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Mario & Luigi: Dream Team |OT| Us North Americans Don't Have Bros
- Thread starter DaBoss
- Start date
Does Nintendo typically do that for their first-party games? If so, I think you can expect them to do a midnight launch.
Lord Ghirahim
Member
They've done it several times. I can't find any confirmation for this game though. It's midnight in about 100 minutes, I'll check then.
They did it for a few of them afaik.
Lord Ghirahim
Member
It's up for Japan now.
So be it. I'm just glad I get to thoroughly enjoy more games than most people here
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
I'm stuck.
Vivalaraza
Member
Edit - Nvm figured it out.
Spieler Eins
Member
Fuck Mario Sunshine. This right here is the game that nails vacation mood.
I didn't even know it would go in that direction.
I didn't even know it would go in that direction.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
I'm stuck exactly where you were.
jesusraz
Member
Spot on - I agree totally with that order. I know many people that really don't, though, but hey, that's part of the fun
glaringradio
Member
What the hell do I do with the
???
I'm getting that this is obviously the start of some sort of
in the game, but I'm like 20 hours in and I still haven't come across where it needs to be used...
Zeekeeper Plush
I'm getting that this is obviously the start of some sort of
trading sequence
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Nocturnowl
Member
Good news for people who like long games, this is easily the longest M&L game so far, bad news for people like me who felt the previous games were just long enough bordering on becoming too repetitive, this game is wearing me down.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Stick with it Owl, we're all looking forward to your long-winded post about it not being as good as Superstar Saga but it's a good game anyway
and then, inevitably, my long-winded post about it not being as good as Bowser's Inside Story but it being a good game anyway
and then, inevitably, my long-winded post about it not being as good as Bowser's Inside Story but it being a good game anyway
Nocturnowl
Member
You think you've got me all figured out JC? because you totally have, i'm not even sure I need a long winded post now that my feelings on the title have been basically summarized into a single sentence.
But you'll get one anyway, estimated to arrive some point tomorrow as truly now I must be nearing the end.
But you'll get one anyway, estimated to arrive some point tomorrow as truly now I must be nearing the end.
Preach!
So be it. I'm just glad I get to thoroughly enjoy more games than most people here
Haha I sometimes think that myself tbh. I'll play a game, think it's great, then come on gaf and see heaps of negativity. I have to actively avoid threads of games I like sometimes for fear my experience will be tainted (though I've usually got a pretty thick barrier towards that happening).
Absolutely loving this game so far. Just beat the second Giant Boss and it controlled pretty well for me, which was surprising because the Giant Boss battles in BiS were almost unplayable for me.
Speaking of BiS, I'm really surprised how much I'm loving Dream Team because I really disliked BiS (couldn't even finish it), yet this game is very similar in structure.
Speaking of BiS, I'm really surprised how much I'm loving Dream Team because I really disliked BiS (couldn't even finish it), yet this game is very similar in structure.
Nocturnowl
Member
After finally toiling to the final boss with me desperate for this all to finally be over as I haven't really enjoyed the last 10 or so hours much at all and on top of that some of the games most gimmicky control moments being recently endured the game decided it would give me one more marvellous reason to lose points.
Simply put after what feels like 20 minutes of pure final boss annoyance I finally got the opening to land some damn good bros attacks in, pulling one off with such impact that the game simply stopped in its tracks, oh yeah, I finally did it, that's why my move suddenly ended half way through right?
....oh wait, nope, false alarm the game has only gone and frozen, quite literally the first time any 3DS game has crashed on me and with such wonderful timing, there was no anger here, just a blank expression, maybe the game was trying to save me from myself.
So safe to say that the game is not in my good graces right now at all.
Simply put after what feels like 20 minutes of pure final boss annoyance I finally got the opening to land some damn good bros attacks in, pulling one off with such impact that the game simply stopped in its tracks, oh yeah, I finally did it, that's why my move suddenly ended half way through right?
....oh wait, nope, false alarm the game has only gone and frozen, quite literally the first time any 3DS game has crashed on me and with such wonderful timing, there was no anger here, just a blank expression, maybe the game was trying to save me from myself.
So safe to say that the game is not in my good graces right now at all.
Happened to me too. Was it during a Bye Bye Cannon?
Nocturnowl
Member
It actually was, I was ready to begin phase 2 of the move and then it locked up.
Great, now i'm going to fear the use of that move when I return.
Exactly the same moment it went for me then. At least we know it's caused by the Bye Bye Cannon specifically though. As for the boss itself, I quite liked it, but that might be in contrast to some of the bullshit before it.
kobashi100
Banned
any tips on winning these battles in wakeport against the beef bro's.
I am failing on all challenges.
I am failing on all challenges.
Practice.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Note to self: do not use Bye Bye Cannon on final boss
Okay, I need some help with the location of the Dozing Sands
.
It might be behind the high wall at the far right, but if it's somewhere in the already explored area, I have no idea where it is. I'm currently at
But aside from that, AWESOME game. It's lengthy, funny, plenty of side content and has just the right amount of challenge throughout.
Bye Bye Cannon sucks though. I think the cannon noise puts me off memorising them correctly.
EDIT: Was there a tutorial for the
?
Camera Block
It might be behind the high wall at the far right, but if it's somewhere in the already explored area, I have no idea where it is. I'm currently at
Mt Pajamaja again for the Ultibed Frame.
But aside from that, AWESOME game. It's lengthy, funny, plenty of side content and has just the right amount of challenge throughout.
Bye Bye Cannon sucks though. I think the cannon noise puts me off memorising them correctly.
EDIT: Was there a tutorial for the
Gravity Luiginary work
There's a reason we're using that and not any of the others.
Nocturnowl
Member
*final boss spoilers in this post*
Through the power of knowing what to expect I just beat the boss in like 5 minutes, which makes me wonder how many times I must've been on the precipice of victory last time before
Bowser kept stuffing his face, i'm not sure entirely what truly triggers his heading off into the background routine aside from perhaps low health or lacking both arms but he just kept doing it on my first run leading to a tug of war style punch up
So the final boss is alright I guess, better than the one before it at least which had quite possibly the most annoying boss attack in the entire series,
that infinite nightmare bit is pretty damn awful when you haven't figured out how to escape, they even found a way to throw in the gyro for that extra annoyance.
Against all odds I used it again and again without freezing, it's like an exciting gamble with your sanity on the line!
I'll try and present my thoughts on the whole thing in a more rational manor later (since right now i'm basically burnt out on simply finishing the thing), I'm just going to say for now that while the core of the game is as solid as ever it has a ton of small issues that join together to really kill my enjoyment of the whole thing.
I'm in the last room before the final boss. My play time is... 59:44! I still have a bit more to do in this room so I'm not quite ready to fight yet, but I just dug up the last buried bean in the game and completed the last expert challenge, the reward for which is quite awesomely overpowered,
Overall I think my Bros. are pretty tough dudes so I'm thinking of taking off my best weapons for my first attempt at the boss, just to make sure I don't blast through it too quickly.
Other stuff I've done in my playthrough:
-- Saved every Pi'illo. The reward is pretty cool,
-- S-ranked every
mini-game. A couple of these were frustrating (
) but mostly I found them to be a fun challenge. My favourites were
. The latter initially seemed impossible but I could feel the small improvement I made with each attempt and when I finally completed it it was super satisfying!
-- Pieced together every
. This one was kinda pointless, but at least you get
I didn't do the mini-game in the
area. I was put off because it appeared that it would rely a lot on trial and error and pattern memorisation to get a high score. Now I've made this post though I'm quite tempted to go back and give it a go.
although you'll be be missing out on some other great stuff in that slot if you equip it.
Other stuff I've done in my playthrough:
-- Saved every Pi'illo. The reward is pretty cool,
I mean who wouldn't want an extra attack? But it's a shame that it's one of the more mundane ones to perform. It would've been cooler if they'd gone all-out crazy with it, made it take three minutes to Excellent it with five different stages or something.
special attack
shell kicking I felt was too unforgiving and luigi stacking had some dodgy collision
dropchopper, luigi fire bouncing, luigi breakout and bomb derby
-- Pieced together every
jigsaw puzzle
some cool art to look at!
I didn't do the mini-game in the
beach
Nocturnowl
Member
Time to fulfil the prophecy.
*light spoilers within, mainly a few enemy types and attacks*
Back in the days of the GBA there was one game on the platform I loved above all others, that was Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, an RPG that not only mastered the art of satisfying simplicity but also had the bros actually work together to overcome their obstacles which was a surprisingly rare occurrence back then. And now we have three sequels to this title, Partners in Time is probably the most disappointing sequel Ive ever played for a variety of reasons, Bowsers Inside Story was an improvement but I couldnt shake the feeling when playing as the Mario Bros here that their quirky team up tricks were a bit old hat. So in all honestly I wasnt really that pumped for Dream Team Bros but it had the good fortune of landing in a pretty sparse period so it got the Day 1 treatment regardless. From the trailers I assumed this game to follow more in the spirit of Bowsers Inside Story and Id say that assumption turned out correct, unfortunately the dream dynamic doesnt stack up to playing as the King of Koopas.
Upon first looking at the map for this game a wave of familiarity washed over me, yep theres a beach, a castle, woods, a mountain and a desert, its unfortunate that they didnt branch out further with these location themes, such is the fate of Super Mario series games. But fortunately most of these areas are bursting with colour and packing quite a visual punch on an artistic level, the area themes may be old but the visual styles help make most of them feel unique among the series. The switch to 3D has been quite nice with the art helping prop up the simplistic 3D. The sprites on this occasion though can be a bit messy looking at times, they have an almost painterly look and some of the details on smaller characters/enemies can look a bit blurred, still they fit within the world itself and Ive always got time for the new enemy designs this series delivers.
For whatever reason though these sprites are a bit odd with collision detection, jumping or hammering an enemy to get the upper hand before a fight can be a crap shoot at times, hammers going through enemies, managing to jump on enemies that are at the same height level as the player and even getting a handy jump start by landing on an enemys flame attack that should instead burn my backside, Im not sure why the collision detection is more clumsy in this one, Ill chalk it down to the mix of 3D and 2D.
The overworld in Dream Team takes a seat inbetween Superstar Sagas more traditional RPG style map and the kind of cobbled together one from Bowsers Inside Story, the map being more cohesive is always a plus for me.
Enough about maps, what about this games unique hook? The Dream world plays from a sidescrolling point of view much like the interior of Bowsers Guts, its battles offer a twist on the established formula of jumping and hammering foes. Mario only gets one attack before the enemies move but each jump or hammer is accompanied by numerous Luigis greatly increasing the amount of enemies that can be struck at once, as such this leads to many battles being group focused, weaker enemies that attack with numbers. Dodging attacks in the dreamworld has greater freedom as Mario has the entire side of the screen to himself, sometimes you have to hammer defend from four angles or have full control over Mario's movement in order to dodge. While these dream battles start off as a fun change of pace they begin to fall into problems later on as certain battles can last a damn long time if you dont use the special moves, the Lakitu and Spiny combos leap to mind especially with the spiny groups drawn out attack phase. Speaking of special moves theyre basically just another style of bros attacks only with a lot more Luigi, these are probably the best batch of specials in the game with their gleefully inventive use of multiple Luigis and even the gyro controlled ball of Luigis handles a lot better than I expected, though the special moves still suffer from being too long winded which Ill get to later on.
Traversing the Dream World is all about gimmicks, theres an absolute ton of new moves to discover in here, each one (well bar one single odd exception) explained to you in a slow and demeaning way which tests my patience as the game once again tests my ability to move left and right in a different form. The early gimmicks usually involve some fiddly stylus and button management as you prod Luigis face on the touch screen, the far better moves come from calling in a stack of Luigis that open up a whole new set of area traversing moves much like those in the standard game only more crazy yet still a tad familiar. The game frequently switches between Overworld and Dream World, far more than I ever expected.
Back in the real world its business as usual, twirl across gaps, break rocks, battle enemies with jumps, hammers and bros attacks, now that this is the fourth game of this style its certainly worn me down. Theres still something to be praised about how the M&L handles these things, the maps operating like a mix of RPG overworld and dungeon staples incorporating some basic duo platforming abilities among other things to keep it interesting and push the emphasis on it being an Action orientated RPG beyond the battle system.
The soundtrack is the series strongest, now to the horror of many let me say that I dont think this series has ever had truly great soundtracks, some decent suitable tracks with a small handful of outlying fantastic ones fits the bill for the series as far as Im concerned. Dream Team is the usual but better, the dream world battle theme is pure magic for my ears and the forest/wood area has a pretty brilliant theme in both the overworld and dream world locations, if you really dig the series music then this may well be your favourite of the lot.
Okay so Ive got the pleasantries out of the way, time to go to town on this game.
You know as fundamentally solid as all the above is Dream Team Bros manages to give me an issue with almost all of those things.
Starting with battles, enemy attacks that take forever are seriously annoying, its more of a boss thing but certain enemies find a way to extend their screen time in increasingly tiresome ways be it a Flyguy dropping in yet another goomba to the fight or often in the dream world defending an overly elaborate mob attack with each of the group trying to get a cheap shot in. When it comes to bosses (and a select few standard enemies) youve got the new type of evasion which consists on Mario and Luigi running towards or away from the screen being pursued by something menacing, while fun at first these moves start getting stupidly long as the game progresses, I dont want to count how many times I was made to run through a long Thwomp gauntlet where my eventual success was rewarded with causing the pursuer an insignificant amount of damage for all that work.
But hey its not just the opponents who can drag things out, ever since Partners in Time presented bros items the brothers have been able to cause whopping amounts of damage in exchange for playing a little minigame, moves like the bomb derby are how it should be done, quick and to the point. Ones like hopping on a star, busting out the gyro and tilting into smaller stars to powerup for a good 20 seconds arent something I want to have to keep doing over and over, the longest special moves in Superstar Saga are over by the time the bros have got in position to begin their bros attacks in this game
Dream Team made me fear new mechanics knowing that one of the two helpers was ready to pounce upon me with a sloooooow explanation of how to perform such tricks, the fact that the game locks you into a situation numerous times where Im frozen in place pressing the R button to switch action commands because I assumedly have the memory of a goldfish and might not remember how to press R is mind boggling, YES I ALSO KNOW THAT I CAN MOVE WITH THE CIRCLE PAD! Yet here I am being made to take steps back and forth and prove my mastery of taking a few steps like 15 hours into the game. This persists even to the games final area, see on one hand I appreciate them still having a few small techniques to show this far into the game but when it comes with these grating and condensing tutorials followed up with slow camera panning, filler text and the helper spoiling any upcoming puzzle just in case I dont quite grasp my newfound powers then I almost wish they didnt bother.
Then of course theres the fact that some of these moves like the spin jump are present in every entry, wheres my leave me alone, Im aware of how this move works option?
Never forget the later badge shop, congratulations, you won a FLIPPIN TUTORIAL, dammit I know how badges work Ive had them for like 10 hours now! Why does the game not trust in my ability to even navigate the start menu?!
The game stretches itself to around 30 hours minus optional content despite the fact that looking at the map makes the area look similar in size to previous games which tended to take like 18-20 hours. Well the way they do this is quite simple, most areas of the map are in fact very big, have fun fighting the same group of enemies over and over and over again as each sections drags on as long as possible, its a damn endurance run at times.
The pacing is shaky and often very formulaic, theres a repetitive rhythm in play here, collect 10 attack pieces, free the Pi'illo folk to open the way, boss, enter the bigger dreamworld location, also collect 10 attack pieces here, boss, barebones plot progression, switch area, and go again. Each area of the map takes a good chunk of time, the few enemies within cant sustain the time spent in each area, oh it gives you plenty of opportunities to fill in the challenge checklist I guess which consists of the same tasks in every area, evade 10 attacks in a row, perform 10 excellent attacks in a row, beat *insert enemy without getting damaged.
Lets talk about giant battles, its all fun at first but it never evolves from being a heavily guided gimmick fest where every action has to be explained because otherwise youd be at a loss, I feel like Im playing a heavily scripted QTE fight akin to those in recent Cyberconnect2 games like Asuras Wrath and the Naruto Ninja storm titles except not as spectacular. Turns out the gyro isnt quite so hot when used with the 3DS held in book style, I want to like these fights but theyre basically long interactive cinematic sequences that don't stack up to standard boss fights.
Plot and writing, well its a Mario game so you can guess how things turn out. Antasma is a poor villain, bland to the point that the Shroobs were funnier with their gibberish speak, such a great design wasted on this boorish fellow. I still hate Starlow/Chippy, parroting characters that over explain things to mute main characters is one of my gaming gripes and Prince Pillowface or whatever his name is basically gets to be the second one of these characters in one game, whoopee. Dialogue on the whole is a step down, the funny stuff is seemingly characters having speech quirks like shouting BEEF all the time and talking your ear off with nonsense while the bros faceplant, did the Hoohooligans always add hoo into every sentence? It feels forced like the game desperately wants me to laugh. Bowser and his underlings still deliver on the dialogue, when the King of Koopas speaks I listen. Otherwise the writing comes across as almost boring, the plot offers nothing of any real interest and theres no new characters here that standout which is a bit disappointing.
As it stands Dream Team bros was a game I both enjoyed and endured in equal measure, its simply too long for its own good and continues to bog the series down with increased gimmickry as well as basically being more of the same. At this point I think Ive reached my limit with the M&L formula, it certainly tries to freshen itself up with numerous little mechanics but they just arent enough, I can only hope that now Alpha Dream can move onto something else that isnt another M&L game, if they really must stick with this formula Ill take Popo and Nana over Mario and Luigi at this point simply for window dressing variety, those two can jump and use hammers as well you know, lets just ignore marketability.
Of course if youre raring for more M&L in the vein of BIS then go nuts, youll probably love this.
To be honest Owl, most of your pleasantries were quickly followed up by a criticism, so you going to town on the game didn't feel like a big change of pace.
Decent write-up though, can't say I agree with all of it (or most of it) on what I've played so far, but nothing has struck me as unfair.
Decent write-up though, can't say I agree with all of it (or most of it) on what I've played so far, but nothing has struck me as unfair.
Nocturnowl
Member
I didn't want to be mister negative but I basically was, i'm truly that guy for this thread.
Thing is you can flip some of those points around to be a positive, for some i'm sure the longer length is a plus, someone may like dream battles far more than any of Bowser's stuff in the previous game and so on.
So in case anyone starts fearing a sticker star situation here that's not the case, not that i've played sticker star myself.
Thing is you can flip some of those points around to be a positive, for some i'm sure the longer length is a plus, someone may like dream battles far more than any of Bowser's stuff in the previous game and so on.
So in case anyone starts fearing a sticker star situation here that's not the case, not that i've played sticker star myself.
saveweyard
Banned
First thing I thought of when I read the OT title:
If only that was included...
If only that was included...
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Damn, that was a long rant. However, I do not share your love of Superstar Saga(in fact, I put it in the bottom half of Mario RPGs), and love Bowser's Inside Story, overlong attack animations and gimmicky giant boss battles included(although this is without taking the gyro into account). Very interested to see how I fall on the matter. Rest assured there will be a "screw nocturowl, this game was awesome!" post if need be!
Nocturnowl
Member
In around a month or whenever it is you get your grubby mitts on the game and finish it I expect that to be the title of your very own summary post.
I begrudgingly respect your dismissal of Superstar Saga but if it's behind Partners in Time then we're going to have to throw down.
And it will forever be a tease for me with those purple squares.NoA is teasing me with that Streetpass puzzle.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
BIS > TTYD > PM > SS > SMRPG > SPM > PiT
Ok so not in the second half, but in the middle! I came to it after Bowser's Inside Story, so it just came across as kinda small and slight in comparison..
Sucks about the villain being kinda wack though. I didn't want Fawful again, but I was hoping he'd be pretty cool; he's got a great character design.
My copy arrived last night, so played the opening 45 minutes on the train this morning. The opening hour or two are always slow in PM and M&L games, but this is particularly glacial. Looks like arseholes too, especially compared to Sticker Star.
Superstar Saga is still the pinnacle of M&L games. I'm not passing judgement on Dream Team Bros yet, but no sequel has ever had the spark of the first, and are more linear and slow.
Superstar Saga is still the pinnacle of M&L games. I'm not passing judgement on Dream Team Bros yet, but no sequel has ever had the spark of the first, and are more linear and slow.
If that helps I agree with you on everything you said :lol:
Lord Ghirahim
Member
I can't tell if you actually think he got banned for that or not.
Neuromancer
Member
I'm assuming this wont be like Paper Mario Sticker Star where I'm going to need a FAQ to get through the game? I've never played a Mario & Luigi game before.