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Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 ended in the Southern Indian Ocean

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CREMSteve

Member
Where could it land to refuel without anyone knowing?

Indeed, it's hard to imagine a scenario where an individual or group could pull off something of such magnitude. But that could be said of this entire series of events.

Whoever did this, if it was in fact not a mechanical event, would have seemed to have done it with incredible planning, knowledge and resources to pull it off successfully. It's not out of the realm of possibility that a landing strip couldn't be arranged.

Looking at the picture posted earlier...

WMXaTPn.jpg


That's a massive area.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
1. I don't get the difference between terrorist and hijacker

2. Reading that even 777 pilots don't know how to turn off transponders, is that right?

3. The level of sophistication required for this gives us two realistic conclusions, IMO. Military-trained terrorists or a rogue pilot.
 

WorldStar

Banned
I believe a transponder would make it appear routine.

according to years and years of Coast to Coast AM paranoid discussions I've listened, fortunately it wouldn't
(yes, I realize I'm citing Coast to Coast AM)

all that shit is already charted/expected

anything atypical sets off alarms real damn quick

and anything with a transponder off/no comms would get shot down even quicker
 

CREMSteve

Member
1. I don't get the difference between terrorist and hijacker

2. Reading that even 777 pilots don't know how to turn off transponders, is that right?

3. The level of sophistication required for this gives us two realistic conclusions, IMO. Military-trained terrorists or a rogue pilot.

Apparently, transponders are routinely turned off when the plane is on the ground, so yes, I imagine the pilots would have full knowledge of how to do so.
 

Kolgar

Member
Hold on to your hats. If someone has this plane, they know the race is on. The clock is ticking. They won't be planning to hide this thing for weeks or months; they are likely to be caught before then. They mean to use it soon.
 

WorldStar

Banned
Apparently, transponders are routinely turned off when the plane is on the ground, so yes, I imagine the pilots would have full knowledge of how to do so.

transponder was easy to turn off, other elements of the comms not so much

really good WSJ article posted earlier in this thread explaining exactly how complex/sophisticated disabling all comms is
 
Hold on to your hats. If someone has this plane, they know the race is on. The clock is ticking. They won't be planning to hide this thing for weeks or months. They mean to use it soon.

I would think they would have used it already, if that was the motive. Why wait a week until people realize it was hijacked and stolen?

People, please calm down.
 

cdkee

Banned
I would think they would have used it already, if that was the motive. Why wait a week until people realize it was hijacked and stolen?

People, please calm down.

Yeah, I mean...it could have crashed as well. Recall that guy who crashed his plane in the US and it took a year to find it.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
To be fair, if they were still in the air at 8AM, and the reports of how much fuel the flight originally took off with, they already got more fuel somewhere along the way.

That's not at all what they said. And though they've extended the search area it's still in line with how far it could've gotten with 16 hours of fuel.
 
It's crazy yeah.

People who think the authorities were sitting on this for days need to know that it takes time to confirm any leads, and this was helped with international experts.

Do you think that they can hide something after sharing raw military radar data, and not to mention other countries assisting the investigation by contributing theirs? You're nuts. SEA is full of corrupted officials but only if they can get away with it. How can you get away with this when everyone is watching, and helping?
 

Pochacco

asking dangerous questions
Your imaginations are getting the best of many of you guys.
Something fishy probably happened, but let's not get carried away here. The plane is probably still at the bottom of the ocean, unfortunately.
 

CREMSteve

Member
That's not at all what they said. And though they've extended the search area it's still in line with how far it could've gotten with 16 hours of fuel.

Definitely.

Does anyone have a link to them saying how much fuel it took off with? That would settle that pretty quickly.
 

CREMSteve

Member
no one is disputing this...?

It literally is a switch in the cockpit. It has to be turned off when the plane is on the ground or all sorts of unnecessary stuff shows up on the ground control's screens. At least, that's what I've read from people claiming to be pilots.
 

SmokeMaxX

Member
An Asia-based pilot of a Boeing 777-200, who asked not to be identified because he was not authorized to speak to reporters, said an ascent above the plane’s service limit of 43,100 feet, along with a depressurized cabin, could have rendered the passengers and crew unconscious, and could be a deliberate maneuver by a pilot or a hijacker.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/world/asia/malaysia-military-radar.html?smid=tw-bna&_r=0
It'd also absolutely demolish the amount of fuel they have left. Possible, but they'd have to land soon or they'd have to have filled up beforehand. I don't know how much fuel the plane had when it started the flight, but I read that at some airlines the pilots have control of how much fuel the planes get before each takeoff.

I believe a transponder would make it appear routine.
Each plane has a unique address (like a MAC address with computers). I believe that pilots can change some parts of their address, but not the unique identifier.
1. I don't get the difference between terrorist and hijacker

2. Reading that even 777 pilots don't know how to turn off transponders, is that right?

3. The level of sophistication required for this gives us two realistic conclusions, IMO. Military-trained terrorists or a rogue pilot.
Military trained terrorists would have to be trained in a 777 from what I understand. The evidence so far suggests that if the plane was for sure hijacked, whoever did it was extremely competent with that particular aircraft.

C4? With a 777 and a transponder they could fly a nuclear warhead right into New York and nobody would even know before it was too late.
Impossible. Just straight impossible. This isn't the 1980s, especially in a post-9/11 America.
 

aeroslash

Member
Transponders have an Off position on the cockpit, so yes, it can be switched off. But a transponder gives altitude, speed and the sqwack number to atc to recognize the plane, it doesn't mean that when it's turned off, radars won't detect the plane...

That's why i think it's impossible for the plane to have crossed countries without being noticed. A blip in a military radar without identification would be just minutes away of an interception with fighter jets, at least in Europe, and i'm sure in all the world it's more or less the same.

Anyone have a trancript of the Malasian's saying that it's not confirmed that the engines sent signals 4 or 5h later? Thx.
 

Ecotic

Member
Your imaginations are getting the best of many of you guys.
Something fishy probably happened, but let's not get carried away here. The plane is probably still at the bottom of the ocean, unfortunately.
It just sounds like too much planning and work for suicide, and a meaningless diversion for too many hours for terrorists to simply crash the plane into the ocean to kill everyone aboard. They could have just done that immediately after getting control of the plane (if that was their plan).
 

MThanded

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
The plane most likely crashed in the ocean. However, it may not have. Independent of the outcome, its probably important to know if this was an individual actor or test run for a larger organization. It is pretty crazy that its been a week at this point and we are still unsure if the plane crashed or not.
 

Jimrpg

Member
Given the information - I think the Malaysian Government know the plane has landed. The engine pings the satellite at takeoff, on the way up, somewhere in the middle and landing. 7+ hours into the flight means it either crashed or landed somewhere because it would run out of fuel.

I doubt you fly it 7 hours and then crash the thing.

So my guess is one of the two pilots is in on it. Also we can't ignore the fact the crew are in on it as well.

So if the pilot has landed how does he get out of the cockpit without being mobbed... he's got to have help (ground help maybe?)

Also given the two corridors - because deliberate action has now been confirmed, it would be more likely the pilot would land it in the countries in the northern corridor rather than just dump the plane out at sea.

This is just as crazy as 9/11.
 

MThanded

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
I'm assuming the 7 hour satellite ping is relevant here. If that plane contacted the satellites 7 hours after taking off then it was at least not at the bottom of the indian ocean at that point.
 

Jimrpg

Member
Transponders have an Off position on the cockpit, so yes, it can be switched off. But a transponder gives altitude, speed and the sqwack number to atc to recognize the plane, it doesn't mean that when it's turned off, radars won't detect the plane...

That's why i think it's impossible for the plane to have crossed countries without being noticed. A blip in a military radar without identification would be just minutes away of an interception with fighter jets, at least in Europe, and i'm sure in all the world it's more or less the same.

Anyone have a trancript of the Malasian's saying that it's not confirmed that the engines sent signals 4 or 5h later? Thx.

what about india/pakistan/afghanistan/khazhakstan, whats the security situation like?
 

WorldStar

Banned
It literally is a switch in the cockpit. It has to be turned off when the plane is on the ground or all sorts of unnecessary stuff shows up on the ground control's screens. At least, that's what I've read from people claiming to be pilots.

This isn't exactly correct. I was just agreeing that it takes a minimal amount of time to potentially disable. Far from saying all that was needed is that you hit a switch as you and the other bro describe.

WSJ: The first loss of the jet's transponder, which communicates the jet's position, speed and call sign to air traffic control radar, would require disabling a circuit breaker above and behind an overhead panel. Pilots rarely, if ever, need to access the circuit breakers, which are reserved for maintenance personnel.

more importantly, you and Icognito should take a moment to read this:

Expert Was Needed to Disable Malaysia Airlines Jet Systems
http://online.wsj.com/news/article_...4579439653701712312-lMyQjAxMTA0MDEwNDExNDQyWj
If multiple communication systems aboard Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 were manually disabled, as investigators increasingly suspect happened, it would have required detailed knowledge of the long-range Boeing Co. 777's inner workings.

The first loss of the jet's transponder, which communicates the jet's position, speed and call sign to air traffic control radar, would require disabling a circuit breaker above and behind an overhead panel. Pilots rarely, if ever, need to access the circuit breakers, which are reserved for maintenance personnel.

...

The shutdown of the on board reporting system shortly after the jet was last seen on radar, can be performed in a series of keystrokes on either of the cockpit's two flight management computers in the cockpit. The computers are used to set the performance of the engines on takeoff, plan the route, as well as other functions to guide the 777.

After vanishing, the jet's satellite communications system continued to ping orbiting satellites for at least five hours. The pings ceased at a point over the Indian Ocean, while the aircraft was at a normal cruise altitude, say two people familiar with the jet's last known position. Investigators are trying to understand that loss, and whether or not "something catastrophic happened or someone switched off" the satellite communication system, says one of the people.

A physical disconnection of the satellite communications system would require extremely detailed knowledge of the aircraft, its internal structure and its systems. The satellite data system is spread across the aircraft and disabling it would require physical access to key components. Disconnecting the satellite data system from the jet's central computer, known as AIMS, would disable its transmission. The central computer can be reached from inside the jet while it is flying, but its whereabouts would have to be known by someone deeply familiar with the 777.
 

All Hail C-Webb

Hailing from the Chill-Web
Definitely.

Does anyone have a link to them saying how much fuel it took off with? That would settle that pretty quickly.

6 hour flight. Planes usually have enough fuel to fly to fly to alternate airport + 30 minutes in a holdover. Captain is usually involved in the decision, could have got a little more, but I doubt more than 8 hours without flags being raised.
 

aeroslash

Member
Could anyone hack a transponder and impersonate another flight number or airline? That needs to be answered.

You don't have to hack anything. A transponder uses a sqwack number that atc assigns to identify the plane. If you set the code of another aircraft, atc would have two planes with the same number.
 

Vilifier

Neo Member
That is big news about the pinging continuing well into the flight. I know the speculation is that the pinging stopped because of a crash, but is it possible that if they landed the plane, the pinging would stop if they turned off all power/engines?
 

SmokeMaxX

Member
Yeah, I mean...it could have crashed as well. Recall that guy who crashed his plane in the US and it took a year to find it.
Crashing on land definitely makes it harder to find. In the water, debris will be floating everywhere. Assuming all the floating debris later sank or washed ashore in a remote area never to be seen again, then yes the ocean would be far harder to search.
Your imaginations are getting the best of many of you guys.
Something fishy probably happened, but let's not get carried away here. The plane is probably still at the bottom of the ocean, unfortunately.
I agree that the plane is probably at the bottom of the ocean unless every Asian country's border radar stations are straight up worthless. I imagine there are vessels in the water that have anti aircraft radars as well that should help identify the path the plane took.
16-17 hours of fuel. Enough for the original flight.
Really? Is that confirmed? I didn't know the original flight was supposed to take that long. I thought it was far less?
Could anyone hack a transponder and impersonate another flight number or airline? That needs to be answered.
I don't think this is realistically possible although I imagine it's technically possible.
Transponders have an Off position on the cockpit, so yes, it can be switched off. But a transponder gives altitude, speed and the sqwack number to atc to recognize the plane, it doesn't mean that when it's turned off, radars won't detect the plane...

That's why i think it's impossible for the plane to have crossed countries without being noticed. A blip in a military radar without identification would be just minutes away of an interception with fighter jets, at least in Europe, and i'm sure in all the world it's more or less the same.

Anyone have a trancript of the Malasian's saying that it's not confirmed that the engines sent signals 4 or 5h later? Thx.
I agree. That's why I also think it's in the water. Here's the thing though, didn't the plane turn off its transponders and fly right over Malaysia AND Thailand? How come neither of those guys noticed it? Or they were just like "oh, huge unidentifiable aircraft? Yeah that's cool, no need to do anything about it."
 

Sean*O

Member
The whole world needs to be on high alert right now, that's my feeling. If this plane was stolen and taken up to high altitude to surprise neutralize the occupants, I can only imagine the end game is another 9/11 but with a nuke onboard. Time to recode every transponder on every passenger airplane and lock shit down tight. This thing could be parked underground in Pakistan for all we know.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
The whole world needs to be on high alert right now, that's my feeling. If this plane was stolen and taken up to high altitude to surprise neutralize the occupants, I can only imagine the end game is another 9/11 but with a nuke onboard. Time to recode every transponder on every passenger airplane and lock shit down tight. This thing could be parked underground in Pakistan for all we know.

Whoa whoa buddy.
 

Zeus Molecules

illegal immigrants are stealing our air
The whole world needs to be on high alert right now, that's my feeling. If this plane was stolen and taken up to high altitude to surprise neutralize the occupants, I can only imagine the end game is another 9/11 but with a nuke onboard. Time to recode every transponder on every passenger airplane and lock shit down tight. This thing could be parked underground in Pakistan for all we know.

Yeah the smart move would be to change all codes immediately and look I to creating as quick a fix as possible.
 

crozier

Member
Wouldn't an unidentified aircraft be picked up by radar long before it gets to its destination?
It wouldn't be unidentified with a transponder. I think only military radars even bother looking for planes without transponders, though..which is why it disappeared from the airport's radar but remained visible on military when transponder was shut off.
 

kyoya

Member
You know how passenger cabins have on-screen maps of where the flight is going so that passengers could keep track? What if that was turned off with the pilot giving a bogus reason and passengers had no idea where they were headed? The passengers could have been oblivious of the trouble they were in for hours.
 

Lazyslob

Banned
Man some of you are really coming to some wacky ass conclusions. How long has this plane been missing? Days. You really think this thing has just been flying around without anyone knowing where? I just feel bad for the people on this plane.
 
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