virtuoso88
Member
I blame the captain... taking a nap when things were clearly getting rocky and then no where to be found when one of the pilots was calling you.
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Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 ended in the Southern Indian Ocean
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I blame the captain... taking a nap when things were clearly getting rocky and then no where to be found when one of the pilots was calling you.
And yet few plane crashes lead to mass fatalities. Fear of flying is an irrational fear.
No. Human senses often suck when flying, which is why instrument flying is crucial.
There was no good reason for them to have a problem there. He didn't get there right away presumably because he had fallen asleep. It wasn't much time.
Both AF & Comair I legitimately don't get missing the fact there was a stall and ignoring the blaring warnings. Maybe they need to reconsider how emergency information is conveyed to pilots in dire situations? "Easy for me to say" but stall situations and what to do in them is something you learn in like the first five minutes of the original MS Flight Simulator and something you never forget thereafter. I honestly don't get it, even "panic" doesn't seem to account for all of it -- especially since the stall warnings in both cases were ignored well before anything was truly dire/frantic. Maybe it's a case of overthinking it and ignoring the obvious?
This is based on newer information. The old report was 45,000 feet as a height and 23,000 feet as a low.....not 12,000 feet.
Errr...I was watching the news along with everyone else at that time and that is exactly what they said
Claiming to have found debris (only to never make visual confirmation after numerous claims) is irrelevant?
Jin
Member
Definitely the captian. He decided to go through a storm instead of around it. Then choose that time to take a nap instead of seeing it through. From what I remember of the youtube video it said 6-7 other flights went around the same storm.
They claimed having mostly days old satellite based imaginary depicting objects that could potentially be debris from MH370 or something else. Later failing to find said objects or them turning out to be something else is not relevant at all, in particular to your assertion that no one has any idea what happened to the plane. Even if they had claimed that they found debris specifically from MH370, that sighting later turning out to be false would in no way weaken the other evidence.
I started listening to Cnet podcasts around 08/09 so I never knew about him when he was alive, but read about it and was stunned that it had happened to someone the people I listened to had worked with. Popped into my mind when I picked the picture for the A340 sliding off the runway.
It kind of didn't matter. One co-pilot had no idea what he was doing. There was no reason for any trouble. The aircraft was flying fine, everything was within specifications of the craft. Any decent pilot with any sense whatsoever wouldn't have had a problem.
Bonin for some baffling reason just pulled back on that stick and just wouldn't let up. He lacked basic piloting skills.
| Praxis |
Banned
They would have changed training after that accident.
The only positive to come out of these disasters is that it makes it safer for the rest of us (some airlines excluded).
NYCmetsfan
Banned
everyday math
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I'm so done with the media coverage. It's terrible. Isn't there other stuff going on around the world?
I get it a terrible tragedy has happened, but we don't need 24hr coverage.
I get it a terrible tragedy has happened, but we don't need 24hr coverage.
Yup, it's another case of a crash that could have been prevented if the pilots did nothing and trusted the computer instead of trying to fix the issue (or non-issues in some cases) themselves.
The economics of 24 hour news begs to differ.
Well first of all, nobody knows exactly what happened. Secondly, my point was about "where" the plane is. This whole "we found debris, oh wait never mind" bait and switch is not indicative being very knowledgeable of the location....and seems more like stalling.
I'm not going to wait for the 10th false report until I say, "Maybe there's no actual debris in this area"
But they did find debris. Pictures of stuff in the ocean is finding debris. No one has ever said any of it was definitely from a plane crash, and in fact have done precisely the opposite. People want to know the status of the search so we're told when a new lead develops.
It's indicative of the fact that they don't know the precise location, just that it fell into the Indian Ocean (though the available hard data does allow them to narrow it down quite substantially). No bait and switch at all, just you thinking that the potential debris sightings were something more than that, a potential.
Watched that earlier. Just wow. I can't believe how easy they could of avoided the catastrophe if it hadn't been for the incompetence of the Pilots. What was the Captain thinking, going to sleep after flying into the storm instead of flying around it, which is common practice?
Scary how the negligence of a few can impact thousands of people.
That's exactly my point. If you're finding everything else BUT debris from the plane, maybe you're searching in the wrong area.
Maybe.
Or the area is huge and trash and other floating objects are common?
StopMakingSense
Member
And the gap in time from satellite data and currents to getting radar planes and boats in the area makes it all a crapshoot anyways.
How huge, exactly? Isn't there a specific search area that they've thoroughly scoured? Unless, of course, the search area is "the ocean", in which case there is no search area and we don't know where the plane is.
Edit:^^^^ Thousands of square kilometers.
Autopilot shut down because the instruments showed faulty readings. The problem was they didn't know how the plane worked when the computer didn't fly it and their lack of experience in that situation probably made them/the pilot flying believe that the plane wasn't stalling.
Autopilot shut down because the instruments showed faulty readings. The problem was they didn't know how the plane worked when the computer didn't fly it and their lack of experience in that situation probably made them/the pilot flying believe that the plane wasn't stalling.
Exactly.
They've narrowed it down considerably from what the search area was, but it's still immense. They aren't looking for an old man who left on a scooter, this is a modern airplane capable of high speed that can move long distances in a short amount of time. The potential area is very large and the current search area is like 600,000 square miles.
Yes the AP turned off but there was still no reason for the pilot to make any changes to the plane. If they had left it where it was it would have continued normally and eventually the Pitot tube would have came back.
With the intense scrutiny on Malaysia now I would not be surprised if people there now knew, if the not the details, but the general sentiment about how Malaysia treats Chinese people.
I already accounted for that
"Bad weather. Passage of time. Welp...."
Works out great for them.
Well maybe I'm just expecting results to quickly so let me ask you a question: based on what we know about the "location/search area" and based on previous oceanic disasters, how long do you think it should reasonably take before a single, identifiable part of the plane is found?
I saw that press conference last night. One of those guys also said something like "it's not like trying to find a needle in a haystack; it's like trying to find the haystack." Another thing that led me to believe that they have no clue where to look.
backflip10019
Member
'Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.'
I really REALLY hope they find the plane.
At this point, not because I want to know what exactly happen but so they can recover all (most?) of the passengers' bodies so their relatives at least can say their last goodbye.
I can't even imagine how all of those families feel right now without a body to cry to.
At this point, not because I want to know what exactly happen but so they can recover all (most?) of the passengers' bodies so their relatives at least can say their last goodbye.
I can't even imagine how all of those families feel right now without a body to cry to.
That's not a question that someone can answer. None of these crashes are the same and this one is in fact very unique. How long should it take you to find a lost child? I don't know.
Most modern-day oceanic disasters (involving commercial airliners) that disappear from radar are found within a few days.
Because they had a better idea of where they were for a number of reasons. Why did you just take one characteristic of this event and use that to compare? How many flights without functioning transponders or ACARS that deviated from its flight path have been found?
Based on the heavy weather impeding the search (and also blowing any floating debris around and under) and the distance from land and lack of ships in the area (normal pattern), it could be weeks or months before anything concrete and identifiable is found. Every day that passes increases the search area for floating things by hundreds of square miles. And if floating things are discovered at some point, they could be so far away from the crash site and any submerged parts, that those could take months/years to be found themselves.
Based on the best available data and seemingly the best available experts, the search is going on in the correct area, but the area is huge. To believe otherwise is to fuel baseless conspiracies at this point.
I don't think that's gonna happen for a crash in the ocean due to feasibility. Their main concern will be recovering the parts of the plane that will help them piece together the cause of the crash.
Fjolle
Member
You obviously did go through all modern-day oceanic disasters involving commercial airliners. Can you give me a list?
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I think there's a very good possibility that the flight recorders will never be found.
I can't imagine how the captain's family feels like.
Not only did they lost a husband/father, but they have to live with the fact that he was the cause of another 239 people's death. Whether acting by himself or on someone elses orders - the family will be hated by the families of the other passengers/crew members for the rest of their lives. CNN conspiracy drama speculation adds to it.
If anything, they really need to find this plane to give closure to all these people involved. They are all in limbo.
Not only did they lost a husband/father, but they have to live with the fact that he was the cause of another 239 people's death. Whether acting by himself or on someone elses orders - the family will be hated by the families of the other passengers/crew members for the rest of their lives. CNN conspiracy drama speculation adds to it.
If anything, they really need to find this plane to give closure to all these people involved. They are all in limbo.
I have to step out so I can't respond to this right now, I'll come back to it later.
Well this isn't a complete list but this is something I was looking at earlier. It's a "Search Analysis for the Location of the AF447 Underwater Wreckage" which includes information about several other oceanic disasters which I then found more info on: http://www.bea.aero/fr/enquetes/vol.af.447/metron.search.analysis.pdf (PDF file)
http://www.india.com/whatever/mh370-search-operation-watch-the-furious-side-of-indian-ocean-27997/
that is a video of the ocean conditions in the search area. with all the white water etc, that boat could literally run over debris and not have seen it or be expected to see it.
also, they have some idea of where to look BUT they don't have a specific spot like they did with AF447 which went down with ACARS going nuts back to base and their transponder on.
when did it actually run out of fuel? maybe they know within half and hour. that half hr equates to 450km of running. 1 hr 900km.
did the aircraft deviate after the last ping, if so which way.
did it deviate after flaming out. that would add maybe up to 200km ( yes that far gliding)
so you've got a search area at least the size of alaska, where significant parts of the aircraft are under 3000 - 6000m of water, in probably the roughest part of any ocean.
this at best is like trying to find small bits of a needle in field of haystacks.
In what way is that things working well for them? What's their agenda?
All airplanes that crash into the ocean end up missing on radar. It's an event common to ALL crashes, which is why I compared them all using that common thread. My point was that end up "missing" at some point and need to be "found".
But I suppose I was a little off base in assuming that we actually had an approximation of where the plane is. Inmarsat said the plane is in the "southern Indian Ocean", right? That's not a search area. Might as well say it crashed "in water....maybe".
I was going to compare similar search and rescue operations until I realized that we're just randomly combing parts of the Indian Ocean. There is no search area.
I bet you also thought it was a conspiracy for the plane to have flown over the straits of Malacca.
Before you suggest something is "impossible", you might want to wait for more information.
I don't think there is an "agenda", per se. Only that they have no idea where anything is and are just waiting for more concrete data/information.
They have to look SOMEWHERE, right? And right now, it's the southern Indian Ocean.
The satellite guys have a last known position.
the time it took to get there and the known loaded fuel give them an area.
a fucking huge area granted, but an area. the southern ocean is a vast vast vast unforgiving place.
that aircraft was probably even out of Jindalees range, esp down there as there are no threats from the south.
they are doing what they can.
There isn't anything random about it. You keep taking one little snippet of the full story and running off with it into crazy land.
Name one plane crash where an aircraft went down at sea with no transponder, no radio contact, no ACARS and severely off course.
If the weather was calm and predictable, maybe. Weather in that part of the world is not usually either.
Then explain to me the methodology of the search, other than "let's look in the Indian ocean"
That was found? I have no idea. I don't even know of any plane crashes where the locator/communication devices were immediately turned off in-flight. But even still, the oceanic disasters where the authorities had NO idea where the plane was after losing contact (like Adam Air Flight 574) had a search area afterwards.
But that's exactly my point as to why they have no idea where it is, because it drastically differs from all other oceanic disasters (that I know of). I was operating on the assumption that there was an actual search area.
toxicgonzo
Taxes?! Isn't this the line for Metallica?
Worse yet, decades later, the flight recorder is found after tens of millions are spent trying to find it.
The voice recorder (which holds only the last 2 hours of audio) is blank. The flight data recorder shows the plane flew 'til it ran out of fuel.
And we were no closer to solving the mystery of MH370...
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