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[y2dvd]

I'm going to stay away from green because everyone's gonna run it. I'm gonna make the Warrior's deck happen!

 

["God's Beard!"]

Graveyard

4x Bloodsoaked Champion
4x Satyr Wayfinder
4x Nyx Weaver
4x Necropolis Fiend
4x Ashen Rider

2x Whip of Erebos
4x Endless Obedience
4x Murderous Cut
4x Thoughtseize
4x Commune with the Gods

4x llanowar Wastes
4x Temple of Malady
10 Swamp
4 Forest

 

[ThLunarian]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";130070378] Graveyard

4x Bloodsoaked Champion
4x Satyr Wayfinder
4x Nyx Weaver
4x Necropolis Fiend
4x Ashen Rider

2x Whip of Erebos
4x Endless Obedience
4x Murderous Cut
4x Thoughtseize
4x Commune with the Gods

4x llanowar Wastes
4x Temple of Malady
10 Swamp
4 Forest[/QUOTE]

Seems risky to run 4 Ashen Rider with no way to cast it and no way to discard it apart from Thoughtseize-ing yourself.

Also Nyx Weaver seems pretty loose. Might be better off splashing blue just for Sultai Ascendancy instead.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Seems risky to run 4 Ashen Rider with no way to cast it and no way to discard it apart from Thoughtseize-ing yourself.

Also Nyx Weaver seems pretty loose. Might be better off splashing blue just for Sultai Ascendancy instead.

The whole point of graveyard decks is to cheat stuff out early, I don't want to ever stumble on mana. Nyx weaver taps for convoke and is generally awesome. I agree with your assessment about Ashen Rider. Fixed:

Graveyard

4x Bloodsoaked Champion
4x Satyr Wayfinder
4x Nyx Weaver
1x Pharika, God of Affliction
4x Necropolis Fiend
3x Hornet Queen

2x Whip of Erebos
4x Endless Obedience
4x Murderous Cut
4x Thoughtseize
4x Commune with the Gods

4x llanowar Wastes
4x Temple of Malady
10 Swamp
4 Forest

 

[Nikodemos]

So, which one should I pick for Sealed? Abzan, Mardu or Temur? Ferocious is the least conditional of the three abilities (all you need is one random 4-power fatty on the board), but Mardu and Abzan have access to black and white removal.

 

[ElyrionX]

I think I'm just going to stay away from Standard for a while and play my shiny new Modern deck first. No sense spending money on cards building a new deck that I may end up not enjoy playing.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I think I'm just going to stay away from Standard for a while and play my shiny new Modern deck first. No sense spending money on cards building a new deck that I may end up not enjoy playing.

Just proxy up your ideas and test it out instead of waiting to netdeck later on. It's more fun, I promise!

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";130071116]The whole point of graveyard decks is to cheat stuff out early, I don't want to ever stumble on mana. Nyx weaver taps for convoke and is generally awesome. I agree with your assessment about Ashen Rider. Fixed:

Graveyard

4x Bloodsoaked Champion
4x Satyr Wayfinder
4x Nyx Weaver
1x Pharika, God of Affliction
4x Necropolis Fiend
3x Hornet Queen

2x Whip of Erebos
4x Endless Obedience
4x Murderous Cut
4x Thoughtseize
4x Commune with the Gods

4x llanowar Wastes
4x Temple of Malady
10 Swamp
4 Forest[/QUOTE]

I think a Nighthowler/Strength from the Fallen deck is going to be the graveyard deck of choice in KTK standard.

 

[Keru_Shiri]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";130102487]Just proxy up your ideas and test it out instead of waiting to netdeck later on. It's more fun, I promise![/QUOTE]

This! I wasn't too excited for this set until I proxied up a Jeskai Tempo list.

 

[Firemind]

That's very good point. Last time I played against a graveyard deck, Nighthowler had insane value. Now there are multiple cards in Khans that fuel your graveyard. No Jarad anymore though, but dem's the breaks.

 

[bigkrev]

Well, just did some preorders (on Amazon and TCGPlayer)

4x Bloodsoaked Champion @4.08 each
4x Butcher of the Horde @ 3.99 each
4x End Hostilities @1.07 each
4x Zurgo Helmsmasher @1.03 each
4x Crackling Doom @1.46 each
4x Mantis Rider @1.11 each
4x Ghostfire Blades @.75 each
4x Abzan Ascendancy @.45 each
4x Jeskai Ascendancy @.61 each
4x Temur Ascendancy @.54 each
4x Mardu Ascendancy @.45 each

Plus 20 Charms, 40 Duals, 20 Triple Lands, and a bunch of other commons and uncommons

 

[y2dvd]

Augh, was typing each clan in detail last night when my computer randomly restarted itself before I can hit send. Now I'm lazy and I'm just gonna run thru it lol.

Abzan: Fatty gold cards and cheap creatures that has Outlast to sink your mana into late game and help them grow.
Jeskai: Seems pretty tempo based. Creatures look pretty weak without combat tricks to back it up.
Sultai: Looks to be the weakest to me. Creatures gets outclassed by the other clans and Delve means it can take awhile to even get them casted.
Mardu: Raid is weird. You want to attack to trigger it, but you will most likely trade or straight up lose your creature to do so. If you don't want to trade or lose, you'll be spending your mana on a combat trick, possibly not allowing you to cast your creature for the Raid trigger. The gold cards are pretty nasty though.
Temur: To me easily the best out of the bunch. Bomb gold cards with amazing stats. Great spells that will probably get Ferocious triggered from all the fatties. And I think it has the most money card value.

I'd probably rank it:
1. Temur
2. Abzan
3. Jeskai
4. Mardu
5. Sultai

Keep in mind I only rated these based on cards with the clan's symbol on them. The rest of the cards would probably change the rankings slightly, but I still see Temur on top.

 

[OnPoint]

I think Raid might be more effective than you guys think. The defending player will always wonder if the attacking player has a Raid spell in hand, if they are playing a Raid deck. Bluffing that properly could mean free damage during attacks where you don't have it.

 

[ThLunarian]

I think Raid might be more effective than you guys think. The defending player will always wonder if the attacking player has a Raid spell in hand, if they are playing a Raid deck. Bluffing that properly could mean free damage during attacks where you don't have it.

Aren't most of the Raid spells sorcery speed? I don't recall any combat tricks off the top of my head. Generally Raid shouldn't affect how the opponent blocks at all; raid only cares about whether you attacked, not whether you connected

 

[ultron87]

I expect people will be blocking more often in this set then they would otherwise. "Chump" attacking to get Raid going will be a pretty common occurrence, so it'll start to seem pretty reasonable to block a 1/1 with your Morph and not feel like you're about to get wrecked. So then this makes combat tricks better since people are more likely to run into them.

 

[OnPoint]

Aren't most of the Raid spells sorcery speed? I don't recall any combat tricks off the top of my head. Generally Raid shouldn't affect how the opponent blocks at all; raid only cares about whether you attacked, not whether you connected

I didn't mean through combat tricks. I guess id have to read the Raid spells again. Maybe it would cause people to preemptively use removal before combat.

 

[ultron87]

I want to draft a deck that is just Prowess dudes and 10 Defiant Strikes.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I'm pretty sure that you'll figure out ways to trigger Raid without too much trouble. The overlap between Prowess and Raid is going to come up a lot in Limited.

EDIT: Information is coming out about the Pre-release seeded boosters. It looks like they're deliberately seeding the boosters to help you play the clan you chose; it sounds like you're always getting an on-clan charm, banner, and tri-land in the seeded pack, plus two more uncommons (which may or may not be deliberately in your colors; not sure).

Also the pre-release promo is just a datestamped foil. No alternate art, which makes sense given that there are 40 instead of 5.

 

[keeblerdrow]

Raid cards also come up a lot in colors that create sacrificial tokens and attackers that have an upside when they die. I don't love a ton of the effects raids givew, but that 2 damage card seems like the perfect way to finish off a courser that just blocked your 2/1.

My plan is to brew green strategies once I get my cards in and to have some solid courser based decks for weeks 3 and 4. Weeks 1 and 2, though, I'm showing up with mono-red aggro and mono-black aggro to FNM. New standards are always weak to aggro because usually people want to play with the new toys and can't balance that with defending against the army of idiots you bring to the table.

 

[Firemind]

I'm pretty sure that you'll figure out ways to trigger Raid without too much trouble. The overlap between Prowess and Raid is going to come up a lot in Limited.

EDIT: Information is coming out about the Pre-release seeded boosters. It looks like they're deliberately seeding the boosters to help you play the clan you chose; it sounds like you're always getting an on-clan charm, banner, and tri-land in the seeded pack, plus two more uncommons (which may or may not be deliberately in your colors; not sure).

Also the pre-release promo is just a datestamped foil. No alternate art, which makes sense given that there are 40 instead of 5.

So which clan has the most insane bomb (or best chance at an insane bomb)?

 

[ElyrionX]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";130102487]Just proxy up your ideas and test it out instead of waiting to netdeck later on. It's more fun, I promise![/QUOTE]

I don't know. Proxy seems like a real hassle with the printing and all. I'm not a fan of proxies at all in the first place.

 

[Firemind]

Just write the name, casting cost and power/toughness on the backside of the card with a marker.

 

[y2dvd]

Temur
M - Surrank DragonClaw
R - Avalanche Tusker
R - Savage Knuckleblade
U - Bear's Companion
U - Pine Walker
C - Snowhorn Rider
C - Woolly Loxodon
C - Glacial Stalker


Abzan
M - Anafenza, the Foremost
R - Ivorytusk Fortress
R - Seige Rhino
U - Arament Corps
C - Abzan Guide

Jeskai
M - Narset, Enlightened Master
M - Pearl Lake Ancient
R - Mantis Rider
R - Sage of the Inward Eye
R - Thousand Wind
R - Dragon-Style Twins
U - Riverwheel Arialist
C - Efreer Weaponmaster

Sultai
M - Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
M - Hooded Hydra
R - Kheru, Lich Lord
R - Rakshasa Vizier
R - Necropolis Fiend
C - Abomination of Gudul
C - Hooting Mandrills

Mardu
M - Zurgo Helmsmasher
M - Wingmate Roc
R - Butcher of the Horde
U - Mardu Roughrider
U - Bellowing Saddlebrute

Temur still comes out on top. Good chances to land bombs in all rarities.
Jeskai surprisingly have a lot of bombs, though I'm not sure if you want to classify 3/3 and 3/4 fliers as bombs.

Spoiler

I really should get back to work. =X

 

[Angry Grimace]

^^ Despite the fact he has Raid, I think Wingmate Roc is an Abzan and Mardu card.

So which clan has the most insane bomb (or best chance at an insane bomb)?

Temur has Sagu Mauler and Knuckleblade
Abzan has Siege Rhino, High Sentinels and Anafenza herself
Mardu has Butcher of the Horde (and Zurgo)

I don't think the other clans have much. I mean, Mantis Rider is decent, but its not really a "bomb" so to speak. I mean, I guess like Necropolis Fiend is kind of bomby.

 

[ultron87]

I don't think you can get the non-Khan Mythics in your promo pack even though some of them are clan marked. At least that's how it has worked in all the previous prereleases.

 

[ironmang]

Since I'm terrible at finding information online I'll as you guys. Is there going to be a guaranteed promo of the chosen colors for each prerelease pack like there used to be? Or is it just a seeded pack that is somewhat randomized with no guaranteed promo and 5 boosters?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Since I'm terrible at finding information online I'll as you guys. Is there going to be a guaranteed promo of the chosen colors for each prerelease pack like there used to be? Or is it just a seeded pack that is somewhat randomized with no guaranteed promo and 5 boosters?

No there are 40 different cards that can be "your" promo. You'll get one of those cards, though.

Its because everyone got pissed off in Journey into Nyx where the promo had Dawnbringer Charioteers, which was overpowered vs. the other ones.

 

[Firemind]

There should be a clan-specific rare in the seeded pack. And, yeah, I don't think you can get mythics besides the Khans in the seeded pack, so no Broodmate Roc for you! (hopefully)

 

[ultron87]

Interestingly it sounds like the "promo" this time around is the only rare in that seeded pack. So we only get one on-color rare this time instead of the promo + another one. Really they've just cheaped us out of actual promos and guaranteed us a foil. That is probably better for the play experience at the Prerelease, but I will miss alt-art promos.

 

[Angry Grimace]

There should be a clan-specific rare in the seeded pack. And, yeah, I don't think you can get mythics besides the Khans in the seeded pack, so no Broodmate Roc for you! (hopefully)

That card is way too good in limited and constructed to be a 4 dollar mythic. But what do I know?

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Interestingly it sounds like the "promo" this time around is the only rare in that seeded pack. So we only get one on-color rare this time instead of the promo + another one. Really they've just cheaped us out of actual promos and guaranteed us a foil. That is probably better for the play experience at the Prerelease, but I will miss alt-art promos.

Yeah, they've sacrificed "getting cool stuff" for "making things balanced."

Time will tell if that was the right decision.

 

[kirblar]

Yeah, they've sacrificed "getting cool stuff" for "making things balanced."

Time will tell if that was the right decision.

It was, the guaranteed promo card was starting to make people just not want to play prereleases. Having 40 different ones is a neat thing for the collectors.

The promo, btw, was the intro pack rare- which is unplayable anyway. (In constructed.) Now you can get real promos.

 

[ironmang]

Yeah, they've sacrificed "getting cool stuff" for "making things balanced."

Time will tell if that was the right decision.

At least there's reasoning behind this unlike the judge and player reward promos.

 

[kirblar]

At least there's reasoning behind this unlike the judge and player reward promos.

From what Lems has alluded to on Reddit, the Judge Promo thing was "we cannot legally do this anymore" as a massive factor.

 

[Firemind]

I miss the time where we had gotten the likes of Wurmcoil Engine and Emrakul as promos.

 

[ThLunarian]

I'm coming around on Mantis Rider. I think that thing may be really, really good. I have no data to back this up, it's just intuition; however I think SCG's 2 dollar price on it is very low

 

[kirblar]

I'm coming around on Mantis Rider. I think that thing may be really, really good. I have no data to back this up, it's just intuition; however I think SCG's 2 dollar price on it is very low

Everything is super low because the set is stacked and the dealers already made their money back on $20+ fetch preorders.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Everything is super low because the set is stacked and the dealers already made their money back on $20+ fetch preorders.

I caved and preordered my Windswept Heaths. I get that they'll cost half as much in two months, but that's two months I don't have the card in my deck.

 

[Lucario]

At least there's reasoning behind this unlike the judge and player reward promos.

It still pisses me off that they promised MPR would be replaced with new ways of getting player rewards at stores, then proceeded to make every single promo program worse.

At least we aren't getting unbalanced intro pack rares anymore. Was getting tired of there being an obvious best choice every prerelease.

 

[ThLunarian]

Everything is super low because the set is stacked and the dealers already made their money back on $20+ fetch preorders.

Yeah of course, but even relative to the rest of the set, the Rider seems super under-priced. I'm remembering how Boros Reckoner was a 30 dollar card for a while, and if this card finds a home, I think it could get up there - probably not to 30 dollars, but maybe 15ish.

 

[kirblar]

It still pisses me off that they promised MPR would be replaced with new ways of getting player rewards at stores, then proceeded to make every single promo program worse.

At least we aren't getting unbalanced intro pack rares anymore. Was getting tired of there being an obvious best choice every prerelease.

MPR was done by hand. Enormous waste of time/resources. It's like the line from "Dave" about the car program- "So you're telling me this is a program to make people who already bought your stuff feel better about their purchase?"

Yeah of course, but even relative to the rest of the set, the Rider seems super under-priced. I'm remembering how Boros Reckoner was a 30 dollar card for a while, and if this card finds a home, I think it could get up there - probably not to 30 dollars, but maybe 15ish.

I don't think UWR is good enough right now.

 

[Firemind]

UWR is missing value cards. No, I will not play nor will I ever play Divination.

 

[Lucario]

MPR was done by hand. Enormous waste of time/resources. It's like the line from "Dave" about the car program- "So you're telling me this is a program to make people who already bought your stuff feel better about their purchase?"

MPR was a huge and unnecessary expense, and it absolutely wouldn't be realistic for MPR to exist with the current playerbase.

That doesn't make it any less frustrating for the players who were told that the funds would be used for more in-store promotional programs.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Yeah of course, but even relative to the rest of the set, the Rider seems super under-priced. I'm remembering how Boros Reckoner was a 30 dollar card for a while, and if this card finds a home, I think it could get up there - probably not to 30 dollars, but maybe 15ish.

Jeskai and Sultai are both wedges I think aren't ready. I mean, I don't know what the pros are planning to run (which will obviously shape the meta), but right now it looks like Temur and Abzan midrange, Mono-black aggro, Mardu blitz and potentially a mono-green midrange thing.

I just don't see UWR being particularly good right now. Just looking at the cards, I don't know if a control deck is there. Blue just seems overly weak in this set.

 

[Firemind]

Prognostic Sphinx is strong and Keranos is obviously strong, but then they printed Utter End

 

[Angry Grimace]

Prognostic Sphinx is strong and Keranos is obviously strong, but then they printed Utter End

Not to mention Erase 1-shotting Keranos.

 

[ultron87]

I don't think Erase being around really changes much for the playability of Gods. Deicide was already around and Erase being one less mana isn't that huge.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I don't think Erase being around really changes much for the playability of Gods. Deicide was already around and Erase being one less mana isn't that huge.

Why would you play Deicide for double the mana though? It doesn't seem like there's a gonna be a deck leaning on Gods the way Mono-U did and Erase seems good for murdering Courser of Kruphix for a single mana.

 

[kirblar]

MPR was a huge and unnecessary expense, and it absolutely wouldn't be realistic for MPR to exist with the current playerbase.

That doesn't make it any less frustrating for the players who were told that the funds would be used for more in-store promotional programs.

They've said they're funding 4-5 programs for what MPR cost. DOTP promos probably one of them, Prerelease stuff is another.

 

[ultron87]

Why would you play Deicide for double the mana though? It doesn't seem like there's a gonna be a deck leaning on Gods the way Mono-U did and Erase seems good for murdering Courser of Kruphix for a single mana.

Right. Yeah, Erase is probably the better choice unless you're seeing a lot of Thassas or whatever. I wasn't saying that Erase was better or worse than Deicide. Just that its legality isn't some death knell for the Gods. Some form of instant speed enchantment hate was going to end up in sideboards no matter what, whether it costs one or two mana.