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[liquidtmd]

If the goal was to create 'trouble for China', you'd think they'd kind of advertise and promote propoganda and confirmation.

Hijackers and Terrorists arent camera shy - they'd make their demands and agenda known. So unless it was a hijack and something went wrong forcing them to deny everything, I just dont see it. Or they're playing the long game and theres a phase 2 coming

 

[Adam Scott Aukerman]

I think I missed something in the past day. What is making people think that Muslims were behind this whole situation?

There was this on the last page, which is what reminded me of his comment. Not sure if there's been anything else:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...egations-resurface-in-case-of-lost-plane.html

Obviously nothing has been substantiated so far other than the belief that it was as a result of deliberate human intervention, and there are all sorts of possibilities still in play. But at the time of his comment an accident seemed far more likely.

Hijackers and Terrorists arent camera shy - they'd make their demands and agenda known. So unless it was a hijack and something went wrong forcing them to deny everything, I just dont see it.

Given that we've heard nothing (other than the dismissed claim from the Uighur separatists - which may still be accurate for all we know?), and that it's strongly believed that intervention has taken place, I think that it's far more likely that if a hijack has taken place, it was ultimately unsuccessful in reaching its planned outcome. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting your words, but you seem to be implying that a successful hijack is more likely than an unsuccessful one, and as we're yet to hear anything, any hijack attempt is unlikely - which doesn't really seem logical to me.

 

[Jimrpg]

https://twitter.com/rupertmurdoch/statuses/442680012630945792



This was 7 days ago before there any any evidence of anything.

Who knows.

He could have guessed or he could have some powerful friends on the inside that know things.

I don't know if people missed my post - but I posted this before

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1101&MainCatID=11&id=20140310000042

The Chinese Martyr Brigade claimed responsibility but officials dismissed it as a hoax. Could it be linked to the Kunming incident from a few weeks ago. Is this what Rupert Murdoch is talking about jihadists creating trouble for China?

The email also claims it wanted to respond to 'cruel Malaysian persecution'. Are they talking about Anwar?

7 days ago - people were more concerned about the two guys with stolen passports.

 

[Marvel]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...egations-resurface-in-case-of-lost-plane.html

That is... disturbing. However it's been a week, surely it would have been easier for a hijacker(s) to go straight ahead with the attack while the plane was in the air?

So potentially we have a plane that has been forced to land safely somewhere, just so that it may take off again to carry out an attack? if it hasn't just crashed into the sea of course, that is fucking terrifying if that is the case.

 

[Falk]

Malaysian Press Conference, 2014-03-16 17:30

- 25 countries now involved

- Police visited home of pilot, checked flight sim. Pilot and co-pilot didn't ask to fly together.

<A lot of reiterated stuff from yesterday's conference, I left out>

Q&A Local Media

- location of jet at 8:11 - (Malay answer) There were 6 pings total the last of which was at 8:11
- Fuel was 7 hours? did it land and refuel? - Jet was fuelled for flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing for flight time of 6 hours. We always have reserve fuel of 45min-1hour in case of diversion. Total fuel could have been up to 8 hours

- What moves to rectify security in response to situation? - Immediate focus is to find plane. There was no breach of SOP, this was an unprecedented case which may change aviation history across the world

- What leads from investigation? - 4 focus: Hijacking, sabotage, personal problem, psychological problem, includes ground staff.

- Status on background check on passengers? - Refocus due to information that equipment was deliberately turned off. This doesn't mean didn't check manifest beforehand. Investigation into offences of hijacking/sabotage/terrorism and aviation offences act. This means we are intensifying efforts.

- (Malay answer) same as above

- (Malay answer) As of right now I'm not sure of assets. But since yesterday we are discussing with everyone about how these assets will be allocated to northern and southern corridor. This needs very close coordination and we need some time to discuss this.

- comment if Malaysian Government knows SECRETS? - No. Lol.

- Are there any people on board with flight training? - Not received reply of background checks on ALL passengers. Some countries haven't responded. Some foreign intelligence agencies have cleared all passengers

- Is turnback pre-programmed? - Air turnback was not pre-determined

- (Malay answer) Clarification: <Seems he's saying "all passengers" cleared meaning all from the particular country related to specific intelligence agency?> Includes China and India clearing all passengers.

- Reports that Interpol was denied along with FBI - Not true, we worked with all agencies.

- Immediate financial assistance to families. Not looking at compensation till we know what happened to aircraft

Q&A International

- Reiterates, everyone being investigated

- Reiteration in English, SOP on fuel, no extra fuel

- Family moved out? - Personally not aware of this. No, nobody moved out (laughter)

- What was taken from pilot's home(s)? - Took possession of flight simulator and dismantled it (NOOOOOOOOO) and assembled at office. experts looking at it.

- Possible for aircraft to have been transmitting from the ground? - as long as electrical power to aircraft systems, yes

- No one has demanded ransom. Difficult to verify it as a hijack. This is why 4 areas are not being taken for granted

- Why did authorities wait 8 days to search pilot's stuff - Everyone was being investigated including pilot and co-pilot. In light of new dev, we went into their house. We didn't see the necessity in the earlier stage

- What is the altitude of the plane after it went missing. - We are talking to the service provider if the height of the plane can be verified due to calibration.

- 600 airstrips. Will you search them all? - We have identified two areas (talking about two corridors) All of it will be checked by maritime vessels and aircraft. Large tract of land involving 11 countries and deep sea. Will take coordination which was our effort yesterday

- Can't make any associations (e.g. political) at the moment

- Possibility of 9/11 style attack - Anyone can say anything. Our focus remains in those 4 areas. Security offenses special measures act is in effect

- Did you re-enact flight? - On a simulator, yes.

- Cargo on plane? - No hazardous goods

- Clarification - passengers cleared. What does that mean? Nothing negative. We cannot clarify on which intelligence agencies. Regarding Iranian false passport holders, nothing points to terrorist links

- was ACARS disabled before or after pilot said "All right, Good night" - Yes, it was disabled before

- Can southern area be searched? - Yes, we are still getting information of assets required to sweep the entire area. Getting expert advice at the moment. The support is overwhelming

- Can you confirm Malaysia requested military radar - Can confirm satellite data and radar request. We cannot divulge who agreed to military radar. Even Malaysian military data was sensitive. We cannot reveal it to media/public re: others

- The US team and UK team have time and coordinates. We narrowed it via checking minimum and maximum speed from the last point of contact. US and UK teams did their separate deduction and came to the same conclusion

END

FALKRANT (keyword for thread search, ignore)

 

[Mondy]

I'm not about to start congratulating Rupert Murdoch for his right wing semantics without evidence being possibly correct just remotely.

 

[liquidtmd]

"...was ACART disabled before or after pilot said "All right, Good night" - Yes, it was disabled before"

The implications of this are very interesting.

 

[Jintor]

- was ACART disabled before or after pilot said "All right, Good night" - Yes, it was disabled before

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Sean*O]

Thanks for the update Falk.

 

[Sean*O]

"...was ACART disabled before or after pilot said "All right, Good night" - Yes, it was disabled before"

The implications of this are very interesting.

Hence the let's rip apart the flight simulator.

 

[trinest]

"...was ACART disabled before or after pilot said "All right, Good night" - Yes, it was disabled before"

The implications of this are very interesting.

What is it in reference to anyway?

 

[Falk]

Personally it seems to me that while passengers are being cleared, focus is on pilot and co-pilot (nothing damning so far) but that still leaves cabin crew and possibly ground crew (ROBOTS, ANYONE?)

Also I think the fact that the pilot and co-pilot did not specifically ask to fly together is significant.

 

[Adam Scott Aukerman]

I'm not about to start congratulating Rupert Murdoch for his right wing semantics without evidence being possibly correct just remotely.

No one is congratulating that vile cunt for anything.

 

[jiggle]

Who said all right good night?
I'm getting goosebumps thinking it could be a fake sitting there saying that

 

[breakfuss]

weirder and weirder and weirder and weirder...just can't see how this could have been a crew member unless they were all coordinating, which of course is outlandish.

 

[Finaika]

- was ACART disabled before or after pilot said "All right, Good night" - Yes, it was disabled before

ermahgerd

 

[seanoff]

If it went south there is every possibility that Jindalee picked it up.

If it was on at the time.

Published range is 3000km. Might be much more than that.

So if it was on. The 3 AUS P3-Cs to 40 south might be in the area.

 

[Pandemic]

"...was ACART disabled before or after pilot said "All right, Good night" - Yes, it was disabled before"

The implications of this are very interesting.

Very interesting.. Doesn't that mean it should have raised an alarm with tower control, since the plane would've disappeared on their radar whilst still communicating with them?

 

[Jimrpg]

I think I missed something in the past day. What is making people think that Muslims were behind this whole situation?

I agree with what Falk said about Malaysian Muslims. He said it better than I could, I would find it highly surprising that Malaysian Muslims would be behind this, because you are unlikely to find any sort of radical Muslim behaviour. The majority are conservative and go about their daily lives peacefully. It's always been a safe country like Australia or Japan. The political situation is different though, its basically a one party system, though its been challenged in recent times by the rise of the opposition. There have been peaceful protests in Kuala Lumpur about having 'clean' (bersih) political election campaigns. Its been speculated in the past that the sitting government have used dirty tactics to win the election, such as allegedly buying votes with increased immigration into the country... i.e. approve X number of Bangladesh/Indonesian/Fillipino immigrants, pay them money for their vote etc. The opposition have been livid about that. Just last week, the opposition leader Anwar was supposed to contest the by-election at Kajang but he was sentenced to five years prison for sodomy (which many people thought the charges were dubious at best and you can google it up) and a dirty tactic the government used to win the election. If the pilot is a fanatical opposition supporter, then I can see the link, but even still its far fetched that he would pull off something like this on his fellow Malaysians.

Speaking of which, like others, normally I don't see an issue with the pilot have a pilot simulator at home. BUT it would coincide with how well planned the whole thing was and how flawlessly executed it was.

 

[Falk]

Very interesting.. Doesn't that mean it should have raised an alarm with tower control, since the plane would've disappeared on their radar whilst still communicating with them?

The transponder was shut off after that. ACARS is a different subsystem.

Who said all right good night?
I'm getting goosebumps thinking it could be a fake sitting there saying that

It says that's the last transmission from the cockpit. Doesn't say who it was.


edit: ACARS, not ACART. Sorry about that to everyone quoting my post and all the confusion that may ensue, it's 6:50AM at the moment

 

[Adam Scott Aukerman]

Also I think the fact that the pilot and co-pilot did not specifically ask to fly together is significant.

Definitely appears to be, although I wouldn't think it could yet be considered conclusive without knowing everything about the selection process and receiving statements from all those involved in it. It's possible that the selection could have been manipulated without a direct request.

 

[Pandemic]

The transponder was shut off after that. ACART is a different subsystem.

Would tower control be able to detect that ACART was disabled prior to the pilot/co-pilot signing off?

 

[Jimrpg]

Malaysian Press Conference, 2013-16-2014 1730

- Why did authorities wait 8 days to search pilot's stuff - Everyone was being investigated including pilot and co-pilot. In light of new dev, we went into their house. We didn't see the necessity in the earlier stage

(keyword for thread search, ignore)

WOW... SMH....

Wouldn't you (as an investigator) when you first hear about the pilot having a flight simulator check what routes are on his computer?

I'm sure a number of people have said this on the GAF alone.

Please send in more competent investigators PLEASE.

They seem to follow one lead at a time - can't they multi-task??

 

[Cereal KiIIer]

Would tower control be able to detect that ACART was disabled prior to the pilot/co-pilot signing off?

No. The signal doesn't go to them.

 

[Falk]

I'm thinking that the police were treading very carefully considering their sudden international spotlight. They were probably waiting for a 100% watertight warrant before going in.

Spoiler

Which is kinda ironic considering the other shit they pull

 

[breakfuss]

It's possible that the selection could have been manipulated without a direct request.

ahhh, very true. didn't consider that. otherwise i can't see one idly sitting by while the other took the plane on a joyride. Also, I wonder how aware of location the stewardesses are.

 

[pringles]

WOW... SMH....

Wouldn't you (as an investigator) when you first hear about the pilot having a flight simulator check what routes are on his computer?

I'm sure a number of people have said this on the GAF alone.

Please send in more competent investigators PLEASE.

They seem to follow one lead at a time - can't they multi-task??

Is breaking into someone's home because they have a flight simulator legal? I would think they'd need something more to get a warrant.

 

[seanoff]

Would tower control be able to detect that ACART was disabled prior to the pilot/co-pilot signing off?

No.

ATC have no reason, or the resources to monitor an aircrafts internal systems. ACARS reports on various parameters back to base for maintenance.

ATC only interested in the transponder.

 

[aeroslash]

Hence the let's rip apart the flight simulator.

why?

Very interesting.. Doesn't that mean it should have raised an alarm with tower control, since the plane would've disappeared on their radar whilst still communicating with them?

Many control towers doesn't have into acount the acars system. And the ones who do, wouldn't get a message when the system is offline, just when they would try to contact them via this system.
In any case it's no strange for an aircraft to have problems with the acars (mainly line problems), so it should not have triggered any warning in atc at all.

Would tower control be able to detect that ACART was disabled prior to the pilot/co-pilot signing off?

No.

 

[trinest]

I'm thinking that the police were treading very carefully considering their sudden international spotlight. They were probably waiting for a 100% watertight warrant before going in.

Spoiler

Which is kinda ironic considering the other shit they pull

Wouldn't surprise if they went in days ago when the rumors where flying around?

 

[Jimrpg]

Is breaking into someone's home because they have a flight simulator legal? I would think they'd need something more to get a warrant.

I don't know how it works, but in a national crisis, they should and probably could get a warrant in a jiffy. And even on day one they said they did not rule out the pilot going AWOL, so they should have more than enough reason to search his house.

 

[Adam Scott Aukerman]

Is breaking into someone's home because they have a flight simulator legal? I would think they'd need something more to get a warrant.

I would imagine they went into the home and then discovered the simulator, as opposed to going into his home because of the simulator. And I think, given the circumstances, it's a bit preposterous to suggest that there might not be legal justification for searching his home.

 

[Ensirius]

"...was ACART disabled before or after pilot said "All right, Good night" - Yes, it was disabled before"

The implications of this are very interesting.

This is going into the wtf realm of things.
I can see why they would go into the pilot's home and rip apart that simulator. If it contains information on where the plane might have gone they are perfectly able and obliged to do so.

I still think the plane is at the bottom of the ocean but a part of me also believes their is still a small chance everybody is alive.

 

[Phthisis]

Part if me (the cynical part) is a little wary of them having the simulator. With as much as we don't know about what happened, it's real easy for someone to put whatever they want on that machine to make it look like the pilot went rogue or was the cause of the incident (even if he wasn't) if they wanted.

Watching videos on his YT channel and getting some insight into his unfiltered personality, I find it really hard to believe he would be responsible for making a jet disappear like this, even for nefarious purposes.

Of course I am certainly no expert, so what do I know.

 

[Kenshin001]

I agree with what Falk said about Malaysian Muslims. He said it better than I could, I would find it highly surprising that Malaysian Muslims would be behind this, because you are unlikely to find any sort of radical Muslim behaviour. The majority are conservative and go about their daily lives peacefully. It's always been a safe country like Australia or Japan. The political situation is different though, its basically a one party system, though its been challenged in recent times by the rise of the opposition. There have been peaceful protests in Kuala Lumpur about having 'clean' (bersih) political election campaigns. Its been speculated in the past that the sitting government have used dirty tactics to win the election, such as allegedly buying votes with increased immigration into the country... i.e. approve X number of Bangladesh/Indonesian/Fillipino immigrants, pay them money for their vote etc. The opposition have been livid about that. Just last week, the opposition leader Anwar was supposed to contest the by-election at Kajang but he was sentenced to five years prison for sodomy (which many people thought the charges were dubious at best and you can google it up) and a dirty tactic the government used to win the election. If the pilot is a fanatical opposition supporter, then I can see the link, but even still its far fetched that he would pull off something like this on his fellow Malaysians.

Speaking of which, like others, normally I don't see an issue with the pilot have a pilot simulator at home. BUT it would coincide with how well planned the whole thing was and how flawlessly executed it was.

Weird. I just finished reading an article positing it could be a 9/11 plot by Malaysian Muslims.

Evidence of a plot by Malaysian Islamists to hijack a passenger jet in a terrorist attack copying 9/11 was being investigated in connection with the disappearance of Flight MH370.

 

[Trouble]

"...was ACART disabled before or after pilot said "All right, Good night" - Yes, it was disabled before"

The implications of this are very interesting.

Well that explains the whole "U.S. intelligence suspects 'those in the cockpit'" headline on CNN.

 

[Falk]

Weird. I just finished reading an article positing it could be a 9/11 plot by Malaysian Muslims.

Yes yes, that article was posted. Which is why arbok26 and I both spoke up about the issue.

The term Malaysian "Islamists" has a ludicrous ring to it for anyone who has an understanding of the culture and socioreligious landscape in the country. It literally makes the rest of an article read more like a clickbait scaremongering article than anything.

Obviously all possibilities have to be investigated. The way that article is phrased, on the other hand, casts the country in a light which is simply incorrect. And I daresay casts Islam and actual Islamist movement itself in a light that is incorrect.

"Islamists" as used by the article suggests a group who would have tracked down that coconut shaman and his family and summarily executed them with AK-47s for deviant beliefs. I believe the term they were looking for was "radical" or "extremist". This doesn't really inspire a lot of confidence in the rest of the reporting.

 

[raindoc]

Weird. I just finished reading an article positing it could be a 9/11 plot by Malaysian Muslims.

Asked if he helped them, he said: "I provided them with one of my shoes because both had been, uh, both had explosives inserted into them."

so this guy is running around a training camp wearing bombs on his feet and his plan to open a cockpit door involves a bomb smuggled on board in half a pair of worn shoes?

 

[Kenshin001]

so this guy is running around a training camp wearing bombs on his feet and his plan to open a cockpit door involves a bomb smuggled on board in half a pair of worn shoes?

Yeah, I guess like Richard Reid who tried to detonate explosives in his shoes on a flight to Miami.

 

[Falk]

Oh please, Richard Reid is so 2000s. Underwear bombing is more in style these days

 

[Adam Scott Aukerman]

Part if me (the cynical part) is a little wary of them having the simulator. With as much as we don't know about what happened, it's real easy for someone to put whatever they want on that machine to make it look like the pilot went rogue or was the cause of the incident (even if he wasn't) if they wanted.

It's very easy for someone to plant any sort of evidence, if they so desire. Doesn't mean they will get away with it, nor should we assume that they would.

 

[Raist]

So, the ACARS and transponder... I don't get, why can they be "switched off"? Are we talking agressive takedown or just flipping a switch? I would have thought there would be stuff locating/tracking a plane which can't be turned off in any way. Unless the whole system breaks down obviously.

 

[Oersted]

So, the ACARS and transponder... I don't get, why can they be "switched off"? Are we talking agressive takedown or just flipping a switch? I would have thought there would be stuff locating/tracking a plane which can't be turned off in any way. Unless the whole system breaks down obviously.

Yep.

 

[Totakeke]

So US and UK independently calculated the trajectory of the north and south corridors while concluding the same making little doubt that those are the best areas to search... while at the same time making China seem quite helpless in all this.

Man, I can only think that the truth will be stranger than fiction if this case ever gets resolved. Those are some crazy flight paths.

 

[Beautifully Shaped Monsters]

I would imagine they went into the home and then discovered the simulator, as opposed to going into his home because of the simulator. And I think, given the circumstances, it's a bit preposterous to suggest that there might not be legal justification for searching his home.

Well, unless they don't follow anything at all. It has been public knowledge that the pilot had a very capable flight sim setup since one of the first days. The pilot was talking about how excited he was about it on a flight sim forum, including showing pictures (which I believe have already been posted in this thread.

 

[seanoff]

So, the ACARS and transponder... I don't get, why can they be "switched off"? Are we talking agressive takedown or just flipping a switch? I would have thought there would be stuff locating/tracking a plane which can't be turned off in any way. Unless the whole system breaks down obviously.

Primary radar will track a 777 easily, an unidentified large contact was ignored by the malay military.

Transponders can be turned off with the same simplicity as a light switch.

 

[Raist]

Yep.

Seriously? In which "normal" circumstances would a pilot want his plane to basically become invisible? Maybe I'm missing something, but it makes no sense to have a "switch off" option for these things.

Primary radar will track a 777 easily, an unidentified large contact was ignored by the malay military.

Transponders can be turned off with the same simplicity as a light switch.

Fair enough, but primary radars don't cover the whole airspace. I juts don't get why important communication systems should be turned off that easily.

 

[McNum]

Seriously? In which "normal" circumstances would a pilot want his plane to basically become invisible? Maybe I'm missing something, but it makes no sense to have a "switch off" option for these things.

When the plane is on the ground, powered on, but not intending to fly any time soon. A plane only needs to broadcast who it is when it's flying or preparing to fly. Otherwise ATC would have a lot of useless data from planes on the ground to sort through.

 

[Falk]

I'm hoping that at least one more lead turns up as to the plane's whereabouts around the last few hours of its flight. Literally one other satellite ping or detection of some sort by anyone's radar will instantly reduce the possibilities to two intersecting points along the 8:11 circumference, or better yet, eliminate one of the two corridors completely.

Let's hope that that information is just taking time to change hands, rather than being nonexistent.

 

[Guileless]

The man who actually constructed the bombs that Jemaah Islamiah used in the Bali attacks was Malaysian.