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Malaysia Airlines flight en route from Amsterdam shot down over Ukraine; no survivors

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M

Masquerader

Member
Tugatrix said:
I'm a bit ashamed for my country press, this is front page of a tabloid(the top selling newspaper):


NFSW

The lack of sensibility to avoid using that image it's shocking
Click to expand...

That's as bad as when they showed Gadaffi's dead body (complete with the gunshot wound to the head) on basically every front page a few years back in the UK. Ugh. I was hoping to become a journalist at one point in my life. I am somewhat glad I realised that they're a bunch of lowlife cunts.
 
K

Kworn

Banned
zorlaczerohero said:
Just what I needed to hear 3 days before flying from Sydney to the UK.

Interview here with an Aussie former head of Quantas safety, seems he's pretty sure the Seperatists did it.

Which to my mind makes sense. The official Ukraine government would have access to flight plans crossing their territory, they'd see a jet at 33,000 feet and tick it off against known flights. The separatists would have no such information. I'd presume Russia had nothing to do with it, except maybe on a supply basis, which by no means makes them innocent, shouldn't give missiles to fuckwits. But they'll deny it all, say that the Ukraine did it and framed them, then they'll act all hurt when more sanctions are put on them, the west will back down because nukes. Nothing will change except maybe a leadership reshuffle for the separatists.

So RussiaGAF what's the take on it all over there?
Click to expand...

Dude anyone can see any plane flying in the skies overhead and even know what jet it is:

http://www.flightradar24.com/

Check it out.
 
P

| Praxis |

Banned
Masquerader said:
That's as bad as when they showed Gadaffi's dead body (complete with the gunshot wound to the head) on basically every front page a few years back in the UK. Ugh. I was hoping to become a journalist at one point in my life. I am somewhat glad I realised that they're a bunch of lowlife cunts.
Click to expand...

I'd say it's worse, these were innocent people who's families could easily stumble upon these images and recognise an item of clothing or something. I hate these fucking shit rag papers.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
superdeluxe said:
Stories coming out the reason so many children on flight many Dutch were traveling on Holiday :/
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Yes, School summer holidays in southern region of Holland began this past Monday, Northern region started a week ago, many people leaving this week.
 
S

spekkeh

Banned
superdeluxe said:
Stories coming out the reason so many children on flight many Dutch were traveling on Holiday :/
Click to expand...
Well yeah it's the start of the summer vacation. We Dutch love to fly intercontinental for our holidays. Those people on board would be pretty much either people going to the aids conference, or tourists.
 
G

GoodCoffeeJoey

Banned
Were it not for the hundreds killed, it would also be comical the ridiculous series of events Vladimir Putin's reckless behavior led up to this morning. For months Putin has been playing with fire, making trouble and having it work mainly to his advantage. Certainly in the context of Russian history and nationalist aspiration reclaiming the Crimea is a vast accomplishment. But the whole thing blew up in his face today in a way, and with repercussions I don't think - even with all wall to wall coverage - we can quite grasp.

Find extremists and hot-heads of the lowest common denominator variety, seed them with weaponry only a few militaries in the world possess - and, well, just see what happens. What could go wrong?

The audio tapes posted by The New York Times might as well be from some future Russia-based version of Waiting for Guffman or Best in Show, a comical rendering of rustics and morons stumbling into an event of vast carnage and international consequence mainly because they're hotheads and idiots - the kind of people no one in their right minds would give world class weaponry to. It's like finding some white supremacist/militia types on their little compound in the inter-Mountain west and giving them world class missile launchers and heavy armaments.

Europe and even America never cared that much about Crimea. It is difficult to dislodge an annexation when a majority of the population likely really did support it. And the Europeans, as long as the big red lines weren't being crossed, are too tied to Russian fuels and their myriad other concerns to care that much about mischief on Ukraine's eastern border. But having a passenger plane, filled with EU citizens, shot out of the sky above what is presumed to be the bubble of first world safety that is "Europe" is a game changing event not only in the Ukraine crisis but much more broadly about Putin's role in Europe generally.

In a paradoxical way, I think the future ramifications of this are almost greater because it is about Russia's recklessness and bumbling than it would be if it were more clearly a matter of intent. This is a f'-up on Putin's part of almost mind-boggling proportions. Yes, a tragedy. Yes, perhaps an atrocity. But almost more threatening, a screw up. Malign intent is one thing. So is aggression. But goofs of this magnitude by someone who controls a massive military arsenal and nuclear weapons are in a way more threatening.
Click to expand...

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/game-changer--5
 
Herbspiceguy

Herbspiceguy

Member
freakzilla149 said:
I realise the Dutch people are in a lot of pain but would you be able to tell us a little about what they're thinking?

Are they sad or angry? Blaming Malaysian Airlines, Russia, Ukraine?
Click to expand...

Feels like a day of mourning. Sadness and respect for the deceased, support for the surviving families.
Moments of silence held around the country at different festivals that are going on and the annual 4day walk in Nijmegen. Dutch Tour de France cyclists are wearing 'mourning bands'.
There's also an online, public condolance register.
Was listening to one of the major radio stations at work today; lots of sentimental songs, listeners sharing their stories about loss.
Compassion and mourning are dominant, not anger and finger pointing.
 
P

| Praxis |

Banned
Just another warning to those looking for info, I stumbled upon a picture of a dead baby lying face down in a field, didn't realise my wife was looking over my shoulder and it upset her quite a bit. I'm used to looking at terrible images from warzones, but will avoid anything to do with children like a plague. Just a heads up.
 
C

Chariot

Member
AstroNut325 said:
Yes all airlines are detouring now. But in a few weeks when this is all forgotten I think most airlines will just go back to their "normal" routes. I will be calling my airline in the next few days to see if they have long term plans for detouring.
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Even then, I don't think anyone in that general area want to shoot another Anti-Air missile after this PR nightmare.
 
N

NH Apache

Banned
itsgreen said:
Latest update:
4 unknown
189 Dutch
29 Malaysian
27 Australian
12 Indonesian
9 UK
4 German
4 Belgian
3 Philipines
1 Canada
1 New Zealand
Click to expand...

What happened to the 23 Americans reported?

This is only 283. 297 were reported before.

Edit: This may have come off brash. It was not my intention.
 
W

Wind's Howling

Member
Just got home from work not hearing about the latest update.

The amount of deaths is just sad. Incredibly sad. By my understanding the majority of the aussies on that plane were from an AIDS conference?
 
Z

zorlaczerohero

Banned
Kworn said:
Dude anyone can see any plane flying in the skies overhead and even know what jet it is:

http://www.flightradar24.com/

Check it out.
Click to expand...

So you think the Ukraine government kept internet and services running to the region? I would presume the services were cut as soon as the separatists took over. Doesn't make it right of course, they are surely communicating with the Russians via satellite etc. so could easily have checked. It leaves two possibilities, they either didn't bother checking, or couldn't. My bet is they didn't bother, saw a radar ping, flying at 500+mph, had a small window of oppurtunity to take it out, and went for it. A government defence force has a constant view of air traffic, the 5 minutes it takes to grab a phone and look something up is 5 minutes too much. But for a group of people looking to "defend" what they think they have a right to, they may take the shot whilst they can. Vladimeer ain't gonna wait to fire whilst petrov waves his phone around the room looking for a signal.
 
M

Masquerader

Member
| Praxis | said:
I'd say it's worse, these were innocent people who's families could easily stumble upon these images and recognise an item of clothing or something. I hate these fucking shit rag papers.
Click to expand...

Yeah, good point... Both are fricking harrowing shit to me, though. How the hell big money journalism continues in anyone's guess~
 
F

FreedomFighter

Member
Nicktendo86 said:
A British journalist has resigned from RT in protest over the coverage of the plane crash. States they 'work for Putin'.
http://order-order.com/2014/07/18/russia-today-journalist-sensationally-resigns-over-putin-lies/
Click to expand...
This seems just as suspect as Liz Wahl to me. The West and Kiev was quick to blame Russia, while Russians seem to feel Kiev and not the rebels had more to do with it. It's just two separate views, which will be sorted out once the investigation is completed. I don't know what she's on about, Sara Firth. It's like she thinks like she knows for sure what happened.
 
petran79

petran79

Banned
GoodCoffeeJoey said:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/game-changer--5
Europe and even America never cared that much about Crimea. It is difficult to dislodge an annexation when a majority of the population likely really did support it. And the Europeans, as long as the big red lines weren't being crossed, are too tied to Russian fuels and their myriad other concerns to care that much about mischief on Ukraine's eastern border. But having a passenger plane, filled with EU citizens, shot out of the sky above what is presumed to be the bubble of first world safety that is "Europe" is a game changing event not only in the Ukraine crisis but much more broadly about Putin's role in Europe generally.

In a paradoxical way, I think the future ramifications of this are almost greater because it is about Russia's recklessness and bumbling than it would be if it were more clearly a matter of intent. This is a f'-up on Putin's part of almost mind-boggling proportions. Yes, a tragedy. Yes, perhaps an atrocity. But almost more threatening, a screw up. Malign intent is one thing. So is aggression. But goofs of this magnitude by someone who controls a massive military arsenal and nuclear weapons are in a way more threatening.
Click to expand...

problem is back then it was NATO that set a precedent in Kosovo in 1999. While Serbia back then was weak and had all western media against her, even during the Civil War, Russia is a different beast to tackle and they have their own efficient propaganda.

NATO tried to do the same by provoking Georgia (the country in Caucasus, not US Georgia!) in 2008 and almost 800 casualties were the result. There were talks back then of Georgia entering NATO. Fortunately they didnt at that time or it would escalate in a full scale war.

this is all part of a game to encircle Russia and Iran from all sides. Making Ukraine a NATO member would have been the icing on the cake and I hope it doesnt happen for Europe's peace.

Neighboring Poland and the Baltic states also didnt contribute to a peaceful solution.
 
B

Blablurn

Member
Bs0e0soCUAETCyT.jpg:large
 
T

TCRS

Banned
silver.tongue said:
Sorry if it has been awnsered guys, but has this recording been checkd by the authorities already?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbyZYgSXdyw&feature=youtu.be

It's wierd that a government would just put stuff like this on youtube.
Click to expand...

can't say I disagree with the colonel there at the end. it's a freaking war zone, the air space should have been closed for civilian aircrafts. not that it's the pilots fault or anything, air traffic control and the authorities are to blame here.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Zukuu said:
Germany? Uk? Canada? What?
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We call it the Calimero-effect, it's a Dutch cartoon character who has a popular phrase that translates to "they are big, while I am small" and relates to Dutch people underestimating their country and worldwide influence because we're a small country.

It's not true, of course, as we have a huge economic presence worldwide and as such have quite some pull politically.
 
S

StuKen

Member
FreedomFighter said:
This seems just as suspect as Liz Wahl to me. The West and Kiev was quick to blame Russia, while Russians seem to feel Kiev and not the rebels had more to do with it. It's just two separate views, which will be sorted out once the investigation is completed. I don't know what she's on about, Sara Firth. It's like she thinks like she knows for sure what happened.
Click to expand...

Only we have communication intercepts of known players in the conflict which not only confirm that the separatists fired the missile under the mistaken assumption that it was a Ukrainian an-26 transport, the location where the missile was fired from but also that higher ranking players admit the mistake and insist that a civilian aircraft should not have been flying in the airspace in the first place.
 
Z

Zukuu

Banned
TCRS said:
can't say I disagree with the colonel there at the end. it's a freaking war zone, the air space should have been closed for civilian aircrafts. not that it's the pilots fault or anything, air traffic control and the authorities are to blame here.
Click to expand...
How about BLAME THE ONE THAT GAVE THE ORDER TO PULL THE TRIGGER TO SHOOT AT RANDOM THINGS? They were flying well above the military zone and were not within the closed-off air corridor, the separatists have set themselves.
 
C

CassSept

Member
StuKen said:
Only we have communication intercepts of known players in the conflict which not only confirm that the separatists fired the missile under the mistaken assumption that it was a Ukrainian an-26 transport, the location where the missile was fired from but also that higher ranking players admit the mistake and insist that a civilian aircraft should not have been flying in the airspace in the first place.
Click to expand...

Don't forget 'separatists' gloating over their new SAM missiles for the last few weeks AND Strelkov's post on vkontakte when the plane went down.
 
J

Jito

Banned
Damning evidence coming out in UN council of Russian separatist shooting down a load of planes over this month and bragging about it, what's left to hide behind now?
 
IpsoFacto

IpsoFacto

Member
Tugatrix said:
I'm a bit ashamed for my country press, this is front page of a tabloid(the top selling newspaper):


NFSW

The lack of sensibility to avoid using that image it's shocking
Click to expand...

Agreed. The portuguese press completely dropped the ball on this one. When I heard the story on RTP I swear they were treating it like it was a minor issue like it was a story about a town fair in some remote part of the country.
 
Z

Zaph

Member
Jesus, just read about the parents who lost all three of their kids. I don't even know how you live after something like that.

I hope the sanctions absolutely cripple Moscow and the oligarchs turf Putin.
 
T

TCRS

Banned
Zukuu said:
How about BLAME THE ONE THAT GAVE THE ORDER TO PULL THE TRIGGER TO SHOOT AT RANDOM THINGS? They were flying well above the military zone and were not within the closed-off air corridor, the separatists have set themselves.
Click to expand...

oh yeah obviously, I meant with respect to the pilot flying above a war zone.
 
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