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Mario & Luigi: Dream Team |OT| Us North Americans Don't Have Bros

The tutorials are a persistent problem, on one hand you could trumpet that the game is constantly introducing something new (or an old idea from a previous game) which is great but every single time something new turns up you grind to a halt having the new mechanic over-explained to the point the game often tests your ability to take a few steps to the left and right in your slightly altered new form or something else unnecessary, i'm beginning to dread characters opening their mouths.
Upon gaining a new skill one of your two assist characters (yes, we need two of these now) will often spoil even the simplest of solutions involving it before you can even take control, increasingly painful when it uses old mechanics dating back to Superstar Saga.

Two moments in particular stick out to me...
*very minor spoilers I guess*
The first is when upon reaching a dream rock that clearly would have to be smashed with a hammer since you clearly couldn't strike it from below by jumping the ever pestering prince quickly jumped out to tell me that i'd need to use the hammer to hit that rock after i'd spent the last few hours hammering rocks anyway, well cheers, never would've figured that one out without your help.
And the other about eight hours in when walking into a badge shop I was "rewarded" with a forced tutorial explaining the badge mechanics introduced hours ago just in case i'd forgot I presume, and when I say rewarded I mean it was actually presented as such, maybe that was the joke?

I feel almost villainous in this thread, i've yet to make one really positive post, this may give off the impression that i'm not enjoying myself, I should point out I am. The game has some clever ideas, I love the environment visuals, it's got the strongest music in the series, the core gameplay is as good as ever with the dream battle twists helping the formula remain fresh but the interruptions, some overly long areas fighting the same few enemies over and over (i'm looking at you mountain!) and an increasing feeling of familiarity are kind of clashing with the good side.
Well it's better than Partners in Time so far I can say that much and if you really enjoyed Bowser's Inside Story it certainly seems to lean more in that direction.
 

afoni

Banned
I'm 20 hours in and the tutorials are still there. The only challenging part of the game so far are a tiny number of bosses with awful tells.

What game are you people PLAYING.

Edit: Yes, the mountain dragged on way too long. I was getting sick of those enemies.
 

Doopliss

Member
There's a Luiginary work without a tutorial which I encountered after 28 hours play time! (I think most people will be there several hours sooner, unless you've spent a lot of time on side-stuff like I have.)
 

rekameohs

Banned
It's been awhile since I played it but wasn't Bowser's Inside Story the same way with tutorials?

Yeah, definitely. Are Dream Team's tutorials about as common as BIS's? If so, I'm fine with that; that game's tutorials never got too grating to me. I wouldn't like much more, though.
 
What the!? This is already out? I haven't heard anything about it since it was announced :s

How do you guys like it? Better or Worse than BIS?
 

Ath

Member
The tutorials do feel more intrusive in this game for some reason. Occasionally it will fall into the trap of giving you another line of dialogue when you select "No" that says "Are you really sure?!". The other annoying type is when you select "No" and then it proceeds to give you a condensed one anyway ('Oh OK, so you know that you have to press "A" to "Jump" and "Left" to move "left", you're so smart Mario!').

I had a quick replay of the beginning of Bowser's Inside Story last month, the tutorials were there but they didn't get on my nerves for some reason. Having said that, that's probably why I'm being annoyed by the Dream Team ones since I just relived the BIS ones!

The handholding does detract a little bit and I wish it wasn't so excessive, but I'm still having a blast playing anyway.
 

Robin64

Member
It actually goes beyond tutorials, too.

Case in point: early on, you watch a scene where some objects are blown around which causes your path to be blocked. One of your helpers then pops out to tell you exactly what just happened, just in case you didn't see it for yourself.

Upon getting the objects back, that same helper pops out to tell that, yes, you have indeed just got the objects back and you should return them.

It's SO annoying, it feels like I'm being treated as an absolute moron.

How do you guys like it? Better or Worse than BIS?

Right now, I would rank it as BIS > SS > DT > PiT
 

Joqu

Member
Yeah; the other games were just as bad with the tutorials. This doesn't excuse it of course, but I'm surprised with the amount of complaints it has been getting this time though. I don't recall it being like that with BiS.

BiS did sell pretty well come to think of it. Is that the reason?

I have personally never minded the tutorials myself, they are amusing enough to not annoy me too much. Still, it wouldn't hurt if AlphaDream hears us this time.


What the!? This is already out? I haven't heard anything about it since it was announced :s

How do you guys like it? Better or Worse than BIS?

Well I'm really loving the game so far. I'm not sure where I'd rank it, but what I have played is definitely in the BiS / SS league. I'm only a few hours in tho.
 

El Odio

Banned
Sucks to hear about all this tutorial crap hampering the experience. I was hoping it wouldn't be any worse than BiS but I guess was wrong there. Oh well, it sounds like its still fun anyway and I'll probably enjoy it when I pick it up next month.
 

TrueBlue

Member
To be honest, the tutorials themselves are usually quite amusing, so I'm fine with them. Plus, the text speed is pretty fast so it's easy to blast through most of them.

I'd also argue that the tutorials are there for younger fans/first-timers so I can tolerate them. Would be best if they were optional though.

No one should let it detract too much from the experience though, having a great time thus far.
 
Well, truly the only bad thing about the game are the tutorials. Even after 18 hours they are still there. The first Luigiusion object which is not explained arrived after 21 hours for me *laughs*
 

eXistor

Member
For me, the best way to handle tutorials would be a seperate tutorial area that you can do when first starting a new game. You could skip it if you wanted, but even players that know the mechanics would want to play it because it's an exclusive area not found in the rest of the game.

Imagine a Zelda game that did this: everyone would want to play it at least once, but it would not be detriment to the main game because it's optional. Replays would also benefit greatly from this.

What the!? This is already out? I haven't heard anything about it since it was announced :s

How do you guys like it? Better or Worse than BIS?

So far SS>BiS>DTB>>>>PiT (though I really have to replay SS as my memory is vague)
 
Too much Mario & Luigi hate in this thread. Sure tutorials are horrible but you're making the game to look like crap when it is an amazing installment and a 3DS must have. By the way I'm five hours in and now the teaching parts are quite relaxed and are limited to a 20 second dialogue once a while. Not the drama you are painting on. And they don't spoil puzles (they only explain the basic mechanism of the area) or anything like that, please.This reminds me to people complaining about E.Gadd interrupting the action in Luigi's Mansion 2 which was an absolute exageration.

I wasn't too convinced about Dream Team at first because the beggining is for sure boring and slow, but once you get to the first main area (the park) the bomb explodes and the game becomes just amazing. I'm finding the dreamworld sections very clever too, and the overworld feels like a huge improvement from the DS installments because now they are bigger than ever and there are lots of stuff to do, a huge amount of secrets to find and some litte puzles to solve. You have to add to that ecuation the amazing music, outstanding graphics, hilarius dialogues and incredible battles.

It surely guides the player too much, more than I would like, but you're exagerating a lot about this and anyway it is a really minor issue compared to all the other experiences the game offers. And the comparison with Skyward Sword is just ridiculous. That Zelda had a better implementation of tutorials in the game than this M&L (mostly because all the explanations were concentrated at the beggining in Skyloft) but Fi is way more annoying (and BORING) during the adventure than any of the interruptions in Dream Team (and she actually ruined some puzles indeed).
 

Robin64

Member
Too much Mario & Luigi hate in this thread.

Nobody here is hating it. The gameplay and humour are as superb as always, the game is an absolutely charming little number. We just don't need to be told how possess a Luiginary object every time we see one.
 

FryHole

Member
The dreamworld battle music reminds me somewhat of Snobow Kids.

In related news, I would buy the shit out of a 3DS Snobow Kids.
 

afoni

Banned
27 hours in, I'm getting sick of the giant boss fights now. They're just not all that fun and the motion controlled parts are just a pain in the arse.

I bet there will be more just to piss me off.
 

S1kkZ

Member
i need some help with one of the dream/brother attacks SPOILERS (18 hours in)
i just got the hammer dream attack and i simply cant get it to work. tried it over 20 times yesterday and almost threw my 3ds against the wall...
you hold B, the luigis jump on mario to form the hammer and you have to balance them out with the slide pad until the hammer is complete. got it. bt no matter what i do, the luigis collapse. any tips?
 
For that attack
mash the b button to throw in Luigis, when the hammer tilts one way head in the same direction it sways in, so if it goes back you go back, when it tilts forward then go forward, you should get into a groove of going backwards and forwards like a pendulum, just don't go past the white lines on either side, you have to continue hitting b during this until the hammer is complete.
Once it clicks you should have it down for every attempt.
 

afoni

Banned
i need some help with one of the dream/brother attacks SPOILERS (18 hours in)
i just got the hammer dream attack and i simply cant get it to work. tried it over 20 times yesterday and almost threw my 3ds against the wall...
you hold B, the luigis jump on mario to form the hammer and you have to balance them out with the slide pad until the hammer is complete. got it. bt no matter what i do, the luigis collapse. any tips?

You have to tap B and run in the direction that the hammer is tipping. You usually end up running back and forth on the spot instinctively once you've got it down to an art. It's really easy once you get the hang of it, just practice it from the menus. I had trouble at first, so don't feel like you're the only one.
 

S1kkZ

Member
thank guys, finally got it. mus be something wrong with the german translation, it was explained really poorly (and wrong) in the tutorial.
 

ramyeon

Member
I am well and truly stuck on the Dozing Sands segment, after being able to operate the big drilling machine. I've broken every rock, explored every path open to me right now but can't find the last 2 gatekeepers for the life of me. There's 2 weird paths, one with petrified cacti or something blocking me and the other at a switchboard going left that I can't go onto.
 

afoni

Banned
I am well and truly stuck on the Dozing Sands segment, after being able to operate the big drilling machine. I've broken every rock, explored every path open to me right now but can't find the last 2 gatekeepers for the life of me. There's 2 weird paths, one with petrified cacti or something blocking me and the other at a switchboard going left that I can't go onto.

I won't tell you what to do, but I will tell you to ignore the petrified cacti.
 
I am well and truly stuck on the Dozing Sands segment, after being able to operate the big drilling machine. I've broken every rock, explored every path open to me right now but can't find the last 2 gatekeepers for the life of me. There's 2 weird paths, one with petrified cacti or something blocking me and the other at a switchboard going left that I can't go onto.

there's a section of track that looks like its broke, you can go along and it will jump over it
 

ramyeon

Member
there's a section of track that looks like its broke, you can go along and it will jump over it
Weird, I've done that a few times and it hasn't. I'll try again though, thanks.

Yeah, going over that piece of broken track doesn't make the machine jump at all for me :/

Edit: Totally missed talking to the one guy who explained what to do. Wow don't I feel silly now haha.
 
Weird, I've done that a few times and it hasn't. I'll try again though, thanks.

Yeah, going over that piece of broken track doesn't make the machine jump at all for me :/

Did you flip over the red pad that super charges the driller's speed?

Edit: The amount of people I have seen getting partially stuck on this game is quite amusing XD, let's see if its me next =P
 
Holy shit at the soundtrack, art direction and 3D effect. They nailed the presentation in this game.
Tutorials weren't that bad, since I skipped most of them. But still slightly annoying.
 

Kensuke

Member
It's not just the tutorials that are annoying though. The game is very linear and likes to spell everything out for you just in case you didn't understand what happened. It's come to the point where I dread the introduction of a new mechanic, knowing it's going to be over-explained. It sometimes kills the pacing.

I don't remember BIS doing this much handholding. It definitely feels like AlphaDream made a M&L for a new generation of players that haven't experienced the franchise before. I wish they would've made a hard-mode that's accessible from the beginning and skips all tutorials.

It's not all bad though, I like the dream worlds. I love the 3D-effect on those as well. The battle system also feels deeper than ever. Hopefully it gets better (8 hours in).
 
I've just encountered a new dream world mechanic that I got to figure out for myself, I almost want to cry tears of joy at this genuinely shocking turn of events.
 
I've just encountered a new dream world mechanic that I got to figure out for myself, I almost want to cry tears of joy at this genuinely shocking turn of events.

Look at you owl, learning things without the game telling you. And only after 20 hours!

*sniff* they grow up so fast
 

Oxx

Member
I've played the first 15 minutes but I think I'm too tired to deal with all the small-talk.

I'll try again tomorrow when I'm more refreshed.
 

HuntTheMusic

Neo Member
Love the presentation and vibe of this. The 3D is really great and there are some really excellent and colourful little twists. Some areas use the old virtual boy depth of field tricks first seen in Wario which I really appreciated.

But.....

Those tutorials are absolutely doing my head in and they are endless about 5 hours in.
 
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