DF: Doom: The Dark Ages "Forced RT" Backlash - Is It Actually Justified?

Who cares? Play video games and have fun. This is just the usual daily reminder of why I maintain that gamers have ruined gaming. Imagine caring what people think about lighting and reflections in games that already look amazing as is. This is the segment of the community at large that is embarrassing. Bring on the hate.

On Fire GIF by DefyTV
 
Super Lemon Drop said:
Who cares? Play video games and have fun. This is just the usual daily reminder of why I maintain that gamers have ruined gaming. Imagine caring what people think about lighting and reflections in games that already look amazing as is. This is the segment of the community at large that is embarrassing. Bring on the hate.

On Fire GIF by DefyTV
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+1
 
I'm just fascinated by how, despite forced RT, the game runs insanely smooth on my 4070 while oblivion still fucking dips into the single digits at times

The duality of bethesda
 
First NV RT GPUs - 2018, 7 years ago
First AMD RT GPUs - 2020, 5 years ago
First consoles with RT - 2020, 5 years ago

In early 200x games required new hardware DX support every year, it's fucking enough time to require RT at this point...
 
I dislike forced RT cause it always should be an option. While I have the hardware for it, not everybody does.

PC gaming was always known for the customisation of the settings to cater to your liking. Don't force shit on anybody
 
SolidQ said:
still early. Only with PS6 gen need start.
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No, I'm surprised it took this long. For 5 years now, every new GPU series supports RT, even low end parts.

Bitstream said:
I heard the PS6 isn't much more powerful than the PS5, just more effecient
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What about stability?

Hideous Snake said:
I dislike forced RT cause it always should be an option. While I have the hardware for it, not everybody does.

PC gaming was always known for the customisation of the settings to cater to your liking. Don't force shit on anybody
Click to expand...

Meanwhile PC gaming xx years ago:

YG6lEWC.jpeg


And games required pixel shaders to run very early, not years after...
 
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Codes 208 said:
I'm just fascinated by how, despite forced RT, the game runs insanely smooth on my 4070 while oblivion still fucking dips into the single digits at times

The duality of bethesda
Click to expand...
Yeah, from what i know Oblivion has an annoying memory leak bug, that sucks big times. Doom on the other hand...chefs kiss.
200w.gif
 
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Super Lemon Drop said:
Who cares? Play video games and have fun. This is just the usual daily reminder of why I maintain that gamers have ruined gaming. Imagine caring what people think about lighting and reflections in games that already look amazing as is. This is the segment of the community at large that is embarrassing. Bring on the hate.

On Fire GIF by DefyTV
Click to expand...
Half these people aren't even gamers. They're hobbyists with OCD levels of nitpicking with tech datasheet crunching.
 
Hideous Snake said:
I dislike forced RT cause it always should be an option. While I have the hardware for it, not everybody does.

PC gaming was always known for the customisation of the settings to cater to your liking. Don't force shit on anybody
Click to expand...
If anything, the long period of stagnant console ports and cheap hardware that lasted for generations was the anomaly. The gpu I bought to play half life 2 could barely run battlefield 2
 
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I'm actually most impressed that after all this talk of forced RT, hardware requirements, etc, the new doom just looks ok.
Makes sense from a dev's perspective though. They probably did the math and concluded that the amount of time it takes to backport traditional lighting isn't worth the PC sales for people that don't have RT cards
 
Bojji said:
o, I'm surprised it took this long. For 5 years now, every new GPU series supports RT, even low end parts.
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yeah, but still hard for low end parts. Ubisoft made it smart add software RT and problem solved, same ID can do, for improve sales.
 
A few games are requiring really light weight implementations. Not so bad. Some people are going to be left out which sucks, sure.

_______

Fuck I need to look into these oblivion issues. I am doing some hardware upgrades and I was thinking that would be a good first game to crush. But if the PC version is a pain in the ass with crashes and bugs, I might just settle for the PS5 version while my sweet new shit plays youtube.
 
Bojji said:
You can have lighting in the game or not. You want option like that?
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Nobody talked about a crucial part of a game being an option or not LMAO

We already have an option for the quality of lighting btw. NOBODY said remove CRUCIAL elements from a game
 
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Damn, and here I am enjoying the shit out of the game and thinking this looks dope as fuck even on console while running at the pace and solid performance that it does.
 
Hideous Snake said:
Nobody talked about a crucial part of a game being an option or not LMAO

We already have an option for the quality of lighting btw. NOBODY said remove CRUCIAL elements from a game
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Unlike Control that forgot how to rasterize cubes/SSR and complete blank textures so they can sell ya on RT.

That was a real lazy way of going about it.

Insomniac and others handle it better by still rasterizing for those who choose not to use RT, instead of low-effort 20+ year old placeholder looking junk.
 
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The problem is the "forced" part. All that id had to do was to give the user an option to turn in on/off. Just like all other games.

And the question is not about we having RT hardware for 7 years already. The problem is that RT causes huge performance drops.
For example, Doom Eternal on a 4080 can 175 fps, at native 4K.
But the 4080 on Doom the Dark Ages, it can only do 51 fps.
Losing 3.5 times the performance for marginal gains in image quality is not a good trade off.
But if the option was there to turn it on/off, there would be no problem, as each person could choose what they wanted.
And this is the crux of the matter, choice.

doom-eternal-3840-2160.png


performance-3840-2160.png
 
When devs start to lost their jobs, this will change fast and all this shit this imbecile wants to pass will be gone
 
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Hideous Snake said:
I dislike forced RT cause it always should be an option. While I have the hardware for it, not everybody does.

PC gaming was always known for the customisation of the settings to cater to your liking. Don't force shit on anybody
Click to expand...
should be an option?
Should textures filtering also be an option? I mean... not everyone got 3dfx card and forward.
Should tnl lighting and shaders be an option?

dude. rt cards are like 7 years old. Normally, a 2 years old gpu would be trash. We are lucky stuff dont age anymore anyway
 
Hideous Snake said:
Nobody talked about a crucial part of a game being an option or not LMAO

We already have an option for the quality of lighting btw. NOBODY said remove CRUCIAL elements from a game
Click to expand...

They didn't take months to bake lighting in this game. So yeah option would be: on/off.

Quality scaling works within RTGI.

GTA6 most likely will be RT requiring game, everything is made with RTGI in mind. I doubt they will take months or years to bake lighting in this game to support GPUs released more than 10 years after release date of PC version... But who knows.
 
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winjer said:
The problem is the "forced" part. All that id had to do was to give the user an option to turn in on/off. Just like all other games.
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That is problem.
Vega 56/64, RX 5700XT(PS5 perf without RT), GTX 1070/ti/1080/ti users is worse than rtx 2060/3050/2070? No
 
rofif said:
should be an option?
Should textures filtering also be an option? I mean... not everyone got 3dfx card and forward.
Should tnl lighting and shaders be an option?

dude. rt cards are like 7 years old. Normally, a 2 years old gpu would be trash. We are lucky stuff dont age anymore anyway
Click to expand...
Bojji said:
They didn't take months to bake lighting in this game. So yeah option would be: on/off.

Quality scaling works within RTGI.
Click to expand...
You lot are really stretching it when my point is very clear. Do not force anything, why is it so hard to understand?

You assume the majority of PC gamers have the rigs that can run everything comfortably? Even if they have a decent rig, not all are willing to sacrifice performance. Where's the issue exactly in having RT as an option?
 
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Hideous Snake said:
You lot are really stretching it when my point is very clear. Do not force anything, why is it so hard to understand?

You assume the majority of PC gamers have the rigs that can run everything comfortably? Even if they have a decent rig, not all are willing to sacrifice performance. Where's the issue exactly in having RT as an option exactly?
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You can't have "RT off" option when game doesn't have any lighting system that works without RT.
 
I'm not a fan of the whole "stop being poor" thing, but I can't imagine someone interested in playing modern games not having a GPU from the last 6 or so years. Do recent releases run well or something like 1060 even without RT? I replaced mine 2 years ago because it just wouldn't cut it on anything remotely modern and I imagine new games are even more demanding.
 
Super Lemon Drop said:
Who cares? Play video games and have fun. This is just the usual daily reminder of why I maintain that gamers have ruined gaming. Imagine caring what people think about lighting and reflections in games that already look amazing as is. This is the segment of the community at large that is embarrassing. Bring on the hate.

On Fire GIF by DefyTV
Click to expand...
Exactly.

RT is overrated anyways. Maybe I'll add RT obsessed people to my vegans of gaming list.

it's the same with platform warring. Why does it matter where people play games? It doesn't. People should play games where they want to and nobody is superior because they choose one over the other.
 
Probably complaints are more because the game looks basically the same as Doom 2016 and Eternal, but require a tons more powerful hardware. That's why is difficult to be sold on this technology right now.
 
Dark Ages suffers from the combo of the muted presentation devalues the fidelity jump it does make over previous games, and graphic improvement has also hit general diminished return.

Lastly, throw in that GPUs are more expensive, and you'll have some people who get left behind because they didn't want to get a RT card, or got the earlier AMD cards that have terrible RT performance.

Given the rising costs for many things now, more games will have to probably accommodate more people's weaker setups if they wanna maximize sales.
 
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