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Magic: the Gathering |OT4| Izzet Me; Izzet You? A Love Story

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Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Chandra's back in the next set. Oath of the Gatewatch. The 4 pieces of art they showed for it look neat.

Legit don't understand why anyone would care. Chandra has been horrible in every card but one which was outclassed by a dollar rare in FRF. Chandra getting a card in a new set is a thing you should be pissed off about, not happy about.
 
...and that's it? *crickets*

Never watched the worldbuilding panel before? It's always like that.

Also:


CNxGt7kUsAA8o5H.jpg


So, Saturday Morning vibe aside:

CNxGt2vU8AA_DkR.jpg
CNxGt9RUkAAIVfb.jpg
CNxGuCyUEAAIq-J.jpg
CNxGuJ6UsAA7z0m.jpg


There's no way anyone in that promo art isn't getting a PW card in the block, right? Does this mean 3 PWs in OGW (Rosewater did mention that they have a little flexibility on 5-per-block now that there's no core set) or are we getting screwed out of a new Kiora?
 
Legit don't understand why anyone would care. Chandra has been horrible in every card but one which was outclassed by a dollar rare in FRF. Chandra getting a card in a new set is a thing you should be pissed off about, not happy about.

One less planeswalker I have to worry about acquiring for Standard. She's good for that. And to be honest, I'm waiting for a 2-color version, or possible ghostfire version, of her. This would be the best chance for the latter.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Spiritual successor to Avatar: The Last Airbender for sure.
 
Not a fan of the next set name, especially since "Gatewatch" makes me think Ravnica more than Zendikar. Plus, this seems to imply that Ulamog just gets sealed away again.

I'm guessing Sorin is providing the black mana for the seal (since just using 4 out of 5 is weird), but isn't pictured because he isn't getting a card.

EDIT: All the art from the panel is on Twitter, BTW.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I was hoping that the eldrazi would win but after New Phyrexia i shouldn't have expected it to happen

With splitting the Eldrazi into three like this they really have to start wrapping some of this stuff up. They said they want to actually bring things to conclusions and stuff now. I don't think a single Eldrazi makes it undefeated past 2019
 

MjFrancis

Member
I think that argument lacks merit for the same reason we give about Force of Will reprints.

The price of Modern decks is actually fairly static because you can't just reprint SplinterTwin.dec in one go. If Scalding Tarn was reprinted (and don't get me wrong, Scalding Tarn will be reprinted sooner rather than later) and nothing else was reprinted, the price of all the other crap in the deck that wasn't reprinted would just go up even more. There's a reason Snapcaster Mage is $75 now.
I'll counter this single bolded point:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/index/MODERN#paper

Modern Decks Cost 25 Percent More Today than Six Months Ago

Nitpicking the methodology of either chart still leaves one with a net increase of the price of Modern decks and staple cards over the months and years - no matter how much you cut down those numbers. Since I've been playing two years ago the price on those 211 Modern staples has gone up over $1,000 collectively. Reprints aren't keeping up with the increasing demand.
 
This year they didn't really have anything other than one limited bomb no one cares about?

oh at the panel

yeah i got nothing. their strategy for distributing the spoilers they had over PAX was bizarre.


Kind of astonishing how the lion's share of this increase seems to be from either Innistrad block cards (Snapcaster, Liliana, Cavern of Souls, etc.) or conspicuous absences from MM2 (Inkmoth Nexus, Serum Visions, Inquisition of Kozilek, Goblin Guide, etc.)
 
It should have just been called Oathsworn or something along those lines.

You have to go back all the way to Conflux to find a set whose name is just a single, real English word. They have so much trouble getting workable trademarks these days that they need to go with something that is almost certainly not going collide. (I can just imagine their faces when they found out why they couldn't use "Warlords of Khanar.")

Then again they could have just called it Oathsworn of Zendikar (OOZ) or something.
 

ElyrionX

Member
Never watched the worldbuilding panel before? It's always like that.

Also:


CNxGt7kUsAA8o5H.jpg


So, Saturday Morning vibe aside:

CNxGt2vU8AA_DkR.jpg
CNxGt9RUkAAIVfb.jpg
CNxGuCyUEAAIq-J.jpg
CNxGuJ6UsAA7z0m.jpg


There's no way anyone in that promo art isn't getting a PW card in the block, right? Does this mean 3 PWs in OGW (Rosewater did mention that they have a little flexibility on 5-per-block now that there's no core set) or are we getting screwed out of a new Kiora?

These pics are so fucking cheesey. I really want a new Kiora as well.
 

Wulfric

Member
It should have just been called Oathsworn or something along those lines.

I like this name a lot. Perhaps they tried that and it was taken already? A similar thing happened between Warlords of Draenor and Warlords of Khanar (Tarkir). Either way, I dig the possibility of Ob Nixilis swearing an oath to seal away the eldrazi. I doubt they'll just omit a black planeswalker.

Personal Magic/WotC story time: I was in Seattle during PAX, but alas, I did not have a badge. We did the regular touristy things, and then drove to our hotel in Renton. Funnily enough, the hotel was in the same lot as the WotC offices. On Saturday morning my brother and I walked over to take a picture in front of the logo. As we were doing that, a woman rode into the empty parking lot on her motorcycle. I asked her if we could take a picture with the dragon in the lobby, and she said "Totally, we could've given you a tour if you came during the week". We chatted a bit about her sales job, Magic, and where my brother and I were visiting from. Eventually, she excused herself to get ready for PAX. We were about to leave when she ran back. At first I thought she was escorting us out, but she actually went behind the front desk to grab two booster filled goodie bags. Overall, it was a nice start to our last day in Seattle.
 

jph139

Member
I think we're just... not getting a Kiora. With Gideon-Nissa-Jace in BFZ and Chandra-Nixilis in Gatewatch you hit all five colors. There's no new promotional art with Kiora as a focus - reused stuff for the Arena of the Planeswalkers game and stuff where she's kind of in the background.

Disappointing when we just got new versions for 4/5, and will be hitting Jace VII and Chandra VI before Kiora II. I hope that's not the standard in the future.
 
Kiora is my favorite Planeswalker, with Garruk 1.0 and Dack Fayden right behind it (I really need to suck it up and buy a Dack; it's not going to get any cheaper). I would love to see a second Kiora.
 

Toxi

Banned
Are we seriously getting four of the five Planeswalkers we got in Origins again?

Like I enjoy Chandra and Gideon and whatever, but isn't Wizards concerned at all about overexposing certain characters?
 
Are we seriously getting four of the five Planeswalkers we got in Origins again?

Like I enjoy Chandra and Gideon and whatever, but isn't Wizards concerned at all about overexposing certain characters?

To be fair, it appears that the Origins planeswalkers were chosen specifically because of the role the play in Battle for Zendikar. I can't imagine "Tears" block will have new cards for them.

Speaking of which, the fact that Chandra is getting a new card in--ugh--Oath of the Gatesworn, means that "Tears" probably won't be Kaladesh, since they'd probably want a new Chandra for that block.
 
Kiora is my favorite Planeswalker, with Garruk 1.0 and Dack Fayden right behind it (I really need to suck it up and buy a Dack; it's not going to get any cheaper). I would love to see a second Kiora.
Garruk and Dack oughta be in the block after Battle of Zendikar. Garruk is still on the warpath after Liliana, and Dack is supposedly the only one able to foil Ashiok.

Actually, we may not see Dack until we return to Theros.

I have no clue why Kiora has been excluded from the Zendikar block, tho. Her entire storyline has been recruiting a navy to save Zendikar, and now she's not even in it? Come on.
 
Him or Ajani. Ajani is in the unfortunate position of being less popular than Elspeth and Gideon.

For no reason. Give me a badass Lion who buffs the entire team over Captain Face Punch. Ajani had actual development as a character, super fun card variants, etc.

I mean, I get why Gideon is being pushed(Odds are 99% likely that the Origins 5 will be the faces of the films when they happen, and Gideon> Ajani in terms of easiness to adapt to film) but he's still rather bland as a character.

of the Lorwyn 5, I'd be hard to pick who's dying first, if only because Ajani's not dying till Return to Theros(Though with their new style of blocks needing the Origins 5 in it, we'd have 3 White walkers running around), and Garruk's at the point where he'd still be useful as a character. The other 3 are Origins 5, so they're not likely to die anytime soon.
 

Kacar

Member
Gideon's facial hair pisses me off everytime.

Looking to get back into standard this set after hardly playing during the last set. Hopefully some good BR or UW decks pop up since those are the sets of fetches that I own.
 
I think we're just... not getting a Kiora. With Gideon-Nissa-Jace in BFZ and Chandra-Nixilis in Gatewatch you hit all five colors.

Yeah, the more I think about this the less sense it makes. Kiora (with a new title, even) is in the BFZ expansion to the board game, it would be pretty bizarre to add her there if she isn't in the block. Plus leaving her out would mean that despite how many other characters are involved in this storyline, 4 of the 5 PWs would be people we literally saw in the last set, and it'd be the first block ever with no gold PWs -- they really don't (as indeed they've said many times) seem to care much about ensuring color balance within each block for PWs.

I love how Gideon looks absolutely no different now than pre-FunkoPop.

You can lead an artist to melanin but you can't make him paint.
 
Why are we so sure we're getting an Ob Nix card?

Because they kept referring to him as a "planeswalker" in the lead-up, they posted the art for it, and the guy who leaked the (accurate) Gideon card told us what it does.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";177152741]I was assuming Gideon/Nissa/Ob Nixilis then Jace/Chandra/Kiora next set.[/QUOTE]

That'd be nice. If there's basically any block ever that called for an extra PW slot, it's this one.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Jesse just posted a Patreon exclusive article about "why Magic sucks". Some standard stuff about mana screw ruining way too high a percentage of games and how fucked it is that the secondary market and the price to competitive entry completely warp the culture around the competitive scene, but one quote in particular that stood out as capturing my general feelings about the last few years:
What has Magic really innovated in the last seven years? What are the great leaps forward that Magic design has made
since 2008’s Shards of Alara? It’s kept making sets, it’s kept selling well, but it’s just been going through the motions.
Creators have their ups and downs as their careers progress, but for many artists, the first ten or so years of their output
is what they’ll always be remembered for. Lou Reed wrote more classic songs that came out on The Velvet Underground
& Nico than in the last 20 years of his career put together. Sure, every medium is different (writers are known to have
long careers, and late-career classics are common), but creative people are more likely to create something innovative
and brilliant in their first half of their career than in the years after.
I feel like a similar thing has happened to Magic, if you think of Magic’s creative hivemind as though it was one creator.
It had its early spark of brilliance, a steady improvement, and we’re in the middle of its creative decline.
It’s not that Theros or Khans or the upcoming Battle for Zendikar are bad. It’s that they have nothing to say. There is no
innovation in a way that would make non-Magic designers sit up and take notice. Magic sets exist exclusively for people
already playing Magic
, they exist to make money, not to break new creative ground.
Its not necessarily that Magic just exists for people who play Magic (after all, acquisition has been both a priority and a success for them), its that aside from the general principles of NWO (again like seven years ago) innovation through gameplay hasn't really been the tactic they've chosen for acquisition.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
The only part of Magic that actually sucks is the fact that WotC can't, or won't, acknowledge that there is a real world outside of their self-created bubble in Renton. The card prices are absolutely out of hand. It's not 1995 and they're not a fragile upstart game any longer. A more aggressive stance toward lowering secondary pricing is within their power and it absolutely needs to be addressed. Modern Masters every other year and increasing levels of mythic rarities ain't it.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Ugh, do we really need to hear more about Jesse? Dude had like three set reviews that were on point and pretty everything else he wrote was overlong garbage where he tried to disguise not having anything coherent to say by making them essay length borderline nonsensical rants about dumb shit like how much MaRo sucks.
 
The only part of Magic that actually sucks is the fact that WotC can't, or won't, acknowledge that there is a real world outside of their self-created bubble in Renton. The card prices are absolutely out of hand. It's not 1995 and they're not a fragile upstart game any longer. A more aggressive stance toward lowering secondary pricing is within their power and it absolutely needs to be addressed. Modern Masters every other year and increasing levels of mythic rarities ain't it.

I 100% agree, as it's the large price point for modern decks(And even Standard in some senses) that hurts my chances of getting into Modern. I can afford like $15 cards, but for cards like Goyf to basically be a must of in Modern if Green focused and a playset costing over $800 in Canada, I have no desire to break into it.

I feel like minus some stuff(Like Original Duels) Wizards should try and put a hard cap on an individual card costing $100 in the second hand market. However, the cynic in me notes how Wizards just sold a crapton of MM2 packs for $10 a pack when it was an overglorified lottery ticket that had basically none of the cards that Modern needed.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Ugh, do we really need to hear more about Jesse? Dude had like three set reviews that were on point and pretty everything else he wrote was overlong garbage where he tried to disguise not having anything interesting to say by making them essay length rants about dumb shit like how much MaRo sucks.

Pretty much. Except I never found anything he wrote particularly compelling. He starts to make a point then drifts off in that way people trying to be "angry" often do. He's a low rent Angry Joe, but without the wink wink nudge nudge. He's just a sad individual that has gotten the attention of other sad individuals. He's not a good person to be paying attention to.

I 100% agree, as it's the large price point for modern decks(And even Standard in some senses) that hurts my chances of getting into Modern. I can afford like $15 cards, but for cards like Goyf to basically be a must of in Modern if Green focused and a playset costing over $800 in Canada, I have no desire to break into it.

I feel like minus some stuff(Like Original Duels) Wizards should try and put a hard cap on an individual card costing $100 in the second hand market. However, the cynic in me notes how Wizards just sold a crapton of MM2 packs for $10 a pack when it was an overglorified lottery ticket that had basically none of the cards that Modern needed.

I think that if they can do stuff like jamming 100 dollar super mythics in a pack, they can figure out how to introduce modern staples back into the pool at less than mythic rarity. Gofy should not be 200 bucks after 2 reprintings. They're not taking real world situations serious and they're increasingly coming off as tone deaf and fairly dismissive of anybody not sitting happily in the middle-to-upper tax bracket. I'm hoping that's not by design, but I'm starting to have doubts.
 

kirblar

Member
It's especially not worth actually giving him money.

Standard's still very cheap compared to the old days though, especially 2 months into the season.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
It's especially not worth actually giving him money.

Standard's still very cheap compared to the old days though, especially 2 months into the season.

I mean, I chip like $1 his way to get access to some of this stuff. I don't agree with everything he says, but he's at least talking about the game in this manner, I don't find many other critics who do
 
Its not necessarily that Magic just exists for people who play Magic (after all, acquisition has been both a priority and a success for them), its that aside from the general principles of NWO (again like seven years ago) innovation through gameplay hasn't really been the tactic they've chosen for acquisition.

I mean, when you put it like this, what's Magic done that's so great since day one? Rosewater (rightly) talks up Garfield's three innovations (the CCG concept, the mana system, and the color wheel) because they're all brilliant in the context of games, even, much less card games in particular. What's it done since? Until Rosewater took over it didn't particularly aim at having any coherent or interconnected style of design from month to month, and his efforts have mostly focused on applying already known design principles from other fields to creating coherency in Magic.

What's ironic to me about this is that Jesse's own hobby horse is Time Spiral block, which is unabashed in its intention to base any and everything it does on what's been done before and the audience's memory of that. Despite the name and concept, there's a lot of ways Future Sight is more conservative than many other sets -- because it can't afford to use any concepts that require real expansion and development (unless they're a throwaway gag, like Contraptions) so every "innovation" it does has to be something that's clever and unique in one card but which (usually) can't stretch any farther.

When you break it down and look at the sets since then, there's plenty of sets with unique concepts (Rise, New Phyrexia, Fate Reforged); a number of creative treatments that expand the tone and style of the game dramatically (Innistrad is the leader here); there's plenty of mechanics that are complex and weird and not quite like something that already existed (manifest is a great recent example, but DFCs and proliferate are some earlier ones); there's tons of stuff happening outside the primary expansions in the supplemental stuff Jesse doesn't consider relevant to his analysis (stuff like Conspiracy, Commander, etc. is way more relevant in terms of innovation about how real people actually play Magic than almost anything you'd see design-wise in an individual block.) None of that gives me the sense that this game I've followed for twenty years is getting more boring or less cleverly designed or what have you in that time.

Ugh, do we really need to hear more about Jesse? Dude had like three set reviews that were on point and pretty everything else he wrote was overlong garbage where he tried to disguise not having anything coherent to say by making them essay length borderline nonsensical rants about dumb shit like how much MaRo sucks.

So you're saying the critique he makes in this article applies equally to himself? :p

You see this outside of gaming, too, in music, or TV, or whatever else: there's a problem long-term fans of things easily get into, which is... not nostalgia, exactly, but an inability to separate the emotional context of something in a more nascent state from its modern context, stripped of the illusion and covered instead with the patina of familiarity. It's like the seven-year itch, but for hipster nerds. It pushes back on the inevitability of the passage of time by insisting someone's reaction to something should stay the same over the years or else that thing is getting bad, while ignoring that the person's movement through time is having an even bigger effect on them.

They're not taking real world situations serious and they're increasingly coming off as tone deaf and fairly dismissive of anybody not sitting happily in the middle-to-upper tax bracket. I'm hoping that's not by design, but I'm starting to have doubts.

Every single business in America that hasn't collapsed in on itself has had to narrow to a laser focus on either the extremely poor or the upper-middle-class-and above, and, well, WotC sells fifteen pieces of cardboard in a plastic sack for four dollars so....
 

siddx

Magnificent Eager Mighty Brilliantly Erect Registereduser
The only part of Magic that actually sucks is the fact that WotC can't, or won't, acknowledge that there is a real world outside of their self-created bubble in Renton. The card prices are absolutely out of hand. It's not 1995 and they're not a fragile upstart game any longer. A more aggressive stance toward lowering secondary pricing is within their power and it absolutely needs to be addressed. Modern Masters every other year and increasing levels of mythic rarities ain't it.

From a selfish standpoint I love it. That little box of money cards sitting at home has has gone up about $1000 in value over the last year alone. I wan't them to continue sending costs spiraling for that reason.

But, now that I live in a place that actually has a mtg scene and I can play year round, I'll probably change my tune.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Every single business in America that hasn't collapsed in on itself has had to narrow to a laser focus on either the extremely poor or the upper-middle-class-and above, and, well, WotC sells fifteen pieces of cardboard in a plastic sack for four dollars so....

Not even remotely true. Some companies set themselves up as "premium" or some similiar adjective. Other work on more of a tier system, where there is room for everybody. Magic has largely operated off that premise, with a high top end and a low entry point.

This is still the case, but they're getting top heavy. Many, many, many companies have made that same mistake and no longer exist because of it.

I'm not saying Magic is dooooomed or anything, but they need to start looking at how the secondary market has exploded over the past 5-6 years if they want to remain open to all players. We're seeing how the secondary market affects draftable products - which have normally been relatively wallet safe. Drafts have gone up in price. They add an additional, unnecessary level of artificial scarcity where none need exist on products like Modern Masters and FtV.

In a vacuum, MM2 isn't a problem. Neither is FtV. Or rising pack prices. Or rising draft prices. Or MTGO borked economy. Or increasing levels of rarity affecting staple cards. Or the ignoring of the influence of SCG/CFB on the secondary market. Or celebration products like FtV:20 that were only really available to a fraction of the player base that has made Magic the success story it is. Or casual products like commander's arsenal being one off, super rare products that are ripe for retail markup abuse.

But these things don't exist in a vacuum. Personally, it doesn't really affect me. I can buy what I want. Now. The me from 20 years ago wouldn't have been able to play much, if at all, in today's game. There is always an option to grab up somebody's draft chaff and slam zombies into goblins for fun. But that's creating a clear delineation between the players WotC is supporting directly and the ones it tolerates.

Of course WotC wants to make money. But if that kid comes into money and has no experience with the game because it looked to pricey to get into in the first place, that's potential revenue flushed down the toilet for no real good reason. WotC can - and really should - do a better job of balancing their product pricing out and the time when they could just ignore the secondary market as if it was something out of their control is long gone.
 

Hero

Member
The game is so much cheaper to play from a competitive standpoint for standard than it used to be. Not to mention they actively print tournament cards in supplementary products like Duel Decks, Event Decks, Clash Packs, etc. Not sure why people are complaining about Tarmogoyfs being expensive when last year they just reprinted the original fetchlands which brought the prices back down to a reasonable level and the same with shock lands back in RTR.

I also disagree with the notion that MTG hasn't done anything new since Alara. They would not have been breakout their old records consecutively year over year if they didn't continue to innovate and excite people.

If that is an excerpt from an article I can't imagine the rest of it being good.
 
I don't get folks hating on WotC in regards to quality of the game's crunch right now. The market pricing is a valid complaint; but Tarkir was one of the best fucking blocks we've had in a long time, when you factor in fun, balance, solid mechanics, and meta parity not seen in ages.
 

jph139

Member
I find mid-2000s a lot more interesting than modern Magic. It was weirder, more experimental, often bad, but consistently more charming. The only real "no-brainers" of the period are Mirrodin and Ravnica because, I mean, artifacts and multicolored, y'know?

Today I feel like they've sort of cracked the code, so to speak. They know what works and how to get there. It's like a sequel to a video game, that smooths out all of the issues and flaws - better, no doubt, but in a weird way not quite holding up.

But I originally got into the game with Kamigawa, which is probably coloring my view if not straight-up blinding me.
 

Jhriad

Member
I have no clue why Kiora has been excluded from the Zendikar block, tho. Her entire storyline has been recruiting a navy to save Zendikar, and now she's not even in it? Come on.

We haven't seen all the cards in BFZ block yet. Without core sets going forward there's got to be an uptick in Planeswalkers per set to compensate and they've got to start this trend with BFZ/Gatesworn because it's a new block. There will need to be 2.5 Planeswalkers per set to keep up with their previous pace established in the last two blocks + associated core set. I think we get Gideon, Ob Nixilis, and Kiora in BFZ. Sweat will have the other three Gatesworn. The next block will be 2 planeswalkers in each set so that the planeswalkers distribution going forward will look like 3, 3, 2, 2, 3, 3, 2, 2.
 

Firemind

Member
The me from 20 years ago wouldn't have been able to play much, if at all, in today's game.
I don't believe you. When I was a freshman up until high school, I'd go to our local hobby store whenever I could after school. Who cares if you're not spikey competitive? Magic is about having fun and it's still fun despite the secondary market. Whether it's drafting, kitchen table multiplayer or sanctioned tournaments, there's still plenty of fun to be had. I don't see this changing any time soon. Just stay far away from the neckbeards.
 
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