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Malaysia Airlines flight en route from Amsterdam shot down over Ukraine; no survivors
- Thread starter alfredofroylan
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It's a fair point. British Airways and Air France changed their route to a more expensive southern route, avoiding eastern Ukraine, since the conflict began in order to not take any chances.
Malaysia Airlines among others stuck to their cheaper route. To be fair, it had been declared 'safe' by authorities.
Maninthemirror
Banned
How high was the military plane flying that they shot down in the same area the week before?
Snkfanatic
Banned
Considering pretty much everyone else was before the attack....I would say the answer to your question is no.
While I'm not agreeing with his point, they've been bragging about shooting down cargo planes for quite a while now and it's not like Russia has taken a backseat in arming them. The news just didn't carry those reports so maybe no one in charge knew. U.S. airlines were avoiding Crimea since April for that very reason since so much is unknown and it's better not to risk it. I guess they were still allowed to fly over other parts of Ukraine though.
Maninthemirror
Banned
It's a fair point. British Airways and Air France changed their route to a more expensive southern route, avoiding eastern Ukraine, since the conflict began in order to not take any chances.
Malaysia Airlines among others stuck to their cheaper route. To be fair, it had been declared 'safe' by authorities.
The ones going through turkey are most likely connecting while Malaysian was a long haul flight.
AN-26 was only at 21,000 feet. This was at 33,000
WayneMorse
Banned
Dave and Gideon wont let that happen, they've got a housing bubble to inflate!
chugen
Member
it was declared safe and others were taking the same route so i don't really see the point of saying "Are they just a totally incompetent company"
Yea, it's definitely not just them. This could have happened to anyone. You'd think the airlines would just be more cautious after the news out of Ukraine the past few weeks.
BA is a far superior airline. This just goes to show how horrendous the others really are.
Those are direct flights. The BA and Air France flights until a few weeks ago took the path through Ukraine, but a decision was taken to alter the course.
"However, some airlines in the last week including British Airways and Air France had already altered their flight paths to avoid Ukraine."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28356745
If you want to blame someone, blame the lack of guidance from aviation authorities. It's not like carriers have the ability to gather AAA intelligence.
Nikodemos
Member
That's what the thing is supposed to do. If it can't accurately zoom targets within its engagement envelope, it's useless. The Buk isn't some short-range launcher like an Avenger Humvee. It's supposed to knock down high-altitude bombers. WW2-era rangefinders had ranges in the dozens of kilometres. A late-70s - early-80s electronically boosted set should easily top that. Admittedly, the Soviets weren't known for their amazingly cutting-edge electronic tech, but they should've managed slightly better than WW2 era stuff.
Stupidity is a very human trait. In the past the US has been helping the Taliban (which put Al Quaeda on the map) and Syrian insurgents (which led to ISIS).
You seem to know a bit about the system. Do you know if the fire-control radar on the TELAR would be able to detect the speed and/or altitude of a target it was locked on? I ask because airliner was flying far faster, and significantly higher, than a prop-driven transport plane would be capable of.
I know...but did we ever give them weapons with this sort of lethality/capability? Is there a precedent for this?
No, BA doesn't transfer through Istanbul. They fly direct to BKK.
Source. I was on that flight 3 weeks ago.
SniperHunter
Banned
Video has surfaced of a "rebel" BUK being rushed towards the Russian border. Interesting thing about the video is you can see the BUK has fired 2 missiles as they are missing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4HJmev5xg0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4HJmev5xg0
| Praxis |
Banned
The Russia Today website is a pretty depressing place.
gutter_trash
Banned
it's quite shocking that we get for free on Bell Fibe in Canada. I never asked for this channel, it's self imposed.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Between all this imagery, the common sense variables, the twitter post and then immediate deletion of the post, the phone conversations. What more do we need to come to a conclusion?
If this was a trial it would be a slam dunk case.
mercenar1e
Member
Nikodemos
Member
Well, it would have to, since it is apparently capable of automatic swing and pan tracking with the missiles (the whole 'turret' follows the target, with the missiles being raised or lowered as directed by the targeting computer) and it would have to match its movements with the target's position.
| Praxis |
Banned
I don't doubt that this is probably the vehicle that shot the plane down... But couldn't they find some tarpaulin or plastic sheeting to cover the fucking thing?
I'd imagine they were in a rush. Also, random goods like tarps might be hard to come by in a warzone when stores probably aren't being restocked much, especially a tarp big enough to cover what is really quite a large vehicle.
Probably old, but pro-Russian rebel leader says the plane was full of dead bodies anyway!
Yahoo Article
I have no words... If someone had told me that's the way they'd respond, I would have said it was an Onion article.
Yahoo Article
I have no words... If someone had told me that's the way they'd respond, I would have said it was an Onion article.
it's quite shocking that we get for free on Bell Fibe in Canada. I never asked for this channel, it's self imposed.
Orlando Bosch, CIA-backed terrorist, guilty of bombing an civilian cuban airliner. Found safe haven under Bush snr, lived as a free man till his death in USA.
Masquerader
Member
Is this article genuine...? As in, seriously? Really? Honestly?
Nikodemos
Member
This guy... This fucking guy...
Does that mean that they now onwards to take responsiblity?
eot
Banned
Even with just a decent pair of binoculars you can identify a commercial airliner at cruising altitude as such. I know because I've tried and then used flightradar to check their altitude.
I swear every hotel I stay at has this channel. No idea how they made such inroads in north america when telecoms had to be dragged kicking and screaming to provide aljam
He probably got the idea from *SPOILERS FOR AN EPISODE OF A POPULAR BRITISH SHOW*
Sherlock, Season 2 I think.
RIP, indeed, but it was likely a quick and hopefully painless death for everyone on the plane.
AA missiles are designed to explode near an aircraft and puncture it with hundreds of chunks of shrapnel. The purpose of the shrapnel is multi-fold: damage the engines and flight control surfaces, puncture fuel tanks, but most importantly in the case of jet aircraft, destroy the plane's aerodynamics. If you blow even a small chunk off an aircraft travelling at high speed, air resistance can quickly rip loose much bigger pieces, like entire wings, tails, major portions of the fuselage, etc. The missile doesn't have to destroy the plane outright; the damaged plane destroys itself due to its speed.
That almost certainly happened in this case, since the tail of the plane was found six miles away from the rest of the wreck.
If you are sitting inside an aircraft flying at 500kts, as it loses its tail and begins cartwheeling through the sky, the effect will be fully as violent as crashing a speeding car into a brick wall. The plane would go from "a speeding bullet" to "fluttering debris" in just a few seconds. The G forces would be tremendous and probably, hopefully in this case, instantly fatal.
It will be interesting to see if the black boxes remained operational long enough to measure and record the instantaneous G forces experienced by the plane as it broke up. If they are as high as I expect they were, perhaps that will provide some small comfort to the families of the deceased.
Nikodemos
Member
I don't think human articulations (neck vertebrae, in particular) are very well suited for sudden changes in direction while travelling at 900 km/h.
That's crazy. The islamic insurgents are more dangerous than Assad. It's crazy that Al-Qaeda has become the sane alternative to ISIS, that's how fucked up these people are. When the rebels win, Syria will become not a beacon of democracy but an islamic theocracy that will scare away huge parts of the population that would have been safe under Assad. And it will become a place where Shiites (Iran) will fight Sunnis (Saudis) by proxy.
I thought he was dead? Maybe not.
gutter_trash
Banned
still trolling at 87 years old
Whitechocolatekrispies
Banned
Russia's little separatist pets thoroughly shit the bed. Putin wants his toys back before they bury his reputation.
Actually what we're doing is very smart.
Keep both sides funded and alive and let them focus on killing each other. Also look at how many potential terrorists in the UK that have focused their attention on that conflict ... rather than our transportation system.
It's quite simple really, Obama might actually know whats up. Keep the Middle-East squabbling and fighting, prop up the loosing side whenever they start getting crushed. Then you're left with a jihad vacuum that sucks up all the wanna be firecrackers and watch them kill each other over and over.
Whatever keeps their attention away from us right?
Did he forget the Alzheimer meds?
It feels surreal, absurd, that this even happened. Shame on humanity.AstroNut325
Member
It's a fair point. British Airways and Air France changed their route to a more expensive southern route, avoiding eastern Ukraine, since the conflict began in order to not take any chances.
Malaysia Airlines among others stuck to their cheaper route. To be fair, it had been declared 'safe' by authorities.
FUUUU... I'm flying Lufthansa in January. If they don't maintain their detour routes I will cancel tickets and go with British Airways. Not taking chances.
There are many insurgent groups within Syria. ISIS is even mostly fighting those groups.
After yesterday there are literally no commercial flights flying over eastern Ukraine. So i wouldn't bother.
gutter_trash
Banned
Russia signed a deal to forgive $29 billion of Cuba's Soviet-era debt.
Fidel would sing and dance naked for Putin
Fidel would sing and dance naked for Putin
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