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Magic: The Gathering |OT3| Enchantment Under the Siege

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F

Firemind

Member
sunscorchregent.jpg
Click to expand...
silumgarsassassin.jpg
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Silumgar's Assasin 1B
Creature - Human Assassin
Creatures with power greater than ～'s power can't block it.
Megamorph 2B
When ～ is turned face up, destroy target creature with power 3 or less an opponent controls.
2/1
 
S

sibarraz

Banned
How does the legendary creature mechanic works?

If I had a simulgar for example, I know that I can't summon another simulgan, but can I summor another legendary dragon?

And my opponent could summon another simulgar?
 
F

Firemind

Member
you can summon silumgar, the drifting death and dragonlord silumgar if you wanted to and they would co-exist together peacefully. likewise, your opponent can summon both of them while you have one or both on the battlefield. It's dumb from a flavour point of view, since it's supposed to be legendary, but it brings for better gameplay. The only restriction you have is that you can't have two legendary cards of the same name on the battlefield. planeswalkers work differently as they care about the super type in the middle of the card.
 
Y

y2dvd

Member
Firemind said:
Silumgar's Assasin 1B
Creature - Human Assassin
Creatures with power greater than ～'s power can't block it.
Megamorph 2B
When ～ is turned face up, destroy target creature with power 3 or less an opponent controls.
2/1
Click to expand...
Bleh at the dragon. All the red dragons are laughing at this right now.

What does greater than ~'s power mean? Greater than Silumgar's power? There's no reason to megamorph if that's the case lol.

The Technomancer said:
Well this is going to piss me the fuck off in more than a few limited games.
Click to expand...
Good thing it's in a rare slot. I can still think there will be plenty of other limited rares that will piss me off way more than a narrow removal spell.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
I just ranted on the Legacy cube changes on Reddit. I figured I might as well post it here too:

Oh my goodness. I have so, so, so many issues with this latest iteration. Where to begin?
  1. Show and Tell and Eureka are in cubes for two very different purposes. The first is the power fantasy. For many players, it doesn't matter if it only works once out of three matches; as long as you get to overkill your opponent once it was worth it. But there's a second use for these cards - they are backups to other powerful strategies like Ramp and Reanimator. I always loved having a Show and Tell in my UG Ramp decks, because sometimes I could mise a turn 2 Consecrated Sphinx off of an Elf. These cards are super powerful, and even though it may be a "trap" to go all-in on them, that doesn't mean the cards are bad. These are skill-testing and iconic cards that are a net positive for being in the cube. I honestly consider them cube staples and don't believe there's any value in removing them.
  2. If Randy is going to nerf all of the good artifact ramp, why is he leaving the huge Upheaval trap still in the cube? Just take it out and admit that you don't like that card and don't want to support it. Even though I don't agree with that position (I think artifact mana and Upheaval/Armageddon/Wildfire is a great archetype), I could at least respect it.
  3. Mono-red was already significantly nerfed last time, and I feel like it was in a really good place. The deck that bothered me and that I felt was the boring, oppressive, linear strategy was actually mono-white. Why keep piling on red aggro? These changes have taken red aggro from being just another archetype to being completely unplayable, which is a net negative in my book - there is one fewer playable deck in the draft.
  4. Black has always been a problem in cubes, and I can understand that he wants to play around with it...but Vampires? The archetype is incredibly parasitic, putting a lot of cards into the cube that are only good in one deck. This makes for a boring draft environment when a huge chunk of cards can be evaluated as "Am I Vampires? Yes or No." If he wanted to play around with mono-black aggro and give it a shot in the arm, he should have gone with Zombies. Most of the solid 1CC black aggro creatures are zombies, and zombies have this grindy backup strategy of graveyard recursion (Cemetery Reaper, Gravecrawler, Lord of the Undead, Gravedigger) which gives it legs in the power of a cube environment.
  5. The 1CC aggro creatures tend to support a U/B tempo deck better than they support straight black aggro already. Guess what color has some sweet zombies?
  6. If you're putting a card in the cube because of its subtype while admitting that it's a bad card otherwise, you've screwed up.
  7. I hate the Vampire thing with a passion and just wanted to say it again.
Some individual card choices I disagree with:
  • Fires of Yavimaya: I kinda don't think this card does what you want it to do. If you're looking for a cute card to support Gruul aggro, Gruul War Chant is better in my opinion.
  • Deathrite Shaman: This is a classic "it was good in constructed so it's good in cube" mistake. How often is this guy actually going to add mana? Basically never? So he's a dork that might dome your opponent or gain you a few life - maybe? The card is useless - don't add it.
  • Kiora's Follower: It worked in Holiday Cube because it did double duty as a mana dork and getting free wins with Time Vault. What's it doing here? Prime Speaker Zegana wasn't ever getting picked - I remember seeing it wheel around the table all the time, and I hardly ever played it when it was in my pool. Replacing it makes sense, but at least put something spicy in there like a Prophet of Kruphix.
  • Chandra Nalaar: Come on.
I could keep going. I have other things to be doing today.
To be honest - I'm still going to draft this thing. I love cube and can't help myself. But I don't like the direction this is going.
Also, next time, let's not bury the cube update on the first day of spoilers for a new set, eh?
Click to expand...

Cubes are all very subjective, and people have very strong opinions over something that's really an artistic expression of the cube designer, so I'm sure not all of my points will be agreed upon, but that's how I feel about it.
 
F

Firemind

Member
"I have other things to do today." *Writes long rant.* Sorry, that made me chuckle.

I've just seen the updated cube list and RIP mono red. I think I said this last time too, but this time I really mean it lol. For realsies. Like, damn. Obliterated off the face of the earth. Also, vampires, really? Vampires have, besides being bad creatures on their own, like zero nostalgic value. Guess control has free reign now for better or worse.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
Firemind said:
"I have other things to do today." *Writes long rant.* Sorry, that made me chuckle.

I've just seen the updated cube list and RIP mono red. I think I said this last time too, but this time I really mean it lol. For realsies. Like, damn. Obliterated off the face of the earth. Also, vampires, really? Vampires have, besides being bad creatures on their own, like zero nostalgic value. Guess control has free reign now for better or worse.
Click to expand...

Yeah yeah. It was going to be just a quick comment. Then it grew. And grew. Then I looked at the clock and was like - damn I have to stop. :p
 
K

Kerrinck

Member
Firemind said:
"I have other things to do today." *Writes long rant.* Sorry, that made me chuckle.

I've just seen the updated cube list and RIP mono red. I think I said this last time too, but this time I really mean it lol. For realsies. Like, damn. Obliterated off the face of the earth. Also, vampires, really? Vampires have, besides being bad creatures on their own, like zero nostalgic value. Guess control has free reign now for better or worse.
Click to expand...
There's a couple of vampires with a pretty strong nostalgic value.
SengirVampire.jpg

Image.ashx
 
F

Firemind

Member
I don't think either card was played in any capacity other than table magic. Serra Angel is much more iconic. The mono black vampire tribal deck that did see construction play sucked. Vampire tribal wasn't even a thing in Zendikar limited.

To continue the ranting.
Randy Buehler said:
The really interesting data comes when you compare the average draft pick of cards among people who won their draft to the average position among other drafters. Of the top 30 cards on that list, 29 are mono-red aggro cards (with Sulfuric Vortex having the biggest difference). Clearly mono-red decks are too efficient, and while I am happy to have mono-red be around as an option, it shouldn't just be easier to win with than all the other archetypes.
Click to expand...
What does this even mean? I take it the top 29 of highest draft picks among winning decks are mono red? Is such a thing even possible?
 
K

kirblar

Member
Yeah, that's what he's saying. The cards that the people who 3-0 are taking higher than everyone else at the table are all mono-R staples instead of a variety of good cards for different decks.
 
F

Firemind

Member
Did he pull the data from the cube swiss or something? I've played more than a dozen legacy cube single elimination drafts and I've elmininated my fair share of mono red decks. Anecdotal, sure, but I really don't believe mono red has been as oppressive as the data suggests. Not moreso than white weenie in any case.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
Firemind said:
To continue the ranting.

What does this even mean? I take it the top 29 of highest draft picks among winning decks are mono red? Is such a thing even possible?
Click to expand...

It's a terrible sentence. But what I think what he's saying is that he looked for outliers between the pick orders of winners between the pick orders of everyone else, and that mono-red cards were the majority of that list. Except that doesn't track with my experiences drafting the format - mono-red seemed to be way, way down, and red cards were wheeling around the table like clockwork.

Also, I literally do not believe that 29/30 cards on his list are mono red. That is so absurd that something must be wrong. Red was not that deep.
 
K

Kerrinck

Member
Firemind said:
I don't think either card was played in any capacity other than table magic. Serra Angel is much more iconic. The mono black vampire tribal deck that did see construction play sucked. Vampire tribal wasn't even a thing in Zendikar limited.

To continue the ranting.

What does this even mean? I take it the top 29 of highest draft picks among winning decks are mono red? Is such a thing even possible?
Click to expand...

Ouh I agree but they do hold some pretty strong nostalgic value specially Sengir Vampire. It was probably as iconic as Serra back in the day alongside Shiva and Mahamoti.
As for constructed playable vampires, only ones I can think of are Olivia and Nighthawk.

In other news, WOTC just released the invitation list for the PTQ http://magic.wizards.com/en/protour/rptqvan15/invitations. Looks like there wiill be only 69 participants where I live so hopefully I can get lucky.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Firemind said:
Did he pull the data from the cube swiss or something? I've played more than a dozen legacy cube single elimination drafts and I've elmininated my fair share of mono red decks. Anecdotal, sure, but I really don't believe mono red has been as oppressive as the data suggests. Not moreso than white weenie in any case.
Click to expand...
The issue is that they're seeing that the optimal strategy is to simply force mono-R every time, because if you get it you're most likely to win the draft. It's still limited so it's beatable, but it's not good for a format if there's such an obvious dominant strategy.
mono-red seemed to be way, way down, and red cards were wheeling around the table like clockwork.
Click to expand...
People were likely under the (as it turns out, mistaken) impresion that it had been nerfed hard.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
kirblar said:
People were likely under the (as it turns out, mistaken) impresion that it had been nerfed hard.
Click to expand...

It had been, compared to previous iterations of the cube. Of course, this also meant that people stopped drafting Kitchen Finks/Helix/etc. So it was still good, just not oppressive (from my experience).

I would entertain the argument that perhaps Vortex and Shrine should go (even though I wouldn't necessarily agree). But Randy went full-on scorched earth on the archetype.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Incredibly useless looking "Mythic"

en_QSRYP1z2Lg.png


New Command Cycle:

en_uQPmh8y5Cz.png
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Firemind said:
What does this even mean? I take it the top 29 of highest draft picks among winning decks are mono red? Is such a thing even possible?
Click to expand...

giorgiotsoukalos.jpg


Anyway, explanation for why megamorph was keyworded.
traviemack asked: Why isn't Megamorph just Morph with text saying to add a plus one plus one counter in addition to whatever other text each of these new Morph creatures may have?

Three reasons:

1) We want to play up that morph is different in Dragons of Tarkir

2) We want it to be clear that these cards all work similarly.

3) It gives the audience a vocabulary to talk about the morph variant.
Click to expand...
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
ElyrionX said:
Umm that new Command looks interesting. Hmmmmmm
Click to expand...

Its not even on the same level as Cryptic (probably shouldn't be). The life gain and CMC modes are pretty awful though. Not sure when you'd ever use it.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Angry Grimace said:
Its not even on the same level as Cryptic (probably shouldn't be). The life gain and CMC modes are pretty awful though. Not sure when you'd ever use it.
Click to expand...
It's not even close to it, yet it's still ridiculous.

Especially since you can reanimate a Snapcaster
Why would you want to put it on the bottom? Am I missing something, or is that just trinket text?
Click to expand...
For when you need a live draw that isn't it? Historically, the auto-put on top creatures have had issues in limited where they lock you out of the game vs a heavy removal hand from the opponent.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
kirblar said:
For when you need a live draw that isn't it? Historically, the auto-put on top creatures have had issues in limited where they lock you out of the game vs a heavy removal hand from the opponent.
Click to expand...

But it's a may...

So you can put it on top, bottom, or leave it in the yard. Why would you put it on bottom?
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Its Biorhythm that dies to Doom Blade and costs way more
 
Y

Yeef

Member
Excited to see the other commands. The intro pack dragons aren't too shabby either. The WU one is especially cool.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
divisionbyzorro said:
You kidding? Biorhythm is banned in EDH for a reason. This is a ramp spell for a green deck that can one-shot certain strategies.
Click to expand...

I will concede that I don't care about EDH in any way, so perhaps its good there I don't really know, if you see me talking about EDH I'm probably just talking out of my ass.

Its still useless in normal formats and a card you take in limited if you're green because its still decent ramp, but its not like its a huge bomb - the second ability never gets used.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Stapling Biorhythm onto an activated ability makes it next to useless since you can't really cheat the effect out now. I suppose it might be useful in my Intet deck if I have something that grants haste out
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
I guess a GW Hatebears deck could use it to some effect? Seems like all the abilities can be relevant in that deck.

Bring back Thalia, counter your Boros Charm, etc.

edit: it's UW lol nevermind
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I mean, Command is playable if UW is playable. Right now, it kind of isn't and Command isn't by itself good enough to go full Esper or anything.
 
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