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[Lucario]

Was wondering what happened if you Manifested a double-faced card, and apparently (according to Tabak), it just comes in as a 2/2.

http://tabakrules.tumblr.com/post/106521212184/what-happens-if-you-manifest-the-top-card-of-your

The previous ruling for cards like Ixidron still applies; if a double-faced card is already on the battlefield, you ignore effects that would turn it face-down as a morph.

 

[kirblar]

Was wondering what happened if you Manifested a double-faced card, and apparently (according to Tabak), it just comes in as a 2/2.

http://tabakrules.tumblr.com/post/106521212184/what-happens-if-you-manifest-the-top-card-of-your

The previous ruling for cards like Ixidron still applies; if a double-faced card is already on the battlefield, you ignore effects that would turn it face-down as a morph.

We've entered "We assume you have sleeves" territory.

 

[The Technomancer]

We've entered "We assume you have sleeves" territory.

Hm? Not really. You wouldn't have a raw double faced card in an unsleeved deck anyway, that was what the whole proxy snafu was about on first release

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Yeah, my assumption is that you would just put the checklist card onto the battlefield face down.

 

[kirblar]

Yeah, my assumption is that you would just put the checklist card onto the battlefield face down.

I forgot people used those outside of limited.

 

[red13th]

I don't think there is another way of playing a double-faced card without sleeves outside of the checklist

 

[Firemind]

This is getting too complicated for my feeble mind to comprehend.

 

[The Technomancer]

I don't think there is another way of playing a double-faced card without sleeves outside of the checklist

Basically

 

[Toxi]

I don't think there is another way of playing a double-faced card without sleeves outside of the checklist

If you're not playing in a tournament, there's always just writing the card's name on a land or some other cheap card.

 

[f0rk]

Was wondering what happened if you Manifested a double-faced card, and apparently (according to Tabak), it just comes in as a 2/2.

http://tabakrules.tumblr.com/post/106521212184/what-happens-if-you-manifest-the-top-card-of-your

The previous ruling for cards like Ixidron still applies; if a double-faced card is already on the battlefield, you ignore effects that would turn it face-down as a morph.

So wizards have made 3 sided cards, amazing. No wonder R&D gets all the money

 

[kirblar]

So wizards have made 3 sided cards, amazing. No wonder R&D gets all the money

They're a thing in DuelMasters.

They unfold.

 

[Toxi]

Taurean Mauler and Mutavault are dragons.

Yesssssssss

 

[red13th]

lol Channel is so ridiculous. I had a 4E Channel when I was a kid, pretty crazy to think that a card like that went all the way to 4E.

EDIT: damn this series is hilarious. this game his opponent Flickerwisps his Accorder Paladin with his own Containment Priest on the board (bye Paladin!), then LSV

Spoiler

Memory Jars + LEDs into Regrowth for Tendrils with enough storm count for a kill, and also draws Tezz + Time Vault off the Jar, with enough mana to cast them

, so damn broken.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

lol Channel is so ridiculous. I had a 4E Channel when I was a kid, pretty crazy to think that a card like that went all the way to 4E.

EDIT: damn this series is hilarious. this game his opponent Flickerwisps his Accorder Paladin with his own Containment Priest on the board (bye Paladin!), then LSV

Spoiler

Memory Jars + LEDs into Regrowth for Tendrils with enough storm count for a kill, and also draws Tezz + Time Vault off the Jar, with enough mana to cast them

, so damn broken.

Two days ago, LSV was streaming another Holiday Cube where he Ponders for a lethal Tendrils, tells MTGO not to shuffle his deck, and it shuffles anyway. You got to see the very rare "Angry LSV" in that moment.

 

[red13th]

Two days ago, LSV was streaming another Holiday Cube where he Ponders for a lethal Tendrils, tells MTGO not to shuffle his deck, and it shuffles anyway. You got to see the very rare "Angry LSV" in that moment.

LSV is the most fun player to watch playing Modo, never saw him angry though.

on a unrelated note, I want Gemstone Mine and Avalanche Riders in MM2 because they don't have a modern framed version and therefore I can't put them in my cube. :/
Black bordered Savannah Lions and Wildfire would be nice too.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Confirmed that Fate Reforged is pre-Mending. I'm not sure where people got the 1280 years ago number, but other posts confirmed that's officially how long ago Fate Reforged takes place.

If Sarkhan is travelling 1280 years back in time, is he reaching a pre-Mending moment in time? (in other words: when Bolas and Ugin duked it out beetween themselves, were they the god-like planeswalkers of old?)
andromeda-mini

Yes, Fate Reforged takes place before the Mending. Ugin and Bolas were both pre-Mending planeswalkers at that time.

(During the events of the Time Spiral Block, a bunch of planeswalkers used powerful magic to seal Multiverse-threatening rifts — an event called the Mending. The Mending caused a fundamental change to the nature of the spark, leading to the modern era of very powerful, but not immortal or godlike*, planeswalkers.)

(*Caveats apply, of course. Since the Mending, some planeswalkers have sought out magical means to extend their life and/or power, such as Liliana or Xenagos. There are always exceptions when it comes to magic. And Magic.)

#planeswalkers #sarkhan #the mending #ugin #nicol bolas #have I tagged everybody? #ok good #I think I used to use the #caveats apply #tag more often #so many exceptions and counterexamples in a game with Magic's span of worlds and cards #I hope we get to see some of the Ugin-Bolas interaction in fiction form #because dang

 

[Crocodile]

A) The "1280 years ago" is from Ken Nagle's article.

B) Manifest seems kind of awesome but also RIPE for cheating O_O Definitely a mechanic that couldn't be printed without the Morph and Manifest marker tokens. I don't envy the work judges have cut out for them. I do hope Morph proper comes back for Dragons of Tarkir though.

Two days ago, LSV was streaming another Holiday Cube where he Ponders for a lethal Tendrils, tells MTGO not to shuffle his deck, and it shuffles anyway. You got to see the very rare "Angry LSV" in that moment.

Yeah I saw twitter yesterday any my feed was a Sea of Rage. Link to when it happened BTW?

 

[kirblar]

A) The "1280 years ago" is from Ken Nagle's article.

B) Manifest seems kind of awesome but also RIPE for cheating O_O Definitely a mechanic that couldn't be printed without the Morph and Manifest marker tokens. I don't envy the work judges have cut out for them. I do hope Morph proper comes back for Dragons of Tarkir though.

It sounds like that's the plan.

Also, casual drafts are totally gonna ditch FRF, aren't they?

 

[Crocodile]

They need to kill this goddamn move to mornings. Dropping spoilers while your biggest audience is at work/school is a bad plan. Just move the updates to Sun-Thurs evenings- 6 PM PST/9PM EST would be awesome.

Absolutely. 11am EST is SO FUCKING BAD for anyone on the Western Hemisphere (i.e. most Magic players/buyers). Reading spoilers just before I go to bed is sweet. Not seeing them until the next evening sucks! At least with the holidays its a little less bad since people have more free time and schedules are more flexible.

You expected something from a Tom LaPille set other than boring spike cards where it's blatantly obvious which are good?

I've been happy/fine with most of the cards shown (limited fodder is limited fodder and what not) but you just reminded me that Lapille is developing

It sounds like that's the plan.

Also, casual drafts are totally gonna ditch FRF, aren't they?

Casual drafts should only drop FRF if it makes the format worse like Dark Ascension did to Innistrad. Granted, FRF and DKA are both Lapille sets coming off of Lauer sets so.......... its definitely possible

 

[kirblar]

No one's going to want to open more FRF, lol.

 

[Hero]

How does Lapille still have his job? I will never understand.

 

[Crocodile]

How does Lapille still have his job? I will never understand.

I think he's leaving/left to go work at Activision or something so the short answer is that he doesn't anymore. I'm sure it was because he quit because he wanted to do something else though and not because he did a bad job from WOTC's perspective.

 

[kirblar]

How does Lapille still have his job? I will never understand.

He's gone. He moved to digital shortly before leaving, which is basically being pushed out. (See: Turian.)

 

[charlequin]

I'm sure it was because he quit because he wanted to do something else though and not because he did a bad job from WOTC's perspective.

He left MTG to work on D&D and then they let him come back after like a year, so I'm fairly confident they weren't seeing him as a poor performer or anything.

No one's going to want to open more FRF, lol.

Compared to every other small winter set that people happily draft for however long it's around?

 

[Toxi]

You expected something from a Tom LaPille set other than boring spike cards where it's blatantly obvious which are good?

It sounds like that's the plan.

Also, casual drafts are totally gonna ditch FRF, aren't they?

No one's going to want to open more FRF, lol.

And I thought MtG Salvation was too quick to judge. We've barely seen any cards.

 

[Crocodile]

And I thought MtG Salvation was too quick to judge. We've barely seen any cards.

I think people honestly poo-pooing FRF are being hasty but all that being said, we do know what Lapille developed sets tend to look like (See Born of the Gods and Dark Ascension). It doesn't mean the set can't be awesome but some pessimism is warranted

 

[kirblar]

No, I'm saying that in 2 months, people will want mono-DTK cards and won't want to "waste" packs opening FRF. Not talking about quality.

 

[charlequin]

No, I'm saying that in 2 months, people will want mono-DTK cards and won't want to "waste" packs opening FRF. Not talking about quality.

Ohhhh I thought you meant in FKK. Yeah, tons of people are just gonna draft DTK x3 when that set comes out.

 

[blindrocket]

I only care about constructed, especially Modern. So bring on some spoilers of playable cards!

 

[Toxi]

I think people honestly poo-pooing FRF are being hasty but all that being said, we do know what Lapille developed sets tend to look like (See Born of the Gods and Dark Ascension). It doesn't mean the set can't be awesome but some pessimism is warranted

Tom Lapille isn't on the Fate Reforged development team.

Initial Concept and Game Design: Ken Nagle (lead), Jennifer Clarke Wilkes, Ethan Fleischer, David Humpherys, Mark Rosewater, Gavin Verhey

Final Game Design and Development: David Humpherys (lead), Ian Duke, Mark L. Gottlieb, Ben Hayes, Ryan Spain, with contributions from Matt Tabak

 

[Crocodile]

Huh. I knew Lapille was working on a set this block and someone earlier in the thread said Lapille was on this set so I thought they were right. Looking it up, it appears he's on Dragons of Tarkir as a co-lead. I guess no need to be worried for another two months

On an unrelated note, the FTV printings of Reserve cards was part of a slow process to get rid of the Reserved List but some assholes somewhere freaked out and now we are in the current situation with the list. Was this discussed already?

 

[Toxi]

On an unrelated note, the FTV printings of Reserve cards was part of a slow process to get rid of the Reserved List but some assholes somewhere freaked out and now we are in the current situation with the list. Was this discussed already?

I feel like the only way the Reserved list is acceptable to the health of the game is if Wizards is willing to reprint the hell out of any card that's not on it. If there's a clear list of cards that will not be reprinted to invest in, collectors have no reason to complain when any card off the list, no matter how expensive, is reprinted.

 

[kirblar]

Why did I think LaPille was on set 2?

Maybe there's hope here after all. Journey into Nyx was pretty good.

 

[charlequin]

On an unrelated note, the FTV printings of Reserve cards was part of a slow process to get rid of the Reserved List but some assholes somewhere freaked out and now we are in the current situation with the list. Was this discussed already?

Not really.

It's very difficult to determine who the demographic who actively supports the Reserved List is. The obvious answer would be "card shops," but SCG (who we can effectively count as a stand-in for card shops with big inventories in general) was aggressively in favor of eliminating the RL, and even sent Ben Bleiweiss to WotC HQ to argue for that. And when you break it down, that makes sense -- stores actually stand to make much more money in the long run selling a high volume of relatively cheap cards at a bigger raw margin then they do trying to find people to occasionally drop $1200 on a playset of some Legacy staple, and by marking up limited-run reprint products that include valuable older cards.

If you hunt around online you can find a number of people who will write in favor of it, but it's almost entirely a small set of ultra-dedicated collectors, most of whom don't play with new sets and represent an incredibly tiny amount of value (either directly as buyers or indirectly as community-builders) to WotC. So: who complained loudly enough that they completely reversed course on this decision?

The best explanation I've heard offered has nothing to do with popular disapproval. Instead, the claim is that they started taking steps to eliminate the Reserved List, and a small set of those collectors threatened to sue, claiming that the RL was made binding by promisory estoppel and that Hasbro's legal team put an instant, non-negotiable kibosh on it. That would certainly explain both the obviously weak and nonsensical explanation for their current position ("we want to keep promises that we make") and the bizarre way everyone in R&D talks about it ("we're never eliminating the Reserved List, and I can't talk about why, and I also can't talk about why I can't talk about why.")

I feel like the only way the Reserved list is acceptable to the health of the game is if Wizards is willing to reprint the hell out of any card that's not on it. If there's a clear list of cards that will not be reprinted to invest in, collectors have no reason to complain when any card off the list, no matter how expensive, is reprinted.

In fairness, this is kind of what WotC is actually doing, just ramping into it slowly. We're seeing major Modern staples slowly being brought down across the board and a larger number of reprint-heavy sets appearing each year (jus compare, say, 2008 to now.)

 

[Toxi]

The high number of dragons in Fate Reforged reminds me of this gem.

Here is the true story of Scourge: the dictate was given that it would be about Dragons, because Dragons are a creature type, and people like Dragons. It was also decided that it would get a keyword, and a non-keyword subtheme that fit into the above. Unfortunately, the development team was replaced by 1920s German Dadaists, who attempted to destroy culture through the lens of Magic cards.

You want Dragons? You will have four of them. We will use the word “dragon” in other unrelated cards. Your bourgeois ideals cannot stand up to the absurdity of life. Your attempts at constructing meaning are a child shouting into their porridge. We will create a poetry of our mechanic, by opening the dictionary and assigning a word to a concept that directly contradicts the dragon you hold so dear. You wish for a tournament-playable Dragon? We oblige with a white creature that gives you a Plains for seven mana a turn, payable in installments. You cannot win. Bladewing, Mind’s Desire, dada m’dada dada mhm, dada 7U 1/1. Of the parts of the “dragon,” we have decided to reference its converted mana cost. You care about flying, and other insignificant things. You will care about a large number placed in a place you’d rather it not be. Dada is life. What is a dragon? A dragon is a word. It is not real, but nothing is, and words are things, and dada is real.

 

[The Technomancer]

The best explanation I've heard offered has nothing to do with popular disapproval. Instead, the claim is that they started taking steps to eliminate the Reserved List, and a small set of those collectors threatened to sue, claiming that the RL was made binding by promisory estoppel and that Hasbro's legal team put an instant, non-negotiable kibosh on it. That would certainly explain both the obviously weak and nonsensical explanation for their current position ("we want to keep promises that we make") and the bizarre way everyone in R&D talks about it ("we're never eliminating the Reserved List, and I can't talk about why, and I also can't talk about why I can't talk about why.")

I'm holding onto my From the Vault: Relics in mint condition to see if the RL reprints in it ever gain in value, but on the other hand I could give no shits if they repeal it

 

[Big One]

If my YGO background has a say in this, I must say pretty much anything that produces card advantage is good for the most part. For example...

This one is pretty damn impressive by giving you a free +1 every End Step and it turns all of your other monsters into replaceable 2/2 monsters.

The green draw spell also looks pretty impressive for those monster heavy green decks, giving them basically their own version of Dig Through Time only more potent cause you can potentially draw lots of cards.

 

[Arksy]

What's the official draft format once FRF comes out? Is it 2x FRF and 1x KTK or the other way around?

 

[kirblar]

I don't think the stats on that are good enough when Sidisi/Rhino/Queen are around.

 

[The Technomancer]

What's the official draft format once FRF comes out? Is it 2x FRF and 1x KTK or the other way around?

1xFRF and 2xKTK. I'm not a fan because I'd rather the environment be focused more on the new cards, but meh they've said its a concern they're aware of and I wonder how things might shift with the Two Set Paradigm next fall

 

[Toxi]

I don't think the stats on that are good enough when Sidisi/Rhino/Queen are around.

Sidisi's a tri-color Hill Giant. P/T and CMC aren't everything.

(Though they definitely help LOL)

 

["God's Beard!"]

Whisperwood Elemental is such a sweeper-troll.

 

[acheron_xl]

Manifest is really weird, and not where I thought they were going to go with Morph. Now I'm really keen to see what they've cooked up in DTK.

 

[Vangu Vegro]

*Reserved List talk*

I, for one, think cards that should never have been printed in the first place should never be reprinted, and that unhealthy, unbalanced tournament formats that weren't supposed to exist in the first place should not be given support they don't deserve.
To me, the Reserved List isn't a problem, but part of the solution to a problem (the other parts being the banning of all out-of-print staples in paper Vintage/Legacy and/or making those formats digital-only).
And I wish Wizards had the cojones to solve actual problems rather than make half-assed attempts at non-solutions to non-problems.
I'm not a card shop nor am I affiliated with one of them, nor have I been a collector for years. Still, I fully and unequivocally support the Reserved List to the degree that if it never existed, I'd be first among those wanting for it to be created.

 

[Arksy]

Temporal trespass looks fucking amazing. Sorry for the size, can't reformat on my phone.

 

[Toxi]

Temporal trespass looks fucking amazing. Sorry for the size, can't reformat on my phone.

The exile clause is definitely a good idea on a card like that.

I, for one, think cards that should never have been printed in the first place should never be reprinted, and that unhealthy, unbalanced tournament formats that weren't supposed to exist in the first place should not be given support they don't deserve.
To me, the Reserved List isn't a problem, but part of the solution to a problem (the other parts being the banning of all out-of-print staples in paper Vintage/Legacy and/or making those formats digital-only).
And I wish Wizards had the cojones to solve actual problems rather than make half-assed attempts at non-solutions to non-problems.
I'm not a card shop nor am I affiliated with one of them, nor have I been a collector for years. Still, I fully and unequivocally support the Reserved List to the degree that if it never existed, I'd be first among those wanting for it to be created.

The fuck?

Why do you even care about formats that you don't play?

 

[Firemind]

Should be UU so it would be a literal Time Walk.

 

[WanderingWind]

Yes. We just got "fixed" Ancestral Recall, now we get "fixed" Time Walk.

How does this not just go into UR Delver immediately? It's amaaaaazzzzing

 

[G.ZZZ]

It's way worse than TC, but still, the first playable Eternal card from the format is blue. I guess WotC saw that blue penetration in those formats was too low and decided to fix the issue with TC, DTT and now Time Walk for UUU.

EDIT: thinking about it again, this card isn't playable in anything that already play TC or DTT, and time walk in general is a lot overrated as an effect, since in pratice it's often win-more. So it probably won't see play in Legacy, nowhere as much as TC or DTT at least. It's a good thing to unpack this early though so you can scam kid making them believe it's the second coming of Jesus.

 

[manipulate]

Um, that seems really, really, really good.