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[divisionbyzorro]

If you have eight mana in Modern control, you could get back Snapcaster, draw a card, then flash back the Command, counter, then draw again. THE VALUE!!!

At the very least, it's a cube/EDH staple. Hold onto your foils, kids.

 

[ElyrionX]

I mean, Command is playable if UW is playable. Right now, it kind of isn't and Command isn't by itself good enough to go full Esper or anything.

Probably 1CMC too expensive to be playable in Modern.

 

[red13th]

I love that Command but my Azorius section is too tight, not worth cutting Detention Sphere, Verdict or Revelation imo. Nothing else interests me so far.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Huh. I didn't know that there was a UW Hatebears deck in modern. Kinda cool.

 

[Toxi]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";154271612]I loooove that Silumgar got fat and lazy so his stats got worse LOL[/QUOTE]
This is amazing.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";154412143]Huh. I didn't know that there was a UW Hatebears deck in modern. Kinda cool.[/QUOTE]

I used to play it some. Vialing out a Skaab Ruinator never got old.

 

[kirblar]

EW is 3CMC.

This and Alesha in the same block annoys me.

 

[Crocodile]

I just ranted on the Legacy cube changes on Reddit. I figured I might as well post it here too:



Cubes are all very subjective, and people have very strong opinions over something that's really an artistic expression of the cube designer, so I'm sure not all of my points will be agreed upon, but that's how I feel about it.

Did you e-mail or tweet at Randy? Yelling into the aether isn't going to accomplish much but if you actually talk to him you might have an effect for the next Cube list.

My biggest issue with the changes is that Randy et al. don't seem to realize that for aggressive decks to succeed in Cube, you need a lot of redundancy and more "aggro-only" cards than other theaters. If you want to dial back on cards that ONLY go into Mono Red that's one thing but they nixed cards that go into any aggressive Red deck. They also pretty much obliterated Black aggressive decks and slanted Green even FURTHER into Ramp. I don't expect Paul Cheon is ever lose a game where he isn't horrible mana flooded or screwed.

What they should be doing is trying to encourage more multicolor aggro decks to increase diversity instead of making the Cube even more durdle friendly.So many people in the Cube queses just draft these aimless messes and call them decks - its no wonder Mono-Red did so well. That and with the pros being all like "Mono-Red rules, Black sucsk" I wouldn't be surprised if that influenced the drafting preferences of the Spikier drafters.

I'm also surprised at some non-inclusions from Fate Reforged (where's Tasigur?) and I still don't like how they are handling morphs. I mean they are obviously trying but the more I think about it, the more this update may have made the Cube straight up worse.

That Mythic is pathetic as fuck

Somberwald Sage saw constructed play. This ramps a little less hard but fixes better and can actually enter combat. I wouldn't be so immediately dismissive.

 

[Toxi]

I'm also surprised at some non-inclusions from Fate Reforged (where's Tasigur?)

Silumgar is wearing his corpse as a necktie.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Silumgar is wearing his corpse as a necktie.

I think he means in Cube.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Somberwald Sage saw constructed play. This ramps a little less hard but fixes better and can actually enter combat. I wouldn't be so immediately dismissive.

Shaman of the Forgotten Ways, I served with Somberwald Sage. I knew Somberwald Sage. Somberwald Sage was a friend of mine. Shaman, you're no Somberwald Sage.

 

[Toxi]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";154422724]I think he means in Cube.[/QUOTE]
Oh wow, I'm a dumbo.

 

[Jhriad]

Its still useless in normal formats and a card you take in limited if you're green because its still decent ramp, but its not like its a huge bomb - the second ability never gets used.

Seems like it would be pretty good in a R/G Devotion deck. Nykthos + Voyaging Satyr + Xenagos means you could potentially ramp into it's second activated ability fairly quickly. Of course I don't have the experience you guys do so I'm probably not really looking at how likely those things are to remain on the board. Still, seems like a fun thing to try to hit for FNM or something.

 

[WanderingWind]

Ah, yes, the inevitable shitty mythic. What will be their excuse this time?

 

["God's Beard!"]

Is there even a good 6-mana creature for the Shaman to ramp into? I guess there's these options:

Kalonian Twingrove
Scuttling Doom Engine
Genesis Hydra
Souls

...I guess that's it? It just seems so much worse than anything else. If there was another 1-drop mana dork maybe he'd be good? I dunno, I can't figure it out.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Seems like it would be pretty good in a R/G Devotion deck. Nykthos + Voyaging Satyr + Xenagos means you could potentially ramp into it's second activated ability fairly quickly. Of course I don't have the experience you guys do so I'm probably not really looking at how likely those things are to remain on the board. Still, seems like a fun thing to try to hit for FNM or something.

Shaman is not a good threat on his own. His activated ability is 11 mana, which is beyond even what Devotion decks are trying to do. He costs you a card and there are better ways to ramp - Mystic, Caryatid, Courser, Frontier Siege.

Its a very good limited card, but "cards that are good in limited and are Mythic" leave a bad taste in my mouth since you never see them anyways.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";154423822]Is there even a good 6-mana creature for the Shaman to ramp into? I guess there's these options:

Kalonian Twingrove
Scuttling Doom Engine
Genesis Hydra
Souls

...I guess that's it? It just seems so much worse than anything else. If there was another 1-drop mana dork maybe he'd be good? I dunno, I can't figure it out.[/QUOTE]

Sagu Mauler =V

 

["God's Beard!"]

Sagu Mauler =V

lolz

I'm still trying to figure out if he changes the math for my Bearer of the Heavens/Frontier Siege/Life's Legacy deck, but it doesn't look like it so far.

 

[SigmasonicX]

I think Shaman of the Forgotten Ways looks fun. In multiplayer, it can provide mana most of the time, attack or block in a pinch, and if the game goes long enough, it can even be a win condition.

The rare gold dragon cycle is kind of dull. It is interesting that the intro pack version of Pristine Skywise has reminder text for protection while the booster version doesn't. It's a bit odd that the two parts of the monocolored rare cycle we've seen are more interesting than any of them.

Also, I totally knew that there would be a new cycle of commands in this set. Granted, I never posted that thought, so it probably doesn't count. Looking forward to the others.

 

[kirblar]

Ah, yes, the inevitable shitty mythic. What will be their excuse this time?

This set is going to have a lot of bad cards by nature of it being a Timmy set. Commands are a blatant attempt to throw Spike a bone.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I think Shaman of the Forgotten Ways looks fun. In multiplayer, it can provide mana most of the time, attack or block in a pinch, and if the game goes long enough, it can even be a win condition.

The rare gold dragon cycle is kind of dull. It is interesting that the intro pack version of Pristine Skywise has reminder text for protection while the booster version doesn't. It's a bit odd that the one part of the monocolored rare cycle is more interesting than any of them.

Also, I totally knew that there would be a new cycle of commands in this set. Granted, I never posted that thought, so it probably doesn't count. Looking forward to the others.

I mean, they're intro pack promos. The only time an intro pack rare is good is if it slips through because R&D sucks (e.g. Rat's Nest)

Ah, yes, the inevitable shitty mythic. What will be their excuse this time?

Silumgar is probably a dollar rare too, let's be honest. Most Mythics are worthless - in KTK 5 of the 15 are worth more than a pack of cards.

 

[kirblar]

Silumgar is actually really damn good. Yes, he's expensive, but he's got a bunch of upgrades on Sower of Temptation in return.

 

["God's Beard!"]

This set is going to have a lot of bad cards by nature of it being a Timmy set. Commands are a blatant attempt to throw Spike a bone.

Why can't we just have all cards like Sovereigns of Lost Alara that are both Timmy and Spike cards?

 

[kirblar]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";154425415]Why can't we just have all cards like Sovereigns of Lost Alara that are both Timmy and Spike cards?[/QUOTE]
Because the high-CC cards are going to obsolete each other. Might as well focus efforts on a few specific ones in each color/color pair.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Silumgar is actually really damn good. Yes, he's expensive, but he's got a bunch of upgrades on Sower of Temptation in return.

I think you'd probably rather just play OG Silumgar for the same CMC; there's no lasting value to a Sower effect when your Scrooge McDragon gets Downfall'd.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I totally forgot See the Unwritten as another 6-drop. That's actually a little more worth thinking about. Talk about a GRx Dragon Tribal enabler.

 

[Crocodile]

Shaman of the Forgotten Ways, I served with Somberwald Sage. I knew Somberwald Sage. Somberwald Sage was a friend of mine. Shaman, you're no Somberwald Sage.

Hey now, I make no guarantees. Just saying I wouldn't throw it in the dumpster just yet (that and it does have value in non-competitive formats)

This set is going to have a lot of bad cards by nature of it being a Timmy set. Commands are a blatant attempt to throw Spike a bone.

It's also a Tom Lapille lead developed (for the most part) set so........

 

[WanderingWind]

Bottom line: Mythics should have a place in constructed. Limited-only mythics are a waste of design space and feed into the luck part of drafting too much. Unplayable mythics are the ultimate feelbad for pack crackers and are part of what erodes the feedback loop of buying product. "Mythic to tell the story" is a joke, because what part of the story is Archangel's Light telling? Why were - and still - the biggest story elements rares? If design and creative can't figure out how to work together to make their big character pieces actually playable, then somebody needs to put in place to bridge that gap.

 

[kirblar]

It's also a Tom Lapille lead developed (for the most part) set so........

Subtlety was not his forte.

You do not want all Mythics to be for constructed. You need to hit multiple audiences.

Also, for accessibility reasons, you would actually prefer that the majority of constructed 4x staple cards not be Mythic.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";154426159]I totally forgot See the Unwritten as another 6-drop. That's actually a little more worth thinking about. Talk about a GRx Dragon Tribal enabler.[/QUOTE]

Except Shaman's mana can't be used on See the Unwritten anyways because STU is a Sorcery.

 

[Toxi]

I'm just glad we're finally getting a dragon set that wasn't created by 1920s German Dada artists.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Except Shaman's mana can't be used on See the Unwritten anyways because STU is a Sorcery.

Man, that card really does suck.

You do not want all Mythics to be for constructed. You need to hit multiple audiences.

They should at least be exciting, though.

 

[WanderingWind]

Subtlety was not his forte.

You do not want all Mythics to be for constructed. You need to hit multiple audiences.

Also, for accessibility reasons, you would actually prefer that the majority of constructed 4x staple cards not be Mythic.

Enormous gulf between "staple" and having a place. A mythic can be a fringe playable Timmy card or a staple. It could be any combination of things, as long as it's a playable card. And yes, you absolutely want mythics to be geared toward constructed because they're not seen enough to be designed specifically for limited. And I'm not even going to entertain talking about developing mythics in blocks aimed at EDH or whatever fake formats exist.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I can totally see non-constructed-worthy cards getting printed at mythic as long as the card is insane enough to feel mythic and surprise people cracking packs.

Like Shahrazad.

 

[Firemind]

What they should be doing is trying to encourage more multicolor aggro decks to increase diversity instead of making the Cube even more durdle friendly. So many people in the Cube queses just draft these aimless messes and call them decks - its no wonder Mono-Red did so well.

I agree with everything here. I'll miss punishing overly greedy people.

That and with the pros being all like "Mono-Red rules, Black sucsk" I wouldn't be surprised if that influenced the drafting preferences of the Spikier drafters.

Be that as it may, mono black is without a doubt terrible as an aggro deck. The problem with black is that other black decks also want tutors, discard and removal. Its best creature, Phyrexian Obliterator, can be killed by any number of cards without gaining any value, and the smaller creatures can't match white, green or red. Red has similar creatures, but it has reach which can double as removal.

The only time I've had success with a black aggro deck was a B/W Death & Taxes style deck. I've also had success with U/B which was more aggro control and B/R which was more mono red splashing black.

Like you said, aggro needs redundancy and black lacks that because other decks leech off the black cards. Then there's the fact that black historically never was an aggro powerhouse. The only time I can remember was when Hatred was around. Randy should add Hatred!

 

["God's Beard!"]

Black aggro is my least favorite archetype. It's like watching your daughter grow up to become a stripper. Tutors, killing everything, graveyard synergies, trading life for resources, that's what I want to see.

A bad mono red impression hurts me.

 

[Toxi]

For what it's worth, Shaman of Forgotten Ways has Biorhythm attached to it at a cost, so it's gonna be played in EDH if it doesn't get banned.

 

[kirblar]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";154427302]They should at least be exciting, though.[/QUOTE]
The "I like to play with myself by making tons of tokens" crowd will love it.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Be that as it may, mono black is without a doubt terrible as an aggro deck. The problem with black is that other black decks also want tutors, discard and removal. Its best creature, Phyrexian Obliterator, can be killed by any number of cards without gaining any value, and the smaller creatures can't match white, green or red. Red has similar creatures, but it has reach which can double as removal.

The only time I've had success with a black aggro deck was a B/W Death & Taxes style deck. I've also had success with U/B which was more aggro control and B/R which was more mono red splashing black.

Like you said, aggro needs redundancy and black lacks that because other decks leech off the black cards. Then there's the fact that black historically never was an aggro powerhouse. The only time I can remember was when Hatred was around. Randy should add Hatred!

Phyrexian Obliterator is the type of card that I actually like cutting (which Randy did) because it's a massive trap to go mono-black. My favorite use for a Carnophage is to throw it in a deck with Daze and Mana Leak and their brethren, not to curve into Obliterator.

I was actually serious about my suggestion for Zombies. That tribe has a lot of cards that gain little bits of incremental advantage - I could definitely see a cube that supported Zombie tribal as something with legs. Vampire tribal is literally the most boring thing ever - slam Vampires and attack.

 

["God's Beard!"]

The "I like to play with myself by making tons of tokens" crowd will love it.

*looks over at my Teysa EDH deck*

What have I become?

 

[kirblar]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";154429987]*looks over at my Teysa EDH deck*

What have I become?[/QUOTE]
That's why everyone you know goes away, in the end.

 

[WanderingWind]

You guys already knew about Valorous Stance, right?

 

[sibarraz]

You guys already knew about Valorous Stance, right?

I bought 4 the other day, why are you mentioning in?

 

[WanderingWind]

I bought 4 the other day, why are you mentioning in?

I'll tell you after they ship my 36 copies.

 

[Bandini]

You guys already knew about Valorous Stance, right?

Is there some kind of interaction with one of the new cards I'm not seeing? Other than killing like every dragon?

 

[Firemind]

Phyrexian Obliterator is the type of card that I actually like cutting (which Randy did) because it's a massive trap to go mono-black. My favorite use for a Carnophage is to throw it in a deck with Daze and Mana Leak and their brethren, not to curve into Obliterator.

I was actually serious about my suggestion for Zombies. That tribe has a lot of cards that gain little bits of incremental advantage - I could definitely see a cube that supported Zombie tribal as something with legs. Vampire tribal is literally the most boring thing ever - slam Vampires and attack.

Zombies has the same issue as vampires: without the lords, the creatures aren't anything special. It's the same reason you don't see Merfolk, Goblins or Elves in cube. Let black be their midrange, reanimating, comboing self instead of trying to make black aggro work.

 

[SigmasonicX]

The guy in front is using a selfie stick to take a group picture.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The guy in front is using a selfie stick to take a group picture.

The style guide for Jeskai is a bunch of monks and djinn standing around posing

 

[Crocodile]

Be that as it may, mono black is without a doubt terrible as an aggro deck. The problem with black is that other black decks also want tutors, discard and removal. Its best creature, Phyrexian Obliterator, can be killed by any number of cards without gaining any value, and the smaller creatures can't match white, green or red. Red has similar creatures, but it has reach which can double as removal.

The only time I've had success with a black aggro deck was a B/W Death & Taxes style deck. I've also had success with U/B which was more aggro control and B/R which was more mono red splashing black.

Like you said, aggro needs redundancy and black lacks that because other decks leech off the black cards. Then there's the fact that black historically never was an aggro powerhouse. The only time I can remember was when Hatred was around. Randy should add Hatred!

Well the first mistake is thinking of it as Mono-Black aggro or bust. Phyrexian Obliterater can go take a hike but cards like Mardu Strike Leader are but one of many, easy to cast and powerful aggressive Black options. If you include the cards to support it, U/B, R/B, G/B and W/B are all viable aggressive options. Literally every other set nowadays WOTC prints a new 2 power Black one drop - the redundancy exists. What Black aggro excels at that other aggressive options fail at is its disruption suite and resiliency. Discard, LD and the like means Black aggro has a better matchup against typical Blue -based + sweeper control than White aggro does and it has a better match up against Green Midrange than Red based aggro (all its removal basically kills anything). It's weaker against other aggressive decks than either Red or White Aggro but that's the thing - Red, White and Black aggro are all better in some matchups and worse in others. None of those three basic aggro camps are strictly better than the other.

I've had success with Black aggro strategies in my Cube and I know other Cube designers who I respect have as well. The MODO Cube serves a difference audience and has different masters but "Black sucks" as a sweeping generalization just isn't accurate anymore.

 

[y2dvd]

You guys already knew about Valorous Stance, right?

Out of all of the packs I've opened, I still have not opened a Valorous Stance nor a Wildslash.

I can see Shaman of Forgotten Ways being in some Temur Ascendency deck or just some green devotion deck.

 

[kirblar]

I think they want a critter strategy in all 5 colors for low-level players.