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Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 ended in the Southern Indian Ocean

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R

rooflapimp

Banned
Final words? I wonder what that means...
And they are just realizing this now?

Edit: Oh, are they just referring to the "All right, good night"?
 
D

duckroll

Member
rooflapimp said:
Final words? I wonder what that means...

And they are just realizing this now?
Click to expand...

It doesn't mean anything. They simply stated that it is the co-pilot who made the last communication with ground control. The same last communication which we knew about days ago. It's non-info, like pretty much everything else. Without context none of this has any significant meaning, and there is no context because no one knows what happened on the flight.
 
L

liquidtmd

Banned
tumblr_m6dr2xFNZ61qejbiro1_500.gif
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
Malaysian Press Conference 2014-03-17 17:30

Pre-amble

- Diplomatic notes sent to two groups countries in search corridors, & countries from whom we are seeking expertise. (radar and satellite data, specific assets for search and rescue - land, sea and aerial and information on plans for coordination) Asked for regular updates. Not at liberty to reveal information from specific countries.

- 26 countries involved. Southern corridor divided into 2 sections - demarcation agreed by ICAO. Australia and Indonesia spearheading in their specific regions. Search in both corridors have already begun.

- French officials from the office of investigations and analysis for the safety of civil aviation have arrived to help with search (refine data etc)

- Saturday 8th March - Royal Malaysian Police investigation into all crew members on board including pilot & copilot and all ground staff. On Sun 9th March police visited homes of pilot and copilot and spoke to family members. Visited again on Sat 15th March, flight simulator taken from house with assistance of family and reassembled at headquarters.

- Stress that Malaysia has been cooperative with interpol, FBI etc.

- Speculation that Malaysia held back information about MH370 movement - Our main priority is still finding MH370. We would not withold any info that could help, but will not release anything that is not verified by international investigation teams.

- As soon as possibility emerged of turnback, search was expanded to that area. US investigating team's statement: "Based on the information and data given by the Malaysian authorities, US team was of the view that there was reasonable ground for Malaysian authorities to deploy resources to search western side." As soon as new satellite information (8:11) recalibrated search efforts to northern and southern corridors.

- New phase of search is underway.

Q&A

- (Malay answer) When we sent diplomatic notes to involved countries (only this morning) 14 countries, more of half of them so far agreed verbally

- Security tape about pilot being checked at the security checkout - Security personnel of Malaysia Airport will have to report.

- (Malay answer) Cost & reimbursing foreign countries? - Involved countries aren't thinking about cost. On Malaysian's side, cost is not a factor, main goal is finding the plane

- (Malay answer) re: foreign radar and satellite data. No information that can be shared with media for today.

- Investigating pilot suicide or personal problems? - Yes, we're looking at it, but no, cannot say for the moment.

- (Malay answer) information regarding military radar was sensitive but national security is being put below priority of resolving this hence it was shared. At the time plane was detected, no immediate action was taken because it was not thought to be hostile.

- (Malay answer) Report of last-minute roster change to Cpt. Zaharie? - False. He was flying as scheduled

- (Malay answer) Is sharing our radar information a national risk? - Looking ahead we need to reevaluate our capabilities because the information we shared with intelligence agencies might be a risk right now. But not it's not a worrisome level. But that's long term we'll re-look at our radar capabilities. That's after our current priority which is to find plane

- (Malay answer) regarding bad image by international press: We respond to speculation and criticsm every day at 5:30

- (Malay answer) About possibility of valuable cargo - 3-4 tonnes of mangosteens(wat?) were going to China

- (Malay answer) Regarding why PDRM waited to investigate flight sim? - earlier in investigation it wasn't necessary but with ACARS and transponder information further investigation was necessary. Reiteration that family members were cooperative.

- (Malay answer) Remote hijack? Not likely. Radar hijack? Not likely. But if any proof comes up we are obliged to investigate. We are looking at all existing facts from multiple sources. What was announced by Prime Minister is what we have in hand to go with.

- (Malay answer) Both corridors are still focus. However south corridor doesn't have many countries involved.

- Have investigators talked to other pilot who claims to have heard mumbling? - Not that i know of.

- the ACARS was turned off just off Kota Bharu. IGARI waypoint was where transponder was shut off.

- Will MAS look into psychological tests? - Tests are standard procedure for pilot recruitment. Going forward we will see if we can tighten entry requirement. Currently on Code Tango, heightened security. We are looking at all shortcomings right now.

- Possibility of Chinese hijack? Manifest was forwarded to Chinese authorities, and it was cleared. We recently asked Chinese authorities to re-look/intensify.

- Emergency Location Transmitting System, was it working? - Before take-off, all systems especially emergency systems must be serviceable. Every emergency item is always on "Arm" and will trigger if aircraft touches water or crashes.

- Any cellphone calls/text after deviation - So far no evidence from any telephone company so far. Still checking - millions of records to process. Still part of investigation.

- Possible flight simulation background of passengers etc? Passenger manifest passed over to police to check background of passengers. We know background of crew

- "All right, good night" - Initial investigation indicate it was co-pilot who basically spoke the last time it was recorded on tape. Recording is with ATC. stress, etc still part of investigation

- What time was ACARS disabled? - 1:07 was the last ACARS transmission. We don't know when it was switched off after that, (WHAT THE FUCK) was supposed to transmit 30 minutes later but did not. Disabled within those 30 minutes. Communication of "All right, good night" 1:19.

- No indication at the tower that the ACARS was switched off. Was revealed during investigation that information was not downloaded from ACARS.

- Why does the satellite data suggest two corridors? - Satellite is geo-satellite over Indian Ocean. Satellite could only see the aircraft at elevation of 40 degrees. The only information of each handshake is timestamp. Calculated from last point in Straits of Malacca & based in min and max speed. FAA, NTSB, AAIB the Chinese all agreed.

- Prime minister asked to narrow this, this is why it's a priority to get radar assets to reduce the area.

- Is there more or less hope of passenger survival? - personally I always pray for hope against hope. Always ask for no speculation because it diverts focus

- US FBI <something> - Not true. Clearly a false information, been working with FBI from day 1

- How long could it have flown afther 8:11 - 30min of fuel depending on flight speed

- <something about responsibility vs irresponsibility>

- 5000ft report - we're not aware of that report. Something the investigation team needs to look into. Info didn't come from us

- no distress signal, no ransom notes no parties, claiming to be responsible, etc - there's always hope

- Chief of Police will report on findings when the time comes.

- Copilot said "All right, good night" at 1:19, ACARS switch-off could have been falksdjfaklsdjfalksdjf (reporter, presumably same one who asked the question yesterday and got the answer "before" was trying to grill Hishamuddin and is cut off. DS Hishamuddin responds "this is why it is important to find the black box ASAP for answers")

- <Something about social media>

END

FALKRANT (ignore, keyword for thread search)
 
aeroslash

aeroslash

Member
syllogism said:
As I understand it, TCAS does not work unless your own transponder is also turned on and without TCAS there is no way to fly that close
Click to expand...

Tcas doesn't work without the transponder, that's true. Contrary to what you are saying TCAS wouldn't let two planes fly that close!

When two planes are too near, it commands different avoiding manouvres to each one of them.
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
So, remember how we got all worked up about the bullet point yesterday that ACARS was disabled BEFORE "All right, good night"?

Apparently according to today's press conference this apparently might not have been the case. MAS guy clarified that the last transmission from the system was at 1:07, and it could have been disabled anywhere in a 30 minute period till the next one was due, 30 minutes later. This means potentially the transponder and ACARS could have been shut off at the same time, around (or after) "All right, good night". This is a direct contradiction of earlier information. Here's the bullet point from yesterday:
- was ACARS disabled before or after pilot said "All right, Good night" - Yes, it was disabled before
Click to expand...

edit: I also find it a little bizarre that minimum speed was a factor in calculating which parts of the 8:11 arc were plausible. Minimum speed isn't a factor in 'shortest distance from last RMAF military radar location' unless you assume the plane flew in a straight line. If the plane made one or more additional turnbacks, there can't have been a minimum distance from the last RMAF military radar location. I'm not an aviation expert so is there something wrong with my logic here?
 
S

syllogism

Member
aeroslash said:
Tcas doesn't work without the transponder, that's true. Contrary to what you are saying TCAS wouldn't let two planes fly that close!

When two planes are too near, it commands different avoiding manouvres to each one of them.
Click to expand...
Right, but we are discussing whether TCAS can be utilized for the purpose of this outlandish shadowing theory. Is there an operating mode that disables automatic manouvers and would you, without TCAS display, be able to shadow another plane in the manner suggested above?
 
L

liquidtmd

Banned
Falk said:
So, remember how we got all worked up about the bullet point yesterday that ACARS was disabled BEFORE "All right, good night"?

Apparently according to today's press conference this apparently might not have been the case. MAS guy clarified that the last transmission from the system was at 1:07, and it could have been disabled anywhere in a 30 minute period till the next one was due, 30 minutes later. This means potentially the transponder and ACARS could have been shut off at the same time, around (or after) "All right, good night". This is a direct contradiction of earlier information?
Click to expand...

Yep - there aren't enough spinning cat gifs in the world at the moment
 
G

Goodlife

Member
Isn't South far more likely, as I'd imagine the radar coverage isn't as great?
I really cant' imagine it being able to fly for multiple hours through China without it being picked up?
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
Goodlife said:
Isn't South far more likely, as I'd imagine the radar coverage isn't as great?
I really cant' imagine it being able to fly for multiple hours through China without it being picked up?
Click to expand...

Keep in mind those points represent where the aircraft potentially could have been at exactly 8:11. Which is to say, its flight locus could have been anything as long as it was at any one single point along those lines at exactly 8:11. The north corridor doesn't automatically imply that the aircraft was over China (or any other country) for a specific period of time. However you are right that it's likely it would have been picked up by radar by at least one country in any case, which is a big part of the mystery here.

In the meantime I'm waiting for the conspiracy theories regarding our newly acquired information that 3-4 tonnes of mangosteen(?) was on board the plane.
 
aeroslash

aeroslash

Member
syllogism said:
Right, but we are discussing whether TCAS can be utilized for the purpose of this outlandish shadowing theory. Is there an operating mode that disables automatic manouvers and would you, without TCAS display, be able to shadow another plane in the manner suggested above?
Click to expand...

With the transponder off, the 777 wouldn't send any signal to any other aircraft, so they could hide below it in theory. But it would be extremely dangerous to get below near any other aircraft, specially because you wouldn't see when the aircraft starts to descend, and to fly below and behind it would be a suicide because of the wake turbulence.
 
S

SniperHunter

Banned
Looking at that south corridor....

This plane will never be found

And they probably disabled cvr as well...

We will never know who was doing what in the cockpit
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
Okay, this conflicting information is really bugging me now. Literally in the same press conference we are told ACARS was disabled just off Kota Bharu and the transponder later at Waypoint IGARI.

THEN A FEW QUESTIONS LATER we are told this is not the case and the ACARS was shut off somewhere in the timespan of 30min, between 1:07 and 1:37.

The ACARS-before-transponder shutoff information was even a part of Prime Minister Najib's delivery on Saturday, "Based on new satellite communication, we can say with a high degree of certainty, the Aircraft Communications, Addressing and Reporting System, or ACARS was disabled just before the aircraft reached the east coast of Peninsular Malaysia. Shortly afterwards, near the border between Malaysia and Vietnamese Air Traffic Control, the aircraft transponder was switched off."

wat? So. Who's correct here?

More importantly are there any more oversights like this in the investigation and confirmed data?
 
Chittagong

Chittagong

Gold Member
So do I understand the concept of the corridor right, that the plane was definitely on the red line on the time of the ping, and ultimately at a zone around the red line that matches remaining fuel?
 
M

maquiladora

Member
Tugatrix said:
Yeah except, where would you land? Antarctica?
Click to expand...

Yes, it makes no sesnse. Why disable the ability to track the plane, turn back west and keep flying for another ~7 hours just to end up in the ocean on a track that doesn't have anywhere you could land?

The last radar contacts make the northern corridor more likely too I think.

607px-Malaysia-Airlines-MH370_insert.png
 
T

tino

Banned
I refuse to believe there is a Taliban controlled airfield big enough to land a 777 (and not being detected by satillite.)

I call bullshit.

This 007 villain theory is BULLSHIT.
 
G

goomba

Banned
Sorry if this has been discussed already, but if the plane had crashed wouldn't the black box be broadcasting its location?
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
Chittagong said:
So do I understand the concept of the corridor right, that the plane was definitely on the red line on the time of the ping, and ultimately at a zone around the red line that matches remaining fuel?
Click to expand...

Yes, exactly. Press Conference said 30minutes remaining at that point depending on flight speed
 
M

maquiladora

Member
Chittagong said:
So do I understand the concept of the corridor right, that the plane was definitely on the red line on the time of the ping, and ultimately at a zone around the red line that matches remaining fuel?
Click to expand...

Ultimately within 200 miles on either side of any point along the red lines.
 
C

Cromat

Member
If it went south into the Indian ocean then there's a fair chance it will never be found or recovered. This thing might end up unsolved and would invite countless conspiracy theories. How sad for the families.

At the very least, I think this proves the need for more accurate tracking of civilian aircraft. They should be equipped with a redundant Comms system which cannot be disabled.
 
G

goomba

Banned
Serra said:
Yes but if it crashed into water (likely) then the range is abysmal.
Click to expand...

But with the amount of search parties now looking everywhere possible, I would expect it's signal to be heard eventually if it's out there.

The more time that passes without debris or a black box signal, the more likely the plane was successfully stolen and landed elsewhere imo
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
goomba said:
But with the amount of search parties now looking everywhere possible, I would expect it's signal to be heard eventually if it's out there.

The more time that passes without debris or a black box signal, the more likely the plane was successfully stolen and landed elsewhere imo
Click to expand...

The search area in the ocean is currently so huge that it that searching just for that signal might mean it's never found. Even if they find debris giving them a general area to search it could still take a long time, see the Air France flight that took two years even after finding debris.
 
T

teruterubozu

Member
goomba said:
But with the amount of search parties now looking everywhere possible, I would expect it's signal to be heard eventually if it's out there.

The more time that passes without debris or a black box signal, the more likely the plane was successfully stolen and landed elsewhere imo
Click to expand...

Debris yes. But finding a black box can take years even after some wreckage has been discovered.
 
K

Ken Masters

Banned
goomba said:
But with the amount of search parties now looking everywhere possible, I would expect it's signal to be heard eventually if it's out there.

The more time that passes without debris or a black box signal, the more likely the plane was successfully stolen and landed elsewhere imo
Click to expand...

Do you know how big the ocean is?
 
E

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Imagine hijacked, sitting around the southern tip of the south corridor, the hijackers piloting with no idea where the fuck they are and where it's going. If it really did drop into the ocean around that point with a +30minute flight window and satellite accuracy window it could very well never be found.
 
N

numble

Member
goomba said:
But with the amount of search parties now looking everywhere possible, I would expect it's signal to be heard eventually if it's out there.

The more time that passes without debris or a black box signal, the more likely the plane was successfully stolen and landed elsewhere imo
Click to expand...
It took 2 years to find the Air France black box, and they knew where to look.
 
Z

Zeppu

Member
I'm constantly amazed at how many people have no sense of scale in this thread. A big airplane is tiny compared to the distance it can travel.
 
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