The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I doubt anyone at Wizards remembers the format was called EDH. I bet they were...induced to forget
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Magic: the Gathering |OT4| Izzet Me; Izzet You? A Love Story
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
- Status
I doubt anyone at Wizards remembers the format was called EDH. I bet they were...induced to forget
Too many limes.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The Highlander TV show though, which inexplicably ran for 119 fucking episodes, was surprisingly okay
A Serious Man
Member
Just lost to an infinite Temur Sabertooth, Nykthos, Voyaging Satyr, Temur Ascendancy, Karametra's Acolyte combo.
He cast Hornet Queen about ten times, I fogged, then he just drew his entire deck with the Ascendancy until he hit his one copy of Crater's Claws and shot me in the face for about 100 (turn 8 btw). The "Just For Fun" lobby is the best sometimes.
He cast Hornet Queen about ten times, I fogged, then he just drew his entire deck with the Ascendancy until he hit his one copy of Crater's Claws and shot me in the face for about 100 (turn 8 btw). The "Just For Fun" lobby is the best sometimes.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
What they needed to do was make Khans allied and Dragons wedge.
Contracting the block factions is obviously a dumb idea in retrospect.
Contracting the block factions is obviously a dumb idea in retrospect.
keeblerdrow
Member
Now imagine needing to dedicate sideboard slots for that deck every week at FNM. Welcome to my local meta.
All local metas should have a bunch of crazy decks. It's impossible to go an FNM here without running into one or two "out there" decks.
Recently at my FNMs, I've seen (to varying degrees of success):
Temur Ascendancy Combo
U/G Yisan Devotion (super sweet, won the DTK Game Day)
Sultai Living Lore Control (Worst Fears, baby)
Deflecting Palm/Mindswipe.dek (stop hitting yourself!)
Phytotitan Control (Phytotitan + Life's Legacy = hilarity)
G/W Renown/Bolster (was actually pretty solid - the guy went 4-0 the one time he played it)
Sultai Assault Formation
U/G Morph
Atarka Combo (the combo is Atarka, World Render and your face)
Chromantiflayer (sadly seems to have died out with the advent of Languish)
U/W Artifact Control
Demonic Pact/Daring Thief Combo
Sultai Phenax Mill
U/R Goggles Mill (the goggles, they do something!)
R/B Value Aggro (stuff like Pain Seer and Defiler of Souls for piles of card advantage on top of early beats)
Abzan Heroic
as well as the usual bunch of tier 1 and 2 decks (lots of Mono-Red, Abzan, and Heroic, but surprisingly I don't think anyone plays Ensoul).
And that doesn't even include my decks. Planeswalker Whip/Graveyard Toolbox, Skybind Bellower, B/W Bestow, G/W Phenax (the actual best), Bant Morph, G/W Walls, Wincon Tribal, U/W Starfield etc. I think I've only actually won using the Graveyard Toolbox deck (right before Origins came out, so it wasn't Planeswalker Whip yet), but I usually go 3-1 and have 4-0ed a couple of times.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
My meta has me running See the Dragonlords.
This looks fun. How big is your FNM usually?
Etrian Oddity
Member
Ferocious was the least liked? Over shitty Outlast? Come on.
I'm definitely looking forward to Return to Tarkir, though. The path for an allied Dragons -> wedge Clans set is just too perfectly set up already.
Naw, I like clans as wedges. Makes it feel more "cultured," whereas the shard strikes me as more natural. So I'd actually have put it the opposite as how you suggested.
I'm definitely looking forward to Return to Tarkir, though. The path for an allied Dragons -> wedge Clans set is just too perfectly set up already.
SigmasonicX
Member
I feel like the best way to do it would be:
Large set: Dragons appear in monocolor only (no Elder Dragon cards), humans and other non-dragons appear in enemy colors, with some wedges.
Small set: Ally colored Elder Dragons, more wedge cards
Large set: Dragons appear in monocolor only (no Elder Dragon cards), humans and other non-dragons appear in enemy colors, with some wedges.
Small set: Ally colored Elder Dragons, more wedge cards
Infinite Stars
Member
Outlast at least was semi unique IMO, sure the mechanic was botched(Outlast should have been a kickeresque cost, or something that isn't effectively "Wait an additional turn for this to become useful if you have no other way to get counters.") but the idea of a Super family who can have Flying First-Strike Deathtouch Trample if they have counters is hilariously fun. Compare that to " I played a fatty and now I get rewards" from Temur.Ferocious was the least liked? Over shitty Outlast? Come on.
Naw, I like clans as wedges. Makes it feel more "cultured," whereas the shard strikes me as more natural. So I'd actually have put it the opposite as how you suggested.
I'm definitely looking forward to Return to Tarkir, though. The path for an allied Dragons -> wedge Clans set is just too perfectly set up already.
Horatorobor
Member
What to sideboard against storm in affinity?
Ethersworn canonist? I find it very susceptible to bolts and such.
Ethersworn canonist? I find it very susceptible to bolts and such.
Thorn of amethyst is pretty good.
Canonist is certainly good. If you want a removal proof answer you can get Rule of Law instead. Some other less specialized answers are the graveyard hate stuff like Tormods Crypt and Relic of Progenitus. Emptying the yard can slow them down enough for you to kill them.
Etrian Oddity
Member
But how is that any different from "I just cast a spell and now I get rewards" from Jeskai? :\
Temur, for how underplayed it is, did a terrific job of making stompy fun and giving itself its own identity. Stubborn Denial is so clutch and I'm gonna cry when it rotates out of Standard.
charlequin
Banned
It's interesting to compare the State of Design for this block to the one from Shards of Alara, which is a dramatically worse block in every conceivable way but get spit-shined like crazy.
I think early on either Rosewater wasn't experienced enough running the team to know how to do a good post mortem or he was concerned about the game's overall performance enough to feel pressure to stay optimistic about stuff. The only time I can really remember him polishing a turd after Zendikar was Avacyn Restored and there seems to be some comprehensive, all-encompassing brain virus that still has everyone in R&D convinced that that was a huge success rather than one of the worst sets of all time.
Yep. Most of the critiques of Dragons were things we covered extensively in here, but this was one that I didn't see brought up but which upon consideration was completely accurate.
Alesha has a cool name, a good illustration, and she's a general in my favorite color combo with a mechanic I submitted in my round-of-100 entry to GDS2 so I pretty much could not disagree more strongly.
Well, at least they obviously realized their mistake before it was completely too late since all the DTK stories are about setting up the return of the clans.
It's kind of amazing how bad they've actually been at this over the new-planes era. Mirrodin and Ravnica at least have an excuse -- they weren't thinking about revisits yet and the stories were written with no design factors taken into account at all, so nobody was there to say "hey don't fuck up the setting in the end." But they kept doing a bad job with it well after that point -- Innistrad changes into a much lamer setting, for example. I wonder how much the three-set block, and especially the story format that Large-Small-Large pushes them into, was a factor in this; maybe they can avoid wrecking up settings they want to return to from now on.
Personally, I use Rule of Law
Etrian Oddity
Member
They did a good job with Theros, though. Ajani is starting an atheist rebellion, and Ashiok is about to weave the plane into a living nightmare.
Not totally sure what you're asking. Could you tell us the cards involved?
divisionbyzorro
Member
I'm not ashamed to say it: I thought Theros block kicked ass. Born of the Gods was a weak middle entry to be sure, but it was bookended with strong sets, sweet cards, fun mechanics, and a Limited environment that I (personally) loved (TTT and JBT anyway). The story was cool, the characters were cool, the Planeswalkers were cool, the Gods were cool, etc. It's too bad that the Devotion payoffs were so good that the Standard decks built themselves and made a pretty same-y Standard for a year, because if it wasn't for that I feel like the block would be remembered a lot more fondly.
Theros proper is a good set. The other two have major problems. Gold gods sucking, Rosewater forcing an obviously terrible mechanic (tribute) on the team, waiting till Journey to introduce Constellation, Inspiration being a retread of a mechanic that already failed once (and without the tools to even make it work well.) Just so much bad.
At least Dragons was the final Tom LaPille set though. Praise Ojutai.
At least Dragons was the final Tom LaPille set though. Praise Ojutai.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I always like Eidolon of Rhetoric. Then Pod got banned. :-(
I don't think Innistrad will have a problem. Yeah the angels are back, but I bet the gothic horror still comes through strong in the inevitable return.
Flavorwise Theros was great. I didn't love the cards though.
Zendikar is the exception because the Zendikar setting was so boring that fucking it up with the Eldrazi made it interesting.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I don't think the two color gods sucked, although maybe they should have been a "return to Theros" thing. Iroas, Phenax and Athreos are maybe the three weak ones.
They saw very very little constructed play despite being a cornerstone of the sets. Compare to the original 5. It's a real issue.
There are definitely more gods, aren't there? They have some space. There is also the possibility of competing new gods given how the gods are formed on that plane.
I actually really liked Atheros and Phenax is hella flavorful. Iroas sucks though.
SigmasonicX
Member
The gods we saw are the only ones. Ajani going around telling everyone to create better gods does leave the door open to brand new ones, though, although I expect that many will be the same. Perhaps we'll have some minor gods at lower rarities to reflect the ones being worshiped by just a few people, since two sets no longer supports 14/15 gods at mythic rare well.
SigmasonicX
Member
While Roman religion has the idea of geniuses (household spirits) and other minor spirits that aren't in Greek religion, the Roman pantheon is the about same as the Greek one within their myths (they were worshiped differently, most obviously with Mars, who was viewed much more positively in Rome than Ares, and had agricultural significance that Ares didn't; this means that Mars actually acts out of character in the myths they took from Greece), except they also include weird extra things like the Magna Mater.
Roman religion was oddly practical. Whenever they saw another religion, they would recognize their own gods within them, taking on different names and guises, and assimilate the relevant customs and myths; this is how Jupiter became associated with Zeus and such. It's not a one-to-one thing, though; Apollo had no counterpart in Roman religion, and thus wasn't incorporated at first. Whenever a crisis struck, the Romans would look to the gods of another religion and see which one was relevant, usually consulting the Oracles of Delphi, and just import that god wholesale. For example, this is how Apollo entered the Roman pantheon, not as another name for a Roman god, but as a foreign deity, with more emphasis placed on his role as a healer to reflect the crisis he was brought in for.
... So what I'm saying is, if they're going to transition Theros to be about Rome, focusing on the gods won't make for an obvious difference. A Roman set would be better handled like Khans with Monguls, with the set being based on a mechanical theme and then given Roman flavor based more on the culture.
charlequin
Banned
Yes, plus the ludicrous but hilarious buddy-cop setup with Dead Elspeth and Dead Xenagos.
I agree with the judgment of THS and all the individual problems, but that's still like 90% problems with Born of the Gods.
It's mostly more concrete, specific problems they created for themselves, like eliminating all the werewolves even though people would flip their shit (lolz) if there weren't proper werewolves in Innistrad Two.
Zendikar is the exception because the setting was designed backwards from the idea of having it wrecked up by Lovecraftian horrors so the boring aspects of Zendikar were there specifically to get blown up anyway.
This is true of almost every real-world culture flavor, honestly. Besides Greek, Norse is pretty much the only ancient world culture where people know enough about the mythology to get the references. There are a bunch of cultures that'd be great options to anchor a block creatively -- Meso-American, Egyptian, early-modern Russia, Indian subcontinent -- but which couldn't swing it as "the" source of inspiration on their own.
Then again, even Theros mixed a flavor theme (Greece) with a mechanical theme (enchantments) so I think this might just be the way they have to go with these things. And Kaladesh (coming soon to a block near you) certainly suggests they're taking this kind of approach.
Horatorobor
Member
Those seem like a good alternative, but should I care more about their graveyard spells or the number of spells they can cast?
The ones that stop them from casting multiple spells a turn are the hard counter, but are also basically only useful against Storm. If you're seeing a lot of Storm in your meta those are fine card to include.
Though they aren't quite as effective the benefit of the graveyard hate stuff is that it also works against other decks that do stuff with the yard. Living End, Goryo's Vengeance and Gift/Rites being the ones where they are a silver bullet, but a Relic, for example, can also be helpful against stuff that depends on Delve spells, Tarmogoyfs, Snapcaster Mage decks, etc. So those become sideboard cards that covers multiple matchups which is pretty valuable.
I'll be honest- unless you are playing in a tournament where you know for a fact Storm will have a significant presance (such as knowing that someone at your weekly 16 man Modern tourney is always on the deck), you should not be dedicating specific sideboard cards against it. You should bring in your Thoughtsiezes, you can bring in your anti graveyard cards like Tormod's Crypt or Relic, and in Game 3, if you are running it and see that they now have Empty the Warrens, you can bring in Illness in the Ranks (though I'm not sure if the card is good enough anymore to stop Twin with Bounding Krasis being immune to it). The matchup is basically just a goldfishing contest, and you have a slight advantage because the Storm player will normally have to do 20 damage to you, as you are not running Shocks or Fetches.
Horatorobor
Member
My last FMN had 2 storm players, I only play my budget affinity, and they comboed out at 1 turn away from lethal.
I usually can ensoul Vault skirge or ornithopter to victory and then cranial platting to finish but the combo dealt too much damage for what I'm used to.
Also, someone there recommended my to get ghostfire blades, but I already have 2 ensouls, should I try with those also?
I usually can ensoul Vault skirge or ornithopter to victory and then cranial platting to finish but the combo dealt too much damage for what I'm used to.
Also, someone there recommended my to get ghostfire blades, but I already have 2 ensouls, should I try with those also?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
You can just win the game immediately with Xenagos ok board haha
The big problem with the 2 color gods was the developmental assumption that gold cards should require 7 devotion instead of 6. Doesn't seem like a lot but it's why they weren't playable.
It really depends on what is in your current list. Between the two I like Ensoul over Ghostfire since it can turn a random Drum or Darksteel Citadel into a big threat. Getting blown out by Path is an issue, but that's the game you're playing. I don't think you want to cut creatures or the engine cards for additional equipment.
Joe Molotov
Member
Return to Theros should be about Christianity taking over, and all the old gods get Zurgo style nerfs.
Agreed, the "it only takes two gold cards to turn them on!" logic was ridiculous.
"God's Beard!"
Member
All the old libraries are burnt down and Theros gets plunged into centuries of ignorance and terrible art. The 2nd set is about a character rediscovering the old culture and creating a renaissance on Theros.
Honestly the old Gods might just stop existing without "devotion", according to the story.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Getting the mono gods on was already a pain in the ass and the two color gods only real advantage was that they came with 2 devotion to begin with - therefore they should have only needed 4 pips to turn on the same as the mono gods. The problem was that developmental somehow convinced themselves 5 extra devotion made more sense because you had 2 options. Except that was stupid because it operated under the assumption that it made any fucking difference whatsoever in a constructed deck.
Huh, we are getting a Magic Puzzle Quest http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1101821
Wow, uh.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked