Support NeoGAF

[Jhriad]

Not sure why people are complaining about Tarmogoyfs being expensive when last year they just reprinted the original fetchlands which brought the prices back down to a reasonable level and the same with shock lands back in RTR.

Because reprinting two land cycles isn't enough to keep the prices of Modern decks in check. From the article linked earlier discussing the impact of MM2015:

Even the price of expensive decks that saw a lot of their most expensive cards reprinted in MM2015 weren't made more reasonable because of the reprints.

Jund, basically synonymous with Modern since the invention of the format, ended up increasing slightly despite the fact that Tarmogoyf, Dark Confidant and Fulminator Mage decreased nearly $300 by themselves. Even with all the reprinting, you still would have been better off buying the deck in January in the middle of MM2 hype knowing full well that several major reprintings were on the way.

SaffronOlive goes on to make a very important point about Modern prices at the end of the article.

Investing $150 in a Tarmogoyf which is not only playable in several archetypes but is also likely to maintain its value is one thing; spending $100 on a set of Heritage Druids and Ancient Stirrings which are only playable in one deck and are likely to get crushed in value upon reprinting is another.

People complain about the price of Goyf, sure, but a lot of people are okay slowly buying into sets of Goyf, Snapcaster, LotV, etc. because they recognize that even after a reprinting those cards will hold some value. The expensive commons & uncommons won't and neither will most rares that are only used in fringe decks. WOTC hasn't done a good enough job of putting a ceiling on highly playable mythics & rares while also keeping lower rarity playables & fringe rares in check. So far they've only managed to tamp down on one while the other sees an unhealthy amount of growth (as far as affordability goes).

 

[Nikodemos]

Given that Wizards have IIRC reported the highest number of new players ever, I'd say complaints about the game's inaccesibility aren't entirely valid.

Since the death of 'unfun' archetypes like LD, Permission, Affinity

Spoiler

(Cawblade, yerkh)

etc. I personally consider the game to be more n00b friendly than ever.

 

[Jhriad]

Given that Wizards have IIRC reported the highest number of new players ever, I'd say complaits about the game's inaccesibility anren't entirely valid.

That depends on which format you're talking about. I don't think that the accessibility of Standard has changed too much, or at least not quickly enough, to make it inaccessible to new players. Modern is another discussion entirely.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

Given that Wizards have IIRC reported the highest number of new players ever, I'd say complaits about the game's inaccesibility anren't entirely valid.

Since the death of 'unfun' archetypes like LD, Permission, Affinity

Spoiler

(Cawblade, yerkh)

etc. I personally consider the game to be more n00b friendly than ever.

There's an argument to be made that the recent increase in popularity has more to do with advertising and better ways of teaching people how to play.

 

[Firemind]

There's an argument to be made that the recent increase in popularity has more to do with advertising and better ways of teaching people how to play.

It's all thanks to Hexproof. Hail Hexproof!

 

[Hero]

Because reprinting two land cycles isn't enough to keep the prices of Modern decks in check. From the article linked earlier discussing the impact of MM2015:

Even the price of expensive decks that saw a lot of their most expensive cards reprinted in MM2015 weren't made more reasonable because of the reprints.



SaffronOlive goes on to make a very important point about Modern prices at the end of the article.



People complain about the price of Goyf, sure, but a lot of people are okay slowly buying into sets of Goyf, Snapcaster, LotV, etc. because they recognize that even after a reprinting those cards will hold some value. The expensive commons & uncommons won't and neither will most rares that are only used in fringe decks. WOTC hasn't done a good enough job of putting a ceiling on highly playable mythics & rares while also keeping lower rarity playables & fringe rares in check. So far they've only managed to tamp down on one while the other sees an unhealthy amount of growth (as far as affordability goes).

It's modern season right now. Compare prices during the same time frame. People don't play Magic as much in the winter. Not saying that MM2 fixed and it it because it didn't but I'm saying that reprinting the fetchlands was a hell of a bigger boost to many more decks and pushed the prices of those lands down immensely.

 

[bigkrev]

The problem with modern is how expensive the commons and uncommons are. While the average player probably seperates out their Rares/Mythics from the rest of their collection, there commons and uncommon s are likely unsorted. Especially in a case of cards that meant nothing in Standard (like Ancient Stirrings or Might of Old Krosa), they are probably just jammed in to 1000 count boxes of bulk cards sitting on a shelf unsorted, never to be found again.

If I needed Ancient Stirrings for a deck, I'd probably just buy a playset for 10 bucks or so because I don't have the time/care to go through my giant boxes of cards looking for them.

 

[Matriox]

There's no way anyone in that promo art isn't getting a PW card in the block, right? Does this mean 3 PWs in OGW (Rosewater did mention that they have a little flexibility on 5-per-block now that there's no core set) or are we getting screwed out of a new Kiora?

You may be in luck

I thought for sure that sphinx that got spoiled first would have been the blue intro Rare.

Also, this is the deckbox we get for prerelease.

 

[ultron87]

I'd be bummed if Kiora gets sweet art like this but not a Planeswalker card.

 

[aidan]

Considering Gideon and Ob Nixilis are also on boosters, it seems inevitable that Kiora will also be a Planeswalker in the set.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Yesssssssss! I wanna see crazy U/G fatty.

I'm wondering if I should hop on Animist's Awakenings, in case it jumps in price.

 

[bigkrev]

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/announcing-oath-gatewatch-2015-09-01

Hopefully a screw-up, but PT Gatewatch was supposed to be the Modern PT, but is listed as a Standard PT in the announcement

 

[Toxi]

Ob Nixilis has an incredibly silly facial expression.

""

 

[Nikodemos]

Ob Nixilis has an incredibly silly facial expression.

""

"Prepare for epic trololo."

 

[Firemind]

I'll get you next time, Liliana! Next time!

*strokes cat*

 

[El Topo]

I'm wondering if I should hop on Animist's Awakenings, in case it jumps in price.

I just don't think the card is good or reliable enough, even with Landfall. Heck, even this Wizards article has a hard time hyping the card.
It might be a fun casual card, but I strongly doubt it will see widespread competitive play.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Considering Gideon and Ob Nixilis are also on boosters, it seems inevitable that Kiora will also be a Planeswalker in the set.

I'm not convinced Ob Nixilis is a planeswalker in this set to begin with.

 

[Toxi]

I'm not convinced Ob Nixilis is a planeswalker in this set to begin with.

First, we have the booster packs, and first up on the booster packs is the baddest Demon Planeswalker this side of the Multiverse.

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Firemind]

He's going to be a planeswalker (eventually) because the writers are predictable like that.

 

[kirblar]

Given that packaging, we're not seeing a Nissa/Jace card here.

We know what the Ob N card does already, lol.

 

[Angry Grimace]

He's going to be a planeswalker (eventually) because the writers are predictable like that.

Well yeah, I just mean some guy saying he saw his card doesn't make me believe its in BFZ even if he had Gideon right because several people had Gideon correct from that point and the source of that Gideon spoiler seemed to be the PAX presentation itself. I'm just skeptical.

But yeah, WOTC is fucken dumb if they think putting 6 or 7 Planeswalkers per block story is a good idea and then just not giving them all cards.

 

[bigkrev]

Oh, and also mentioned in that release, the draft format is Gatewatch/Gatewatch/Battle.

 

[Firemind]

Oh, and also mentioned in that release, the draft format is Gatewatch/Gatewatch/Battle.

This seriously pisses me off. It's like they're doing this to move more product. Enough is enough, you tossers.

 

[kirblar]

This seriously pisses me off. It's like they're doing this to move more product. Enough is enough, you tossers.

They are because every 2nd set is only in Standard for 15 months.

Good chance we get WWK pt II ad nauseum otherwise. (Well, not to that severity, but you get the idea.)

 

[ultron87]

That will help with the Small Set vs Large Set supply imbalance. If they did it the old way it'd be ~ 5 packs to 1 towards the first set. This makes it 2-1.

 

[ElyrionX]

Yay Kiora! Please be good for EDH

 

[Angry Grimace]

Oh, and also mentioned in that release, the draft format is Gatewatch/Gatewatch/Battle.

I imagine that means every set is drafted like that.

 

[Firemind]

They could have just done it chronologically. At least with Khans it made sense from a story perspective.

You mention ZZW but it's not like Dragons of Tarkir, Journey into Nyx and Dragon's Maze weren't train wrecks.

 

[bigkrev]

They could have just done it chronologically. At least with Khans it made sense from a story perspective.

You mention ZZW but it's not like Dragons of Tarkir and Dragon's Maze weren't train wrecks.

? The Newest set has been drafted first since Scars of Mirrodin block.

 

[Firemind]

? The Newest set has been drafted first since Scars of Mirrodin block.

Exactly!

 

[bigkrev]

Exactly!

....and that is exactly what they are doing here as well?

 

[Firemind]

....and that is exactly what they are doing here as well?

My point is they can't design around this concept. Khans, Theros and Return to Ravnica are proof of this.

 

[The Technomancer]

Q: The new Ulamog doesn’t shuffle back into the graveyard. Why?

A: This Ulamog learned new tricks? Mostly we no longer have to do crazy shenanigans on big cards since it costs more to reanimate a creature.

i.e "the eternal formats will figure it out"

 

[WanderingWind]

Given that Wizards have IIRC reported the highest number of new players ever, I'd say complaints about the game's inaccesibility aren't entirely valid.

You're putting the horse before the cart here. The price spikes are a result of the influx of new players. The price spikes didn't cause a level of inaccessibility, but it is most definitely putting up a paywall (for lack of a better term) that continues to grow. It wouldn't be a big deal if WotC was clear with plans to address the issue. To date, they have not. They may not even see it as an issue.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

i.e "the eternal formats will figure it out"

I wonder if this is the desired fatty for the Breaking//Entering Cascade combo deck that never did anything.

 

[SigmasonicX]

I'm glad to see that Kiora is prominently featured on booster art, in a pose that very likely comes from a Planeswalker card rather than some random sorcery. The fact that she is on booster art but Nissa isn't, and that Nissa is the face of Oath, probably means that Nissa's new card isn't until Oath.

So, that seems to mean that Battle's Planeswalkers are Gideon, Nixilis, and Kiora, while Oath's are Nissa and ???. Maybe they're choosing not to give Jace or Chandra a card? Though it's more likely that we're getting three Planeswalkers in that set too.

I was surprised to see the listing of the Pro Tour draft format on the Oath announcement page. Is it possible that this was a mistake or that it only applies to the Pro Tour? Changing the draft format seems like something that would be mentioned more prominently; though it is possible that they meant to explain it more later, but accidentally announced it this way too early. It would address the issue of small packs being opened too infrequently, an issue that would have been exacerbated by the new block model.

 

[Angry Grimace]

They could have just done it chronologically. At least with Khans it made sense from a story perspective.

You mention ZZW but it's not like Dragons of Tarkir, Journey into Nyx and Dragon's Maze weren't train wrecks.

I think every set is drafted like that since Zendikar precisely because nobody opened Worldwake and all the cards became ultra expensive.

I'm glad to see that Kiora is prominently featured on booster art, in a pose that very likely comes from a Planeswalker card rather than some random sorcery. The fact that she is on booster art but Nissa isn't, and that Nissa is the face of Oath, probably means that Nissa's new card isn't until Oath.

So, that seems to mean that Battle's Planeswalkers are Gideon, Nixilis, and Kiora, while Oath's are Nissa and ???. Maybe they're choosing not to give Jace or Chandra a card? Though it's more likely that we're getting three Planeswalkers in that set too.

I was surprised to see the listing of the Pro Tour draft format on the Oath announcement page. Is it possible that this was a mistake or that it only applies to the Pro Tour? Changing the draft format seems like something that would be mentioned more prominently; though it is possible that they meant to explain it more later, but accidentally announced it this way too early. It would address the issue of small packs being opened too infrequently, an issue that would have been exacerbated by the new block model.

Maro specifically said large sets are 3 PW and small sets are 2 PW. The only reason I take this seriously is because I doubt he'd lie about it on the very first set of the 2-set paradigm.

 

[hort]

Relevant tweet from MaRo:

https://twitter.com/maro254/status/638740563362217984

For all those asking Oath/Oath/Battle is correct. We are changing how we do small set drafts. And yes, we're designing/developing for it.

 

[Jhriad]

Maro specifically said large sets are 3 PW and small sets are 2 PW. The only reason I take this seriously is because I doubt he'd lie about it on the very first set of the 2-set paradigm.

3-2-3-2 makes since since that puts them on par with Theros & Khans blocks. Curious who the 2 for the next set are out of the three other sworn walkers. Or are we not getting any other sworn walkers in BFZ block outside of Gideon? I'd guess that Jace plays into Liliana's story in the next block so he gets a card there instead of in Gatewhatever.

 

[Yeef]

Nissa will definitely be in Oath. She's the face of the set and we've already what looks like card art for her. I'd guess Chandra is the other one, mainly for color balance reasons. If we assume Ob Nixilis is mono-black, Kiora is green blue again and Nissa is mono-green, red would be the only color without a walker in the block. That said, it's possible that Ob Nxilis ends up being black red.

 

[kirblar]

Not all PWs in the story are getting cards.
Nissa/Jace/Liliana getting such stupidly good cards in Origins makes more sense now if they're skipping BFZ block.

 

[Angry Grimace]

You don't need every color in a block anymore - there's only 2 sets, so you can pad out the color wheel in the Spring set.

 

[kirblar]

You don't need every color in a block anymore - there's only 2 sets, so you can pad out the color wheel in the Spring set.

Kiora gets you green.

 

[Firemind]

Kiora feels more blue than green. I don't know why she's blue/green but I didn't follow the story in Theros closely. Something about stealing Thassa something something.

 

[kirblar]

Kiora feels more blue than green. I don't know why she's blue/green but I didn't follow the story in Theros closely. Something about stealing Thassa something something.

It's her focus on the giant sea fatties.

 

[Firemind]

But giant sea fatties have been historically blue?

 

[divisionbyzorro]

She was introduced in Duels of the Planeswalkers 2012. She was the face of a UG ramp deck that featured Ulamog, Kozilek, Lorthos, as well as a couple of Simic Sky Swallowers and some assorted rampy stuff. It's been part of her identify from the beginning to pump out gigantic monsters.

EDIT: This was her deck: http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/digital/duelsoftheplaneswalkers.aspx?x=mtg/digital/d12/decks#kiora

 

[SigmasonicX]

In any case, the story showing Kiora's fight with Thassa did involve her summoning some plants, so she definitely knows green magic.

 

[Yeef]

They've already spoiled what looks like Nissa's Planeswalker art a month and a half ago; it has a vertical aspect ratio rather than horizontal like most art. They also spoiled Gideon's planeswalker art at the same panel. Nissa's also the face of the next set and the main storyline has been following her and Gideon a lot more than the other walkers. She's definitely getting a card in Overwatch Gatecrash Gatewatch.

http://www.fetchland.com/the-magic-panel-and-the-battle-for-zendikar/

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Nissa went from being a racist bitch and having one of the worst planeswalker cards in the game to becoming two different Standard and Cube staples and the hero/face of another set. Pretty meteoric rise if you ask me.