Support NeoGAF

[Simply Sarah]

I actually think avoiding most Exodus related concepts is the right call even ignoring an sensitivities. Yes, it's well known culturally in the West but I tend to feel it's much more strongly associated with religion than Egypt and even where it is there's very little to work with. Exodus is actually a pretty terrible story to try and hit points on because I feel popular culture remembers three concepts from the story that have even the slightest bit to do with Egypt: "Let my people go", plagues, Red Sea. I my view, you can do a few plague-related things and that's basically it. Everything else risks swallowing the plane if you try to force it in.

I'm not saying that we need an underclass strictly, but I'd imagine a Planar Portal would be helpful in letting the Amonkhetti escape the hour of Devastation. Gideon/Gatewatch fighting Bolas to "let the people go" would be a fair analogue.

Here, however, I don't think it's possible to make it work. It would almost certainly require molding far too much of the story/plane around this one single reference, potentially to the point where it stops being top-down Egyptian themed and is more top-down Exodus themed.

I think in terms of lines of play and interesting angles, "draw a card and optionally return a land" is much more interesting than a triggered scry 1 plus ability to make guys unblockable, tbh.

Oh, I think the cards are fine and potentially Standard standouts. But I think to a lot of people, both based on my general view of a lot of players as well as the actual response I've seen, they neither read like something with an exciting ability or a giant scary monster they can use due to how the attack/block conditions are formatted. tl;dr It feels like many people are reading them as creatures with a big downside.

 

[Ashodin]

Well the blue god is obviously "use me until you can get 7 cards, then swing breh"

And the red god is "use me to discard until I can swing"

Each one plays into its usual theme, blue wanting a full grip and red wanting none.

Flavor wise it's a home run.

Constructed wise? Eh. Remains to be seen. I had fun building around Hazoret though.

And I think Hour of Devastation will be way more Exodus themed than people realize. They said it would be more Bolas themed... so multicolor?

 

[ThLunarian]

I am getting the impression that this plane is similar to Apokolips from DC, with Nicole Bolas as Darkseid

 

[Ashodin]

Prepared // Fight is REALLY good with crewing vehicles. Tap, crew, Prepared, Swing with both creatures. Second main, Fight something that you didn't smash into.

Yeah. That card is definitely worth being rare.

 

[Firemind]

I am getting the impression that this plane is similar to Apokolips from DC, with Nicole Bolas as Darkseid

Nicole Bolas, Housekeeper

 

[Matsukaze]

I am getting the impression that this plane is similar to Apokolips from DC, with Nicole Bolas as Darkseid

Who gets to be Granny Goodness?

 

[Santiako]

Prepared // Fight is REALLY good with crewing vehicles. Tap, crew, Prepared, Swing with both creatures. Second main, Fight something that you didn't smash into.

Yeah. That card is definitely worth being rare.

Can you imagine playing in limited against a deck that has multiple copies? Shudder

 

[Ashodin]

Except unlike Apokolips invading Earth, I bet we'll get New Phyrexia invading Dominaria just as Bolas gets defeated next year.

"You think you're some sort of heroes, don't you? Well how will you face the yawning void of Phyrexia?"

*portals open*

*phyrexians pour in*

*Karn shows up, with new planeswalkers in tow*

*Ajani shows up, with new planeswalkers in tow*

*Invasion Block 2 happens*

I would fucking die happy

 

[ThLunarian]

There will probably be a major collision of multiple storylines eventually. Phyrexians, Bolas, Emrakul, Ugin, Sorin, the Gatewatch, and the rest

 

[Ashodin]

There's actually zero cards I'm interested in beyond Prepared to Fight or Hazoret for my RW Equipment deck so far.

There's a token-based Equipment build there though. I'm not sure what colors it'd be, though. Maybe Azorius.

 

[Son1x]

I like the two new gods so far. Already thinking of brewing in Standard again although if removal for both the CopyCat and Heart of Kiran doesn't get better, I'll just skip another season.

I just want to go back to Dominaria so we can get more Slivers. I have a feeling I'm gonna be disappointed though.

 

[Toxi]

The Exodus is not part of ancient Egyptian mythology or archaeological record, so I don't think it would fit into Amonkhet. Especially when Amonkhet is a plane where there's a pantheon of gods and Exodus is a story of monotheistic religions.

 

[Infinite Stars]

The Exodus is not part of ancient Egyptian mythology or archaeological record, so I don't think it would fit into Amonkhet. Especially when Amonkhet is a plane where there's a pantheon of gods and Exodus is a story of monotheistic religions.

The Kraken doesn't appear in any ancient Greek texts, but Wizards included several in Theros block because Wrath/Clash of the Titans.

They're not above including references to other works if they're closely associated with the plane's theme(Krakens on Theros, The Fly on Innistrad, etc)

 

[aidan]

The Kraken doesn't appear in any ancient Greek texts, but Wizards included several in Theros block because Wrath/Clash of the Titans.

They're not above including references to other works if they're closely associated with the plane's theme(Krakens on Theros, The Fly on Innistrad, etc)

WotC manages to fit dragons into every set—they're fine with bending creative boundaries when necessary.

 

[Toxi]

The Kraken doesn't appear in any ancient Greek texts, but Wizards included several in Theros block because Wrath/Clash of the Titans.

They're not above including references to other works if they're closely associated with the plane's theme(Krakens on Theros, The Fly on Innistrad, etc)

True.

Also, is it sad that I'm not surprised at the shitty racism in the top comments on the YouTube trailer?

 

[hermit7]

The Kraken doesn't appear in any ancient Greek texts, but Wizards included several in Theros block because Wrath/Clash of the Titans.

They're not above including references to other works if they're closely associated with the plane's theme(Krakens on Theros, The Fly on Innistrad, etc)

Not entirely. Scylla and Charybdis were "sea monsters" in Ancient Greek lore.

I think that the Exodus is a fairly important component to Egyptian history and influences modern day thought on the topic. At the very least they could reference it maybe in the next set with the devastation coming from Bolas.

Maro does always reference the need to meet players expectations and a cycle of plagues in each color seems like something they would do.

 

[Ashodin]

what the fuck wotc, where are the midday and evening spoilers

 

["God's Beard!"]

None of the two color gods were played except small numbers of Xenagos in GR Monsters. Keranos saw play in Modern (and still does a little), but I never saw it in Standard. There are people who play Kruphix in EDH.

Pharika saw play in constellation and whip of erebos decks for quite a while after the devotion decks were gone.

 

[The Technomancer]

The big problem with doing the exodus is that there's already a set called Exodus

 

[Ashodin]

The big problem with doing the exodus is that there's already a set called Exodus

we don't need the "lead people off the plane" part


wait



that sounds like an awesome idea, reverse mirrodin!

 

[OnPoint]

The big problem with doing the exodus is that there's already a set called Exodus

I mean they wouldn't just use the actual name.

 

[Santiako]

They could call it Exodia.

 

[Muskieratboi]

Cheap cycler + Oblivion Ring for 4. Not too bad.

Oh thank the gods, we have a Replacement for Stasis Snare when it rotates out...
And it's beefed up, too! 1CMC more for nonland permanent and cycling? Very nice.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

The most I would do is reference a plague in some sort of wrath variant. Something that wraths in the form of -1/-1 counters a la BSZ.

 

[OnPoint]

The most I would do is reference a plague in some sort of wrath variant. Something that wraths in the form of -1/-1 counters a la BSZ.

Yeah we were calling for that in a previous topic. I would love if they did this. I don't expect it until Hour of Devastation though, based solely on the name and the weight it carries. Would honestly love Damnation in standard haha BUT IT'S NOT HAPPENING so I will continue dreaming.

 

[Yeef]

The most I would do is reference a plague in some sort of wrath variant. Something that wraths in the form of -1/-1 counters a la BSZ.

Rosewater already hinted that we might see curses in this block, if not in this set.

 

[Imperfected]

Yeah we were calling for that in a previous topic. I would love if they did this. I don't expect it until Hour of Devastation though, based solely on the name and the weight it carries. Would honestly love Damnation in standard haha BUT IT'S NOT HAPPENING so I will continue dreaming.

If they reprinted Damnation in Standard right after putting it in a Modern Masters set, that'd be a bit of a dick move.

 

[Santiako]

Oh thank the gods, we have a Replacement for Stasis Snare when it rotates out...
And it's beefed up, too! 1CMC more for nonland permanent and cycling? Very nice.

I just realised that this can remove planeswalkers at instant speed. Neat.

 

[Ashodin]

Rosewater already hinted that we might see curses in this block, if not in this set.

+

=

 

[Adaren]

And I think Hour of Devastation will be way more Exodus themed than people realize. They said it would be more Bolas themed... so multicolor?

HOD being multicolor might explain why the gods each only require a single colored mana, despite having extremely mono-colored abilities.

 

[OnPoint]

Have they ever done a block where one set was mono-based and the next set(s) was multi?

 

[kirblar]

Have they ever done a block where one set was mono-based and the next set(s) was multi?

Khans->FRF worked like that but in reverse.

 

[Ashodin]

Have they ever done a block where one set was mono-based and the next set(s) was multi?

cycle lands seem to give it away. Ally multicolor second set.

 

[kirblar]

cycle lands seem to give it away. Ally multicolor second set.

We're probably getting the enemy cycle duals next set due to cycling being a pretty uncommon mechanic. They like off-setting the rare lands for some reason (Ally theme-> enemy lands, enemy theme->ally lands.)

 

[OnPoint]

cycle lands seem to give it away. Ally multicolor second set.

You think so? Even with the enemy lands almost certainly coming in HoD?

 

[Ashodin]

You think so? Even with the enemy lands almost certainly coming in HoD?

eh

 

[The Technomancer]

I mean they wouldn't just use the actual name.

This is the entire reason they aren't doing an exodus

 

[Ri'Orius]

cycle lands seem to give it away. Ally multicolor second set.

They make a new rare dual land cycle every block. It's not a sign of multicolor to come.

Now, if there were a cycle at common or uncommon...

 

[Yeef]

I can't help but wonder what's up with this spoiler season so far. Barely any midday or late day spoilers from third parties. It makes it a lot less exciting to only get the morning dump and the midnight dump.

I wonder if it has something to do with wanting to avoid leaks and/or kowtowing to Vorthoses who complain about story beats being spoiled too early.

 

[Infinite Stars]

I can't help but wonder what's up with this spoiler season so far. Barely any midday or late day spoilers from third parties. It makes it a lot less exciting to only get the morning dump and the midnight dump.

I wonder if it has something to do with wanting to avoid leaks and/or kowtowing to Vorthoses who complain about story beats being spoiled too early.

Which you know, they could have avoided Vorthos' complaining by not leaving the Story to start until last week. We got the art for the gods during the middle of March iirc, Imagine if we had started the story then?

I think they killed most momentum for the set by having MM2017 come in between and having 6+ Weeks of non-stories. There's of course the fact that Standard has somehow become worse then last season because Cat/Mardu Vehicles continue to screw things up.

Like, I really am curious come the year end reports if Amonkhet underperforms and what they attribute it to, because everything right now seems like this set has been hurt by changes inside Wizards.

 

[Supast4r]

Which you know, they could have avoided Vorthos' complaining by not leaving the Story to start until last week. We got the art for the gods during the middle of March iirc, Imagine if we had started the story then?

I think they killed most momentum for the set by having MM2017 come in between and having 6+ Weeks of non-stories. There's of course the fact that Standard has somehow become worse then last season because Cat/Mardu Vehicles continue to screw things up.

Like, I really am curious come the year end reports if Amonkhet underperforms and what they attribute it to, because everything right now seems like this set has been hurt by changes inside Wizards.

It's just bad design after bad design. I have low expections for this set based on what we have seen so far.

 

[OnPoint]

I agree that we've been bad at evaluating things at times. We missed Siege Rhino, many of us were down on EDM Liliana (I know I was), but so far, man, I am not really digging what we're seeing in this set.

...

So, best ever expansion incoming?

 

[cuc]

I think that the Exodus is a fairly important component to Egyptian history and influences modern day thought on the topic. At the very least they could reference it maybe in the next set with the devastation coming from Bolas.

Maro does always reference the need to meet players expectations and a cycle of plagues in each color seems like something they would do.

I agree the plane of Amonkhet may not survive the Hour of Devastation, an Exodus event is likely on hand, WotC might try to meet audience expectations based on The Prince of Egypt etc. But to be pedantic, there has been no archaeological evidence for Exodus so far. Current academic consensus is that the Israelites were natives of the Levant, and the story of Exodus is based either on distant memories of the Hyksos expulson, or Hebrews expanding from their high lands to fill the power vacuum left by the Late Bronze Age collapse of civilizations.

(Actually I'm just posting this to get more people to watch the video in the second link.)

 

[Remembrance]

The most I would do is reference a plague in some sort of wrath variant. Something that wraths in the form of -1/-1 counters a la BSZ.

Masterpiece Plague Wind incoming in Hour of Devastation.

 

[Santiako]

Limited fodder. Decent against embalm decks I guess. Not knowing enough of the set I'd say this card will sometimes squeak as your 23rd but will most likely end up in your sideboard.

 

[MoxManiac]

Lol. For one more mana you can overload Cyclonic Rift.

 

[Remembrance]

Remember Whiplash Trap in limited?

 

[Ashodin]

That card is absolutely terrible.

Also Flood!!!!!

I'm feeling like this: If the set is top down design, the cards will be janky and suck

If the set is bottom up mechanics, the cards will be OP as fuck and the story will suck balls.

They just can't get it right.

 

[Santiako]

That card is absolutely terrible.

Also Flood!!!!!

I'm feeling like this: If the set is top down design, the cards will be janky and suck

If the set is bottom up mechanics, the cards will be OP as fuck and the story will suck balls.

They just can't get it right.

Theros vs Kaladesh hahaha

 

[Big Icarus]

I'm getting an impression that these gods are seeming so generic for people, because unlike in Theros, they don't tie into the set's mechanic or even play off of any set mechanics in any way really. They are just indestructible fatties with color activated abilities. In Theros, the gods were at least an interesting pay off to either the constellation or devotion mechanics.

I think they are kinda telling of what is causing some people like myself to be incredibly cynical about this set. The problem I'm finding with this Amonket is that there is no interplay at all with all these mechanics. There's way too many things going on in this set that have nothing to do to with each other, and as a result it seems like the set has no mechanical focus, and the Gods reflect that.

I mean, -1/-1 counters have no play with cycling, and that has nothing to do with exert, which doesn't overlap at all with Embalm. And we also have these parasitic Brick Counters, and Cartouche things thrown into this set for no reason.

And just from a general card evaluation perspective I can tell that without any safety valve hate cards in the format the Embalm mechanic is just going to dominate limited play. When almost every white creature in draft is essentially a Lingering Souls equivalent, you can expect the drafter who is in a good seat for white cards to just do generally better than other drafters.

So far, even given what little we've seen of the set, there's been a lot of signs that have me worried about this set.