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[Bam Bam Baklava]

Any new developments about the recent love affair the GOP has been having with Putin?

I remember when people thought he was such a genius and a mastermind and yet his handling of this Ukraine situation seems to show a clueless policy that led to rebels out of control.

 

[JCizzle]

You're speechless that the flight was full of people like you and me with their own dreams, families, friends and plans?

I'm sorry but I find these comments borderline tasteless, they're just fishing for empathy by arbitrarily highlighting individual cases as if some of those people are more worth grieving for than the rest.

I'm speechless over something and it sure isn't the post you quoted...

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

A man who has been reliable about FSB leaks regarding Ukraine in the past is saying the FSB is currently trying to smuggle in damaged parts of an SU-25 Fighter and try and plant evidence that a Ukrainian SU-25 used P-73 Air to Air Missile to down MH17.

Russia has been trying to play the Narrative "witnesses" saw an SU-25 tailing the Plane and fire on it. Of course SU-25 cannot even get to 25,000 feet let alone 33,000

antonz it is about time you start posting sources for the shit you spew, Any other poster would have been banned so do us a favor and post reliable sources. If you don't have any don't post anything, we already got the memo that Russia is evil.

 

[jimi_dini]

Video has surfaced of a "rebel" BUK being rushed towards the Russian border. Interesting thing about the video is you can see the BUK has fired 2 missiles as they are missing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4HJmev5xg0

That video is amazing. You can clearly see the drivers face and that he has blood on his hands. The BUK is still smoking. And you can even see the driver's mobile phone with Putin's personal telepone number in the display. I have no idea how they managed to get all of this into a 13 seconds video, but they did. Truly amazing. If that's not proof, I don't know what is.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

That video is amazing. You can clearly see the drivers face and that he has blood on his hands. The BUK is still smoking. And you can even see the driver's mobile phone with Putin's personal telepone number in the display. I have no idea how they managed to get all of this into a 13 seconds video, but they did. Truly amazing. If that's not proof, I don't know what is.

Oh boy here comes jimi again. What kind of mental gymnastics does he have in store for us this time.

Maybe the US shot down the plane themselves to make the Russians look bad.

 

[antonz]

antonz it is about time you start posting sources for the shit you spew, Any other poster would have been banned so do us a favor and post reliable sources. If you don't have any don't post anything, we already got the memo that Russia is evil.

Why don't you go read the Ukraine thread. There is a reason I haven't been banned. I don't spew shit like the others. So go be butthurt somewhere else like Moscow.

Always some random hit and run person in every thread.

 

[Phoenix]

A man who has been reliable about FSB leaks regarding Ukraine in the past is saying the FSB is currently trying to smuggle in damaged parts of an SU-25 Fighter and try and plant evidence that a Ukrainian SU-25 used P-73 Air to Air Missile to down MH17.

Russia has been trying to play the Narrative "witnesses" saw an SU-25 tailing the Plane and fire on it. Of course SU-25 cannot even get to 25,000 feet let alone 33,000

Even if they could, there is apparently strong evidence from other countries showing that it is a ground launch.

 

[antonz]

Even if they could, there is apparently strong evidence from other countries showing that it is a ground launch.

Of course. Its been reported Radar profile and heat signatures were identified as early as several hours after the attack. This would just be to try and muddy the water

 

[TheContact]

A man who has been reliable about FSB leaks regarding Ukraine in the past is saying the FSB is currently trying to smuggle in damaged parts of an SU-25 Fighter and try and plant evidence that a Ukrainian SU-25 used P-73 Air to Air Missile to down MH17.

Russia has been trying to play the Narrative "witnesses" saw an SU-25 tailing the Plane and fire on it. Of course SU-25 cannot even get to 25,000 feet let alone 33,000

That wouldn't work though and would be an obvious cover up due to the forensics they can pull from heat signatures, IR paths, and radar. The best bet for a cover up would be to try to say it was a buk but wasn't done by Russia or separatists. But even still that would only make them look worse because it's inevitable that a conclusion is going to be drawn here. Just a matter of time. Battlefield forensics is an insane art

 

[Phoenix]

Of course. Its been reported Radar profile and heat signatures were identified as early as several hours after the attack. This would just be to try and muddy the water

Its just really implausible. If you're going to try to plant evidence, at least use evidence that would make sense. There are no radar tracks of the SU-25, its profile isn't stealthy, it wouldn't have been in the right place/altitude to engage the airliner, etc. They would have an extremely hard time convincing anyone that an SU-25 was involved, unless they want to say that they tried to shoot down an SU-25 and missed.... but then why bother to put damaged parts on the scene.

Just saying that its a pretty stupid idea if that's what they are trying to do.

 

[Showaddy]

To be fair this these guys are clearly a pack of fucking morons, trying to pull this sort of laughable cover-up sounds about right for them.

 

[antonz]

Its just really implausible. If you're going to try to plant evidence, at least use evidence that would make sense. There are no radar tracks of the SU-25, its profile isn't stealthy, it wouldn't have been in the right place/altitude to engage the airliner, etc. They would have an extremely hard time convincing anyone that an SU-25 was involved, unless they want to say that they tried to shoot down an SU-25 and missed.... but then why bother to put damaged parts on the scene.

Just saying that its a pretty stupid idea if that's what they are trying to do.

Russia is not a sane actor on the world stage. Frankly it may all be just to win over support at home. Russia is developing its own version of the Taliban now. They are Ultra Nationalist Orthodox Fighters. They have started to show up in Ukraine on their Holy War to free Ukraine from the evil doers who aren't Russian Orthodox. To defend the faith yada yada.

Even as Putin's approval drops around the world it Skyrocket's in Russia. He has the highest approval rating of his political career in years. As long as Russia loves him he doesn't give a shit what the world thinks though now that a Civilian Plane has crashed he is in hot water because all eyes are on him. He liked his invisible war on Ukraine where no one gave a shit.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Russia is not a sane actor on the world stage. Frankly it may all be just to win over support at home. Russia is developing its own version of the Taliban now. They are Ultra Nationalist Orthodox Fighters. They have started to show up in Ukraine on their Holy War to free Ukraine from the evil doers who aren't Russian Orthodox. To defend the faith yada yada.

Even as Putin's approval drops around the world it Skyrocket's in Russia. He has the highest approval rating of his political career in years. As long as Russia loves him he doesn't give a shit what the world thinks though now that a Civilian Plane has crashed he is in hot water because all eyes are on him. He liked his invisible war on Ukraine where no one gave a shit.

That's the issue. Russia is basically turning into a large and dangerous North Korea. Their media just lies to the people to make glorious Putin look like a hero and that's all he cares about. No one from the outside can threaten him because of the oil and nuclear weapons in Russia the only true threat he could face is from within.

 

[ArtHands]

Some TV hosts from Taiwan mentioned that the airline has been retrenching staffs for years as cost-cutting measures, and that the accident a while ago was a very major blow. so the hosts theorized that they have to take drastic measures, and that they decided to save on their little bit of fuel cost but taking direct route as shortcuts for their trips, and that the direct route for the flight here means flying over Ukraine.

 

[Suikoguy]

Some TV hosts from Taiwan mentioned that the airline has been retrenching staffs for years as cost-cutting measures, and that the accident a while ago was a very major blow. so the hosts theorized that they have to take drastic measures, and that they decided to save on their little bit of fuel cost but taking direct route as shortcuts for their trips, and that the direct route for the flight here means flying over Ukraine.

That's really terrible conjecture considering the map that was posted earlier.
http://i.imgur.com/SuNxxBg.gif

 

[Tacitus_]

Oh for fucks sake, now Russian Defense Ministry is claiming that they "detected Ukrainian radar activity" 30km south of Donetsk on the 17th. Ukraine is obviously denying it. British military expert Doug Richardson comments that Ukrainian operators would have a good picture on the air traffic and they likely wouldn't mistake a civilian plane for a military plane.

(don't have an english source but the finnish public broadcaster cited Reuters and Itar-Tass)

 

[Uzzy]

Its just really implausible. If you're going to try to plant evidence, at least use evidence that would make sense. There are no radar tracks of the SU-25, its profile isn't stealthy, it wouldn't have been in the right place/altitude to engage the airliner, etc. They would have an extremely hard time convincing anyone that an SU-25 was involved, unless they want to say that they tried to shoot down an SU-25 and missed.... but then why bother to put damaged parts on the scene.

Just saying that its a pretty stupid idea if that's what they are trying to do.

I don't think they're trying to convince anyone in the west/NATO. Just create enough doubt that non-aligned nations can plausibly keep being neutral in the matter.

 

[Suikoguy]

I don't think they're trying to convince anyone in the west/NATO. Just create enough doubt that non-aligned nations can plausibly keep being neutral in the matter.

I think it's more to convince people in Russia.

 

[Uzzy]

I think it's more to convince people in Russia.

Also yes.

 

[Nexas]

I think it's more to convince people in Russia.

Do the people in Russia not have access to the internet? I don't understand how anyone who is not a complete and total idiot could buy this shit.

 

[Hypron]

Is this old?

That's some horrible luck...

 

[TheContact]

Is this old?

That's some horrible luck...

Wow. Like one of our gaffers who lost someone in each flight. So depressing

 

[rinse82]

You're speechless that the flight was full of people like you and me with their own dreams, families, friends and plans?

I'm sorry but I find these comments borderline tasteless, they're just fishing for empathy by arbitrarily highlighting individual cases as if some of those people are more worth grieving for than the rest.

Were you going for shock value here or are you being serious?

 

[BunnyBear]

You're speechless that the flight was full of people like you and me with their own dreams, families, friends and plans?

I'm sorry but I find these comments borderline tasteless, they're just fishing for empathy by arbitrarily highlighting individual cases as if some of those people are more worth grieving for than the rest.

Are you high? That was ten-fold more tasteless.

 

[Kenshin001]

Do the people in Russia not have access to the internet? I don't understand how anyone who is not a complete and total idiot could buy this shit.

Not everything on the Internet is in Russian.

 

[LiK]

You're speechless that the flight was full of people like you and me with their own dreams, families, friends and plans?

I'm sorry but I find these comments borderline tasteless, they're just fishing for empathy by arbitrarily highlighting individual cases as if some of those people are more worth grieving for than the rest.

what a shit post.

 

[walei]

Some TV hosts from Taiwan mentioned that the airline has been retrenching staffs for years as cost-cutting measures, and that the accident a while ago was a very major blow. so the hosts theorized that they have to take drastic measures, and that they decided to save on their little bit of fuel cost but taking direct route as shortcuts for their trips, and that the direct route for the flight here means flying over Ukraine.

Have lived in Taiwan for the past ten years I'm telling you please don't even pay any attention to the tards of Taiwanese media. They are worse than Fox News and CNN making babies.

 

[ralexand]

I don't get why there isn't a camera in the face of or at least some kind of search for the two individuals on that recording talking about the downing of the plane.. Why aren't people insisting that the two individuals be made available for questioning? What am I missing?

 

[Vanillalite]

Sorry if LTTP but...

The Verge

Russia spotted editing Wikipedia page about downed Malaysia Air jet

The bot that spotted the change is RuGovEdits. Launched just this past weekend, it sends out a tweet when it detects Wikipedia edits made by people using Russian government IP addresses. Similar tools recently launched for the UK Parliament IP block (@parliamentedits), and for the US Congress (@congressedits).

The plane [flight MH17] was shot down by terrorists of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic with Buk system missiles, which the terrorists received from the Russian Federation

The plane [flight MH17] was shot down by Ukrainian soldiers.

 

[OrlanisWorks]

Sorry if LTTP but...

The Verge

Russia spotted editing Wikipedia page about downed Malaysia Air jet

The bot that spotted the change is RuGovEdits. Launched just this past weekend, it sends out a tweet when it detects Wikipedia edits made by people using Russian government IP addresses. Similar tools recently launched for the UK Parliament IP block (@parliamentedits), and for the US Congress (@congressedits).

That's not surprising. They edited the English wiki or Russian and English?

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Who the fuck do they think they're trying to kid?

 

[Yagharek]

antonz it is about time you start posting sources for the shit you spew, Any other poster would have been banned so do us a favor and post reliable sources. If you don't have any don't post anything, we already got the memo that Russia is evil.

Russia shot down a commercial airliner. I think thats proof enough their Gov't is evil.

 

[RM8]

Who the fuck do they think they're trying to kid?

Russia :/

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Has this thread reached the point of victim blaming?

Yesterday a poster suggested that passengers were in some part to blame by suggesting they should have been aware of the flight path the plane was taking...

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Russia :/

They don't even have the decency to to write [currently unknown], Russia is just trying to go full blast with the convenient notion that the Ukraine are the big bad guys here.

 

[Surfheart]

Has this been posted?

Interior of a BUK unit.

 

[Phoenix]

Russia shot down a commercial airliner. I think thats proof enough their Gov't is evil.

We don't know that yet. We have to avoid the temptation to jump to conclusions, regardless of how it appears.

 

[Yagharek]

We don't know that yet. We have to avoid the temptation to jump to conclusions, regardless of how it appears.

When Russia and their soldiers in Ukraine are destroying their previous tweets/history of gloating about capturing equipment involved in this, and using it to shoot down other Ukraine aircraft, its pretty fucking obvious it was Russia. Hell, there's voice records of a Russian soldier in Ukraine informing a Russian intel officer that they shot down the plane.

 

[empty vessel]

Why don't you go read the Ukraine thread. There is a reason I haven't been banned. I don't spew shit like the others. So go be butthurt somewhere else like Moscow..

There is a reason you haven't been banned, and it has nothing to do with your rationality, capacity for empirical understanding, or lack of shit-spewing. Regrettably, the unsubstantiated nonsense that you spew aligns with US foreign policy objectives (at least in the current context), and that has the unfortunate side-effect of making you appear normal to others.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

When Russia and their soldiers in Ukraine are destroying their previous tweets/history of gloating about capturing equipment involved in this, and using it to shoot down other Ukraine aircraft, its pretty fucking obvious it was Russia. Hell, there's voice records of a Russian soldier in Ukraine informing a Russian intel officer that they shot down the plane.

That plus the rebels are refusing to be cooperative with the investigators.

 

[Dead Man]

There is a reason you haven't been banned, and it has nothing to do with your rationality, capacity for empirical understanding, or lack of shit-spewing. Regrettably, the unsubstantiated nonsense that you spew aligns with US foreign policy objectives (at least in the current context), and that has the unfortunate side-effect of making you appear normal to others.

Umm... are you aware of what you are suggesting with this post? If you are that's cool and all, but accounts have been lost over less.

 

[Yagharek]

There is a reason you haven't been banned, and it has nothing to do with your rationality, capacity for empirical understanding, or lack of shit-spewing. Regrettably, the unsubstantiated nonsense that you spew aligns with US foreign policy objectives (at least in the current context), and that has the unfortunate side-effect of making you appear normal to others.

Wow.

 

[Phoenix]

When Russia and their soldiers in Ukraine are destroying their previous tweets/history of gloating about capturing equipment involved in this, and using it to shoot down other Ukraine aircraft, its pretty fucking obvious it was Russia. Hell, there's voice records of a Russian soldier in Ukraine informing a Russian intel officer that they shot down the plane.

There are countless instances where the initial evidence that people used to form their conclusions upon turned out to be incorrect, incomplete, or misinterpreted. While their culpability looks probable, it isn't definitive enough for me to draw any conclusions from.

 

[Yagharek]

There are countless instances where the initial evidence that people used to form their conclusions upon turned out to be incorrect, incomplete, or misinterpreted. While their culpability looks probable, it isn't definitive enough for me to draw any conclusions from.

Technically you might be correct, but when Ukraine lost Crimea, it was bleedingly obvious it was Russian soldiers doing the invasion. Its obvious that this probably included special forces as well as Russian equipment and supplies. That stuff is still roaming around within Ukraine and being used to invade more of the country.

It is 100% Russia's fault. The fact they are so laughably making their own accusations against Ukraine is telling.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Wow.

"Wow"? I asked Antonz repeatedly for sources for specific claims, yet he refuses to provide them. And when someone criticises him for that he calls them "Russian troll" or "butthurt" and that one should "go back to Moscow".

There are countless instances where the initial evidence that people used to form their conclusions upon turned out to be incorrect, incomplete, or misinterpreted. While their culpability looks probable, it isn't definitive enough for me to draw any conclusions from.

Exactly. Of course it is extremely suspicious what those people are doing, but that's not a "100% proof".

 

[empty vessel]

Umm... are you aware of what you are suggesting with this post? If you are that's cool and all, but accounts have been lost over less.

You tell me.

 

[Yagharek]

Exactly. Of course it is extremely suspicious what those people are doing, but that's not a "100% proof".

When the Russians control the crime scene I'm sure they can plant whatever "proof" they want.

 

[Dead Man]

You tell me.

Mate, I'm not going to work to get you into trouble. There is a clear implication in that post, if nobody else sees it that's fine.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

When the Russians control the crime scene I'm sure they can plant whatever "proof" they want.

Probably. Same for the Ukrainian side. But that also doesn't prove 100% that one specific faction shot the plane down.

 

[xbhaskarx]

lol

There is a reason you haven't been banned, and it has nothing to do with your rationality, capacity for empirical understanding, or lack of shit-spewing. Regrettably, the unsubstantiated nonsense that you spew aligns with US foreign policy objectives (at least in the current context), and that has the unfortunate side-effect of making you appear normal to others.

empty vessel being empty vessel, far more predictable than even Russia being Russia...