Agreed. Unless we have an outed PR, speculating on why someone was targeted at night is always hard, you never know how the mafia thinks. They want their kill to not be linkable to them, but they also know that we will think that, so maybe they do the opposite. You never know. At least you can look at everybody his reasoning during day 1 discussions and base judgement on something you can actually read.
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[Mafia] NX Launch Night |OT| Back of the Line!
- Thread starter CzarTim
- Start date
Agreed. Unless we have an outed PR, speculating on why someone was targeted at night is always hard, you never know how the mafia thinks. They want their kill to not be linkable to them, but they also know that we will think that, so maybe they do the opposite. You never know. At least you can look at everybody his reasoning during day 1 discussions and base judgement on something you can actually read.
So, to summarize:
1. Kark's justifications for his play feel off to you because he replaced what he said was unnecessary aggression with a black-and-white decision and that feels like replacing one problem with another? (I had some trouble parsing that first paragraph; is that what you meant?)
2. You didn't like his read list because they felt like appreciations of the other players' attitudes towards him rather than solid reads.
3. You don't like that he picked on Blarg for some reason.
Regarding 1, I think we're past the point were anyone believes Kark's play is solely about a lynch vs. no lynch debate, even though he continues to mention that point.
About 2, I don't see how the way he phrased his reads is indicative of anything in particular; if anything I'm more worried about your "forgotten players" lists we touched on above.
And finally about 3, I actually agree (that it was weird, not with your random defense "argument"). I don't know if it's because I'm traumatized about the way Blarg acted in the Cthulhu game, but I've found his posts to be surprisingly understandable this time around, so it struck me as odd to see Kark asking him to tone it down.
I like really wanna know the answer to this.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I reread that batsnacks post above and I agree with these points a lot.
I'm still voting Kark.
I'm still voting Kark.
Blargonaut
Banned
OH. HELL. NO.
DARRYL, HOLD MY FUCK.
FIRST, YOU TAKE KARKADOR'S BAIT, PERSONALLY ENABLING HIM TO BE A WHOLE-DAY-AFFAIR CONVERSATION PIECE; THAT'S FINE, OKAY, I GET IT, IT WAS A MOVE THAT DEFINITELY DESERVED DISCUSSION-
BUT THEN, YOU PULL OUT ON THE LAST DAY? BY TELLING ME THAT YOUR REASON IS BECAUSE YOU'VE SOMEHOW CONFIRMED THAT KARKADOR HAS A POWER ROLE? YOU BETTER EXPLAIN TO MY LAYMAN'S ASS HOW EXACTLY YOU CAME TO THAT CONVENIENT CONCLUSION THROUGH KARKADOR'S POSTS, STEP-BY-FUNNING-STEP, MR. FLIP-FLOPPER.
TELLING ME YOU'VE PUBLICLY OUTED AND CONFIRMED A POWER ROLE ON DAY 1? IS THAT IT?
- YOU TAKE KARKADOR'S BAIT.
- YOU PUBLICLY GLORIFY KARKADOR BY CONSTANTLY STRESSING HOW MUCH OF AN EXPERIENCED PLAYER HE IS.
- YOU BACK OUT BECAUSE YOU SOMEHOW CONFIRMED MR. "VETERAN" KARKADOR HAS A POWER ROLE.
AND NOW, YOU HELP THE REST SHIFT THE BLAME ONTO BATSNACKS?
HELP ME UNDERSTAND SOMEBODY PLEASE, WHY DON'T WE LYNCH YOU?
WHY NOT?
WHY? NOT?
WHY ARE THE REST OF YOU LETTING HIM SLIDE?
LAUNCHPADMCQ, YOU, YOU BETTER KEEP YOUR VOTE ON KARKADOR, LAUNCHPADMCQ, IF YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOOD FOR YOU. WE'RE ON THE FURY ROAD NOW.
I SWEAR, IF MR. "POWER ROLE" KARKADOR DIES TONIGHT AND YOU SURVIVE TODAY, I KNOW FULL DAMN WELL WHAT I'M GOING TO BE EATING FOR DINNER
FAKE EDIT:
I TOOK TIME TYPING THIS AND IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'VE DECIDED TO VOTE FOR KARKADOR AGAIN.
GOOD. YOU BETTER.
AND KEEP IT THERE.
OH. HELL. NO.
DARRYL, HOLD MY FUCK.
FIRST, YOU TAKE KARKADOR'S BAIT, PERSONALLY ENABLING HIM TO BE A WHOLE-DAY-AFFAIR CONVERSATION PIECE; THAT'S FINE, OKAY, I GET IT, IT WAS A MOVE THAT DEFINITELY DESERVED DISCUSSION-
BUT THEN, YOU PULL OUT ON THE LAST DAY? BY TELLING ME THAT YOUR REASON IS BECAUSE YOU'VE SOMEHOW CONFIRMED THAT KARKADOR HAS A POWER ROLE? YOU BETTER EXPLAIN TO MY LAYMAN'S ASS HOW EXACTLY YOU CAME TO THAT CONVENIENT CONCLUSION THROUGH KARKADOR'S POSTS, STEP-BY-FUNNING-STEP, MR. FLIP-FLOPPER.
TELLING ME YOU'VE PUBLICLY OUTED AND CONFIRMED A POWER ROLE ON DAY 1? IS THAT IT?
CONGRATULATIONS, LAUNCHPADMCQ, YOU DID IT. YOU GOT IN THE ROBOT. HAVE SOME CONFETTI. *glitter sprinkle*
- YOU TAKE KARKADOR'S BAIT.
- YOU PUBLICLY GLORIFY KARKADOR BY CONSTANTLY STRESSING HOW MUCH OF AN EXPERIENCED PLAYER HE IS.
- YOU BACK OUT BECAUSE YOU SOMEHOW CONFIRMED MR. "VETERAN" KARKADOR HAS A POWER ROLE.
AND NOW, YOU HELP THE REST SHIFT THE BLAME ONTO BATSNACKS?
HELP ME UNDERSTAND SOMEBODY PLEASE, WHY DON'T WE LYNCH YOU?
WHY NOT?
WHY? NOT?
WHY ARE THE REST OF YOU LETTING HIM SLIDE?
LAUNCHPADMCQ, YOU, YOU BETTER KEEP YOUR VOTE ON KARKADOR, LAUNCHPADMCQ, IF YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOOD FOR YOU. WE'RE ON THE FURY ROAD NOW.
I SWEAR, IF MR. "POWER ROLE" KARKADOR DIES TONIGHT AND YOU SURVIVE TODAY, I KNOW FULL DAMN WELL WHAT I'M GOING TO BE EATING FOR DINNER
FAKE EDIT:
I TOOK TIME TYPING THIS AND IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'VE DECIDED TO VOTE FOR KARKADOR AGAIN.
GOOD. YOU BETTER.
AND KEEP IT THERE.
Why don't I ever get to hold your fuck?
Blargonaut
Banned
You're already holding my blue pill
Ah true. Thank you for that. If you need it for anything, let me know.
I interpreted that "PR claim" more as a joke than anything, or at least that was what I hoped it was. Roy called him out on it too and he kind of dodged the question.
To which Launch answered with a vague:
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Amazing. I'm glad he didn't see the post above his.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Are you implying something?
Yeah, I don't know what he meant by a gesture either. Kark then seemingly unvoted him as a "gesture" as well it seems.
You've finally posted something that makes sense. Yes, this is all correct.
One vote =/= a lynch. You said it yourself; it was a symbolic gesture, and I did it early enough to have time to work through the reasoning why. I'm not suicidal.
I disagree that this is the current environment. I don't dissuade anyone from pursuing reads. I gave my own reads, too, on every player in the game. I haven't shot down anyone's reads of the situation at all. Their guesses are as good as mine.
I've given a fair amount of observations about a certain player (or players; that means you) that are playing differently from other players. Other players haven't really made huge moves, but I don't know what to assign them to, and I don't really care to play that way.
Lots of other players haven't posted enough to say one way or another.
Is this bad?
I don't care. Blarg is not a sacred cow, and this riddle-speak doesn't help anyone.
Not really. I noticed the interaction earlier and didn't want to say anything since I thought, as I said, that the PR thing was unimportant. Blarg brought it up and I thought there was no harm in pointing it out now though.
What's the world coming to
I find this interesting. Blarg isn't even really talking in riddles in this game. Some is non-sensical, yes, but his opinion is quite out there for all to read.
If you can help me understand what stuff like "feeling good" means, please tell. Otherwise, it's noise.
Yep. Quoting myself from near the top of the page.
I find it very curious that Kark's decided to double down on that position just now.
Oh, you meant Batsnacks's mention that Blarg "feels good"? Yeah, I said as much too. I take back my previous post if so.
Occam's razor, he feels good about a vote. He doesn't like you or Launch, it seems. The snowman thing was mostly noise, I agree, but his stance is easy to see. He agrees that you are up to some shit but he also thinks Launch could be in on it too. He actually feels that Launch is more likely to be the scum so he would rather go that route first.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Just so we can stop revisiting it, me thinking Kark has a PR and unvoting are unrelated. I make posts sporadically, if it wasn't obvious, and I don't always consider how the structure comes off.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Also, I very clearly stated that the gesture was to buy some goodwill with Kark so that he can stop slandering me.
Odd, but I'll bite, why did you unvote then? I guess I don't understand what you mean when you say it was a gesture.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
We really, really, really should not have to wade through this like we're interpreting the intentions of an alien. This is a game that needs communication. You yourself got chased off last night because of it.
Omg neogaf not letting me post, am I posting too much?
@FireBlend the fact the Karks reads don't seem indicative of anything in particular is the problem I have with them, if that makes sense.
And my forgotten players list is good! I promise. Every townie should be keeping track of the people they don't remember posts from. Like Im probably only ever posting that list as town because if I'm mafia I probably have scumbuddies on that list.
Also that post by Blarg is aces. I knew I liked him.
And @Launch why are you ever unvoting someone because they're slandering you? If you are being logical and reasonable against someone shouldn't your resolve be strengthened by them slandering you?
@FireBlend the fact the Karks reads don't seem indicative of anything in particular is the problem I have with them, if that makes sense.
And my forgotten players list is good! I promise. Every townie should be keeping track of the people they don't remember posts from. Like Im probably only ever posting that list as town because if I'm mafia I probably have scumbuddies on that list.
Also that post by Blarg is aces. I knew I liked him.
And @Launch why are you ever unvoting someone because they're slandering you? If you are being logical and reasonable against someone shouldn't your resolve be strengthened by them slandering you?
I'm not going to policy lynch someone based on how they play so idk how to fix this issue and past that his communication level is currently fine by my standards.
I also didn't get chased off by bad communication. I was frustrated at something unrelated and I saw that some people were getting their fluff posts out of the way so I announced my departure so no one would expect me to chime in for awhile.
I'm not suggesting a policy lynch, I'm suggesting clarity
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Evidently, Kark was not responding well to this and I've calmed down considerably since the first few hours, so removing my vote for the moment does not affect the eventual outcome. Notice that he unvoted me and back off; I'm more than alright with this sequence of events.
Like I've said though, the negative response to scrutiny is still a huge deal to me, but I'd rather proceed civilly now.
I know you aren't but Blarg will play the way he likes. I don't think a call for clarity is going to get it for us and he's better here than not as far as I am aware at the moment.
If no one is going to call out Blarg on it, then why even call anyone out on anything. Seriously, this is sort of making me want to rage quit. WTF is the point of any of this with a rambling player.
Not literally I meant who is your preference? I don't want to no-lynch today and if there were 8 people who did they would have spoken up by now.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Finally caught up.
I think Karkador's play is a bit disingenuous. Offering himself up as sacrifice but then saying later "those that jumped on me are suspicious" and "I wasn't going to sacrifice myself anyway" seems like he wants his cake and to eat it too. Is it too risky and unexpected for scum to do? Hard to say. His caveat that "if I flip town then look at who voted" would make everyone reluctant to pile on. That said, I understand his reasoning behind it but I'm starting to get tired of always debating the merits of a no-lynch on the first day.
Launchpad "taking the bait" doesn't seem very suspicious. Day 1, scum would jump at any opportunity to lynch anyone that isn't them, but the same applies to everyone else. No one wants to die Day 1. Launchpad put himself out there, which is a bit risky for scum to do. I think if he didn't step up to vote Karkador, someone else would.
batsnacks' behaviour seems more suspicious to me. He latched onto Karkador, maybe hoping to start a quick bandwagon, and when it stalled he had to find some other reason to vote. However, his explanation isn't unreasonable: Karkador is dominating discussion and will continue to do so until the end of the day.
I'm not sure who my vote will land on at the end of the day, but it will probably be batsnacks or Karkador.
I think Karkador's play is a bit disingenuous. Offering himself up as sacrifice but then saying later "those that jumped on me are suspicious" and "I wasn't going to sacrifice myself anyway" seems like he wants his cake and to eat it too. Is it too risky and unexpected for scum to do? Hard to say. His caveat that "if I flip town then look at who voted" would make everyone reluctant to pile on. That said, I understand his reasoning behind it but I'm starting to get tired of always debating the merits of a no-lynch on the first day.
Launchpad "taking the bait" doesn't seem very suspicious. Day 1, scum would jump at any opportunity to lynch anyone that isn't them, but the same applies to everyone else. No one wants to die Day 1. Launchpad put himself out there, which is a bit risky for scum to do. I think if he didn't step up to vote Karkador, someone else would.
batsnacks' behaviour seems more suspicious to me. He latched onto Karkador, maybe hoping to start a quick bandwagon, and when it stalled he had to find some other reason to vote. However, his explanation isn't unreasonable: Karkador is dominating discussion and will continue to do so until the end of the day.
I'm not sure who my vote will land on at the end of the day, but it will probably be batsnacks or Karkador.
I'm sorry but it seems like the general consensus is that people have been understanding Blarg perfectly fine so you are mostly odd man out there. I've called him on it once or twice on very specific posts but at the end of the day, he's easy to read in this game so far. In terns of the bolded, none of the pity party shit or I'll be happy to vote for you faster, I've learned enough to know not to trust that at all.
Who you gonna lynch today Kark?
Let's say you were the man in charge and had the pick of the litter today. Who do you remove?
Blargonaut
Banned
Tactful side-stepping of provocative queries, to-the-point response does not address the provided inflammatory critique and is laced with standard-issue claims of confusion and desire for clarity; once again, notes that he is just one of many and defers to the majority in a subtle plea for help in advancing his current goal. Uses food puns.
Deflective, not dismissive, with a concluding promise reiterating that there's more to come, again stated to be personally provided at a later date of course, so as to ensure self-preservation through hype.
You play it very safe.
It's not pity party shit.
Look, man. I'm trying to do something very specific here, and it requires discussion, to say the least.
If Blarg is getting a pass for bullshit while every one of my words is getting minced (all the while, blaming me for "making it about me"), that's very frustrating. I don't care if you take pity on me. I don't need that at all. What I need is for people to dislodge themselves from the routine that has settled in.
I already said, the ideal is for no one to be removed, preferrably with a tied vote on some players, resulting in a no lynch. I can't think of a single person I'd want to remove, but that's my Day 1.
Now, if you want to ask this question another way - who would I want players voted on - me, Launch, and batsnacks, resulting in a tie of some sort.
Blargonaut
Banned
If it is, you haven't taken it yet
Your read is good, I think cabbeh is purposely trying to play as safe as possible so that he can stick around as long as possible.
Blargonaut
Banned
We used to be best buddies, and now we're not
I wish you would tell me whhhyyyyy
Do you wanna build a snowman?
It doesn't have to be a snowmaaaaan
I made you an offer already
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