Some of you are too cynical. You think he never saw his kids again? Of course he did. Sally was his favorite but he still loved his sons. I guarantee you he went to Birdie's funeral and sees his kids every once in awhile. Rizzo and Peggy might have been cheesy and a little too convenient but they have been building to it for quite awhile. I'm glad Peggy is happy even if i wish she joined Joan's company. Don uses his experience to create the Coke ad but it doesn't have to be cynical. He learned something and it changed him. At least that's how I see it.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Mad Men - Season 7, Part 2 - The End of an Era - AMC Sundays
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
Dominican Power
Member
Is it not possible that Don found some peace and also came back to deliver this great ad? He still has children that he needs to look after.
An achievement to Don is not necessarily an achievement to the universe he inhabits. I don't think the show has ever really been endorsing Don's tendencies.
Discotheque
Banned
isn't that in itself an ending though? it can mean a lot too. reminds me of inside llewyn davis where the whole movie was a loop, where he was destined to have small 'wins' but never ultimately succeed.
peggy/stan was cheesy, and didn't feel right for her character imo. I felt like they just wanted to give her a promising relationship before they said goodbye, since she's always been so poor on this front.
the last 5 minutes though...good lord that made the ending for me. shows that Don will never be fully emotionally resolved. right when you think he might have things figured out you realize it's just another great work idea. like yeah he got over his really down phase but another is sure to come in a few years.
and nah i don't think he'll bear the full responsibility of fatherhood. just some weekends. sally's last scene pretty much set her up for taking care of her siblings in the future.
As said earlier Peggy is the only one to tell him to come home. When he breaks down and tells her the truth one of the things he mentions is stealing another man's name and making nothing of it. Then he takes this low and experience and profits from it with a great ad, that's Don. Stan says "It's not all about the work" or something to that effect but that's all Don has. The ad business is the only place he feels wanted.
Angry Fork
Member
That's fair, it just felt like it did sometimes. Most of the 'leftist' characters on the show were portrayed as children, naive, stupid, etc.
Or maybe it just preferred to portray things from the viewpoint of admen rather than something different, I don't know.
The Driver
Member
It's possibly but the alternative is also just as possible.
He found (temporary, just as he has multiple times in the past) peace and delivered a great ad only to end up miserable again.
We can be optimistic or cynical as much as we want but this is the path the show has shown time and time again so it's the most likely imo.
MidnightCowboy
Member
It's so Don to ditch for weeks on end, to the ire of everyone he knows, and then come back with one of the most legendary ads of all time.
The point was to get Peggy to realize that work alone won't make her happy. It's not about "needing a man".
Why an earth would you view the show as endorsing that coke ad? It's a purposefully bittersweet and cynical ending, because the show is well aware that the coke ad is bullshit and "enlightenment" is just another tool to sell products. As far as ending back where he started, that's Mad Men. Don has spent the last 3 seasons making the same mistakes. And having his spiritual "epiphany" turn out to be a once in a lifetime advertising idea is consistent with Don's character. He's never happier than when he's creating ads.
Yep. The dude's whole history over this show is finding peace, then throwing it away, then finding it again, throwing it away, endlessly repeating the cycle, always using those personal experiences to create great ads too.
This ending is just the continuation of that cycle, and it is fairly cynical but also makes sense with what the show has shown us over 7 seasons.
Dominican Power
Member
Who is Joan's partner?
MidnightCowboy
Member
It's just her. Holloway is her maiden name, Harris is her married name. I think it's badass.
The Atticus
Member
I think there was a rather successful woman who was Copy Chief (?) at McCann irl in the 70s or 80s.
Whether she was married to a humoured and bearded grufallo of a man, however, I do not know.
Whether she was married to a humoured and bearded grufallo of a man, however, I do not know.
The Driver
Member
Oh yeah definitely, I'm actually on board with that it's a fitting ending for the show cuz it's true to the characters but I'm also saying this stuff to remind people who are a little high off the ground saying Don found his peace or some shit. Nah, at most he found another decent idea from his troubles. He's still almost assuredly at war with who he is and will run off again in a couple of years from whatever ad agency he's at.
I guess I was just excited by these probably fake-out happy endings for everyone else that maybe just maybe Don would realize getting out of the ad business would be his best move instead of doubling or tripling down. I think I just really wanted to see Don the happy and fulfilled driver instead of Don the temporary happy adman at the end lol.
Nobody. Holloway was her maiden name and Harris is her married name.
That receptionist was her child's old (current?) nanny.
EDIT - Damn you MidnightCowboy.
Discotheque
Banned
bless up to Weiner for this ending, it caught me completely off guard (in a good way when I had time to collect my thoughts)
i'm looking forward to reading some articles about it.
i'm looking forward to reading some articles about it.
McCann @McCann_WW · 4h 4 hours ago
Thanks, Don. About time you came up with a good idea. https://goo.gl/mRgtvg #MadMen #MadMenFinale
Thanks, Don. About time you came up with a good idea. https://goo.gl/mRgtvg #MadMen #MadMenFinale
ClivePwned
Member
Weiner likes to foreshadow. Suddenly having Joan and Richard snort cocaine. and then at the end, Boom! "I'd like to buy Joan some Coke."
Genius.
Genius.
Angry Fork
Member
Maybe, I've thought this could be the case but it doesn't feel convincing, like that feels too simple an explanation. The way non-capitalist characters and concepts on the show have been portrayed was normally derisive.
Or maybe I'm just looking for negatives, don't know. Like I said before the show could have been showing things from an adman perspective, but it could also be the real beliefs of the showrunners. If it's the former then the coke ad is supposed to be bullshit like you said, if it's the latter then we're meant to applaud at Don becoming an awesome con man again.
edit - It makes sense if the ending is just supposed to be about Don making the same mistakes. But I'm sure it's easy to understand why that would be disappointing, as some of us were hoping Don would become something new rather than back to square one.
MidnightCowboy
Member
Shout out to Harry's small appearance in this episode. Rich Sommer played him perfectly all series long.
The Driver
Member
Tbh I'm salty he didn't get shat on the hardest in the end. Can't believe Weiner did Betty like that but they can let scumbag Harry get off without one final put down at least.
Fuckin Weiner.
ClivePwned
Member
Harry's crime is being Harry Crane. That is also his punishment.
Mr. Saturn
Member
When you say Weiner believes people don't change, I decided to google that and I did find an interview where he said that which is weird because I remember there was an interview he did back in 2013 where someone asked him if people could change and here's what he said
LA Times said:
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-mad-men-weiner-20130622-story.html#page=1
But we also have this quote from Weiner
Matthew Weiner said:
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/news/1933361/matthew_weiner_interview_people_dont_change/
There are two explanations for this, the first is that Weiner's views evolved which is totally possible. The second explanation is that Weiner does think people can change but when he says people don't change in his recent interview he might just might mean in the context that the issues Don and the other characters face are issues a lot of people still face today. That's why he specifically says the issues of your everyday life don't change.
For what its worth The Driver I did enjoy your thoughts on the finale.
Haha trust me, Matthew Weiner doesn't think Don is some awesome con man. This show has critiqued capitalism and advertising implicitly since day one.
With regards to the way that countercultural characters on Mad Men have been portrayed, the truth is they look foolish because the revolution didn't come. Peggy's boyfriend Abe was so sure that the people were about to rise up. Instead, counterculture was co-opted by capitalists for Coke ads. The great irony of the sixties, and the show, is that after all that tumult Nixon was in the White House. I think Mad Men has a very realistic view of the efforts of anti-capitalists in the sixties, and that reflects in how they're portrayed,
And it's totally valid to be frustrated by Don ending up in the same place again. I know a lot of people who quit the show because they got tired of his eternal cycle of shit.
They seem good at marketing themselves too.
Angry Fork
Member
That's a really fair assessment, I agree.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
it's morbid, but I feel like they gave Betty a scenario to end on that let her best qualities shine through
The show is from the perspective not just of the ad men characters, but the pre-boomer age they came from. It's natural that only the most ridiculous aspects of hippie culture came to the vantage point we see in the show. But it's also portrayed as a dying age of decadence and fault, on the verge of being torn down by the rise of the baby boomer generation. The ad industry adapted to change, with only the younger cadre of Sterling Cooper (as well as Don, the chameleon that he is) were equipped to make that change happen and follow it through. All that culminates in the Coke ad, which is completely and blatantly targeted at the exploding -- and newly cynical -- boomer generation.
Keep in mind, though, that even that generation quickly betrayed the counterculture they helped create. They expanded the suburban lifestyle to degrees Don's generation could only dream of, and eventually they embraced Thatcherism and Reaganomics and began dismantling the social safety net that served them so well. To some extent, the left of the 60s deserves some ridicule for their failure to follow through, never mind the degree to which they were duped into thinking the totalitarian communist regimes were actually building a utopia.
It's a cynical ending, to be sure. But I think it's actually a pretty earned cynicism. Honestly, the 70s are where the dreams of the hippies went to die, and then the 80s stomped on the corpse.
Net_Wrecker
Member
I think I'm gonna fall on the side of realization AND inspiration because the emotional gut punches Don was taking before being inspired for that ad just seem like too much to simply slide back into his old ways. I see him breaking down in the meeting yet smiling at the end as a sort of acceptance of who he is and what he does, simultaneously seeing himself in that guy's story, but also seeing himself in his work and taking pride in his brilliance. It might be easier to view this as another one of Don's Moments because we've seen this happen before on a smaller scale, but I can't believe the time spent putting him through the wringer these last few episodes would have him come out the other side as the exact same person.
Or maybe that was simply Dick Whitman's death throes as Don Draper chokes the life out of him once and for all.
Either way, Don went home to be an ad man once again because the action IS the juice. Some things don't change, but I'd like to think he brought some of the finale's experience home with him too.
R.I.P. Mad Men. R.I.P. AMC. R.I.P mysterious guy who jumped off the building in the intro
Or maybe that was simply Dick Whitman's death throes as Don Draper chokes the life out of him once and for all.
Either way, Don went home to be an ad man once again because the action IS the juice. Some things don't change, but I'd like to think he brought some of the finale's experience home with him too.
R.I.P. Mad Men. R.I.P. AMC. R.I.P mysterious guy who jumped off the building in the intro
Twin Tails
Member
Pete gets happy end, worse finale ever.
Angry Fork
Member
Yea I agree with this as well, I'm seeing the finale/show differently now. Although it's a bitter end I guess it's preferable to something corny like Don becoming a genuine hippie, which I don't think would have fit his character. And leftists like myself just have to deal with it lol.
Pete becomes Don's most loyal ally by the end.
This perfectly sums up the cynicism behind that coke ad, and behind that whole retreat. The forces of change that rocked the lives of the elite for a decade were tamed and put to the service of the same old machinery. And the "enlightenment" that middle-class Americans pursued in the 70's-90's was cheap and ill-earned.
MidnightCowboy
Member
You know what sucks? There will never be another show like Mad Men. Ever. Certain great shows end, but you can take solace in knowing that there'll be another show along the way that will scratch that same itch. Crime, mystery, action, what have you. Nothing will scratch that Mad Men itch.
Excellent insight. Despite my wish to subvert cynicism I can't help but agree to this. Wish I could say it is a happy ending but that was never what Mad Men was about.
Mad Men was the most cerebral show I have ever watched.
Few shows are like that. Most have to rely on emotion than intellect in at least some capacity to facilitate their content making impact.
umop_3pisdn
Member
I am very happy with this ending.
I think this almost perfectly expresses the problem with the coke ad at the end:
"Like their antimodern precursors, contemporary seekers of authenticity of lack any but the vaguest ethical or religious commitments. Their obsession with "meaning" masks its absence from any frame of reference outside the self. Their obsession with will or choice underscores an inability to will or choose. What begins as discontent with a vapid modern culture ends as another quest for self-fulfillment - the dominant ideal of our sleeker, therapeutic modern culture. The effort to re-create a coherent sense of selfhood seems fated to frustration. Every failure inaugurates a new psychic quest, until the seeker is embroiled in an interminable series of self-explorations. This continually frustrated search is the logical outcome of antimodernism in America: the vision of a self in endless development is perfectly attuned to an economy based on pointless growth and ceaseless destruction." T J Jackson Lears, No Place of Grace (1981).
This is arguably Don's problem in a nutshell, in a weird way it makes perfect sense he'd take to the encounter groups, and it makes perfect sense that it would all fail. It doesn't necessarily mean that Don is back where he started, you can fill a bucket a drip at a time. I don't think Don will figure it out, he probably will be "embroiled in an interminable series of self-explorations", but that's okay, too.
I think this almost perfectly expresses the problem with the coke ad at the end:
"Like their antimodern precursors, contemporary seekers of authenticity of lack any but the vaguest ethical or religious commitments. Their obsession with "meaning" masks its absence from any frame of reference outside the self. Their obsession with will or choice underscores an inability to will or choose. What begins as discontent with a vapid modern culture ends as another quest for self-fulfillment - the dominant ideal of our sleeker, therapeutic modern culture. The effort to re-create a coherent sense of selfhood seems fated to frustration. Every failure inaugurates a new psychic quest, until the seeker is embroiled in an interminable series of self-explorations. This continually frustrated search is the logical outcome of antimodernism in America: the vision of a self in endless development is perfectly attuned to an economy based on pointless growth and ceaseless destruction." T J Jackson Lears, No Place of Grace (1981).
This is arguably Don's problem in a nutshell, in a weird way it makes perfect sense he'd take to the encounter groups, and it makes perfect sense that it would all fail. It doesn't necessarily mean that Don is back where he started, you can fill a bucket a drip at a time. I don't think Don will figure it out, he probably will be "embroiled in an interminable series of self-explorations", but that's okay, too.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Bingo. Don't know why people feel like it's either one or the other. He finally put "Dick Whitman" to rest, and embraced himself as Don Draper.
Maximus.
Member
I think the finale fit the way the show progressed and how it handled its story and characters. With that said, I found the show to turn into this boring and mediocre thing. It was great that they showed where each character was basically going, but I don't know I guess I lost interest in the show a couple seasons ago. I think it was a fitting end for Don and I did not have expectations for anything dramatic to happen to him. The show started off as this great time piece and window into the past, but as time progressed I just stopped caring about so many of these characters and the show in general. Happy to see to come to a proper end though.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Don hands cash to the lady showing them the commune, turns to Stephanie and says "she took my money, that's a good sign."
MindCollizion
Member
It was beautiful.
The Driver
Member
Hmmm, I would think there is room for both. I think he's referring to character changes in the first answer and mostly human nature of being driven and stressed by the same things in the second. We clearly can relate to Don and his problems so people don't really change, but Don also doesn't really change personally either so he falls in line with both to me.
Thanks btw, nice of you to dig up the quotes, was feeling hazy when I brought it up lol.
But do we really know that though? 10 minutes prior to the smile and the coke ad he's literally unable to stand from being so emotionally exhausted from his perceived lack of accomplishment and people who care about him.
Some can assume that because of the commune seminar thing he has worked out some demons and is now "fulfilled", but we really didn't see anything much or deep cutting. It's not a very strong case for anything bigger than another new bandaid on the gash in dire need of stitches.
What gut punches tho? He learns Betty has cancer? She doesn't want him heavily in the children's lives?
He's faced worse imo and it didn't change him. Cancer was the only real bombshell, no way he didn't realize that being absent from his children is both a wanted and a self imposed curse by himself by now. The "you're a sucky dad, please stay away" admittance was just elevated to breakdown level because he's realizing the mother of his children that he treated terribly, doesn't want him around even when she's dying because it's too weird for the kids. Other than the cancer thing, it's mostly preaching to the choir probably for Don.
Idk beside I feel like the lack of a true attempt to get the hell out of the commune and see his family again given the news/ scathing remarks from Betty along with the disinterest from Weiner in showing Don reuniting with them could imply he still doesn't give a shit really and just openly resigned to his ways now that even in such extreme circumstances he's essentially "absolved" of true resposiblity and change rather than weakly fighting for them out of his "pride" as Betty says.
It could also just be that Weiner purposefully was being ambiguous and also really liked the direct image connection from Don smiling to the Coke ad too much to let it be broken by showing Don attempting to better himself through becoming closer to his family.
The Driver
Member
Yeah, I really didn't like the commune bit. When Stephanie said "you're going with me", I was like cool, a little side stop for some obvious character development before Don's final life choices and the beginning of real growth.
Nope, commune became the whole episode and we never see how Don truly absorbs this outside of hugging the guy, the smile, and the ad implying his return to old cycle.