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Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 ended in the Southern Indian Ocean

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what shocked me about that accident is that it was partly caused by the new learner co-pilot who was holding back the whole time on the control stick. Airbus controls work in aggregate, so the guy that was nosing down a bit, was counteracted by the learner who was holding back a LOT. resulting in a gradual nose up -> Stall -> fall -> death.

Captain figured it out right before impact :(
Indeed. The one I watched recreated the whole dialogue from the flight recordings... it was incredibly frustrating to hear so many mistakes compounding on top of each other. There were many opportunities to get out of the situation and they just did everything wrong. So scary how three pilots, two of them very experienced, became confused so quickly.
 

Krakatoa

Member
If there was an electrical fire, the plane wouldn't have turned in the complete opposite direction nor would have continued flying for several more hours.

Why not, they could have turned around to try and make it back home using VFR.

Flying VFR with low visibility is tough!!
 

graywords

Member
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/14/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html
It's entirely possible the plane went southwest instead of northwest.
Edit: if true, the plane would have crashed in deep water.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/world/asia/malaysia-military-radar.html?hp&_r=0
The plane ascended to 45000ft then descended to 23,000ft in a short period of time.
Take with a grain of salt as the data doesn't really make sense to investigators.

Analysis resulting in conflicting data, lovely! Well, it's something...

I'm just wondering how they can know the westwardly component, and know that there WAS another component of X amount, but they're not sure if it's N or S? I'm not a pilot, so no idea how that would be confused so easily. Is it like knowing a latitude but someone leaving off the N or S marker?
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Cheezmos post is it.

The blog posts misses they actually called for arms to protect themselves but they never got them. I just imagine them after the fact telling stories about these strange creatures flying and making loud noises. Its just crazy.

JESUS this is so interesting. I've been reading about these lost civilizations for hours now.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Who else knew about the existence of Andaman and Nicobar islands before this story broke?

*raises hand*

I have swum in, and Island hopped in the Andaman sea. As have most people who beach vacationed in Thailand. Crazy beautiful. Amazing tropics and landscapes. Also where The Beach was filmed. (DiCaprio)
 

Blader

Member
Why not, they could have turned around to try and make it back home using VFR.

Flying VFR with low visibility is tough!!

Um...an electrical fire means the plane is on fire. Meaning you should probably land at the giant land mass right ahead of you, and not turn west and fly out over the Indian Ocean for four hours.
 

Phthisis

Member
The longer this goes on without any real breakthrough, the more I return to foul play as the root cause. :/

It almost certainly is at this point. Turning off of transponder, irregular altitude and course changes, flying back and forth to specific navigational waypoints in the area. The plane was not being cruise-controlled by autopilot if all that was going on.

The only way I can foresee it not being foul play is if something happened to the flight crew and one of the passengers (wwith little to no flight experience) tried to take the helm to get the plane to safety or something.
 

Krakatoa

Member
Um...an electrical fire means the plane is on fire. Meaning you should probably land at the giant land mass right ahead of you, and not turn west and fly out over the Indian Ocean for four hours.

Like I said flying VFR is very hard to do in low visibility, They could have been trying to head back home but swayed of course.

Have you ever tried walking by a compass using no visual sites as references?
 
aliens or a vortex?
thelangoliers.jpg

I'm still going with this.
 

Falk

that puzzling face
It almost certainly is at this point. Turning off of transponder, irregular altitude and course changes, flying back and forth to specific navigational waypoints in the area. The plane was not being cruise-controlled by autopilot if all that was going on.

The only way I can foresee it not being foul play is if something happened to the flight crew and one of the passengers (wwith little to no flight experience) tried to take the helm to get the plane to safety or something.

Well, if you're going to believe speculation and possibilities, then the only logical deduction is this is an experiment in quantum physics and the plane has split and is in 3, maybe 4 different places at once. Sorta like a three-headed Schrodinger's Cat.

You can't play favorites and cherry pick which report(s) to believe.
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
This one?

Bis68mGCQAERHj4.jpg:large

so, something like this?

1 - f***! All comms down. No idea where we are. Let's just head West and we will end up back to Malaysia.

(wind blows trajectory South)

2 - s**t! Can't change altitude here. Let's head to Phuket.

3 - son of a b***h! Too busy here to change flight surface when flying dark, too many planes heading to Phuket tonight. Dammit!!

4 - let's try Andaman Islands. They should be easy to spot and no air traffic, so changing surface is safe...

5 - **** ****, out of gas!
 

Phthisis

Member
Well, if you're going to believe speculation and possibilities, then the only logical deduction is this is an experiment in quantum physics and the plane has split and is in 3, maybe 4 different places at once. Sorta like a three-headed Schrodinger's Cat.

You can't play favorites and cherry pick which report(s) to believe.

That's an extreme point of view.

I'm willing to give the NYT, ABC International, BBC, CNN, and other major news organizations the benefit of the doubt that their reports and sources are reliable.

And if I'm wrong, then I'm fine with being wrong. Not like it changes anything.
 
Would Occams Razor point to foul play given the facts? It seems far less likely that a series of events (multiple communications systems off, change in direction) occurred by accident rather than as a coordinated effort by a person or group of people. A hijacking seems like the simpler, cleaner explanation at this point.
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
Would Occams Razor point to foul play given the facts? It seems far less likely that a series of events (multiple communications systems off, change in direction) occurred by accident rather than as a coordinated effort by a person or group of people. A hijacking seems like the simpler, cleaner explanation at this point.

I don't think so. Malicious intents open many more questions (why hijack the plane? why nobody interfered? why there? Why the many changes of course? etc.).

Much simpler answer is that they lost all comms systems, attempted multiple approach scenarios to places they knew, and ultimately ran out of gas and crashed.
 

luso

Member
On TV right now the Silk Air185 episode is airing... It was also in a "blind" spot the plane dove, but this MHA does not seems to be suicide.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
I don't think so. Malicious intents open many more questions (why hijack the plane? why nobody interfered? why there? Why the many changes of course? etc.).

Much simpler answer is that they lost all comms systems, attempted multiple approach scenarios to places they knew, and ultimately ran out of gas and crashed.

Occam's Razor in this case contains a qualifier - two Iranians flying on stolen passports to literally anywhere in Europe, with their tickets being purchased by an Iranian citizen.
 
I don't think so. Malicious intents open many more questions (why hijack the plane? why nobody interfered? why there? Why the many changes of course? etc.).

Much simpler answer is that they lost all comms systems, attempted multiple approach scenarios to places they knew, and ultimately ran out of gas and crashed.

Doesn't your "much simpler reason" generate just as many questions that are more complicated to answer? Why did they lose all comm systems but still fly for so long? Why were multiple comm systems down and no emergency signals sent? If something did happen to trigger that, why didn't they head to a major airport?

A hijacking is one thing that needs to be explained, and we know for a fact that there are people out there that would like to hijack a plane. The accident seems to involve a series of different things occurring that are each fairly unlikely on their own. To me, the hijacking or some other deliberate human act is simpler and more likely at this point.
 

toxicgonzo

Taxes?! Isn't this the line for Metallica?
Would Occams Razor point to foul play given the facts? It seems far less likely that a series of events (multiple communications systems off, change in direction) occurred by accident rather than as a coordinated effort by a person or group of people. A hijacking seems like the simpler, cleaner explanation at this point.

I don't think so. Malicious intents open many more questions (why hijack the plane? why nobody interfered? why there? Why the many changes of course? etc.).

Much simpler answer is that they lost all comms systems, attempted multiple approach scenarios to places they knew, and ultimately ran out of gas and crashed.
The even simpler answer is human intervention happened. Hijacking, like terrorism? Sure, could be, but there's still the possibility of suicide whether it be the pilot or a deranged passenger acting as pilot.

Imagine a spiteful passenger or pilot that wants to kill themselves but also wants to be as big as nuisance as possible (for their ego's sake).
He or she crashes the plane and wins by killing him or herself, everybody on board dies as well, double win.
Throw off the search and rescue by making them think the plane crashed in one area then fly off into the middle of the ocean to disappear
so millions of dollars in SAR and man hours are wasted while simultaneously making it a nightmare for victim's families to find closure on a missing plane.
As a bonus, it could still look like an accident and the life insurance policy would still pay off.
 
If all these events on the plane like ascents, changes in course (maybe hijacking) happened subtly enough, would the passengers even be aware of what's happening?
 

MThanded

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
I don't think so. Malicious intents open many more questions (why hijack the plane? why nobody interfered? why there? Why the many changes of course? etc.).

Much simpler answer is that they lost all comms systems, attempted multiple approach scenarios to places they knew, and ultimately ran out of gas and crashed.
I have no idea what happened but statistically speaking full comms failure is extremely unlikely.
 

Jintor

Member
Malaysia Airlines Expands Investigation to Include General Scope of Time, Space

The airline, now in its fifth day of searching for the passenger jet carrying 239 passengers and crew, has come under fire for its perceived mishandling of the investigation, whose confusing and contradictory reports have failed to provide definitive answers on everything from how long the missing plane remained aloft after losing contact with air traffic controllers, to whether the flight made a radical alteration in its heading, to the very dimensions of space-time and the nature of reality, and what exactly it is that brought us into existence and imbued us with this thing we call life.

Additionally, the airline confirmed it had expanded its active search area to include a several-hundred-square-mile zone in the Indian Ocean as well as each of the seven or 22 additional spatial dimensions posited by string theory.

“We continue to do everything in our power and explore every possible lead—both Cartesian and phenomenological—to locate the aircraft as quickly as possible,” said Malaysia’s civil aviation chief Azharuddin Abdul Rahman, who went on to say that authorities were still actively seeking tips from anyone claiming knowledge related either to the flight, or to the mechanisms by which consciousness arises, or to the question of why anything physical and finite exists instead of nothing at all. “At this stage, we can’t rule anything out: not crew interference with the transponders, not a catastrophic electrical failure, not the emergence of a complex topological feature of space-time such as an Einstein-Rosen bridge that could have deposited the flight at any location in the universe or a different time period altogether, nothing.”

[Obviously an Onion article. But I found it amusing they quoted the air chief)
 

Falk

that puzzling face
If all these events on the plane like ascents, changes in course (maybe hijacking) happened subtly enough, would the passengers even be aware of what's happening?

I recall MAS international flights having in-flight entertainment that included the usual route status jazz and all that. That'd have to be either faked, or turned off without questions from the passengers, if you wanted a hypothetical hijacking situation where passengers were conscious and unaware of anything being amiss.
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
Couldn't they have just flown below 10,000 feet and used a cell phone to contact an airport?

The even simpler answer is human intervention happened. Hijacking, like terrorism? Sure, could be, but there's still the possibility of suicide whether it be the pilot or a deranged passenger acting as pilot.

Imagine a spiteful passenger or pilot that wants to kill themselves but also wants to be as big as nuisance as possible (for their ego's sake).
He or she crashes the plane and wins by killing him or herself, everybody on board dies as well, double win.
Throw off the search and rescue by making them think the plane crashed in one area then fly off into the middle of the ocean to disappear
so millions of dollars in SAR and man hours are wasted while simultaneously making it a nightmare for victim's families to find closure on a missing plane.
As a bonus, it could still look like an accident and the life insurance policy would still pay off.

Doesn't your "much simpler reason" generate just as many questions that are more complicated to answer? Why did they lose all comm systems but still fly for so long? Why were multiple comm systems down and no emergency signals sent? If something did happen to trigger that, why didn't they head to a major airport?

A hijacking is one thing that needs to be explained, and we know for a fact that there are people out there that would like to hijack a plane. The accident seems to involve a series of different things occurring that are each fairly unlikely on their own. To me, the hijacking or some other deliberate human act is simpler and more likely at this point.

The thing is, the map looks like the plane was shopping for a direction to go to.

For a highjacked plane so many deliberate and conflicting direction changes don't make much sense. The highjackers would either have a direction in mind where they wanted to go to, or there would be a struggle that would down the plane. Not a flight towards a waypoint, change of heart, flight towards another waypoint, another change of heart, flight towards a third waypoint. Same for suicide - I can't see a suiciding pilot changing direction three times just out of spite, to 'throw off people'. Once, maybe.

A pilot friend of mine told me that changing flight level without authorisation is a huge no-no to any trained pilot. So if comms systems would be down, the pilots would feel discouraged to change flight level in a location they found busy. They would know that changing the flight level would risk not only their plane but other planes too. So they would attempt approach if they knew that flight level change would be safe, and could change direction if they found that chaining flight level would be too risky. That could explain the criss crossing and heading to Andaman Islands (known as a quiet airport, fairly easy to spot)
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
If all these events on the plane like ascents, changes in course (maybe hijacking) happened subtly enough, would the passengers even be aware of what's happening?

Though they don't think it exactly accurate, the NY Times article states the plane made a very rapid decent at some point. The passengers would definitely notice that.
 
Though they don't think it exactly accurate, the NY Times article states the plane made a very rapid decent at some point. The passengers would definitely notice that.

CNN did a flight simulator thing...these movements would have DEFINITELY been noticed by the passengers, if not completely incapacitated many of them...
 

Dawg

Member
I find stuff like this fascinating. The longer it takes them to find it, the more you begin to wonder what could have happened.

Of course, they will eventually find it and I guess there will be a plausible explanation.

That said, as long as its fate remains a mystery... you begin to think the strangest things. Anything could have happened.

Even aliens.

Aliens!
 
CNN did a flight simulator thing...these movements would have DEFINITELY been noticed by the passengers, if not completely incapacitated many of them...


How can they be completely incapacitated by a rapid decent? United Airlines Flight 811 did the exact same thing and everyone was aware of what was going on.. its possible without oxygen in the cabin and nothing left supplying the masks
 

SmokeMaxX

Member
The thing is, the map looks like the plane was shopping for a direction to go to.

For a highjacked plane so many deliberate and conflicting direction changes don't make much sense. The highjackers would either have a direction in mind where they wanted to go to, or there would be a struggle that would down the plane. Not a flight towards a waypoint, change of heart, flight towards another waypoint, another change of heart, flight towards a third waypoint. Same for suicide - I can't see a suiciding pilot changing direction three times just out of spite, to 'throw off people'. Once, maybe.

A pilot friend of mine told me that changing flight level without authorisation is a huge no-no to any trained pilot. So if comms systems would be down, the pilots would feel discouraged to change flight level in a location they found busy. They would know that changing the flight level would risk not only their plane but other planes too. So they would attempt approach if they knew that flight level change would be safe, and could change direction if they found that chaining flight level would be too risky. That could explain the criss crossing and heading to Andaman Islands (known as a quiet airport, fairly easy to spot)
PwuVqzb.png

I've heard rumor on some of the pilot forums that the route the aircraft took may have been one that skirted the outside of known radar towers. This map of the route shows that, besides the fact that it flew right over the Malaysia-Thailand border, it was basically on a clear path towards open water (which would mean far fewer chances of getting picked up by ground based towers).

In addition, they flew right over land from Point 1 (IGARI) to Point 2 (VAMPI). If they were looking for a landing spot (due to engine failure), they probably would've just landed somewhere along the Malaysia/Thai border.
 
How can they be completely incapacitated by a rapid decent? United Airlines Flight 811 did the exact same thing and everyone was aware of what was going on.. its possible without oxygen in the cabin and nothing left supplying the masks
The ascent would have reduced oxygen levels...the decent during the insanely short time period it went down would have caused crazy g force levels...between the two...its easy to believe many on the place would have become incapacitated...
 

Phthisis

Member
http://online.wsj.com/news/article_...4579439403486098062-lMyQjAxMTA0MDEwNDExNDQyWj

Officials suspect two different systems were shut off after the plane took off last weekend, one shortly after the other, people familiar with the investigation said. About an hour into the flight, the plane's transponders stopped functioning, making it much more difficult for air-traffic control personnel to track or identify it via radar.

In the ensuing minutes, a second system sent a routine aircraft-monitoring message to a satellite indicating that someone made a manual change in the plane's heading, veering sharply to the west.

Such a turn wouldn't have been part of the original authorized route programmed in the flight-management computer that controls the autopilot. Those system-monitoring messages are suspected to have been disabled shortly afterward, according to some of these people.

...

Still, as details emerge an accident appears increasingly unlikely. The first loss of the jet's transponder, which communicates the jet's position, speed and call sign to air traffic control radar, would require disabling a circuit breaker above and behind an overhead panel. Pilots rarely, if ever, need to access the circuit breakers, which are reserved for maintenance personnel.

A physical disconnection of the satellite communications system would require extremely detailed knowledge of the aircraft, its internal structure and its systems.

...

Also emerging as a possible focus is whether more than one person on board the plane may have been involved in its disappearance.

The satellite pings stopped roughly five hours after the other systems stopped working, cutting off all identifying signals from the plane. Aviation investigators are trying to determine, among other things, whether someone would have had to climb into an electronics bay located on the plane's lower deck to disable that equipment.
 

SuperSah

Banned
This whole ordeal is scary.

I feel awful for the relatives.

My theory is hijack which went wrong and an incompetent hijacker caused it to down or something.
 

Phthisis

Member
That same author (who is WSJ's aerospace and Boeing beat writer) posted another article about the technicalities of disabling systems inside the airplane.

http://online.wsj.com/news/article_...4579439653701712312-lMyQjAxMTA0MDEwNDExNDQyWj

If multiple communication systems aboard Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 were manually disabled, as investigators increasingly suspect happened, it would have required detailed knowledge of the long-range Boeing Co. 777's inner workings.

The first loss of the jet's transponder, which communicates the jet's position, speed and call sign to air traffic control radar, would require disabling a circuit breaker above and behind an overhead panel. Pilots rarely, if ever, need to access the circuit breakers, which are reserved for maintenance personnel.

...

The shutdown of the on board reporting system shortly after the jet was last seen on radar, can be performed in a series of keystrokes on either of the cockpit's two flight management computers in the cockpit. The computers are used to set the performance of the engines on takeoff, plan the route, as well as other functions to guide the 777.

After vanishing, the jet's satellite communications system continued to ping orbiting satellites for at least five hours. The pings ceased at a point over the Indian Ocean, while the aircraft was at a normal cruise altitude, say two people familiar with the jet's last known position. Investigators are trying to understand that loss, and whether or not "something catastrophic happened or someone switched off" the satellite communication system, says one of the people.

A physical disconnection of the satellite communications system would require extremely detailed knowledge of the aircraft, its internal structure and its systems. The satellite data system is spread across the aircraft and disabling it would require physical access to key components. Disconnecting the satellite data system from the jet's central computer, known as AIMS, would disable its transmission. The central computer can be reached from inside the jet while it is flying, but its whereabouts would have to be known by someone deeply familiar with the 777.

Someone knew what they were doing to a high degree, if in fact it isn't a system failure.
 

Ovid

Member
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