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MAG |OT| 256-Player Battles, Lots of Teamwork, Not So Much Auto-Aim
- Thread starter J-Rzez
- Start date
Liberty4all
Banned
Violater said:
This picture has already been posted but it really does say it all:
Generally the people arguing that there is a "way" to regularly beat SVER ... they are on SVER. I have yet to see anyone that's played on Raven or Valor for a decent length of time agree with this assessment. Sure we might get the occasional fluke, but in general the SVER map is so lopsided a to make the conclusion of assaults on SVER maps a foregone conclusion.
It's annoying hearing SVER people say "oh you need to do this, you guys always make the same mistakes", or "Oh we have much better organization, we work together more blahblahblah"
Please, come on, IT'S THE MAPS.
Raven has just as much coordination as SVER and I'm sure Valor does too. Our leadership comms are filled with chatter and squad coordination is at an all time high.
The bottom line is that there is nothing special about SVER aside from the fact that their maps are far easier to defend than the other two factions. No one faction has "better" players, although I daresay SVER have access to better equipment at this point (thanks to all those match victory bonus's).
*shrug*
I'm waiting for the inevitable patch that will put SVER on par with the other PMC's, be it map rebalance, or weapon nerfs. OH the wailing and knashing of teeth. It will be GLORIOUS.
(not trying to point you out Violator as I think your advice is offered in a sense of trying to help the other factions ... with that said I do think that alot of SVER just don't "get it" ... I would love to see the developers open up the maps to random PMC placement on offence or defence)
popsicle_sundays
Member
Played my first 256 battle earlier, it was pretty intense. I love how I get so many points for healing / reviving and doing mission objectives compared to only 5 for killing somebody.
Mr. Luchador
Member
As a SVER player, and I mentioned this earlier, our maps are boring to defend. If they lowered the bunker HPs that'd make it a bit more interesting!
@ Bamelin: I still don't understand why Zipper doesn't allow every faction to defend and attack each map. In war, borders change and locations that were once vile as shit to fight against can become your stronghold the next. If each PMC got to take turns attacking and defending each of the maps, it would make this all less of an issue. Then all they'd have to do is balance the damn weapons.
I was with Raven for the entire Open Beta. I'd say the IGN tourney too, but that doesn't matter, there were no domination matches. I played alongside of you, and I think I was the one who invited you to Raven GAF iirc.Bamelin said:
The maps play a small part to the issue at hand. It's definitely not a weapon issue. Raven and Valor have an advantage there. There's a mindset difference going on with the PMCs. Raven players seem to prefer the lonewolf method. Whether it is sniping or just simply attacking alone, they don't cooperate as easily as the other two PMCs. I'm sure many other players have realized this by now. A lot of players over there will attempt to take on SVER/Valor solo. Pay attention to this on the SVER SABO map. A lot of the playerbase approaches the match as if there's an impenetrable defense and attempts to go solo with indirect routes. I noticed this when I played Raven and I don't see this happening with SVER at all.
Even on those matches where Raven (or even Valor) gets pushed back closer to their spawn, they'll just decide to start sniping instead of working together. Some will even outright leave the match. Yet it's rare to see anyone even attempt to go down the middle train tracks and go around SVER. Most of the time A has poor defense with all of the players attempting to take you guys on as you come up the side. If they bothered to take a different route, they'd likely see more success. But nope, they quickly devolve into worrying about their k/d rather than the objective.
It's already come and gone. Did you forget the weapon nerfs they received in the betas? Try comparing the weapons for once (particular the LMGs).Bamelin said:
BattleMonkey
Member
Vinci said:
That would be ideal, but they seem to have wanted to make the defenders side to be in theme with the faction with unique look of objectives and buildings. Though really it still seems dumb, the assets for the factions should be interchangeable, they can be deformed by damage when they die, would imagine they could simply swap out the art assets for the other factions.
Well it will have to be map balance, as the weapons are the same across the PMC's
Honestly I don't see how they could possibly fix the maps at this point.
They could nerf the bunkers across the board on defense.
And really people running dead on into the bunkers will get you killes no matter which map you are attacking.
I have generally found the the maps are setup in such a way that it is easier to get in on one side vs the other. Teams need to learn to exploit that. I have held the bridge on Acquisition only to have the other platoon totally frack it up and loose both vehicles.
Honestly I don't see how they could possibly fix the maps at this point.
They could nerf the bunkers across the board on defense.
And really people running dead on into the bunkers will get you killes no matter which map you are attacking.
I have generally found the the maps are setup in such a way that it is easier to get in on one side vs the other. Teams need to learn to exploit that. I have held the bridge on Acquisition only to have the other platoon totally frack it up and loose both vehicles.
Violater said:
Or they could just do as I mentioned above and allow each PMC to defend and attack each map within a mode of play. Any imbalances (given they exist) would be felt by every single person playing the game equally, and Zipper wouldn't have to tinker little details to try and force balance. Again: That's if there's an imbalance.
BattleMonkey
Member
TheFallen said:
Your talking from a personal perspective which is obviously a small sampling of the entire population, perhaps you had bad experiences with what you tried but don't try to make some kind of ridiculous claim of how more talented and organized a group of people are in a virtual game. This is like some of the ridiculous claims made about multi million populations in MMO when balance is discussed.
Strategy and teamwork are an important factor no doubt, but that doesn't change obvious advantages certain sides have. SVER is not invincible, but on various maps of theirs they have clear advantages that have been pointed out. It's not an unbeatable defense or attack set up, but if you were to put two teams of equal skill against each other, the advantage would be clearly apparent.
The posted image that is a funny joke is just 100% true, the map layouts are a joke for the most part with them heavily favoring SVER. It takes lot more work for Valor and Raven to win.
SVER is winning BIG in all modes according to the in game browser, please don't tell me that somehow the memo went out to all the leet to come join SVER that the rest of us never got.
Billen said:Mayby we would have done better if I hadn't knifed one of our guys during our somewhat successful and utterly stealthy attack from A to B
"Hey our squad leaders sniping!....Whoops accidently knifed him in the head on the run past"
If my mic had been working you would have heard me laughing a LOT
Jesse Jane
Banned
I don't know if this has been posted on gaf but
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_FEbTO8udg&feature=player_embedded
WE SO need to organize this LOL
I didn't get on much this weekend, but definitely looking to get on tonight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_FEbTO8udg&feature=player_embedded
WE SO need to organize this LOL
I didn't get on much this weekend, but definitely looking to get on tonight.
Anerythristic
Member
Hey check out what the guys at Zipper sent me, when they heard about my health issue...THANKS DAS-J and crew. I honestly really appreciate it. It made me feel great.
It's funny that you mention I'm making ridiculous claims. Yet you're arguing that SVER is at an advantage on all maps and all modes. That image showcased 1 map advantage. SVER is winning BIG in all modes, right? Last I recall there are 3 maps per mode. Where's that SVER advantage on the other maps? SVER is at a disadvantage on those maps with the weaker weapons.BattleMonkey said:
Lagspike_exe
Member
Anerythristic said:
BattleMonkey
Member
Vinci said:
In any online game in which the maps are not symmetrical and sides are set, it always breaks down into one side being favored in map layout and it's often turns ugly in forums with debates about it. It seriously always happens in these types of games. Recent example was Quake Wars, the sides were fixed and the maps would often favor one side over the other which lead to many map changes over time and balance patches to try to even things out, but it was hard and people always complained.
Really what you say is true, the sides of the maps should never have been fixed, it would all be balanced if it rotated.
BattleMonkey said:
My earlier assertion was this: If the SVER population began to dwarf the other two PMCs,' then their win percentage should drop if it's in fact based on player skill. If the population grows and their win percentage remains stable, something else is going on. But it's only been a short time, so it's hard to tell. That said, I saw evidence of SVER becoming the dominant PMC population-wise in the tourney and I expected them to either have the highest population in life or at least be very close to it.
Liberty4all
Banned
TheFallen said:
The advantage for SVER is that the other factions have home maps that are far harder to defend. Not a "little" harder, or "slightly" harder. FAR FAR harder. Raven almost NEVER wins Domination on their home map ... and it isn't because we suck, don't coordinate, or have less skilled players.
It's THE MAPS.
Why do you think you see 700 Raven players (opposed to SVER's 2500) in Domination versus 2000 Raven players in Acquisition? Acquisition is the only "home" map Raven has where we at least have a fair shot at getting a victory.
edit: the weapon differences are minor enough as to not matter when compared to the massive benefits of defending a Sver map, or attacking a crappy Raven map.
BattleMonkey
Member
TheFallen said:
I never said they had advantage on all maps, I said various maps and have said it before. They clearly don't have advantage on all maps, but it's been pointed out before that they have advantage on various maps. Since the maps are set even though the game shipped with quite a few, it puts a definite spin on the matchups possible since they are locked to modes and roles. A side having advantage on a single map is going to skew results, a side having advantages on several maps then it just compounds the issue.
Heck if SVER feels like its being made a target of cries, then fine, it's Raven and Valors fault.... so fix their shitty map designs.
As been pointed out, it's obvious people see the map issues, as you got population congregating towards the modes where they can actually win and not feel like they always are going to lose at it.
Liberty4all
Banned
Anerythristic said:Hey check out what the guys at Zipper sent me, when they heard about my health issue...THANKS DAS-J and crew. I honestly really appreciate it. It made me feel great.
so awesome
Lagspike_exe
Member
Wes said:
fixed.
Bamelin said:
Playing with a couple of friends last night (as SVER) we were defeated in Sab (while defending) three out of four matches. It's not easy but it's doable. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, they do to nerf SVER. Personally, I don't care as long as they don't over do it the other way.
Another thing to look at is that, by my calculations, Click accounts for roughly 34% of all SVER's victories so moving him over to one of the other factions may also be an option to rebalance.
oktarb
Member
One Week Review Frago that Bunker!
First and foremost, I really like this game. I would really love this game with some upgrades. For context Im level 33, a platoon leader and on Valor.
What I like:
+ The combat is intense and unmatched in scale by any other game. Its never a matter of feeling like you are surrounded and being shot at, you ARE surrounded and being shot at. Use cover keep moving and stay with you squad. Camp and a grenade will find you. Cover one hallway too long and you are going down. Change your tactics and you will be rewarded. Stay with you squad and you will have victories. Follow orders and they have an effect. If you like being a rogue, play MW2. Even snipers have to be team players.
+ Its a serious game and shouldnt really be played casually. I guess some may view this as a negative but I like the system and the zone you have to be in to win.
Could use some love:
- Not being able to set Fragos when jammed is a seriously overlooked issue. I understand that the attackers start the match by jamming the defenders. Makes sense, but to not be able to reset my Frago is just lame. Sure I can shout out Defend the left bunker! But why create a unique and fun system to then competently negate it for part of the game?
- Maps. Why O why cant we switch sides? Already Im getting the coppery taste of repetition in my mouth. There simply arent enough maps. Considering I think Suppression is a waste of time and Acquisition is never fun, I may feel more limited than some. But lets face it were here to play Domination so lets have the most diversity there. Sabotage is there for a nice peaceful break for mayhem overload.
- Lag. It does exist. If you have ever dodged a spray of bullets and both your vision and reflexes tell you that you got behind cover in time yet you die, this is lag. Shooting a guy tem times, seeing that red X ten times and then he turns around and one shots you, this is lag. MAG runs amazing at times and when it does its pure violent poetry. When it doesnt, brace yourself for some serious WTF moments.
Just don't Grok:
:| The weapon trees could use a little love. It seems to me that most people are finding out that the LMG seriously outweighs the assault rifle. I think this will continue to hold true thus making an entire tree useless. There really arent that many build types and to have one tree go limp will seriously hinder the addictive quality of building your char. Paratrooper perk? At normal level I can land on dime. Why do I need more control when paragliding in? How about replacing this with the ability to shoot or toss smoke while coming in for a landing. 2 points? Just a waste all around.
:| It makes sense that Platoon leaders and OIC cant set Fragos but it also just turns them into talking heads that call in airstrikes. By default this game is set so that ever squad is attacking/defending their own separate little area with some overlap into the neighboring squads. Then you move on to the next set of objectives that are yours. This can often lead to some serious stagnant battles. An option, specifically when attacking, is to pull you platoon off their default objectives and have them all converge on one target. You can then knock that in the dirt and move forcibly on to the next. This can however only be done verbally. OIC and Platoon leaders should be able to send orders to the squad leaders and have them accepted or denied. Accepting them moves the Frago to the platoon leaders choice. Denying them keeps the squad independent. An option I think must always exist. Its a game not enlistment.
Suggestions:
? Create a Squad Cohesion Bonus. If 5 of the 8 squad members are near each other we could get a squad exp bonus. Will promote teamwork and might make the rally point marker more useful.
? Work on the grenade indicator. It sucks.
? What DLC are you guys working on? We need a battle report for Zipper High Command.
First and foremost, I really like this game. I would really love this game with some upgrades. For context Im level 33, a platoon leader and on Valor.
What I like:
+ The combat is intense and unmatched in scale by any other game. Its never a matter of feeling like you are surrounded and being shot at, you ARE surrounded and being shot at. Use cover keep moving and stay with you squad. Camp and a grenade will find you. Cover one hallway too long and you are going down. Change your tactics and you will be rewarded. Stay with you squad and you will have victories. Follow orders and they have an effect. If you like being a rogue, play MW2. Even snipers have to be team players.
+ Its a serious game and shouldnt really be played casually. I guess some may view this as a negative but I like the system and the zone you have to be in to win.
Could use some love:
- Not being able to set Fragos when jammed is a seriously overlooked issue. I understand that the attackers start the match by jamming the defenders. Makes sense, but to not be able to reset my Frago is just lame. Sure I can shout out Defend the left bunker! But why create a unique and fun system to then competently negate it for part of the game?
- Maps. Why O why cant we switch sides? Already Im getting the coppery taste of repetition in my mouth. There simply arent enough maps. Considering I think Suppression is a waste of time and Acquisition is never fun, I may feel more limited than some. But lets face it were here to play Domination so lets have the most diversity there. Sabotage is there for a nice peaceful break for mayhem overload.
- Lag. It does exist. If you have ever dodged a spray of bullets and both your vision and reflexes tell you that you got behind cover in time yet you die, this is lag. Shooting a guy tem times, seeing that red X ten times and then he turns around and one shots you, this is lag. MAG runs amazing at times and when it does its pure violent poetry. When it doesnt, brace yourself for some serious WTF moments.
Just don't Grok:
:| The weapon trees could use a little love. It seems to me that most people are finding out that the LMG seriously outweighs the assault rifle. I think this will continue to hold true thus making an entire tree useless. There really arent that many build types and to have one tree go limp will seriously hinder the addictive quality of building your char. Paratrooper perk? At normal level I can land on dime. Why do I need more control when paragliding in? How about replacing this with the ability to shoot or toss smoke while coming in for a landing. 2 points? Just a waste all around.
:| It makes sense that Platoon leaders and OIC cant set Fragos but it also just turns them into talking heads that call in airstrikes. By default this game is set so that ever squad is attacking/defending their own separate little area with some overlap into the neighboring squads. Then you move on to the next set of objectives that are yours. This can often lead to some serious stagnant battles. An option, specifically when attacking, is to pull you platoon off their default objectives and have them all converge on one target. You can then knock that in the dirt and move forcibly on to the next. This can however only be done verbally. OIC and Platoon leaders should be able to send orders to the squad leaders and have them accepted or denied. Accepting them moves the Frago to the platoon leaders choice. Denying them keeps the squad independent. An option I think must always exist. Its a game not enlistment.
Suggestions:
? Create a Squad Cohesion Bonus. If 5 of the 8 squad members are near each other we could get a squad exp bonus. Will promote teamwork and might make the rally point marker more useful.
? Work on the grenade indicator. It sucks.
? What DLC are you guys working on? We need a battle report for Zipper High Command.
templeusox
Banned
MAG 3 is going to be a great PS4 launch title.
uraldix said:
Well, when you have those high level players that have unlocked stuff that causes mass destruction for the other team, and one as good as Click can undoubtedly do quite a bit. I used to play with and against him in Resistance 2 and know that he's very good. I think we have a few people in Raven GAF that can compete skills wise, though. What I'm not well versed in enough is to know yet if the SVER maps are as bad as people say or if group think has set in and everyone is repeating stuff that other people said and took it as the truth.
Lagspike_exe
Member
templeusox said:
I'd be more interested in SOCOM 4 for PS3 and then MAG 2 for PS4...
I want to see how they handle games with smaller player count and then to focus on MAG 2, since it's probably a game that could easily fit into top 5 games this gen that could be hugely improved with a hardware upgrade.
Harry_Manback
Neo Member
I'm with Valor but I'll answer anyway. At the start of the match the absolute majority of both squads have to zerg it. Throw smoke at the stairs, then book it! No long range fighting if it can be avoided while taking the point. Taking potshots from afar is pretty stupid, imo. SVER has med kits too. You'll never see any progress that way.Wes said:
The map is tough, but honestly it's mostly because people play the way SVER wants to play. Longrange.
Mr. Luchador
Member
Harry_Manback said:
People really need to start to use Smoke and Gas grenades more in this game, they're awesome. They're my best friend as an Engineer!
Hellsing321
Member
The accuracy of LMG needs to be reduced greatly when not prone. Right now there is no reason to choose an AR over an LMG.
lols 128 SVER soldiers posing for a picture
http://forums.mag.com/mag/board/message?board.id=generaldiscussion&thread.id=232781
http://forums.mag.com/mag/board/message?board.id=generaldiscussion&thread.id=232781
andycapps said:
On SVER's sabotage map, I'm a big believer in smoke. My favorite strategy (taking B) is to go around the left side of the left building. You've got a cover area right there (set the rally point), then throw smoke and work your way to the trailer. That will provide cover for you to group up. Usually you'll find a guy or two here, and possibly a sniper in a nearby tower. If your squad is decent, you can get 3 or 4 people here. Throw smoke at the stairs, and sprint for it.
Is there some way we can get high res top-down maps for all the different levels? That would be useful for annotating.
Harry_Manback
Neo Member
Smoke is pretty effective in sabotage. Against S.V.E.R I've found that you pretty much have to use smoke if they're trenched in. Otherwise you'll just get mowed down.andycapps said:
Liberty4all
Banned
Harry_Manback said:
Poison Gas works awesome against SVER in Sabotage too.
Lagspike_exe
Member
darkwing said: