Modern Masters is coming back?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Magic: the Gathering |OT10| Aether Revolt - That shit that make your Soul Burn slow
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
- Start date
- Status
Modern Masters is coming back?
Infinite Stars
Member
I can see Exalted Coming back but no Hierarch in Standard. The card is needing a reprint, but between Wizards blaming Mana Dorks for the sins of 3 drops, I don't see them willingly reprinting it.
Unless it's an expedition, in which case.. why? It does nothing to solve problems of availability.
Unless it's an expedition, in which case.. why? It does nothing to solve problems of availability.
I got yelled at by Charlequin last time I said it wasn't, so why not?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I mean, despite the fact that this theory made no sense, Sam Stoddard specifically talks about saving design space for future Modern Masters sets in his article today.
Aw shit the jig is up isn't it
Infinite Stars
Member
I'd go so far as to say that there was never any gig, and everyone who thought this was the last MM set was going more insane then the Overwatch Community during the Sombra stuff.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Sam also notes that he tried really hard to make Esper Ninjas a format archetype but there just aren't enough Ninjas.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I randomly put an Aetherworks Marvel a World Breaker and a Chandra into my Sideboard for 4c Tower and it's been really good. Having both Marvel and the Tower out at the same time is pretty disgusting as they feed each other.
Your deck seems like a fun mess. Did you go to FNM today?
charlequin
Banned
Seeing the final list that has a grand total of three artifacts that are interesting in any way (the rest is all signets) made me realize that they almost certainly went into this set with the mandate that Kaladesh inventions were off-limits, which I think I would disagree with as a design goal but certainly explains why 70+% of the "why isn't this in" cards are artifacts.
Being printed as a Masterpiece neither requires that its keyword mechanic (Exalted) or its broader mechanical themes (shards) be in the set, it just has to fit the Masterpiece theme and be plausibly flavored as fitting on the plane (which we've seen is interpreted liberally but still forms a real, concrete limiter.) Noble Hierarch can absolutely pass the flavor test in many different settings, but it's a question of what theme there could be that it would fit. (And a Masterpiece printing is worse than an MM printing in terms of price impact, anyway.)
I will say that as X Masters is slowly expanding as a way to gradually take the price pressure off individual high-end staples, there's also still a lot of options to tackle prices more aggressively. The Conspiracy sets showed us they can print some pretty pricey stuff in a normal-MSRP, semi-unlimited booster set, which means some cards that are expensive but not collection-anchoring collectibles can get deflated that way (Mishra's Bauble is like an optimal card for this type of treatment.) Or they have options for non-randomized sets as well -- either including them in stuff like Archenemy: NB where there's only a single SKU and therefore no unbalanced order issues, or distributing a set of high-end reprints across multiple decks in something like a commander product.
GoutPatrol
Forgotten in his cell
I was wrong about the latter and right about the former. They print mechanics in bunches.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
No, had no time today but the magic beta for modern masters started and for some reason they haven't deleted our collections. So you can just play with all the cards in standard. For FNM I still need to buy a bunch of the lands for the deck.
You should have seen my 4c summonings deck, that was a real mess. I played Ishkana in the deck that was basically all Instants.
I'll go play modern tomorrow at the Spielraum and maybe commander on Sunday at Magiccorner.
I might join in for some Commander, unless I fall deep down the Zelda hole and refuse to leave my TV. My deck is a mess right now; I spent basically no money after I buying the Breya deck and just added a bunch of cards I already owned. I got some combos in there but it's probably very inconsistent.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Is it just beta boosters? Because I'm not gonna install the beta just for that haha.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
So far yeah but they might do actual drafts over the weekends like they usually do with new sets.
With beta boosters it's a bit like cube.
And the standard testing of course.
MTGGoldfish - Box EV is $220 - https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/the-expected-value-of-modern-masters-2017
I wonder if the fetches went in mostly to pad EV and to help pad down the value so an eventual standard reprint isn't a hard crash like what happened to Khans.
I wonder if the fetches went in mostly to pad EV and to help pad down the value so an eventual standard reprint isn't a hard crash like what happened to Khans.
FreedomFrisbee
Member
Crushing Zen fetch value is a slightly different beast then crushing Onslaught fetch value. Onslaught fetches were going to get value stripped on reprint in any significant set no matter what simply as a function of them being printed for a smaller player base.
It could also be argued that current zen fetch prices are being propped up by early modern buyouts. They already took a hit from Onslaught fetches being reprinted, and now they take a hit from this.
I'd look at thoughtseize for reference point. After reprint the price stayed up at 40 for no real reason even after it rotated out of standard. The price has slowly halved. The price was being propped up and it takes time for that to undo itself from a reprint. These successive blows to enemy fetches will eventually collapse their prices to sub 30 levels. Likely for everything but scalding tarn. But it'll take time.
Another fun way to look at it is that fetches basically assured that anything at uncommon wont be expensive again for a very long time, and because of the crazy value of the set a lot of the rares will get value crushed too.
charlequin
Banned
I don't think they needed them to pad EV per se -- like, you can easily fill those five slots with cards left out of this set of comparable value -- but I do think it makes sense now that we know this set has a relatively larger supply to include something like fetchlands here to do a soft drop and thereby open up options to do less limited reprints in the future, yes.
The jump in total player count from Onslaught to Zendikar is way smaller than the one from Zendikar to today, though.
Well, I preordered one box back at $190 and 1 box at $200. Feeling pretty good with that decision. Hopefully, Mox Boarding House or Card Kingdom does some drafts with it too, as I'm definitely willing to buy some more if it means getting to play what looks like a pretty decent limited format.
Going to start slowly assembling Grixis Control and practicing it in the lead up to Grand Prix Vegas. I feel like Ad Nauseam was the right choice for Vancouver, but, going forward, I want a deck I enjoy piloting more and Grixis is pretty well positioned to pray on Death's Shadow Jund. If big mana recedes a bit too in this meta, it's a bonus. Should call home and see if there are any countersqualls in the piles of junk from the alara era. Had no idea that card had bumped up that much.
Going to start slowly assembling Grixis Control and practicing it in the lead up to Grand Prix Vegas. I feel like Ad Nauseam was the right choice for Vancouver, but, going forward, I want a deck I enjoy piloting more and Grixis is pretty well positioned to pray on Death's Shadow Jund. If big mana recedes a bit too in this meta, it's a bonus. Should call home and see if there are any countersqualls in the piles of junk from the alara era. Had no idea that card had bumped up that much.
Youll have a hard time against Tron though if everyone is preying on Suicide Zoo. Best be bringing that full surgical/fulminator package.
MTGGoldfish
charlequin
Banned
I actually really recommend reading the whole MTGGoldfish EV article; lots of interesting stuff in there.
- Their estimated launch-day EV for a box of the set is $220 even at the drastically reduced numbers a random individual can get selling on TCGPlayer/eBay -- wow.
- This set is far and away the safest and most consistent of the four Masters sets to open. MM2 was pretty much the Goyf Lottery -- if you opened a box with one of the top mythics it was great, otherwise it was garbage. Here, you can expect 93% of boxes to contain one fetchland, and 66% to contain two -- and although this printing is decreasing those cards' values, they're guaranteed to retain as much value as supply allows, so your chances of opening a significant amount of super-liquid rare or mythic value is extremely high.
- The preorder market has already accounted for a ton of this being opened and so just about everything is 20% - 40% down already. You can get Goyfs for days off the shelf for under $100, which I think the last time that was possible was M12-era, before Modern was created.
- Red stays losing: there are four mythics with red in the cost, and they're four of the five cheapest mythics, lol.
Yeah, I'll definitely still devote some board slots to it. Big mana archetypes are the biggest threat to grixis. The real question is how much hate should be in the board for dredge, as its presence is harder to read and the matchup is pretty poor mainboard. Fortunately, surgical does double duty. Need to figure out the Anger count though.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
The aforementioned 4c Tower deck. I'm surprised how good it is at handling PWs.
Its usually like 2-3 Angers plus a Damnation.
Past in Flame would have been fine if it didnt just get a reprint right before since Gifts Storm is a real deck.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
They could have put Through the Breach and Koth as red mythics and nobody would have been mad.
MysticLeviathan
Member
Overall, it's a solid set, but there are some questionable decisions with regards to left out cards.
The fact Doubling Season isn't in the set is mind boggling to me. Not only is it a needed reprint and a fan favorite, but it makes a ton of sense in the limited archetypes. Would fit perfectly in GW Populate.
No Noble Hierarch surprises me a bit as well. Being a Bant color fixer means it would've mad ea ton of sense in the set. Heck, the fact there wasn't Bird of Paradise either surprises me as well. Another Birds reprint but with new art would've been awesome.
No Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix, or Rift bolt. RIft Bolt was unlikely, but I"m honestly shocked there wasn't Lightning Helix in this multi-colored based set. Definitely disappointed there.
Unless Wizards was avoiding printing any Kaladesh Masterpieces in the set, I think Engineered Explosives and Ensnaring Bridge would've made a ton of sense for limited, and both could use another reprint.
No Cursecatcher. An expensive uncommon that could definitely use a reprint and would've worked very well in the U/B control shell archetype.
With regards to Through the Breach and Goryo's Vengeance, both cards that desperately need reprints, I understand completely why both weren't reprinted. Not enough big baddie behemoth cards for Breach to be useful for, and there really weren't many legendary creatures for Goryo's Vengeance to work with. And with Glimpse the Unthinkable, despite the U/B colors and how it would've fit in that regard, I don't think there's any mill, so it doesn't surprise me that it isn't in the set.
Can't really think what else, but I'm overall very pleased. Lots of fantastic reprints, and if the print run is as large as the rumors say, this set should be widely available, and all of these reprints will add a ton of copies of these cards to the marketplace. I think this set was a step in the right direction after the disaster that was MM2. However, I am disappointed that there was next to nothing worthwhile on the final day. The two best cards spoiled by far were Cyclonic Rift and Spell Pierce. Sam Stoddard said on Twitter that he wanted to leave Damnation for the last day, but felt it would've been too much of a troll move. Not sure how serious he was, but I honestly wish they would've spoiled the set and then just left Damnation in the final spoiled cards for everyone to freak out over it. Would've made everything sooooo much better. And then a few hours later release the article about Damnation and why it took so long to be reprinted.
The fact Doubling Season isn't in the set is mind boggling to me. Not only is it a needed reprint and a fan favorite, but it makes a ton of sense in the limited archetypes. Would fit perfectly in GW Populate.
No Noble Hierarch surprises me a bit as well. Being a Bant color fixer means it would've mad ea ton of sense in the set. Heck, the fact there wasn't Bird of Paradise either surprises me as well. Another Birds reprint but with new art would've been awesome.
No Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix, or Rift bolt. RIft Bolt was unlikely, but I"m honestly shocked there wasn't Lightning Helix in this multi-colored based set. Definitely disappointed there.
Unless Wizards was avoiding printing any Kaladesh Masterpieces in the set, I think Engineered Explosives and Ensnaring Bridge would've made a ton of sense for limited, and both could use another reprint.
No Cursecatcher. An expensive uncommon that could definitely use a reprint and would've worked very well in the U/B control shell archetype.
With regards to Through the Breach and Goryo's Vengeance, both cards that desperately need reprints, I understand completely why both weren't reprinted. Not enough big baddie behemoth cards for Breach to be useful for, and there really weren't many legendary creatures for Goryo's Vengeance to work with. And with Glimpse the Unthinkable, despite the U/B colors and how it would've fit in that regard, I don't think there's any mill, so it doesn't surprise me that it isn't in the set.
Can't really think what else, but I'm overall very pleased. Lots of fantastic reprints, and if the print run is as large as the rumors say, this set should be widely available, and all of these reprints will add a ton of copies of these cards to the marketplace. I think this set was a step in the right direction after the disaster that was MM2. However, I am disappointed that there was next to nothing worthwhile on the final day. The two best cards spoiled by far were Cyclonic Rift and Spell Pierce. Sam Stoddard said on Twitter that he wanted to leave Damnation for the last day, but felt it would've been too much of a troll move. Not sure how serious he was, but I honestly wish they would've spoiled the set and then just left Damnation in the final spoiled cards for everyone to freak out over it. Would've made everything sooooo much better. And then a few hours later release the article about Damnation and why it took so long to be reprinted.
charlequin
Banned
Especially with super-casual cards like this it's not too weird for this type of absence to indicate it's going to show up somewhere else down the line. I definitely wouldn't feel like Doubling Season had to be saved for this type of set; they could definitely squeeze it into something like Conspiracy without too much issue.
I am like 99% certain this is the case.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Why did they reprint Hurkyl's Recall in 10th edition that's as much not a modern appropriate card as choke and blood moon bit cutting 8th wouldn't even remove it.
As funny as it is, there's not much they can do about it. Early Modern set Red staples are at lower rarities or have seen multiple reprints. Any new Red Mythic staple printed in a Standard set now would almost certainly have too large a supply to reach levels of scarcity necessary to hold equity past a single reprint. Their best hope is probably something like upshifting Through the Breach and just spreading out the rest of the somewhat valuable Red Mythics enough throughout the next several years of reprint sets that they allow things like Purphoros, Urabrask, Eidolon, Koth, etc. to accrue enough value to at least be "acceptable" as a Mythic reprint. Reprinting Past in Flames in the Commander deck was a mistake. It's put even more pressure on Red Mythic slots in MM sets. Red being the worst Commander color doesn't help prop up demand either.
Koth would have been fine but another two years of additional demand helps keep it from collapsing entirely with a reprint. Plus it might be more timely if we're going to see a return of the Phyrexians around MM4. That would allow them to reprint Koth alongside Urabrask, as the second red mythic, and other costly Phyrexian cards.
It'd be a flavorful way to print things like Crucible of Worlds, Karn, Koth, Phyrexian Obliterator,Blightsteel Colossus,Elesh Norn, Vorinclex, Inkmoth, etc. With big, impactful bodies abound that would be a solid place for Through the Breach and Goryo's Vengeance as well.
Who knows? They seem to be getting a better handle on these sets but it's hard to guess where they'll go from here.
Red? Seven mana and etb tapped.
Giant Panda
Member
+ sacrifice at end of turn.
It wasn't that bad as long as you drafted the 11 Surging Dementia deck every time.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Went 4-1 in modern then won the top 8 with merfolk. Got attacked by emrakul 3 times but only lost once. Double Master of waves getting me there surviving 2 anger of the gods being the only permanets left on the battlefield for me when I swung for lethal.
It's easy to forget the value that comes with staying at 20. Titanshift only hits you for 18 and emrakul only for 15.
It's easy to forget the value that comes with staying at 20. Titanshift only hits you for 18 and emrakul only for 15.
Congrats. Yeah, I play Breach Titan (I don't play Emrakuls though) and Merfolk is a tough match up. You need an extra land to deal the 20 and those spreading seas are a nightmare.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I didn't feel favoured. I think Merfolk is almost guaranteed to lose game 1 and game 2 it depends on the sideboard makeup (number of seas, tec edges, countermagic) and if you bring in Boseiju chances are Fish is fucked.
Cursecatcher is a busted card but I'm still mad spirits got a better version. I don't understand why every blue tribe needs to have countermagic baked in.
Cursecatcher is a busted card but I'm still mad spirits got a better version. I don't understand why every blue tribe needs to have countermagic baked in.
I used to have a favourable matchup, but now they're running 4xUnified Wills in the sb and those make it hard to race.
charlequin
Banned
First confirmation today that Amonkhet is a top-down Ancient Egypt plane.
SHOCKING NEWS
From whom or where?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Can someone using tumble nail MaRo on reprinting 7th edition Lord of Atlantis in a modern border for me?
Foil prices for those are obscene and even if I'd splurge, I'd like my decks to be fully modern bordered.
Foil prices for those are obscene and even if I'd splurge, I'd like my decks to be fully modern bordered.
charlequin
Banned
I think it was pretty conceivable that they'd use an Ancient Egypt theme on top of a mechanical theme! But yes, not exactly a surprise.
Infinite Stars
Member
Amonkhet being top down leads me to believe we're likely going to get a bunch of flavor cards like Plagues, Pharoahs, etc.
At the very least, I'll be a bit disappointed if we don't get a Cleopatra Card.
At the very least, I'll be a bit disappointed if we don't get a Cleopatra Card.
- Status