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[SniperHunter]

Maybe someone on board had a satellite phone.

apparently there is one in the cockpit but it was never used.

 

[Phthisis]

Don't know if this tidbit from CNN's article today was posted yet?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/13/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

But there's another confusing twist. An emergency beacon that would have sent data if the plane was about to impact the ocean apparently did not go off, the official said, suggesting perhaps the plane was still likely in some stable flight pattern when it disappeared.

 

[Stormwatch]

Don't know if this tidbit from CNN's article today was posted yet?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/13/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

That was my question on the whole incident. I would have thought the Emergency Locator Transmitter would have gone off if they impacted the water. Something is just not right here.

 

[ChainedMaster]

They've always been experts in geography

The hell is that bottom one. Is that...Yugoslavia?

 

[MThanded]

Don't know if this tidbit from CNN's article today was posted yet?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/13/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Yeah the 777 has 2 transmitters. One for impact and one for when the plane takes on water. I have no idea of their range.

 

[Disorientator]

I am surprised people didn't turn on their phones or laptops and leave messages or emails for the loved ones. I am guessing 3g works at 35,000 ft right? or 4g? Some planes even have wifi these days

Maybe someone on board had a satellite phone.

Need to be conscious first though - got a -bad- feeling hypoxia was part of the problem here.

 

[Linkhero1]

Need to be conscious first though - got a -bad- feeling hypoxia was part of the problem here.

This is what I think as well, though, it would be weird for the plane to keep on flying without anyone noticing.

 

[FStop7]

Need to be conscious first though - got a -bad- feeling hypoxia was part of the problem here.

Jesus, just the thought of an airliner cruising on autopilot, full of 239 people who are already dead... god, that makes the hair on my neck stand up.

 

[Ovid]

I am surprised people didn't turn on their phones or laptops and leave messages or emails for the loved ones. I am guessing 3g works at 35,000 ft right? or 4g? Some planes even have wifi these days

No coverage at that altitude.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

The hell is that bottom one. Is that...Yugoslavia?

Yea its a map from the early 90s at best and they put Bulgaria and Serbia in the wrong places

 

[The Main Event]

WSJ: The plane may have landed somewhere.

 

[Ovid]

WSJ: The plane may have landed somewhere.

Great reporting guys.

 

[Sectorseven]

Need to be conscious first though - got a -bad- feeling hypoxia was part of the problem here.

Well a satellite phone has to keep itself in sync with the satellite, yes? Maybe they could trace the plane that way, at least up until the phone stopped working. Assuming there's even one on board of course.

 

[speculawyer]

Speculation: I wonder if something smashed into the cockpit and took out the pilots (either through impact or hypoxia). And then the locked cabin door prevented anyone from getting in there such that the plane flew for a long time before running out of fuel and crashing.

If so, it could have ended a LONG way away from the current search sites.

 

[Disorientator]

Jesus, just the thought of an airliner cruising on autopilot, full of 239 people who are already dead... god, that makes the hair on my neck stand up.

I know man.

Technically they are not "dead" though.

Autopsies from the victims of Helios Airways Flight 522 showed they were all alive during impact.

 

[MThanded]

The plane may or may not be have landed or crashed in water or on land.

Jesus, just the thought of an airliner cruising on autopilot, full of 239 people who are already dead... god, that makes the hair on my neck stand up.

If hypoxia occurred they were alive the whole time just unconscious. Even scarier thought.

 

[Falk]

WSJ: The plane may have landed somewhere.

The shaman was wrong!

 

[Ovid]

Speculation: I wonder if something smashed into the cockpit and took out the pilots (either through impact or hypoxia). And then the locked cabin door prevented anyone from getting in there such that the plane flew for a long time before running out of fuel and crashing.

If so, it could have ended a LONG way away from the current search sites.

Correct -- they've turned they're attention to the Indian Ocean.

 

[rkn]

I'm sure this has been brought up every time something like this happens.

I know pilots are rightly trained to handle the emergency situation in front of them, and communication with any air traffic control is the last thing on the list of things to do.

But wouldn't all the man hours of searching for potentially years all be saved if there was some sort of protocol for phoning in emergencies? A third man or automated trigger, a button which sends out last recorded position. It seems incredibly obvious so I'm sure there are reasons why it isn't or couldn't be possible, but educate me.

 

[FStop7]

So many rumors going around, including that the homes of the pilots were searched. I mean they must have already considered the possibility of this having been a pilot suicide.

I feel the worst for the families whose lives are basically stuck in limbo. They can't properly grieve and move on, they can't quite let go of hope, they're just caught in a nightmare.

 

[Falk]

What if a catastrophe takes out that third man and/or button and/or the automated systems as well? Would we start including a fourth man?

 

[Sectorseven]

Speculation: I wonder if something smashed into the cockpit and took out the pilots (either through impact or hypoxia). And then the locked cabin door prevented anyone from getting in there such that the plane flew for a long time before running out of fuel and crashing.

If so, it could have ended a LONG way away from the current search sites.

That doesn't explain the transponder shutting off though. I'm not sure how the cockpit could suffer enough damage to incapacitate the whole crew and damage the controls enough to destroy all communications, yet keep it intact enough to fly for potentially several hours.

 

[HerbertFish]

I'm sure this has been brought up every time something like this happens.

I know pilots are rightly trained to handle the emergency situation in front of them, and communication with any air traffic control is the last thing on the list of things to do.

But wouldn't all the man hours of searching for potentially years all be saved if there was some sort of protocol for phoning in emergencies? A third man or automated trigger, a button which sends out last recorded position. It seems incredibly obvious so I'm sure there are reasons why it isn't or couldn't be possible, but educate me.

All the tracking data in the plane already basically do that already. It's just that it can be turned off.

 

[Arcteryx]

Speculation: I wonder if something smashed into the cockpit and took out the pilots (either through impact or hypoxia). And then the locked cabin door prevented anyone from getting in there such that the plane flew for a long time before running out of fuel and crashing.

If so, it could have ended a LONG way away from the current search sites.

The cockpit isn't "sealed" from the cabin, ie: if something happened in the cockpit that caused hypoxia, it would also happen to the cabin(and vice versa, which is why the cockpit has extended oxygen supply).

 

[pestul]

WSJ: The plane may have landed somewhere.

Is the WSJ sourcing anything, or is it just more stupid circle-jerk speculation?

 

[Disorientator]

Speculation: I wonder if something smashed into the cockpit and took out the pilots (either through impact or hypoxia). And then the locked cabin door prevented anyone from getting in there such that the plane flew for a long time before running out of fuel and crashing.

If I'm not mistaken the chief flight attendant (purser) also has the cabin door code.

Doesn't mean he/she could pilot the plane of course, but maybe could send a mayday or something.

 

[rkn]

What if a catastrophe takes out that third man and/or button and/or the automated systems as well? Would we start including a fourth man?

Yeah, that would be the obvious flaw in such a system, I just watched that Air France doc, and recall other plane disaster post mortems and the final moments are mostly always the pilots not knowing what the hell is happening, and being concerned with figuring that out while alarms go off I'm sure isn't the situation for rationality. I'd just imagine that the moment you get unexpected behavior, in the case of a mechanical failure such a system or protocol certainly wouldn't hurt.

All the tracking data in the plane already basically do that already. It's just that it can be turned off.

Yeah, I know very little about the flight business, I'm sure there are budgetary reasons and just plain design reasons why it isn't feasible. I think it's a cultural thing that might need to change, like unsealed and reinforced doors prior to 9/11, if communication during a disaster isn't possible such as a case where there is an explosion or what have you, then yeah, moot point, but it seems like the cultural response is to communicate as a last resort.

 

[Magni]

I know man.

Technically they are not "dead" though.

Autopsies from the victims of Helios Airways Flight 522 showed they were all alive during impact.

Fuck.

After the aircraft was returned into service, the flight crew overlooked the pressurisation system state on three separate occasions: during the pre-flight procedure, the after-start check, and the after take-off check. During these checks, no one in the flight crew noticed the incorrect setting.[8] The aircraft took off at 9:07[3] with the pressurisation system still set to "manual", and the aft outflow valve partially open.[9]

As the aircraft climbed, the pressure inside the cabin gradually decreased. As it passed through an altitude of 12,040 feet (3,670 m), the cabin altitude warning horn sounded.[3] The warning should have prompted the crew to stop climbing,[10] but it was misidentified by the crew as a take-off configuration warning, which signals that the aircraft is not ready for take-off, and can only sound on the ground.[10]

In the next few minutes, several warning lights on the overhead panel in the cockpit illuminated. One or both of the equipment cooling warning lights came on to indicate low airflow through the cooling fans (a result of the decreased air density), accompanied by the master caution light. The passenger oxygen light illuminated when, at an altitude of approximately 18,000 feet (5,500 m), the oxygen masks in the passenger cabin automatically deployed.[11][12]

Shortly after the cabin altitude warning sounded, the captain radioed the Helios operations centre and reported "the take-off configuration warning on" and "cooling equipment normal and alternate off line".[3] He then spoke to the ground engineer and repeatedly stated that the "cooling ventilation fan lights were off".[3] The engineer (the one who had conducted the pressurization leak check) asked "Can you confirm that the pressurization panel is set to AUTO?" The captain, however, disregarded the question and instead asked in reply, "Where are my equipment cooling circuit breakers?".[12] This was the last communication with the aircraft.

So many things went wrong on that flight, it would have been so easy to avoid that crash

 

[Falk]

On a more constructive note, any kind of tracking that's foolproof in those situation has to come from outside the craft.

As has been brought up a few times already though, at this point of time with what technology and resources the civilization has, that's a pretty tall order and not exactly worth the returns.

 

[Lamel]

Calling it. North Korean's hijacked it.

Un needed a new plane.

 

[Yamauchi]

If this thing is in the Indian Ocean, I fear they'll never find it.

 

[Sun Drugs]

Is the WSJ sourcing anything, or is it just more stupid circle-jerk speculation?

CNN is saying the WSJ reporter said US investigators are looking at the possibility that the plane may have landed.

 

[Arcteryx]

CNN is saying the WSJ reporter said US investigators are looking at the possibility that the plane may have landed.

WSJ reporter mentions it here, http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2014/03/13/malaysia-plane-pasztor , but (of course) doesn't give a source.

 

[crozier]

The plane may have....landed? What is that theory even based on?

 

[No Love]

CNN is saying the WSJ reporter said US investigators are looking at the possibility that the plane may have landed.

Really? lol

 

[toxicgonzo]

The cockpit isn't "sealed" from the cabin, ie: if something happened in the cockpit that caused hypoxia, it would also happen to the cabin(and vice versa, which is why the cockpit has extended oxygen supply).

To add to this, the engineers already considered this as a possible failure mode.

Think of this - if the cockpit suddenly depressurizes, the only thing that separates the cockpit from the cabin is the cockpit door. Even a pressure differential of 3 psi (it would be considerably higher at altitude) multiplied over the surface area of a 1500 in^2 and suddenly you have a few thousand lbs of force tearing the door off its hinges and flying somewhere as a dangerous projectile.

So the cockpit door is engineered with blow out panels that are specifically made weaker than the rest of the door in case of loss of cabin pressure. By doing so, it can equalize the pressure without the door flying off its hinges.

 

[Daft_Cat]

The plane may have....landed? What is that theory even based on?

Transmissions from the engines suggest the plane flew for up to four hours after the transponder stopped functioning, and the plane dropped off radar. The plane has not been found, and therefore it's not inconceivable to theorize that it might have landed. It's unlikely, and it would definitely suggest maliciousness....but it's possible.

 

[MThanded]

CNN is saying the WSJ reporter said US investigators are looking at the possibility that the plane may have landed.

The lack of proof that it has crashed. I guess its still a valid possibility until we have proof the plane landed.

It's a hard speculation to believe.

 

[Wasp]

If there's a bunch of crash debris and oil floating around in middle of the ocean somewhere surely it will begin to be washed up on the shores sooner or later? I guess when that happens it would help to narrow the search.

I wonder if the plane could have crashed into the sea and sunk whilst causing very little to no floating debris?

 

[crozier]

Transmissions from the engines suggest the plane flew for up to four hours after the transponder stopped functioning, and the plane dropped off radar. The plane has not been found, and therefore it's not inconceivable to theorize that it might have landed. It's unlikely, and it would definitely suggests maliciousness....but it's possible.

I guess. It seems cruel to even mention such a remote theory to the media, though, given that so many family members are grieving. False hope is just wrong...

 

[Daft_Cat]

The lack of proof that it has crashed. I guess its still a valid possibility until we have proof the plane landed.

It's a hard speculation to believe.

Yupp. The more likely scenario is probably that the same mechanical issue that disabled the transponder also caused a slow decompression. Plane was probably flying with everyone on board unconscious or dead. It's highly likely that the plane crashed into the ocean...but it probably crashed 4 hours away (in any given direction) from the point in which it dropped off radar.

I guess. It seems cruel to even mention such a remote theory to the media, though, given that so many family members are grieving. False hope is just wrong...

Yah. Besides, I'd say the likelihood is even less than "remote". If the plane landed, but we haven't heard from it, then what does that suggest? Terrorists? Everyone on board would have had cell phones. I have no idea what coverage is like in remote areas of southeast Asia, but I gotta imagine there would have been some sort of word.

 

[btkadams]

If there's a bunch of crash debris and oil floating around in middle of the ocean somewhere surely it will begin to be washed up on the shores sooner or later? I guess when that happens it would help to narrow the search.

I wonder if the plane could have crashed into the sea and sunk whilst causing very little to no floating debris?

wasn't the oil debunked though? i thought some expert said that aviation fuel wouldn't be coloured like the oil slicks found.

 

[SniperHunter]

If there's a bunch of crash debris and oil floating around in middle of the ocean somewhere surely it will begin to be washed up on the shores sooner or later? I guess when that happens it would help to narrow the search.

I wonder if the plane could have crashed into the sea and sunk whilst causing very little to no floating debris?

most planes actually fall apart during the dive, so there should be some floating debris no matter what. plus stuff like the life jackets and other floating debris comes up quickly

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

UK Channel 5 have a live program on this tomorrow. http://www.channel5.com/articles/the-plane-that-vanished-live-trailer

I find it weird to do this so soon and jumping the gun a bit if it is found in the next few hours.

 

[Yamauchi]

Yupp. The more likely scenario is probably that the same mechanical issue that disabled the transponder also caused a slow decompression. Plane was probably flying with everyone on board unconscious or dead. It's highly likely that the plane crashed into the ocean...but it probably crashed 4 hours away (in any given direction) from the point in which it dropped off radar.

Found this comment on a website today. Kinda curious about his points:

Schiavo stated that the pilots at 35,000 feet had only 30 seconds before passing out. In a rapid decompression, the aircraft cabin doesn't go immediately to altitude, it takes a little time for the cabin to depressurize. The time of useful consciousness at 35,000 feet is 30 to 60 seconds; all transport category jets have "Quick Don" oxygen masks. It takes about 3 seconds to put them on, and at 35,000 feet you will stay alert as long as the Oxygen lasts, plenty of time to descend and fly the plane. The Airworthiness Directive is for cracking under the SATCOM antenna which is on the top of the fuselage ahead of the tail. There are no other com antennas in that area. The HF antenna is in the leading edge of the vertical stabilizer (tail) the L VHF antenna is above the cockpit and the center and right VHF antennas are on the bottom of the fuselage. Loss of the SATCOM antenna should not have prevented them from communicating. There are two antennas for the ATC transponder on the top and bottom of the forward fuselage; again, not in that area and the should have kept working. A fuselage crack doesn't normally lead to loss of the aircraft but, if it did, right there when they lost com, where is the debris. When an aircraft breaks up at altitude there is a huge amount of debris, much of which floats. Where is it?

 

[Trouble]

The lack of proof that it has crashed. I guess its still a valid possibility until we have proof the plane landed.

It's a hard speculation to believe.

The plane may have entered a portal to another dimension.

 

[Pandemic]

Yeah the 777 has 2 transmitters. One for impact and one for when the plane takes on water. I have no idea of their range.

Strange.. Surely the range wouldn't matter doesn't it communicate via satellite?

 

[Blair]

UK Channel 5 have a live program on this tomorrow. http://www.channel5.com/articles/the-plane-that-vanished-live-trailer

I find it weird to do this so soon and jumping the gun a bit if it is found in the next few hours.

Just like when bbc reported WTC7 had collapsed before it actually did. The British are behind this shit.

 

[Konka]

The plane may have....landed? What is that theory even based on?

Because there is nothing so far that indicates that it crashed.

 

[BWJinxing]

The plane may have....landed? What is that theory even based on?

No crash transponder Or the transponder that signals the aircraft has taken on water was activated.

My dad was thinking it landed aswell as strange as it sounds, It sounds like something out of old school bond movie, where shuttles and planes were abducted.