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Magic: The Gathering |OT3| Enchantment Under the Siege

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Firemind

Member
Wow. I didn't know PPTQs start this month. There's a PTQ Brussels and a PPTQ Vancouver on the same day... and the PPTQ starts after round three. Awkward...

Whatcha guys been playing? What should I play as a total noob of the current standard? And what actually beats Sidisi Whip?
 
Wow. I didn't know PPTQs start this month. There's a PTQ Brussels and a PPTQ Vancouver on the same day... and the PPTQ starts after round three. Awkward...

Whatcha guys been playing? What should I play as a total noob of the current standard? And what actually beats Sidisi Whip?

Jeskai tokens beats it, literally out of nowhere. Also, if you want to play abzan, it needs to include anafenza to deal with whip strategies. Fast and flying is also preferable, because sultai can clog up the ground early, but it takes a while to actually kill.
 
Just played my final cube draft before it goes away. I drafted a reasonable but not completely nutso Esper Control deck:

P6sj8ub.jpg


I had an annoying misclick and somehow ended up with a Visara instead of a Day of Judgement near the end of pack three. I have no idea how that happened.

Round one I faced a dreadful matchup. Mono black with a splash of green, featuring Inquisition, Hymn, Recurring Nightmare, Wasteland, Volrath's Stronghold, Dark Confidant, Phyrexian Arena, and Sylvan Library. I took him to three games; I ended up losing game three to the clock because my daughter was begging me to read her a bedtime story - and let's face it, a win and a few more phantom points aren't worth that. I think I can take 8 minutes off my clock in most matchups and still win, but not when my opponent is so capable of drawing out the game and playing as long as that deck can.

I smashed rounds two and three.

I got to ultimate Venser in two different games. Venser bouncing himself and/or an Elspeth prior to an Upheaval is so, so great.

Yet another 2-1. I drafted this cube 16 times. 15 2-1s, 1 1-2. I'm not overjoyed with that performance or anything, but hey - it's some good value.
 
I just find it funny they're like "swords are OP we can't make that!" but its not like Maro wasn't on the team at the time Scars block came out. Its partially that kind of thing that makes people take Maro less seriously - he'll act like something was a colossal mistake that they can never do again but Scars block wasn't long enough ago for that to be necessarily believable.

I don't think this is hard to believe. When they started Scars of Mirrodin, they wanted to bring back the swords since they were a great nostalgia hit and they figured that three overpowered but not Jitte/Skullclamp-level equipments wouldn't ruin anything -- then Caw-Blade happened and made everyone fucking miserable.

Are they trying to slowly phase out protection from colours? Can't remember the last card that has protection that isn't mythic.

Yes, they have said that landwalk, protection, regeneration, and intimidate will all probably go away when they have reasonable replacements, and they've teased that a new evergreen keyword will appear (and probably replace one of these) in the next couple years.

I still say that the enemy fetchlands will be printed in Dragons of Tarkir, and the ally painlands will be printed in M16

I agree with the former but not the latter. You print fetches because they're good and everyone loves them; you print painlands in M15 as a really specific narrow solution to help out a format that's relying on Scrylands.
 

Crocodile

Member
I wish WOTC could be a bit more bold with equipment. There's room to make awesome equipment that isn't Sword of ______/Batterskull good. Every other piece of equipment since then has basically been garage outside of limited.

Are they trying to slowly phase out protection from colours? Can't remember the last card that has protection that isn't mythic.

Spectra Ward and Feat of Resistance grant it and Miscutter Hydra is only a rare. But yeah, it has been used less often recently.
 
Yes, they have said that landwalk, protection, regeneration, and intimidate will all probably go away when they have reasonable replacements, and they've teased that a new evergreen keyword will appear (and probably replace one of these) in the next couple years.
If this post is what you are referring to, then the new keyword being teased was explicitly stated to be a replacement for intimidate or landwalk.

Concerning regeneration, it seems like it would be the most difficult of that set to replace. Activated indestructibility has the problem that if a creature is charging toward you with it, could potentially finish you, you have no blockers, and you have a Doom Blade in your hand, there's nothing you can do. With regeneration, it has a built-in weakness that allows for cards like Doom Blade to not necessarily be dead in your hand. Besides, activated indestructibility would surely be costed much higher than regeneration.

Plus, there is the big flavor problem with using indestructibility instead of regeneration. Skeletons don't become indestructible for a bit, they reassemble! And so on.

The issue with creating another ability with similar flavor is that while you could potentially make the after-effects of regeneration simpler (though doing so means removing weaknesses that allow it to be costed as cheap as it often is) the big problem people have is with the idea that regeneration can be activated well before death, and it puts up a "shield" around the creature. A solution to that has to be able to keep all of the +1/+1 counters and such on the creature, and not trigger enters the battlefield effects, if you want to keep the idea that the creature didn't actually die. Plus, you may not want this new ability to allow creatures to come back after being sacrificed. I can't think of any way to word a regeneration-like ability that fills those needs that isn't activated before the creature actually dies, that wouldn't be even more confusing than regeneration.

"When this creature dies, pay X. If you do, return it to the battlefield with all permanents and counters still attached to the creature. Permanents entering the battlefield this way do not cause abilities to trigger."

I agree with the former but not the latter. You print fetches because they're good and everyone loves them; you print painlands in M15 as a really specific narrow solution to help out a format that's relying on Scrylands.
The way I see it:
1. Every block is going to have a set of 10 dual lands.
2. Standard after M16 will be Theros block - M15 - Khans block - M16. The dual land cycles will be scry lands - enemy painlands - ally fetchlands then ?1 - ?2. Given (1), then ?1 is going to be a set of enemy lands, and they are probably going to be the enemy fetchlands.
3. Standard after Tears will be Dragons of Tarkir+M16 block - Blood block - Tears set. If we assume (1), then DTK+M16 will have a dual land for every color pair. Given this, ?1 will probably be in DTK, which I decided would probably be enemy fetchlands in (2). So, ?2 in M16 will probably be ally-colored dual lands.
4. Going back to (2), the dual land cycles will probably be scry lands - enemy painlands - fetchlands - ?2. Whatever ?2 is, that cycle will almost surely not be continued by the Blood block, which would likely have a cycle of its own. It is possible that M16 will have a different set of ally lands, such as the M10+ checklands, but for the sake of pattern completion, I'm going to guess that it will have the ally painlands.
5. Besides, the painlands have Dominaria-specific names. M16 will be their last chance to reprint them in Standard until Return to Dominaria, whenever that is.

In short, my point is that M16 will almost surely have ally dual lands, and I just have a feeling that they will be the ally painlands.
 
So I've been trying to hold on to most of my taplands from Khans draft so I could see what kind of bias I'm working with in terms of archetypes:
(sorry about the massive picture, posting from my phone and can't resize)


Even noting that I don't really take lands when I'm forcing UR Tempo, apparently I really love drafting Sultai lol


I tend to pick the off-color lands, so I wind up trying to get blue cards then taking the BG lands for the double-splash. Also why I have more UW lands than UR, if I need duals in the tempo deck, it's to splash white.


So basically unless I get a good rare, all my drafts start out by me trying to find a good blue card.
 
If this post is what you are referring to, then the new keyword being teased was explicitly stated to be a replacement for intimidate or landwalk.

I was thinking of this one, actually.

Concerning regeneration, it seems like it would be the most difficult of that set to replace.

I don't think so. The problem with regeneration isn't really that the gameplay is poor, it's that it's awkwardly complex and the way you play it doesn't fit well with the name. You could definitely create some kind of "if this creature would die, instead remove all damage from it" replacement ability that'd be a simpler equivalent.

It is possible that M16 will have a different set of ally lands, such as the M10+ checklands, but for the sake of pattern completion, I'm going to guess that it will have the ally painlands.

Right, this is the place I think it breaks down. Nobody (approximately) cares that much about pattern completion here since painlands aren't popular and they can be had for like $2 apiece. M16 won't have the same kind of issues with finding lands that encourage aggro that M15 did, so there'll be room to use a land cycle that'll be a little more appealing. (Especially since M16 will be the last ever core set and therefore will assuredly be designed around going out with a bang.)
 
So my roommate and I traded gifts! He got me one excellent Gundam model I wanted, and he got a Gundam model and the Magic gift set. Holy crap, was he excited to open up some packs! lol
I don't know what he got out of the packs, but he was building up his deck as soon as he finished. Hopefully that means he's happy with them. lol We dueled after he finished and I ended up beating him twice with my stock deck. >.>

Also, went to an anime club and got to play with someone that was like, a pro at Magic. He let me use one of his decks and I learned a TON! My favorite thing is the Planeswalker mechanic. Way too cool. Is there any Planeswalker that goes well with the Cunning deck?
Losing like, three times taught me more techniques than I could have ever dreamed of, and I can't wait to play some more.
 
So my roommate and I traded gifts! He got me one excellent Gundam model I wanted, and he got a Gundam model and the Magic gift set. Holy crap, was he excited to open up some packs! lol
I don't know what he got out of the packs, but he was building up his deck as soon as he finished. Hopefully that means he's happy with them. lol We dueled after he finished and I ended up beating him twice with my stock deck. >.>

Also, went to an anime club and got to play with someone that was like, a pro at Magic. He let me use one of his decks and I learned a TON! My favorite thing is the Planeswalker mechanic. Way too cool. Is there any Planeswalker that goes well with the Cunning deck?
Losing like, three times taught me more techniques than I could have ever dreamed of, and I can't wait to play some more.
Chandra Pyromaster is a great choice that lets you burn stuff and get extra cards.
 

f0rk

Member
Jeskai tokens beats it, literally out of nowhere. Also, if you want to play abzan, it needs to include anafenza to deal with whip strategies. Fast and flying is also preferable, because sultai can clog up the ground early, but it takes a while to actually kill.
Back to herald of torment then?
 

Firemind

Member
Jeskai tokens beats it, literally out of nowhere. Also, if you want to play abzan, it needs to include anafenza to deal with whip strategies. Fast and flying is also preferable, because sultai can clog up the ground early, but it takes a while to actually kill.

Really? Because Shahar won 3-1 against Yuuya who was piloting Jeskai tokens.
 
That's the one I was using! I like the art~

Oh, quick question. What does "tap permanent" mean?
I kinda like the Moon Sage. Looks pretty fun to use.

Let's you tap (turn sideways) a permanent (usually, it'll be an artifact, creature, or land, but you could also target an enchantment or planeswalker) on the battlefield. Examples of use could be tapping a creature to stop it from blocking, tapping an artifact to stop it from use, etc.
 

OnPoint

Member
Right, this is the place I think it breaks down. Nobody (approximately) cares that much about pattern completion here since painlands aren't popular and they can be had for like $2 apiece. M16 won't have the same kind of issues with finding lands that encourage aggro that M15 did, so there'll be room to use a land cycle that'll be a little more appealing. (Especially since M16 will be the last ever core set and therefore will assuredly be designed around going out with a bang.)

I'd love it if they used M16 to reprint the filter lands. The full set of 10. They've been in need of printing those for a while. Either those or the Man-lands. I'd be shocked if they put in the allied pain lands.

Anyone who thinks they aren't printing the enemy fetches in Dragons care to explain why? It would fit the time travel aspect of the story well (they're going to come back and things are going to be different) and it would complete the cycle in-block, which they've stated they're going to do from now on. It just makes too much sense, and since they're trying to boost modern as a format, this would help. The more Tarns out there the more Treasure Cruises people can go on.

M16 better be the celebration we didn't get on the 20th anniversary.
 

Kerrinck

Member
Finally learned that I can look at my opponent's sb when I mindslave them.
As a U Tron player, this is mind blown material for me.
 
Finally learned that I can look at my opponent's sb when I mindslave them.
As a U Tron player, this is mind blown material for me.

I love Mindslaver. There are so many awful things that you can make someone do to themselves.

Although I hate that the Mindslaver lock isn't a guaranteed victory on MODO since it takes basically your entire timer to mill them out.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't think this is hard to believe. When they started Scars of Mirrodin, they wanted to bring back the swords since they were a great nostalgia hit and they figured that three overpowered but not Jitte/Skullclamp-level equipments wouldn't ruin anything -- then Caw-Blade happened and made everyone fucking miserable.

Maybe I'm not understanding you, but if they print something obviously overpowered just for nostalgia, then yeah, I don't quite buy that Maro's legitimately of the mind that "we can never print that again because its too overpowered."
 

Yeef

Member
Maybe I'm not understanding you, but if they print something obviously overpowered just for nostalgia, then yeah, I don't quite buy that Maro's legitimately of the mind that "we can never print that again because its too overpowered."
It's simple. The swords are more powerful than they want standard to be these days. If they were to do a new cycle, that cycle would have to be weaker if it was in standard, which would be a let down. The other option, of course, is to throw them into a supplemental set like Commander, but then they wouldn't be legal in Modern.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
The game needs more swords and shields. They spend a bit too much time running away from some cool shit they could be doing, in my opinion. More rings too.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It's simple. The swords are more powerful than they want standard to be these days. If they were to do a new cycle, that cycle would have to be weaker if it was in standard, which would be a let down. The other option, of course, is to throw them into a supplemental set like Commander, but then they wouldn't be legal in Modern.

The swords are more powerful than what they wanted then, too. Scars block wasn't a very long time ago.
 

OnPoint

Member
The game needs more swords and shields. They spend a bit too much time running away from some cool shit they could be doing, in my opinion. More rings too.
I agree. They so often run away from good things because they got them 'wrong' the first time. It's a damn shame.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I find it hard to believe in general they weren't aware that +2/+2, protection from black/green, on damage untap all your lands and opponent discards a card wasn't dumb-levels of overpowered when they printed it.

Let's be fair: when you look at that list, maybe they shouldn't print that shit again. But Scars block wasn't Urza block where they were sitting on a history of shit cards and shit blocks preceding it.
 

ultron87

Member
We need more things that go on heads. Gotta keep the Skullclamp, Cranial Plating and Batterskull tradition alive. For pattern completion we just need a really good 3 drop and 4 drop head equipment.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Also, how powerful could they actually be if they're not seeing any play in any eternal format? I mean, Batterskull outclassed every single one of those.
 

Firemind

Member
They already made The One Ring.


Equipments are dumb anyway since dragons can't equip them. It'd just destroy my suspension of disbelief to see a dragon swinging a sword. So if anyone wants to troll me, equip Lightning Greaves to a creature with no feet and I'll tell you a number of reasons why it's not possible.
 
They already made The One Ring.



Equipments are dumb anyway since dragons can't equip them. It'd just destroy my suspension of disbelief to see a dragon swinging a sword. So if anyone wants to troll me, equip Lightning Greaves to a creature with no feet and I'll tell you a number of reasons why it's not possible.

There's also this card.
Image.ashx


As for the second part, Wizards actually calls this the "Elephant in Boots Problem", though I would think many other creatures better demonstrate this.

On a related note, something I get a feeling about from Blogatog is that the next Un-set, when it happens, may have reprints of black border cards mixed in to be more appealing. It would be neat if, say, a reprint of Lightning Greaves depicted an ooze wearing it by absorbing it inside itself, or a reprint of Arrest depicted a squid getting all of its tentacles handcuffed.
 
There's a dearth of ranged weapons. I think the only one that ever actually saw play was Mortarpod, but that's mostly because you were looking for a sac outlet. I want to see a badass Bow to rival the Swords. :)
 

ultron87

Member
The problem with ranged weapons is that it makes flavor sense for bows to let creatures ping stuff, which means it is an effect that really shouldn't be colorless (unless it is really expensive).
 
The problem with ranged weapons is that it makes flavor sense for bows to let creatures ping stuff, which means it is an effect that really shouldn't be colorless (unless it is really expensive).

I don't buy that; color pie states that blue shouldn't be able to buff power/toughness simultaneously, yet equipment does that for colorless, cheaply, all the time.
 
I'm still waiting for Jeskai Stonethrone to break out in Legacy.

Tutor up dragon throne with the mystic, stick it on TNN and buff your Pyromancer tokens.

Unbeatable.
 
There's a dearth of ranged weapons. I think the only one that ever actually saw play was Mortarpod, but that's mostly because you were looking for a sac outlet. I want to see a badass Bow to rival the Swords. :)

Well, this card was printed just this set.
Image.ashx


Anyway, going back to the topic of regeneration, it occurs to me that a big point of confusion is the fact that "regenerate target creature" and "this creature regenerates" mean two different things, and the former has an "until end of turn" effect hidden inside it. It seems like an easy way to make it less confusing would be to remove the first meaning of "regenerate" and write it out in terms of the latter. So "regenerate target creature" becomes "The next time target creature would be destroyed this turn, it regenerates."

So Cudgel Troll would be:

Cudgel Troll - 2GG
Creature - Troll
G: The next time Cudgel Troll would be destroyed this turn, it regenerates. (This creature doesn't get destroyed. Instead tap it, remove all damage from it, and remove it from combat.)
4/3
 

kirblar

Member
If Regeration worked like Knight of the Holy Nimbus it'd be a massive functionality upgrade. (Regenration one-shot effect would get the "next time it's destroyed, regenerate" wording.
 
If Regeration worked like Knight of the Holy Nimbus it'd be a massive functionality upgrade. (Regenration one-shot effect would get the "next time it's destroyed, regenerate" wording.

... But I did write out "next time". Unless you're saying this as a non sequitur.
 
My version works differently on Cudgel Troll.

The next time Cudgel Troll would be destroyed this turn, it regenerates.
vs.
"next time it's destroyed, regenerate"
Which I assume would be expanded to
The next time Cudgel Troll is destroyed this turn, it regenerates instead.

How is that functionally different?
 

kirblar

Member
The next time Cudgel Troll would be destroyed this turn, it regenerates.
vs.
"next time it's destroyed, regenerate"
Which I assume would be expanded to
The next time Cudgel Troll is destroyed this turn, it regenerates instead.

How is that functionally different?
Knight of the Holy Nimbus has a "pay on destroy" clause. My version is much closer to the original one where you don't have to pre-pay.
 
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