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[WanderingWind]

I tried to feel some kind of way about the Zach Jesse thing and I just can't dig up any sort of sympathy for a admitted violent rapist. This wasn't a guy who is potentially being falsely accused. This is, like so many Redditors are quick to jump on, some fringe case where some guy was peeing in public and got wrongfully thrown on a sex offender list.

No, this is a guy who raped an unconscious woman in the ass while she was too drunk to fight back. He then lied about it until forensic evidence showed the sex couldn't have been consensual. She was a virgin, so her first experience with something that should be wonderful and pleasurable will forever be associated with pain, humiliation and degradation.

He served 3 months of deferred work release time for his crimes. He did not spend time any real time behind bars. Which admittedly, is neither here nor there when it comes to the relationship between him and WotC, but it's very much an influence on how much of a shit I give about Zach Jesse being banned from competitive play.

He can still buy, trade and sell cards. He can go down to his LCS and play some casual Magic. He can form a playgroup. He can open a new account on MTGO and play online. He can play Cockatrice. He is only banned from officially sanctioned events, which are wholly under the purvey of WotC. It's their game. They get to set the rules.

Now, the seizing of his account is probably a matter for the courts to decide. I doubt a private company is allowed to seize assets without due process. But as to any hurt feelings he may have toward WotC?

Fuck him.

 

[darkside31337]

He can still buy, trade and sell cards. He can go down to his LCS and play some casual Magic. He can form a playgroup. He can open a new account on MTGO and play online. He can play Cockatrice. He is only banned from officially sanctioned events, which are wholly under the purvey of WotC. It's their game. They get to set the rules.

Now, the seizing of his account is probably a matter for the courts to decide. I doubt a private company is allowed to seize assets without due process. But as to any hurt feelings he may have toward WotC?

Fuck him.

He actually can't do that. They seized his MTGO account that he already had. Which seems illegal but I'm sure its not based on their TOS nobody reads. The whole thing is a stark reminder that you don't actually own any of your MTGO cards and they will cease to be of any value at all whenever Wizards chooses.

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";170691647]Someone play me on cockatrice.

I'm freaking out looking at Horizon Canopy's price chart and need distracting.[/QUOTE]
It is nutsoid that wotc refuses to reprint this or Grove outside of that one super limited run.

 

[WanderingWind]

He actually can't do that. They seized his MTGO account that he already had. Which seems illegal but I'm sure its not based on their TOS nobody reads. The whole thing is a stark reminder that you don't actually own any of your MTGO cards and they will cease to be of any value at all whenever Wizards chooses.

Sure he can. Prepaid credit cards and his loving wife's name is all he needs.

But TOS are often stuffed with bullshit clauses that never hold up. I did see the line in the TOS about how they can terminate services at any time, but I feel like any reasonable lawyer could successful sway a judge into allowing some sort of compensation being rendered based on the fact that the digital cards are very much assets.

But, then again, who fucking knows. Apple could probably break into my house in the middle of the night and break my iPad when they feel it's time for me to upgrade, based on the state of corporate law in America.

I was told that they would do an inventory of the collection. They would use this data to form the basis for an amount that they would give me in good faith in exchange for my account. It was stressed, however, that they had an unfettered right to simply not provide me any sort of compensation whatsoever, if they chose. To their credit, they have made me an offer that does not sound entirely unreasonable. My collection dates back to 2005, however, and so I have very little concept of what is actually in the account.

 

[kirblar]

eric froehlich ‏@efropoker 1m1 minute ago

FWIW (and 100% personal speculation), WotC can’t ban from Twitch but can from MTGO. They may not want convicted rapist streaming their game.
0 retweets 1 favorite

This is exactly what it is.

 

[WanderingWind]

I love all the rage on Reddit right now. "Well, I'm never going to play Magic again! That'll show 'em!" Who the fuck do they think they're fooling? Like corporate is going to read that and go "huh, guess we made a mistake?" No, what they're saying is:

WotC "Christ, we have a lot of sociopaths playing our game. Well, good riddance to the 2 people who will actually follow up on that threat. We'll try to survive."

Next week: "Check out the first leaked spoiler for BFZ. It's Nahiri. With a new hat!"

Community: "MY BODY IS READY ZOMG PREORDER NOW!!!"

 

[Sequence Six]

So that thopter land means the remaining for are probably going to be some form of utility, right? Makes me wonder how much is going to be new and how much is going to be old.

lands lands lands, I like 'em

 

[Angry Grimace]

Sure he can. Prepaid credit cards and his loving wife's name is all he needs.

But TOS are often stuffed with bullshit clauses that never hold up. I did see the line in the TOS about how they can terminate services at any time, but I feel like any reasonable lawyer could successful sway a judge into allowing some sort of compensation being rendered based on the fact that the digital cards are very much assets.

But, then again, who fucking knows. Apple could probably break into my house in the middle of the night and break my iPad when they feel it's time for me to upgrade, based on the state of corporate law in America.

"You don't own the cards" would never hold up in court anywhere in America.

That's my official position as Magic Lawyer.

 

["God's Beard!"]

So Elves is a real Standard deck. I'm thoroughly impressed. Just spent half a dozen games getting run over.

Deck just always has like 5 cards in hand. Drown and Languish don't even win games like against other low-curve aggro decks. And what number of disdainful strokes/dissolves are you really willing to play? Maybe two strokes? Is thoughtseize good? Deck's hard to fight with my midrangey and control decks.

 

[Wichu]

I disagree with Jesse's ban. He raped someone ten years ago, and there's no way to spin that, but he served his time and as far as I can tell he has reformed. He's not the person he was ten years ago.

If he committed a crime recently, then I'd support the banning, but I'd like to think people can change.

But ignoring Jesse in particular, the banning makes me feel uneasy. Is it right for you to get banned because someone dug up your past and plastered it over the Internet? This obviously wouldn't have happened had Jesse not Top 8ed a GP.

If you have a criminal conviction, should you be worried about doing too well in a tournament and getting banned?

 

[phazedplasma]

The issue I have with Jesse is that the only reason people are on his side is because he has handled this in a pretty upstanding way and has done his best to get ahead of it.

We only have his side of the story as well, as we've just let him shape everything and paint himself as someone whos done his best to "reform".

He doesnt act mad or angry or immature about anything. If he did Reddit would have been down his throat and he would have gotten this ban back when everything surfaced.

@WanderingWind where are those details from about his case?

If true thats another example of him painting this whole issue his way. In his original reddit post all he really described was what he was accused of and convicted of. He weirdly admitted what he did while distancing himself completely from it. That makes me uncomfortable.

I also think that magic is growing faster than wizards initially realized, especially in regards to coverage and public exposure. There are obvious growing pains to this that we are witnessing right now.

 

[Angry Grimace]

So that thopter land means the remaining for are probably going to be some form of utility, right? Makes me wonder how much is going to be new and how much is going to be old.

lands lands lands, I like 'em

I don't know if there are any lands yet, but I figured Mana Confluence would see a reprint, but I don't know.

 

[WanderingWind]

The issue I have with Jesse is that the only reason people are on his side is because he has handled this in a pretty upstanding way and has done his best to get ahead of it.

We only have his side of the story as well, as we've just let him shape everything and paint himself as someone whos done his best to "reform".

He doesnt act mad or angry or immature about anything. If he did Reddit would have been down his throat and he would have gotten this ban back when everything surfaced.

@WanderingWind where are those details from about his case?

If true thats another example of him painting this whole issue his way. In his original reddit post all he really described was what he was accused of and convicted of. He weirdly admitted what he did while distancing himself completely from it. That makes me uncomfortable.

I also think that magic is growing faster than wizards initially realized, especially in regards to coverage and public exposure. There are obvious growing pains to this that we are witnessing right now.

From the article written about him that he linked in his original Reddit post.

 

[kirblar]

If true thats another example of him painting this whole issue his way. In his original reddit post all he really described was what he was accused of and convicted of. He weirdly admitted what he did while distancing himself completely from it. That makes me uncomfortable.

It should make anyone reading it really uncomfortable. There's admitting responsibility, and then there's "Hey look at all this other privileged upper-middle class white guy stuff i did!, lets talk about that instead!"

 

[ultron87]

I was mad at myself for totally falling for that Reddit post he made the first time I read it. I had to look at it again to realize that he barely mentioned the actual thing he did, expressed no remorse, and mostly just said how great a guy he was now. Ugh.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Got a list? I'm not familiar enough with the new cards to necessarily understand it.

I don't have the list, but from what I played I'm guessing it looked like this:

CoCo Krispies

31 Elves

• 4 Elvish Mystic
• 4 Gnarlroot Trapper
• 4 Elvish Visionary
• 4 Dwynen's Elite
• 4 Shaman of the Pack
• 4 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
• 1 Reclamation Sage
• 4 Sylvan Messenger
• 2 Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen

7 Spells

• 4 Collected Company
• 3 Chord of Calling

22 Lands

• 4 Llanowar Wastes
• 4 Temple of Malady
• 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
• 10 Forest
• 3 Swamp

It just keeps drawing cards and drawing cards and drawing cards. I don't know if there should be a payoff like Obelisk of Urd or more silver bullets or disruption, but from what I played, this seemed like the shell of a strong Standard competitor.

When your opponent draws 3-4 cards off a Messenger you just feel like scooping on the spot.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Too bad like 100% of it is shit in Origins and I don't want to buy any Origins.

(That deck looks awesome).

...but that deck doesn't look expensive at all, so I will probably try it out at a FNM. I have CoCo and Chord playsets already and all of the lands in that deck. Nissa is gonna be a pain, though.

 

[Joe Molotov]

There's so many Thopter cards in this set, I hope they at least had the decency to make the Thopter token look cool.

 

[phazedplasma]

im so excited about a UR thopter draft deck. I might force that every draft.

 

["God's Beard!"]

If I had to build a preliminary sideboard it'd probably be something like this:

• 4 Thoughtseize
• 1 Duress
• 2 Plummet
• 1 Reclamation Sage
• 1 Back to Nature
• 1 Obelisk of Urd
• 4 Eyeblight Assassin
• 1 Gilt-Leaf Winnower

Deck is definitely awesome.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";170712767]If I had to build a preliminary sideboard it'd probably be something like this:

• 4 Thoughtseize
• 1 Duress
• 2 Plummet
• 1 Reclamation Sage
• 1 Back to Nature
• 1 Obelisk of Urd
• 4 Eyeblight Assassin
• 1 Gilt-Leaf Winnower

Deck is definitely awesome.[/QUOTE]

There is literally no removal, so I don't know.

It's a little similar to LSV's little build:

Creatures (30)

4 Elvish Mystic
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Den Protector
2 Sylvan Messenger
4 Gnarlroot Trapper
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Shaman of the Pack
4 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 Dywnen, Gilt-Leaf Daen

Sorcery (3)

3 Thoughtseize

Instant (6)

4 Collected Company
2 Murderous Cut

Land (21)

4 Llanowar Wastes
3 Temple of Malady
2 Mana Confluence
3 Swamp
9 Forest

 

[darkside31337]

There's so many Thopter cards in this set, I hope they at least had the decency to make the Thopter token look cool.

rest of the tokens there - http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/arcana/tokens-origins-2015-07-01

 

[Haly]

Lol that Jace emblem.

 

[Joe Molotov]

rest of the tokens there - http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/arcana/tokens-origins-2015-07-01

Ah, I hadn't seen that yet. Not bad, those look pretty good.

The Goblin tokens look like crap, tho. :'( Gonna keep using my DTK Goblins.

Edit: Wait, we haven't even seen a Goblin generator yet in Origins, have we? Krenko, Mob Boss reprint incoming?

 

["God's Beard!"]

Ah, I hadn't seen that yet. Not bad, those look pretty good.

The Goblin tokens look like crap, tho. :'( Gonna keep using my DTK Goblins.

Edit: Wait, we haven't even seen a Goblin generator yet in Origins, have we? Krenko, Mob Boss reprint incoming.

To be fair, the DTK goblin is pretty good.

 

[Joe Molotov]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";170714405]To be fair, the DTK goblin is pretty good.[/QUOTE]

They look like tiny little bloodthirsty Yetis, they're so kawaii. ^o^

 

[Wulfric]

Unf, I need to resist the urge to play CoCo for the rest of the summer. I love how Podless Collected plays, and Origins might just be the boost it needs for standard.

I know Origins is the big thing right now, but there's a good chance we'll see Zendikar fetches in BFZ, correct? Not sure if I should preorder a Japanese box right now or wait until it's a sure thing.

 

[kirblar]

Unf, I need to resist the urge to play CoCo for the rest of the summer. I love how Podless Collected plays, and Origins might just be the boost it needs for standard.

I know Origins is the big thing right now, but there's a good chance we'll see Zendikar fetches in BFZ, correct? Not sure if I should preorder a Japanese box right now or wait until it's a sure thing.

Enemy painlands make me think we're not going to, but who knows.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I just cast CoCo in response to my opponent's Seimic Rupture and hit two Shaman of the Pack for 16 damage lol

This deck is super fun.

 

[Purdy]

Fuck me that subreddit's defence of that horrendous cunt is ridiculous. As a newcomer to magic it is somewhat off putting.

I get some people want consistency from WotC but others are trivialising what he committed to try and make a point.

I hope WotC make some rules now for people with these kinds of records and be rid of them all, I sincerely hope then people would be fine with it because it looks a whole lot like defending a rapist over there

 

[Firemind]

Aw. I had to squint my eyes to discover they didn't design and print a strictly superior Mana Leak.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I'm not interested in continuing to punish people for something they already did the time for as a matter of principle. I'm also heavily against the sex offender registry. That said, Wizards has the right to ban him, and people have the right to disagree with Wizards or whether Zach's original punishment was sufficient.

The real takeaway in this situation is that Drew Levin maliciously dragged out someone's decade-old skeletons without provocation and succeeded in losing that person not only their hobby but their job.

 

[Firemind]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";170724515]I just cast CoCo in response to my opponent's Seimic Rupture and hit two Shaman of the Pack for 16 damage lol

This deck is super fun.[/QUOTE]
That's some straight up bloodbraid villainy shit.

 

[Purdy]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";170725886]I'm not interested in continuing to punish people for something they already did the time for as a matter of principle. I'm also heavily against the sex offender registry. That said, Wizards has the right to ban him, and people have the right to disagree with Wizards or whether Zach's original punishment was sufficient.

The real takeaway in this situation is that Drew Levin maliciously dragged out someone's decade-old skeletons without provocation and succeeded in losing that person not only their hobby but their job.[/QUOTE]

He didn't really do time though did he.

He vaginally and anally raped a girl who was too intoxicated to fight back and slumped over a toilet. I'll certainly feel a lot better without him near any community I wish to be part of.

That said it needs to be properly enforced and not just because, as you've said someone started a witch hunt, I wouldn't mind seeing him go too.

 

["God's Beard!"]

That's some straight up bloodbraid villainy shit.

You know that a deck is good when you're willing to add more to your 1 for 4 because you can play five more permanents next turn anyway.

I do agree with Grimace that there should probably be one or two pieces of removal in the board. Hornet Nest is kind of annoying.

He didn't really do time though did he.

That's really not for me to decide.

 

[red13th]

Will they release the full spoiler tomorrow?

 

[kirblar]

This is a thing where the policy, by necessity, needs to be on a case by case basis. That is not going to make the mass army of literalists/libertarians in the MTG community happy, no matter what is said.

Yeah, full spoiler tomorrow.

 

[Sequence Six]

Yeah, full spoiler tomorrow.

Give me more colorless utility lands or give me a delicious lunch, I'll take either

 

[Hackworth]

They're really pushing Thopters right now aren't they? Red Blue artifacts sounds like some fun even if it's casual as hell.

Fuck me that subreddit's defence of that horrendous cunt is ridiculous. As a newcomer to magic it is somewhat off putting.

I get some people want consistency from WotC but others are trivialising what he committed to try and make a point.

I hope WotC make some rules now for people with these kinds of records and be rid of them all, I sincerely hope then people would be fine with it because it looks a whole lot like defending a rapist over there

One of the reasons I left my old Magic forum is because there were a bunch of users who kept shouting down rape victims who said banning this guy made them feel safer.

Honestly I'm glad Wizards went after him.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

A few thoughts on the Zach Jesse thing, since I'm overseas this week and just woke up:

1) I believe that a business should be allowed to refuse service to someone if they believe that it would hurt their brand image to do so. However, I generally believe this right should extend only to actions which could be construed as being as actively promoting something that you don't support. The most lighthearted and trivial example would be a Dallas Cowboys fan who runs a T-shirt printing business refusing an order for a run of NY Giants t-shirts. I don't believe you should be allowed to refuse service based on who the person is, but you should also not be forced to be a vehicle for their rights to free speech. That's generally where I think your right to refuse service ends.

I tried applying this mental framework to this case. It falls short - mostly because this isn't a case of who Zach is, but what he did (a decade ago). And this isn't just a business transaction - this is an ongoing relationship where the player involved could end up almost literally being a poster boy if he does enough winning. It's also worth noting that since WotC won't comment publicly with any real information (likely due to their lawyers trying to avoid a lawsuit), I have this feeling that I'm not getting the real story. In short, I don't have a belief system that really covers this case; I can only react emotionally, and I tend to distrust my initial emotional response to things (or at least be overly critical of them).

2) It's not really up to us, the masses, to decide if Zach was properly punished for what he did. Statements akin to "he practically got away scot free with rape" seem to imply that you believe its your job to continue punish him until he's had faced proper consequences (according to you) for his actions. That's a really dangerous mindset to have.

3) So I guess what really bothers me is that WotC won't actually publish real guidelines for behavior. On top of that, Zach actually was allowed to play - until he actually won and Drew Levin started a brigade against him. Only then the result was a ban. It feels like WotC is capitulating to a social media campaign instead of following a policy. If they don't want people convicted of violent crimes playing the game, then just say so! I certainly wouldn't be upset by that - it makes a lot of sense! But the way it's being handled right now is not right.

I'll just reiterate what I said on Twitter here - If you want to make a statement about what you value, make an actual statement. Don't silently pass judgement and hide behind PR spin.

I'm sorry, but if the intent is to make me feel safe, that backfired. I don't feel safe when the policy is to ban people from ever playing Magic again for arbitrary reasons with no explanation because a small Twitter mob was unhappy about it. The fact that he was allowed to play and then banned when he t8ed something just adds to the problem.

 

["God's Beard!"]

 

[red13th]

To those better at MtG flavour than me, what's Vryn's theme?

 

[Joe Molotov]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";170732423]

[/QUOTE]

I'm still not sure how I feel about this situation, but I still laughed at this.

 

[The Technomancer]

To those better at MtG flavour than me, what's Vryn's theme?

Uhm, there are rings

And mana pulses through them, providing phenomenal cosmic power to the mages who can harness it

I'm not sure beyond that. It didn't get nearly the worldbuilding Kaladesh did

 

[Firemind]

To those better at MtG flavour than me, what's Vryn's theme?

itsamystery

At first I thought the thopters were part of Vryn, but apparently it's Kaladesh and its artificers. Which is kind of interesting. If Kaladesh has a steampunk theme, then what is Vryn and its mage rings?

 

[SigmasonicX]

Uhm, there are rings

And mana pulses through them, providing phenomenal cosmic power to the mages who can harness it

I'm not sure beyond that. It didn't get nearly the worldbuilding Kaladesh did

There are constant wars over the rings. Guys like Alhammaret profess to be trying to bring an end to the wars, but privately claim to just be trying to minimize collateral damage to the rings, but are actually just keeping the wars going themselves so their services will always be necessary, making them the Patriots.

 

[Hackworth]

Uhm, there are rings

And mana pulses through them, providing phenomenal cosmic power to the mages who can harness it

I'm not sure beyond that. It didn't get nearly the worldbuilding Kaladesh did

There's also an ongoing war between at least two sides for control of the rings.
That's what I get for not reloading before posting I guess.

 

[Jhriad]

There are constant wars over the rings. Guys like Alhammaret profess to be trying to bring an end to the wars, but privately claim to just be trying to minimize collateral damage to the rings, but are actually just keeping the wars going themselves so their services will always be necessary, making them the Patriots.

Snake, what's wrong? Snake? Snaaaake!

Spoiler

Now that's a Magic story arc I can get behind.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Endless War World

 

[red13th]

Vryn seems lame, maybe not Regatha level but bad still.