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Magic: The Gathering |OT3| Enchantment Under the Siege

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Zocano

Member
I remember trying to fool around with weird reanimator stuff when I was actively playing in standard but making it more efficient just ended up turning it into standard mono-black. I really hope there are some neat reanimator things in Khan ):

Fooling around with Deadbridge Chant was fun
 

bigkrev

Member
arc20140707_cp.jpg


They finally tell us what clash packs are. I think its pretty cool- lots of alternate art stuff in it
0006_MTGM15_CP1_EN_HRR.jpg

0005_MTGM15_CP1_EN_HRR.jpg

0001_MTGM15_CP1_EN_HRR.jpg


No MSRP though. 19.99?
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-2015-clash-pack-2014-07-07
 

bigkrev

Member
It'll be 29.99 according to the earlier announcement.

Seems a little pricey, but those are some really cool alternate arts.

That price is fine as well. I'm curious if they are going to update the Theros block cards to all have the new frame in this release- for something that seems targeted at new players (This is something that seems more targeted at "board gamers" than any release in recent memory), it might be confusing if half the cards look different.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
That price is fine as well. I'm curious if they are going to update the Theros block cards to all have the new frame in this release- for something that seems targeted at new players (This is something that seems more targeted at "board gamers" than any release in recent memory), it might be confusing if half the cards look different.

The custom symbol means it has to be an entirely separate printing anyway, so I don't see why they wouldn't
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
That's the symbol they have been using on promos for a few years, not the symbol for the set

I guess its a question if the other cards in the pack have the M15 symbol or not. if they're reprinting the Theros cards or just pulling them from their stock
 

ultron87

Member
It'll probably affect the price a bit but not as much as a Duel Deck would. Clash Packs are in the event deck slot so I assume they'll be in LGSes but not Walmart like a Duel Deck would.
 

bigkrev

Member
It'll probably affect the price a bit but not as much as a Duel Deck would. Clash Packs are in the event deck slot so I assume they'll be in LGSes but not Walmart like a Duel Deck would.

So, both targets near me got the Event deck for Journey in. It might be a more wide distribution product now?
 

ElyrionX

Member
Sure, yeah. It's four months away. I'm speaking strictly from a financial standpoint. If you're going to play a bunch in between now and then, go for the deck you want to play now.

All of those cards in UW are going to drop in price, with perhaps the exception of Elspeth. Fountain will rebound in price in time, but the rest won't jump back in price. Mutavault in particular will drop like a rock and is easily the worst financial decision to make at this time.

As to what is going to be viable post M15, it's impossible to say. My gut says you could be safe with Esper Control if you want to for sure play control until at least Khans and mono-black is still going to be dominant until then too.

Thanks. This is helpful. I am looking up Esper Control now and I'm wondering just how essential Mutavault is to the deck? Would the deck lose a lot of its power if I substitute it with something else?

And why would Mutavault plunge in value once rotation occurs? Is it completely outclassed by a similar card in Modern?

Adding up the the cost for an Esper Control deck, it seems a bit more pricey than what I was initially expecting. The lands and Elspeth adds up to quite a bit. Sphinx Revelation as well.

Finally, just a quick question regarding card legality. If I own the M14 version of a card but that card is also in the M15 Core, will my M14 version of the card be illegal in Standard once rotation occurs?
 

kirblar

Member
Don't buy a box of M15. The set has no value in it. Use the cash to buy singles instead. (Getting a base of /Scry/Confluences/Enemy Painlands would be a good idea, the painlands especially are going to be super cheap if you buy online.)

Mutavauult will drop because demand will drop. It'll go back up over time though, since liquidity will slowly dry up as it disappears from trade binders.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Thanks. This is helpful. I am looking up Esper Control now and I'm wondering just how essential Mutavault is to the deck? Would the deck lose a lot of its power if I substitute it with something else?

And why would Mutavault plunge in value once rotation occurs? Is it completely outclassed by a similar card in Modern?

Adding up the the cost for an Esper Control deck, it seems a bit more pricey than what I was initially expecting. The lands and Elspeth adds up to quite a bit. Sphinx Revelation as well.

Finally, just a quick question regarding card legality. If I own the M14 version of a card but that card is also in the M15 Core, will my M14 version of the card be illegal in Standard once rotation occurs?
Mutavault isn't in M15, so as soon as Khans comes in they're no longer playable
 
Thanks. This is helpful. I am looking up Esper Control now and I'm wondering just how essential Mutavault is to the deck? Would the deck lose a lot of its power if I substitute it with something else?

And why would Mutavault plunge in value once rotation occurs? Is it completely outclassed by a similar card in Modern?

Adding up the the cost for an Esper Control deck, it seems a bit more pricey than what I was initially expecting. The lands and Elspeth adds up to quite a bit. Sphinx Revelation as well.

Finally, just a quick question regarding card legality. If I own the M14 version of a card but that card is also in the M15 Core, will my M14 version of the card be illegal in Standard once rotation occurs?

Mutavault is big in UW control, not so much Esper. I run 0 Mutavaults and still win tournaments with my Esper control deck.
 
Thanks. This is helpful. I am looking up Esper Control now and I'm wondering just how essential Mutavault is to the deck? Would the deck lose a lot of its power if I substitute it with something else?

And why would Mutavault plunge in value once rotation occurs? Is it completely outclassed by a similar card in Modern?

I don't play much standard these days, but Mutavault is a versatile card that can function as a win condition in a deck like Esper which has relatively few of those as well as operate defensively when needed. Being that you'll be playing the deck just until rotation, you should be fine running without. In fact, you'll get a boost of better mana since you're playing 3 colors and don't have to run a colorless land. It's a lesser benefit than having a land to attack and block with, but it's something.

Mutavault is a good modern card as well, but only fits into a few archetypes. It isn't nearly as ubiquitous there as in current standard. Demand will drop for them when rotation comes. That said, the price has already fallen a bit in the last few months and I'd be surprised if it completely flat-lined. They will probably go down to $12-15 from the current $20-25.

Adding up the the cost for an Esper Control deck, it seems a bit more pricey than what I was initially expecting. The lands and Elspeth adds up to quite a bit. Sphinx Revelation as well.

Sphinx's Revelation is an unfortunate card to have to buy into, because it is a pretty essential component of your deck and these will also lose a lot of value at rotation. Elspeth is safe. She's likely to be a finisher in control decks of some kind and maintain value for the next year You'll be able to trade them for something else if you decide you're through with Esper.

Finally, just a quick question regarding card legality. If I own the M14 version of a card but that card is also in the M15 Core, will my M14 version of the card be illegal in Standard once rotation occurs?

You can still use the M14 version. As long as the card is legal in some form, you're good!
 

ElyrionX

Member
Don't buy a box of M15. The set has no value in it. Use the cash to buy singles instead. (Getting a base of /Scry/Confluences/Enemy Painlands would be a good idea, the painlands especially are going to be super cheap if you buy online.)

Mutavauult will drop because demand will drop. It'll go back up over time though, since liquidity will slowly dry up as it disappears from trade binders.

I am only buying the boxes because I need to build up my card pool to play with the girlfriend on a casual basis. She enjoys deck construction and is not keen on netdecking.

Mutavault isn't in M15, so as soon as Khans comes in they're no longer playable

Oh I was asking that question in general not specifically referring to any cards. As in, will a card with the M14 symbol be playable next year if the same card was reprinted in M15? Or do I need to buy a M15 version if that card to play it in Standard?

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";119890891]Mutavault is big in UW control, not so much Esper. I run 0 Mutavaults and still win tournaments with my Esper control deck.[/QUOTE]

May I have a look at your deck list please?
 

kirblar

Member
I am only buying the boxes because I need to build up my card pool to play with the girlfriend on a casual basis. She enjoys deck construction and is not keen on netdecking.
Ah, ok. Definitely get as much of the standard manabase done before rotation as you can, though. Scrylands will jump.
 
May I have a look at your deck list please?

Instant (14)
  • 4x Sphinx's Revelation
  • 4x Dissolve
  • 2x Syncopate
  • 2x Last Breath
  • 2x Ultimate Price

Sorcery (7)
  • 4x Supreme Verdict
  • 3x Thoughtseize

Enchantment (5)
  • 1x Banishing Light
  • 4x Detention Sphere

Planeswalker (6)
  • 2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
  • 4x Jace, Architect of Thought

Creature (1)
  • 1x AEtherling

Land (27)
  • 2x Godless Shrine
  • 2x Watery Grave
  • 3x Hallowed Fountain
  • 6x Island
  • 2x Plains
  • 4x Temple of Deceit
  • 4x Temple of Enlightenment
  • 4x Temple of Silence


Sideboard (15)
  • 1x Obzedat, Ghost Council
  • 4x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
  • 2x Fiendslayer Paladin
  • 2x Nightveil Specter
  • 1x Dispel
  • 2x Negate
  • 1x Gainsay
  • 1x Pithing Needle

Although I imagine it's going to change a bit after m15. Not sure yet.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Oh I was asking that question in general not specifically referring to any cards. As in, will a card with the M14 symbol be playable next year if the same card was reprinted in M15? Or do I need to buy a M15 version if that card to play it in Standard?

Oh no, if a card is reprinted you're fine. As far as the game is concerned any card that has the same name is the same card, no matter when it was printed. Your deck could have cards from 10 years ago if they were reprinted in a Standard legal set
 
Release notes. Confirmation that The Chain Veil's ability can be activated multiple times, each time giving Planeswalkers new activations, if you untap it, and that Generator Servant can give two creatures haste, for those still wondering.

MaRo's still salty about hornets (kidding, I do see his point about color bleed).

And I am pleasantly surprised by the card selection in the Clash Packs.
 
Oh no, if a card is reprinted you're fine. As far as the game is concerned any card that has the same name is the same card, no matter when it was printed. Your deck could have cards from 10 years ago if they were reprinted in a Standard legal set

With the exception of artists proofs, but you can probably still get away with it. I have a signed Island proof by Peter Mohrbacher in my deck for good luck.
 

bigkrev

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";119894809]With the exception of artists proofs, but you can probably still get away with it. I have a signed Island proof by Peter Mohrbacher in my deck for good luck.[/QUOTE]

I would recommend not doing that in a sanctioned tournament if you don't want to risk a DQ/Ban
 

OnPoint

Member
I'm super confused by MaRo here.

EN_za3j014f0l.png


Heliod's Pilgrim is a great example.
For all intents and purposes, this card could have been in any of the Theros-blocksets.
Heliod's Pilgrim, in particular, is cool because it plays so well with bestow creatures.

You can use it to go get bestow creatures...?
 
White bees? That would suck.

I don't know, something like this would be pretty reasonable:

Defending Bee - 1W
Creature - Insect
Flying
Sacrifice Defending Bee: Deal 1 damage to target attacking creature.
1/1

EDIT:
I'm super confused by MaRo here.

You can use it to go get bestow creatures...?

He gets confused sometimes. The release notes specifically say that it can't retrieve bestow creatures, since they aren't auras outside of the battlefield.
 

ultron87

Member
It probably could fetch them during design playtesting but development made it not do that at some point and he didn't notice.
 
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";119894809]With the exception of artists proofs, but you can probably still get away with it. I have a signed Island proof by Peter Mohrbacher in my deck for good luck.[/QUOTE]

That's dedication. He was at GP Phoenix and has the ugliest signature I've ever seen from a professional artist.
 

noquarter

Member
Well, P9 has been dropping on MTGO. Thinking I might buy soon, as Lotus is at ~$150 and Moxes are ~$65, except Sapphire. Most everything else is pretty low as well. FoW though, still doesn't want to go below $25 very consistently.

Also been trying a Modern Zombie deck on MTGO. It's alright, but some people on there are just assholes, and looks like they only want to play against T1 decks (random Jund dude that quit after game one, thanks for letting me sideboard.)
 

red13th

Member
Watching LSV playing Vintage (some sort of Fastbond Gush deck) on ChannelFireball's YouTube channel, it's a hilarious format.
 

suffah

Does maths and stuff
Well, P9 has been dropping on MTGO. Thinking I might buy soon, as Lotus is at ~$150 and Moxes are ~$65, except Sapphire. Most everything else is pretty low as well. FoW though, still doesn't want to go below $25 very consistently.

Also been trying a Modern Zombie deck on MTGO. It's alright, but some people on there are just assholes, and looks like they only want to play against T1 decks (random Jund dude that quit after game one, thanks for letting me sideboard.)

I've picked up everything except Twister and Black Lotus at this point. I feel the Lotus will continue to dip. Not sure if I want Twister since it'll never see play.
 

rCIZZLE

Member
Why does M15 prerelease have to be this weekend? Don't feel like missing the entire top 32 to top 8 of Ultra SF4 at EVO by going to the midnight prerelease. First one I won't be going to in like 3 years.
 

noquarter

Member
I've picked up everything except Twister and Black Lotus at this point. I feel the Lotus will continue to dip. Not sure if I want Twister since it'll never see play.

You can't settle on Power 8. Come on.
You got to get the last one. You never know, you might want to play a Storm deck sometime.
Why does M15 prerelease have to be this weekend? Don't feel like missing the entire top 32 to top 8 of Ultra SF4 at EVO by going to the midnight prerelease. First one I won't be going to in like 3 years.

I haven't been since probably RTR. Places were getting to crowded and I would get to cranky.
 

Crocodile

Member
Clash packs look pretty neat. Font of Fertility as a promo choice is weird as fuck (who wants that card?), especially with a Courser in the list.

Why does M15 prerelease have to be this weekend? Don't feel like missing the entire top 32 to top 8 of Ultra SF4 at EVO by going to the midnight prerelease. First one I won't be going to in like 3 years.

Obviously it depends on your preferences but playing games > watching other people play games IMO :p
 

ElyrionX

Member
Thanks for all the replies yesterday guys. It was helpful. I'm still finalizing the deck I'll be buying. Will probably pick up the deck tomorrow at a LGS.


I don't play much standard these days, but Mutavault is a versatile card that can function as a win condition in a deck like Esper which has relatively few of those as well as operate defensively when needed. Being that you'll be playing the deck just until rotation, you should be fine running without. In fact, you'll get a boost of better mana since you're playing 3 colors and don't have to run a colorless land. It's a lesser benefit than having a land to attack and block with, but it's something.

Mutavault is a good modern card as well, but only fits into a few archetypes. It isn't nearly as ubiquitous there as in current standard. Demand will drop for them when rotation comes. That said, the price has already fallen a bit in the last few months and I'd be surprised if it completely flat-lined. They will probably go down to $12-15 from the current $20-25.



Sphinx's Revelation is an unfortunate card to have to buy into, because it is a pretty essential component of your deck and these will also lose a lot of value at rotation. Elspeth is safe. She's likely to be a finisher in control decks of some kind and maintain value for the next year You'll be able to trade them for something else if you decide you're through with Esper.



You can still use the M14 version. As long as the card is legal in some form, you're good!

I'm still considering Mutavault but I think I will probably pick up two of it if I can find them at a reasonable price. Sphinx's price is a bit lower than I thought after I checked with some shops around here so it's not too big of a deal I guess.
 

ElyrionX

Member
Buy deckbuilders toolkit instead, or buy bulk magic cards Never buy boxes unless you either intend to draft it, or like lighting money on fire.

I have the M14 deckbuilders toolkit. I'm not from the US so I'm not going to use SCG for now. Spoke to a guy at a LGS today and he said he can probably do something similar for me. Maybe I'll pick that up. Or maybe I'll get the M15 deckbuilders toolkit, the clash pack and a couple of intro packs and see what that does for my pool.

The problem with my pool (which I am using for casual play) right now is that it consists of mainly cards from the Theros set and some cards from the M14 toolkit, two intro packs and some booster packs from BNG and JOU. So there is a distinct lack of both card variety and playsets. I'm not so sure what is the best way to approach it.
 
Why does M15 prerelease have to be this weekend? Don't feel like missing the entire top 32 to top 8 of Ultra SF4 at EVO by going to the midnight prerelease. First one I won't be going to in like 3 years.

I feel this, as much as I'd like to play in the prerelease, EVO is a much higher priority for me. :)
 

ElyrionX

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";119893273]Instant (14)
  • 4x Sphinx's Revelation
  • 4x Dissolve
  • 2x Syncopate
  • 2x Last Breath
  • 2x Ultimate Price

Sorcery (7)
  • 4x Supreme Verdict
  • 3x Thoughtseize

Enchantment (5)
  • 1x Banishing Light
  • 4x Detention Sphere

Planeswalker (6)
  • 2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
  • 4x Jace, Architect of Thought

Creature (1)
  • 1x AEtherling

Land (27)
  • 2x Godless Shrine
  • 2x Watery Grave
  • 3x Hallowed Fountain
  • 6x Island
  • 2x Plains
  • 4x Temple of Deceit
  • 4x Temple of Enlightenment
  • 4x Temple of Silence


Sideboard (15)
  • 1x Obzedat, Ghost Council
  • 4x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
  • 2x Fiendslayer Paladin
  • 2x Nightveil Specter
  • 1x Dispel
  • 2x Negate
  • 1x Gainsay
  • 1x Pithing Needle

Although I imagine it's going to change a bit after m15. Not sure yet.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. I have been looking through this.

Ultimate Price over Doom Blade is an interesting choice. Did you pick that because of the strength of mono-Black in Standard right now?

Given what you have, cost is obviously not a factor when you did not pick Mutavault. Instead you went for two more shocklands. How is that working out for you?

EDIT: Also Thoughtseize doesn't seem to be too commonly used in the maindeck of Esper control. Any idea why?
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Thanks. I have been looking through this.

Ultimate Price over Doom Blade is an interesting choice. Did you pick that because of the strength of mono-Black in Standard right now?

Given what you have, cost is obviously not a factor when you did not pick Mutavault. Instead you went for two more shocklands. How is that working out for you?

EDIT: Also Thoughtseize doesn't seem to be too commonly used in the maindeck of Esper control. Any idea why?

Hm. I don't know what decklists you're looking, but Thoughtseize is the lynchpin of Esper Control. The deck absolutely needs it, unless you're rolling with a budget list. Check out this site for what's being used in the major tourneys. http://www.mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=197&meta=52&f=ST

EDIT: Of course, the Grand Prix deck didn't run them...so...uh. Nah. You still want 'em. lol
 

ElyrionX

Member
Yeah, I was looking at the Grand Prix decks and other Esper Control decks on mtgdecks.net.

Do dual mana costs on cards like Nightveil Specter count towards devotion?
 
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