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Magic: the Gathering |OT10| Aether Revolt - That shit that make your Soul Burn slow

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A

An-Det

Member
My friend just got wrecked on camera by an infect player keeping a 3 troll ascetic opener vs my friend on jund. Turns out the card is still fantastic.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
HK-47 said:
You have low expectations for everything.
Click to expand...
The fact you remember some unspecified negative post doesn't fairly lead to that conclusion.

There are a lot of things about recent design and development that would fairly lead to the conclusion Amonkhet isn't likely to be great.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
My biggest concern about Amonkhet is their very recent realization that the answer/threat dynamic had gotten out of hand and all the recent bannings that lead to. They way they discussed things a while back made it seem that they still had time to make changes to the Amonkhet block (if not the set) and that they had done so (I might need to review their words to make sure I didn't misunderstand something). Last minute changes and/or reactionary design rarely turns out well (see most broken cards ever OR the backlash like Mercadia/Kamigawa).
 
O

OnPoint

Member
Angry Grimace said:
The fact you remember some unspecified negative post doesn't fairly lead to that conclusion.

There are a lot of things about recent design and development that would fairly lead to the conclusion Amonkhet isn't likely to be great.
Click to expand...
I dunno man, like, I like you as a member in here and you have good insight, but you mostly come off unhappy with Magic. Didn't your threaten in a fairly serious manner to sell out several times? Amonkhet aside (I agree, I'm worried too), I can see where they would get that impression is all I'm saying.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
Angry Grimace said:
There are a lot of things about recent design and development that would fairly lead to the conclusion Amonkhet isn't likely to be great.
Click to expand...

Nothing that would go without saying, at least. Historically speaking blocks aren't good predictors of the quality of successive blocks (in both directions, see CHK -> RAV and KTK -> BFZ), changes in development happen faster than changes in design, and most of the design issues from the last X months are localized to particular areas of competitive play -- like, the casual support has been excellent and the draft formats haven't all been awful and the eternal formats have done really well for themselves, etc. etc.

Like, I'm sure there's a case there, but it's more involved than "well a lot of stuff has sucked so other stuff will continue to suck." I want to hear more about what's specifically a risk factor here.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Angry Grimace said:
The fact you remember some unspecified negative post doesn't fairly lead to that conclusion.

There are a lot of things about recent design and development that would fairly lead to the conclusion Amonkhet isn't likely to be great.
Click to expand...

Not a specific post, just recognizing a general pattern.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
I got to test out my Kynaios and Tiro combostax deck out and I realized I need some more card draw and/or selection.
I can make 3 or 4 cuts right now on the spot (I realised I should be playing wargate).

No idea where to start my, blue decks in EDH all have commanders that laugh at CA and card disadvantage. Should I go ponder, compulsive research, wheel of fortune? Alternatively I could run more ramp to power out K&T sooner and more consistently.
 
Y

Yeef

Member
Crocodile said:
My biggest concern about Amonkhet is their very recent realization that the answer/threat dynamic had gotten out of hand and all the recent bannings that lead to. They way they discussed things a while back made it seem that they still had time to make changes to the Amonkhet block (if not the set) and that they had done so (I might need to review their words to make sure I didn't misunderstand something). Last minute changes and/or reactionary design rarely turns out well (see most broken cards ever OR the backlash like Mercadia/Kamigawa).
Click to expand...
They made emergency changes when they switched Standard back to a two-year rotation. More than likely to make sure things gelled with BFZ black, which would have rotated otherwise.

One thing that jumps out is that we're getting a new Gideon, so they may have had to change his design to incentivize using the new one over Ally of Zendikar.
 
T

traveler

Not Wario
New Gideon better be for a different style of deck entirely. No way they can print something better than Ally of Zendikar at what it does.
 
I

Infinite Stars

Member
traveler said:
New Gideon better be for a different style of deck entirely. No way they can print something better than Ally of Zendikar at what it does.
Click to expand...
New Gideon better be an actual Gideon, and not "2/3rds of Elspeth stapled to 1/3rd of Gideon"

Show me this famed warrior, not a Mediterranean Jock who shits out 2/2s and gives an Anthem.

Like, if we use the Origin Designs as an "essence" of what the Planeswalker does, every Origins Walker is in tone with the other versions since:

Liliana likes the dead, Nissa likes Lands, Chandra burns(and is usually awful), Jace has some ability that messes with attackers and an Ultimate that is "Fuck it, I guess you win" territory(Both Teleopath Unbound and Jace Detective have Ultimates that are lol worthy if/when they go off), and Gideon's origins card is the farthest away in terms of familiarity.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Both standard chandras are great though. Like the best chandras available and by a wide margin.

Completely forgot this card is a thing.
realms%20uncharted.jpg
Click to expand...
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
OnPoint said:
I dunno man, like, I like you as a member in here and you have good insight, but you mostly come off unhappy with Magic. Didn't your threaten in a fairly serious manner to sell out several times? Amonkhet aside (I agree, I'm worried too), I can see where they would get that impression is all I'm saying.
Click to expand...
I have almost no interest in discussing whether people like me personally or not or think I'm not positive enough about the game unless they have some specific reason to argue why a specific argument or sentiment is wrong. It's an ad hominem waste of everyone's time, particularly mine.

HK-47 said:
Not a specific post, just recognizing a general pattern.
Click to expand...
I very much don't care whether you vaguely have reasons to think I'm dumb. How am I supposed to respond to that? It's not a magic discussion.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
Angry Grimace said:
I have almost no interest in discussing whether people like me personally or not or think I'm not positive enough about the game unless they have some specific reason to argue why a specific argument or sentiment is wrong. It's an ad hominem waste of everyone's time, particularly mine.


I very much don't care whether you vaguely have reasons to think I'm dumb. How am I supposed to respond to that? It's not a magic discussion.
Click to expand...
I don't think you're dumb. You commented that they were off base, I commented I don't think they were. I just didn't want you to take it as an attack. You're a great poster and the thread is better for having you in it.

If you have no interest, don't take the bait next time. Simple as that.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
OnPoint said:
I don't think you're dumb. You commented that they were off base, I commented I don't think they were. I just didn't want you to take it as an attack. You're a great poster and the thread is better for having you in it.

If you have no interest, don't take the bait next time. Simple as that.
Click to expand...
It is an attack. Enough.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
charlequin said:
Nothing that would go without saying, at least. Historically speaking blocks aren't good predictors of the quality of successive blocks (in both directions, see CHK -> RAV and KTK -> BFZ), changes in development happen faster than changes in design, and most of the design issues from the last X months are localized to particular areas of competitive play -- like, the casual support has been excellent and the draft formats haven't all been awful and the eternal formats have done really well for themselves, etc. etc.

Like, I'm sure there's a case there, but it's more involved than "well a lot of stuff has sucked so other stuff will continue to suck." I want to hear more about what's specifically a risk factor here.
Click to expand...

Development has missed a ton of unfun cards (to the point we've had Standard bans for the first time in years from each of those blocks, I might add) for the last four blocks (not just one) and the removal of an entire rotation cycle is worrying. It would be one thing if just one block was busted but they haven't printed threats and answers to those threats in a reasonable ratio in years because it's a specific design philosophy to not do so.

The style they've been cultivating has lead to a lot of unfun Standard environments dominated by snowballing cards.

OnPoint said:
lol ok dad sorry

All I know is I hope Amonkhet is good.
Click to expand...
I don't want it to be bad. I just don't have faith based on the current design philosophy. The bad cards that are getting through because they keep soliciting designs like that and pushing them.

It's less that they're bad at their jobs and more that Thur specifically have been shaping an environment that looks like current standard since around Khans. It would be different if it was just one block that looked like Theros block (which wasn't that bad, really.)
 
T

traveler

Not Wario
Infinite Stars said:
New Gideon better be an actual Gideon, and not "2/3rds of Elspeth stapled to 1/3rd of Gideon"

Show me this famed warrior, not a Mediterranean Jock who shits out 2/2s and gives an Anthem.

Like, if we use the Origin Designs as an "essence" of what the Planeswalker does, every Origins Walker is in tone with the other versions since:

Liliana likes the dead, Nissa likes Lands, Chandra burns(and is usually awful), Jace has some ability that messes with attackers and an Ultimate that is "Fuck it, I guess you win" territory(Both Teleopath Unbound and Jace Detective have Ultimates that are lol worthy if/when they go off), and Gideon's origins card is the farthest away in terms of familiarity.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Other than his animate mode, new Gideon is pretty much the best aggro Elspeth ever.

Out of curiosity, I went browsing through cards in recently printed (basically in standard) to see how many modern/legacy playable staples have been printed in standard sets in each of the colors.

Spells have taken a pretty big dive with creatures/permanents that interact with creatures/function as them on the rise. I guess this doesn't really come as a surprise, but development has really been pushing creatures for a while and it's kind of shocking to see how little blue in particular, for being the color most associated with stack interaction, has received. Outside of the hilarious misses that were DTT and TC, (both of which promptly got banned) blue got Baral- a very specific piece of one Modern deck- spell queller, rattlechains and maus wanderer, (once again, specific creature pieces of one deck) thing in the ice, and saheeli rai, a combo piece that's not exactly a guaranteed eternal staple yet by any means. Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, while absurd in standard is just too slow in older formats and is, again, a creature. None of these are cross deck staples; they're all specific, largely creature based components of certain strategies.

Other colors have contributed new cross format and cross deck staples like Grim Flayer, Reality Smasher, Thought Knot Seer, Gideon, Kalitas, Tireless Tracker, Siege Rhino, and other Renegade Rallyer.

Black seems to be the exception to the weak spells rule, with the recently printed Fatal Push, Collective Brutality, and Kolaghan's Command, although it's worth noting Green's army in a can CoCo.

Red got..... monastery swiftspear and atarka's command? Outside the beefier control specific Chandra, Flame of Kaladesh and Nahiri, that's pretty much it. Oh, and madcap experiment sees some fringe modern play in certain decks. Blue and red are just too traditionally reliant on the stack in an era where development is making the game entirely about creatures and interacting with them to get cards competitive in older environments.

I really hope development is really reconsidering their emphasis on pushing creatures by stapling powerful effects to them while weakening spells. Not a huge fan of the direction they've taken things.
 
T

traveler

Not Wario
Oh yeah, I missed it and Amalgam. Probably due to my comprehensive methodology. (Sorting all singles in standard by price high to low and looking through everything above a certain price lol) Cathartic Reunion is pretty great, although not really a format staple so much as it is a specific roleplayer in some decks. And amalgam and harbinger and obviously single deck synergy driven creatures.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Angry Grimace said:
I have almost no interest in discussing whether people like me personally or not or think I'm not positive enough about the game unless they have some specific reason to argue why a specific argument or sentiment is wrong. It's an ad hominem waste of everyone's time, particularly mine.


I very much don't care whether you vaguely have reasons to think I'm dumb. How am I supposed to respond to that? It's not a magic discussion.
Click to expand...

You are taking this as way more of an attack than it was. A serious overreaction, acting like I'm implying a whole host of things about you.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
traveler said:
Agreed. Other than his animate mode, new Gideon is pretty much the best aggro Elspeth ever.

Out of curiosity, I went browsing through cards in recently printed (basically in standard) to see how many modern/legacy playable staples have been printed in standard sets in each of the colors.

Spells have taken a pretty big dive with creatures/permanents that interact with creatures/function as them on the rise. I guess this doesn't really come as a surprise, but development has really been pushing creatures for a while and it's kind of shocking to see how little blue in particular, for being the color most associated with stack interaction, has received. Outside of the hilarious misses that were DTT and TC, (both of which promptly got banned) blue got Baral- a very specific piece of one Modern deck- spell queller, rattlechains and maus wanderer, (once again, specific creature pieces of one deck) thing in the ice, and saheeli rai, a combo piece that's not exactly a guaranteed eternal staple yet by any means. Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, while absurd in standard is just too slow in older formats and is, again, a creature. None of these are cross deck staples; they're all specific, largely creature based components of certain strategies.

Other colors have contributed new cross format and cross deck staples like Grim Flayer, Reality Smasher, Thought Knot Seer, Gideon, Kalitas, Tireless Tracker, Siege Rhino, and other Renegade Rallyer.

Black seems to be the exception to the weak spells rule, with the recently printed Fatal Push, Collective Brutality, and Kolaghan's Command, although it's worth noting Green's army in a can CoCo.

Red got..... monastery swiftspear and atarka's command? Outside the beefier control specific Chandra, Flame of Kaladesh and Nahiri, that's pretty much it. Oh, and madcap experiment sees some fringe modern play in certain decks. Blue and red are just too traditionally reliant on the stack in an era where development is making the game entirely about creatures and interacting with them to get cards competitive in older environments.

I really hope development is really reconsidering their emphasis on pushing creatures by stapling powerful effects to them while weakening spells. Not a huge fan of the direction they've taken things.
Click to expand...

I think the silliest thing is how Green is getting things like card draw and deathtouch when those are from opposing colors. Especially when outside of one mana dorks it hasnt given up anything. So green now has nearly the best card draw as well as the best land selection, ramp and color fixing and decent deck search.

I'm not as mad as others about the whole creature thing though. Mainly because the stack and noncreature spells seriously outclassed creatures for so much of Magic's lifespan. So I'm not exactly torn up now that the shoe is on the other foot.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Green has long been the 2nd or 3rd best at card draw, depending on how you compare it to black.
And the very first card printed with Deathtouch (the keyword) was green, it is secondary green.

Green is easily the strongest colour in modern though.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
HK-47 said:
You are taking this as way more of an attack than it was. A serious overreaction, acting like I'm implying a whole host of things about you.
Click to expand...
I'm not. I'm just telling you it isn't a viable conversation topic because it has no rhetorical value.
 
A

ajf009

Member
Gosh this mtg thread drama is fun

/s

traveler said:
Red got..... monastery swiftspear and atarka's command? Outside the beefier control specific Chandra, Flame of Kaladesh and Nahiri, that's pretty much it. Oh, and madcap experiment sees some fringe modern play in certain decks. Blue and red are just too traditionally reliant on the stack in an era where development is making the game entirely about creatures and interacting with them to get cards competitive in older environments.

I really hope development is really reconsidering their emphasis on pushing creatures by stapling powerful effects to them while weakening spells. Not a huge fan of the direction they've taken things.
Click to expand...

Red also got Eidolon, burn has gotten a whole lot better in the last couple years, specifically in modern
 
C

cooltrainer

Member
I don't think it's a bad thing that magic design has become more creature focused. Creatures are a lot more interesting and interactive than spells most of the time. But the problem is Red and Blue are not "creature colors". They don't really seem to have been updated to the new design philosophy. So they have neutered blue and red''s bread and butter without really giving them much back. I mean in the last set red got 0 revolt cards because "red is all about spells" even though the story Pia and Chandra are important characters and red is a great color mechanically and thematically for revolt.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Ashodin said:
new Gideon better be better than Ally of Zendikar.
Click to expand...
I really hope not. In fact I'd hope it goes back to the Gideon Jura mechanical identity instead of just being Elspeth that can attack.

I suppose "can attack" is now more of his mechanical identity than anything else now though.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
I kinda hope Gideon does something new. I'm tired of the "turns into big indestructible creature thing." There is no new space to explore there.
 
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