charlequin
Banned
Tarkir so far is trivially the most complex block since Lorwyn, with FRF being a huge part of that. The party line on it is that this is the absolute maximum allowed complexity nowadays.
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Magic: The Gathering |OT3| Enchantment Under the Siege
- Thread starter The Technomancer
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Tarkir so far is trivially the most complex block since Lorwyn, with FRF being a huge part of that. The party line on it is that this is the absolute maximum allowed complexity nowadays.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yeah I think I'm fine with that, at least for the foreseeable future. I just hope its more often than once every six years, but a large part of that has been them finding their feet and recalibrating NWO
divisionbyzorro
Member
M13 was fantastic. He hit all the right notes with balancing removal and creatures to make the perfect "vanilla" limited format.
FRF is off the chain with complexity compared to anything we've had in a long time. My problem is that it feels messy. I really like complex sets (if I had to pick, I would choose Lorwyn as my favorite set), but only when the mechanical complexity has and endgame beyond simply being "complex." I remember the moment I fell in love with Lorwyn - I was getting my teeth kicked in by a play who had drafted a UW Merfolk deck that was assembling a milling, token-generating engine that kept revving out of control. I realized that the set was giving me cogs for a machine that I could play with, not just a bunch of fancy toys. I want my sets to have "eureka" moments - and that's not something you get very often these days.
I guess I don't feel like that's present in Khans. Most of the cards do pretty much exactly what they say they do. I'm hoping FRF has that hidden depth, and I feel like it might (I actually had a small "eureka" moment at the prerelease when I realized how many different things Sultai Emissary was doing for me). But it also could just be nothing.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The guy across from me has apparently opened four foil Ugin's Nexus'
I think this is the key word in the sentence.
EDIT: Aha. I thought you wrote Ugin, not Ugin's Nexus. *coughs and leaves embarrassed*
Joe Molotov
Member
Aww shit, the guy that pulled four foil Temporal Trespasses is gonna have a bad night.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I'm pretty sure that's just because Manifest is ridiculous rules wise.
charlequin
Banned
I don't think the rules are the big complexity issue with manifest really. If you know how to play morphs, you can generally play manifest correctly, even if there are a lot of little edge cases. But with morph you can plausibly have a pretty full idea of what your opponent can flip up based on their deck, whereas when you're trying to play against manifest it could be literally anything.
Yeah, having to keep track of different kinds of face down cards is...
It's like watching a player's hand to see which cards they're looking at and which cards they're ignoring and how they're organizing their hand. Except knowing Manifest/Morph order and type is required by the rules.
It's like watching a player's hand to see which cards they're looking at and which cards they're ignoring and how they're organizing their hand. Except knowing Manifest/Morph order and type is required by the rules.
charlequin
Banned
Super dumb question spurred by watching the Vintage Super League: is there a way to set custom games to different clocks or match lengths in V4 now?
blindrocket
Member
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Manifest is in a set that also has Morph though. They're drafted at the same time, which can make it pretty complex.
It's amazing how great a limited format with tons of quality removal in most colors can be. Maybe they will learn something?
It's like they realized how putrid AVR was going to be with no removal, and wanted to make sure that wasn't a problem in M13
I really, really, really loved New Phyrexia from every perspective. The art direction is sublime and the artists execute it perfectly. The new mechanic of Phyrexian mana is fun to play with how it lets you choose whether to sacrifice your long-term survival for short term game. There are lots of flashy creative cards, even among the uncommons like Rage Forge. For a small set, it's incredibly dense. Even a "trash" common from New Phyrexia has the right unique combination of features to become a Vintage playable. When the entire set leaked, I didn't feel even a smidgen of disappointment.
LaserBuddha
Member
I have a playset of Thoughtseize and yeah I mostly play them on myself.
Because once Soulflayer is out on turn 4 it's champagne and limousines.
Because once Soulflayer is out on turn 4 it's champagne and limousines.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Actually, Turn 3 flying, first strike, haste, indestructible, hexproof soulflayer isn't completely out of the question.
LaserBuddha
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";149479877]Actually, Turn 3 flying, first strike, haste, indestructible, hexproof soulflayer isn't completely out of the question.[/QUOTE]
Do tell.
Do tell.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";149479877]Actually, Turn 3 flying, first strike, haste, indestructible, hexproof soulflayer isn't completely out of the question.[/QUOTE]
You missed vigilance, trample, and lifelink.
T2 Commune with the Gods/Satyr Wayfinder -> dump Chromanticore, Flamewake Phoenix, Sylvan Caryatid, and Pharika
T3 delve all of them for Soulflayer
You missed vigilance, trample, and lifelink.
T2 Commune with the Gods/Satyr Wayfinder -> dump Chromanticore, Flamewake Phoenix, Sylvan Caryatid, and Pharika
T3 delve all of them for Soulflayer
T4 cry when your opponent has Crackling Doom
and relevant to my interests! I have a small cube (360) though so it's probably unnecessary.
divisionbyzorro
Member
It's too expensive; just get one of those cardboard boxes.
whoa I didn't see the price. yeah, I'll pass even though it's beautiful. not worth it.
I'm using a Theros Holiday gift box right now, it's working fine.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Anyone else watching the VSL?
I'm still in love with Randy's deck. If it wasn't literally thousands of dollars to assemble online I would love to play with that thing.
I'm still in love with Randy's deck. If it wasn't literally thousands of dollars to assemble online I would love to play with that thing.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Or you could put creatures in your deck that you can actually cast like bassara tower archer and gurmag swiftwing instead of chromanticore. You get trample from playing nylea turn 4. Or being cool and splashing red for xenagos and temur battle rage.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";149511959]Or you could put creatures in your deck that you can actually cast like bassara tower archer and gurmag swiftwing instead of chromanticore. You get trample from playing nylea turn 4. Or being cool and splashing red for xenagos and temur battle rage.[/QUOTE]
Let me dream
(also Chromanticore is totally castable - you're playing Caryatids already, and are probably playing Mana Confluence in an aggressive otherwise-4-colour deck)
Also today's Uncharted Realms is a nice insight into the Mardu, and the significance of their war-names.
Let me dream
(also Chromanticore is totally castable - you're playing Caryatids already, and are probably playing Mana Confluence in an aggressive otherwise-4-colour deck)
Also today's Uncharted Realms is a nice insight into the Mardu, and the significance of their war-names.
Alesha chose her grandmother's name as her war-name to express her gender identity.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Seriously guys. Randy's VSL deck is fantastic.
Sample turn-one kill that happened on stream:
On the draw, he gets his Preordain Thoughtseized.
Draws Lotus Petal for turn. Gitaxian Probe draws Preordain. Play Mox Jet, Mox Ruby, Black Lotus, Lotus Petal. Tap Jet to play Expedition Map. Play Tolarian Academy from hand, tap it for 5 blue mana. Play Preordain, draw Tezzeret the Seeker. Play Tezzeret, -4 to get Goblin Charbelcher. Pay three mana, tap Charbelcher, his opponent goes to -33.
Sample turn-one kill that happened on stream:
On the draw, he gets his Preordain Thoughtseized.
Draws Lotus Petal for turn. Gitaxian Probe draws Preordain. Play Mox Jet, Mox Ruby, Black Lotus, Lotus Petal. Tap Jet to play Expedition Map. Play Tolarian Academy from hand, tap it for 5 blue mana. Play Preordain, draw Tezzeret the Seeker. Play Tezzeret, -4 to get Goblin Charbelcher. Pay three mana, tap Charbelcher, his opponent goes to -33.
Joe Molotov
Member
It made out of actual Moxes.
Yeah, that deck was real cool. I ended up falling asleep during some of the later matches but I really enjoyed watching that deck go. The Mind's Desire is cool as a way to win games where you don't just kill them immediately.
Sad we didn't get to see LSV resolve a Doomsday.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Got a link? Vintage is the best format.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";149527601]Got a link? Vintage is the best format.[/QUOTE]
Here is the playlist for yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQQ8jPMFzt7mK5VpGKGjgjtc0XKjRFSVc You can look on Randy's channel for all of the first season as well.
Here is the playlist for yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQQ8jPMFzt7mK5VpGKGjgjtc0XKjRFSVc You can look on Randy's channel for all of the first season as well.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";149511959]Or you could put creatures in your deck that you can actually cast like bassara tower archer and gurmag swiftwing instead of chromanticore. You get trample from playing nylea turn 4. Or being cool and splashing red for xenagos and temur battle rage.[/QUOTE]
Or you could not play Soulflayer and just play Tasigur.
Or you could not play Soulflayer and just play Tasigur.
I need one or two more Tasigurs though. I'm a Johnny/Timmy; Soulflayer is way more interesting to me than Tasigur (though Tasigur is still pretty awesome).
"God's Beard!"
Member
Hey man, Ive already got the sidisi deck built.
SigmasonicX
Member
Let me dream
(also Chromanticore is totally castable - you're playing Caryatids already, and are probably playing Mana Confluence in an aggressive otherwise-4-colour deck)
Also today's Uncharted Realms is a nice insight into the Mardu, and the significance of their war-names.Alesha chose her grandmother's name as her war-name to express her gender identity.
I really think you should have better stated the importance of today's Uncharted Realms article.
Alesha is a transgender individual.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I need one or two more Tasigurs though. I'm a Johnny/Timmy; Soulflayer is way more interesting to me than Tasigur (though Tasigur is still pretty awesome).
Tasigur is basically fixed Tarmogoyf.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Couldn't Wizards drastically reduce the legacy price barrier by printing legendary versions of the duals?
Precipice of Marit Lage
Legendary Land - Island Swamp
Stick them in two-color commander precons or something.
Precipice of Marit Lage
Legendary Land - Island Swamp
Stick them in two-color commander precons or something.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";149557268]Couldn't Wizards drastically reduce the legacy price barrier by printing legendary versions of the duals?
Precipice of Marit Lage
Legendary Land - Island Swamp
Stick them in two-color commander precons or something.[/QUOTE]
Outside of Commander, doesn't play well at all- Mana needs to be consistent- those are anything but.
Precipice of Marit Lage
Legendary Land - Island Swamp
Stick them in two-color commander precons or something.[/QUOTE]
Outside of Commander, doesn't play well at all- Mana needs to be consistent- those are anything but.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
They could reduce the price if Legacy by flipping existing Legacy players the bird and printing the following cards:
Tropical Island
Underground Sea
Volcanic Island
Tundra
Badlands
Savannah
Taiga
Bayou
Plateau
Scrublands
Tropical Island
Underground Sea
Volcanic Island
Tundra
Badlands
Savannah
Taiga
Bayou
Plateau
Scrublands
"God's Beard!"
Member
What's the difference between a deck that plays one volcanic island like UW Miracles and a deck that plays one Legendary Volcanic Island?
The idea is that you could shave the price of legacy without making duals irrelevant by replacing one of each dual with a legendary version. Even for Miracles, which only plays three duals, that's a discount of hundreds of dollars.
"God's Beard!"
Member
The thing is, unless they reprint or improve upon the duals, they'll never go down in price. There just aren't enough to go around. Even printing legendary lands is closer to a band aid than a solution.
Actually they're exactly like a dual as a 1-of. Which is lot of $$$ from tricolor decks. consider this mana base:
1 Karakas
2 Arid Mesa
2 Plains
2 Volcanic Island
2 Wasteland
3 Island
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
This is Miracle. Now imagine:
1 Karakas
2 Arid Mesa
2 Plains
1 Legendary UR
1 Volc
2 Waste
3 Island
1 Legendary UW
2 Tundra
4 Strand
4 Delta
It's functionally exactly the same thing, but you shaved like 400$ from the deck which is huge. And if you wanted, you could add 1 more fetch and shave another dual, which while not perfectly optimal, it's still pratically the same as this mana base, and league better than using Shocks which are just bad (in legacy context of course).
Legenduals would make legacy mana bases much more affordable. Yes it's lazy, but since WotC seems to be unable to make good situationally better than duals lands, i see this as the most realistic option.
Situtationally better than duals lands would be the most interesting for sure. Imagine:
Koilos Strand
Land
When Koilos Strand ETB, your opponent lose 1 life.
T: add W or B, lose 1 life.
Karplusan Wastes
Land
ETB tapped.
T: R or G.
RG, sac, T: destroy target non-basic land
Cemetery of the Forgottens
Land
As it ETB, exile your graveyard.
T: add U or B to your mana pool.
T: exile target creature in a graveyard.
Bloodstained Peak
Land
T: add R or B to your mana pool, deal 1 damage to you.
T: target creature you control gain haste and +1+0. Sacrifice that creature at EoT.
Unluckyman Cavern
Land
ETB. When it ETB, look the top 3 cards of your library. You may reveal a basic forest or swamp from them and add it to your hand. Put the other cards on the bottom.
T: add G or B to your mana pool.
All probably too good for standard, but easily printable in precons and would open interesting deckbuilding possibilities.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";149558687]What's the difference between a deck that plays one volcanic island like UW Miracles and a deck that plays one Legendary Volcanic Island?
The idea is that you could shave the price of legacy without making duals irrelevant by replacing one of each dual with a legendary version. Even for Miracles, which only plays three duals, that's a discount of hundreds of dollars.[/QUOTE]
It's an issue if you want to play more than one/not with fetches.
They just need a better alternative than the shocklands.
The idea is that you could shave the price of legacy without making duals irrelevant by replacing one of each dual with a legendary version. Even for Miracles, which only plays three duals, that's a discount of hundreds of dollars.[/QUOTE]
It's an issue if you want to play more than one/not with fetches.
They just need a better alternative than the shocklands.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I love how the internet has given everybody a voice enough to know that the company line of "Oh, there are just as many people for the reserved list as against it" was horseshit all along. I think even MaRo has stopped saying that and now just says "Can't talk, won't talk." Pretty funny. I wonder if that was just echo chamber in play or just hoping to spread that to get people to shut up about it.
Just make Snow Dual lands. Yes, it makes them slightly better than the original ones (mainly because of Skred), but who cares- thanks to Coldsnap, they wouldn't just be functional reprints and thus get around the Reserved List.
Make Commander 2015 based on 4 color legends and include 6 of them in each box.
Make Commander 2015 based on 4 color legends and include 6 of them in each box.
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