight against corruption, a fight for good governance, a successful demographic transition when countries today have 7 or 8 children per woman. As of today, spending billions of dollars outright would stabilize nothing. So the transformation plan that we have to conduct together must be developed according to African interests by and with African leaders. It must be a plan that must take into account the issues I've described, using public private partnerships, and must be conducted on a regional and sometimes even national basis.
Click to expand...
 
A

akira28

Member
its not that surprising, considering. their former history with colonialism in Africa and around the world, violating human rights and treating nonwhites like subhumans.

but it's still an awfully shitty thing to say.
 
G

GoldenEye 007

Member
Wow. Complete disregard for colonialism and raping the land for people and resources.

But at the same time, sometimes the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Like the US allied with the USSR. Doesn't mean Stalin wasn't otherwise a piece of shit.
 
C

CitizenVectron

Member
OP definitely took the quote out of context. He was referencing borders that don't make sense, failed governments, and demographic shifts that are upheaving the social order.
 
C

cpp_is_king

Member
TheWasTheJoke said:
Link: https://www.vox.com/world/2017/7/10/15949392/macron-women-children-7-or-8-g20-stumble-twitter-storm

Incredibly racist sentiment and usage of word 'civilisational' seems to imply Europe is just inherently more developed than Africa rather than due to a mixture of luck and 200 years of abhorrent colonialist theft.

Macron
Click to expand...

Even Without the colonial theft, I don't think Africa would be any better off than it is today. It's entirely luck, there are no natural resources and tons of arid, unfertile land.
 
W

wandering

Banned
cpp_is_king said:
Even Without the colonial theft, I don't think Africa would be any better off than it is today. It's entirely luck, there are no natural resources and tons of arid, unfertile land.
Click to expand...

lmao

Its natural resources are one of the major reasons the scramble for Africa happened
 
B

boiled goose

good with gravy
cpp_is_king said:
Even Without the colonial theft, I don't think Africa would be any better off than it is today. It's entirely luck, there are no natural resources and tons of arid, unfertile land.
Click to expand...

Colonialism is not just theft. It completely destroys cultures. Of course it has an impact.
 
M

MotionBlue

Member
That title is going to do nothing but encourage knee-jerk shitposting. Hes new to politics, and this is a pretty awful gaffe.

I'm only half way through the links, but it sounds like he is arguing for less western-centrism. Previous plans failed because it failed to take into account the unique history of that part of the world.

I might be wrong though, feel free to correct me.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
This is what you call a nontroversy, a way for a guy to be smeared as failing to abide by standards valued by liberals and leftists in order to smear him for being a dirty centrist.
 
A

akira28

Member
Tall4Life said:
Figured, this makes a decent amount of sense.

He wasn't implying that Africa is inherently inferior to white Europeans.
Click to expand...

Still acts like they have no idea why those states failed...or why those transitions are taking place, why those democracies are so weak, or why corruption rules in place of organization. Like they don't have trillions of dollars of interest in the continent already and haven't had untold numbers of military actions there in the last 50 years.
 
B

bomma_man

Member
Wonder why you didn't put the whole quote in the OP 🤔

Not that I completely agree with his statement, but you're not even hiding your agenda.
 
M

Makai

Member
cpp_is_king said:
Even Without the colonial theft, I don't think Africa would be any better off than it is today. It's entirely luck, there are no natural resources and tons of arid, unfertile land.
Click to expand...
There are natural resources, which is cited as one of the reasons many countries remain underdeveloped. Less reason for the state to invest in diverse industries if it can just sell oil or diamonds.
 
30yearsofhurt

30yearsofhurt

Member
cpp_is_king said:
Even Without the colonial theft, I don't think Africa would be any better off than it is today. It's entirely luck, there are no natural resources and tons of arid, unfertile land.
Click to expand...

Well, you've obviously seen some africa on the TV and you're an expert now. End thread eh?
 
K

Kurdel

Banned
cpp_is_king said:
Even Without the colonial theft, I don't think Africa would be any better off than it is today. It's entirely luck, there are no natural resources and tons of arid, unfertile land.
Click to expand...

You know you are talking about an entire fucking continent?

Never have I read the words "there are no natural ressources in Africa" before in my entire adult life, congrats on breaking new grounds.
 
H

Hashmal_Bringer_of_Order

Member
I mean, as long as he doesn't deny the damage done by colonialism he's not at all wrong here. Regardless of why the countries are so corrupt and governmentally dysfunctional, pouring money into these countries won't fix the issues they face.
 
C

cpp_is_king

Member
Makai said:
There are natural resources, which is cited as one of the reasons many countries remain underdeveloped. Less reason for the state to invest in diverse industries if it can just sell oil or diamonds.
Click to expand...

Oil yes, I don't count diamonds since they're effectively controlled by rogue entities. How much do the actual countries benefit from the export of diamonds? I don't actually know, but I wouldn't be surprised if the average persons life is worse as a result of the diamond trade, due to crime
 
A

Arttemis

Member
62.3_01GlblPopGrth.gif


Birth control in many of these countries is shunned, and it's contributing to the worst conditions on the planet.

The decade-lasting male contraception via injection that costs less than the syringe can't come soon enough.
 
J

jtb

Banned
Arttemis said:
62.3_01GlblPopGrth.gif


Birth control in these countries is shunned, and it's contributing to the worst conditions on the planet.

The decade-lasting male contraception via injection that costs less than the syringe can't come soon enough.
Click to expand...

I'm sure the significantly higher infant mortality rate also has something to do with it.
 
K

Kurdel

Banned
cpp_is_king said:
Oil yes, I don't count diamonds since they're effectively controlled by rogue entities. How much do the actual countries benefit from the export of diamonds? I don't actually know, but I wouldn't be surprised if the average persons life is worse as a result of the diamond trade, due to crime
Click to expand...

Please educate yourself before spouting utter nonesense.
 
L

Lenz44

Banned
TheWasTheJoke said:
Link: https://www.vox.com/world/2017/7/10/15949392/macron-women-children-7-or-8-g20-stumble-twitter-storm

Incredibly racist sentiment and usage of word 'civilisational' seems to imply Europe is just inherently more developed than Africa rather than due to a mixture of luck and 200 years of abhorrent colonialist theft.

Macron is completely off it, he acts as if he were an 18th city french king with a whiff of nauseating libertarian mixed in. Compound this with his ridiculous statements on how he wishes to run a 'Juperitarian' presidency and how his thoughts are too 'complex' for journalists and yeh you've got a problem. I just fear that people, especially on GAF, will grow to love him just because of their all-encompassing hatred of Trump which means anyone who opposes him must be good.

More concerning links:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40452785
https://venturebeat.com/2017/06/16/president-macron-france-must-think-and-move-like-a-startup/
Click to expand...

So was your intention to be misleading, or did you just avoid reading the thing you posted in full? You made some pretty bold statements and accusations there based on some clip out of context. So let us know when you read his statements and give us a little report on the real thing, and then we can start a conversation from there.
 
X

Xe4

Banned
cpp_is_king said:
Even Without the colonial theft, I don't think Africa would be any better off than it is today. It's entirely luck, there are no natural resources and tons of arid, unfertile land.
Click to expand...

That's entirely untrue. Africa is a huge continent. Africa has tons of arable land, for instance.
Code: 
[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Arable_land_percent_world.png/400px-Arable_land_percent_world.png[/IMG]

On top of that it is rich in oil and minerals, both of which are lucrative resources.

Different parts of Africa have been incredibly rich in the past, and could be again in the future. It just so happens they kind of got fucked from the 1700's onward by forces that were at least somewhat out of their control.
 
K

kirblar

Member
wutwutwut said:
did you get that from /r/neoliberal? heh
Click to expand...
Yeah, knew where to look because it showed up on twitter as a text-image from there earlier today, no one on my feed fell for the bait, only saw the counter-responses, so went there for the copy/paste when I saw it come up here.
 
W

WedgeX

Banned
Come on, OP. Vox, the very link you threw out there, even calls out the very video you're citing as being intentionally misleading:

Vox said:
A clip of the response, spliced to make it look like it was almost one run-on sentence, has triggered a bit of a Twitter storm.

The clip, as it's being shared says, ”The challenge of Africa, it is totally different, it is much deeper, it is civilizational, today. What are the problems in Africa? Failed states, the complex democratic transitions, demographic transitions, which is one of the main challenges facing Africa."

And then it soon fades nearly seamlessly into the words ”a successful demographic transition when countries still have seven to eight children per woman — you can decide to spend billions of euros, you will not stabilize anything."

What the hell does that mean? Much of the internet has decided it means Macron is blaming almost all African problems on high birthrates, and on women — in other words, that African women are the problem of Africa. That sounds very, very bad.

But is that what he really said?

The problem with the above clip is, well, that's it's a clip. It's a spliced-together 28 seconds out of 3.5 minutes.

Macron's full response is somewhat obnoxious and ham-handed, but it's actually not as obnoxious and ham-handed as it originally sounded. The full video seems to make him sound much more like an International Monetary Fund or World Bank wonk: in other words, out of touch, philosophical, and a bit like a latter-day colonialist.
Click to expand...
 
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