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Marvel Cinematic Universe |OT2| Discussion on released and future projects (spoilers)

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T

tomtom94

Member
Dalek said:
I personally apologize for the crow thread. I feel dumb. Feel free to flog me.
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[/obnoxiousprick]
 
T

TEJ

Member
I thought i'd discuss it here, since that alan moore topic is poison.

The most insulting criticism towards marvel movie fans, or fans of blockbuster action films is that we are intellectually inferior because we watch these movies. Thing is, most marvel fans understand that these aren't superdeep movies, but well made escapist fun.

Like someone said yesterday, most of us don't watch indie dramas because we get enough of that in real life. Is it really sinful to watch movies for escapist fun? Are we stupid because we want to watch something that isn't life changingly meaningful?

There's so much bad shit going on in the world, what's so wrong with watching movies where heroes can win and not everything is so damned cynical?

A good friend of mine said that if you can logically explain why you like a certain type of movie or entertainment, from low budget jean claude van damme films to indie dramas, you aren't stupid.

There's nothing wrong with going to a theater to smile, laugh, and feel happy afterwards.
 
D

danielcw

Member
TEJ said:
The most insulting criticism towards marvel movie fans, or fans of blockbuster action films is that we are intellectually inferior because we watch these movies. Thing is, most marvel fans understand that these aren't superdeep movies, but well made escapist fun.

Like someone said yesterday, most of us don't watch indie dramas because we get enough of that in real life. Is it really sinful to watch movies for escapist fun? Are we stupid because we want to watch something that isn't life changingly meaningful?

There's so much bad shit going on in the world, what's so wrong with watching movies where heroes can win and not everything is so damned cynical?
Click to expand...

I guess the counter-argument would be, that we could spend our time doing better things.
My reply to that would be, that our soul needs "food" too.

That being said, I wish more movies would also have something to say, at least reach the level of Winter Soldier or Dark Knight in that regard, which isn't much.
Even the X-Men films left behind their inherent message.
 
J

Jest Chillin

Member
danielcw said:
I guess the counter-argument would be, that we could spend our time doing better things, to which I would reply, that our soul needs "food" too.

That being said, I wish more movies would also have something to say, at least reach the level of Winter Soldier or Dark Knight in that regard, which isn't much.
Even the X-Men films left behind their inherent message.
Click to expand...

The problem with the counter argument is that it presumes the viewer has the time and money to afford that "soul" food.

A working class person doesn't benefit from watching Blackfish nor do they affect change in the world after watching it because they are not the ones constantly going to Seaworld. So what is a more effective use of time for them? Watching the depressing docu about animal abuse in a theme park they might go to once or twice in their life or watching Melissa McCarthy fall over and break a table for a few laughs... Perhaps watch a blind kid from Hells Kitchen protect the working class citizens of that city from being victimized by thugs, mobsters, or crazy cool looking mystical ninjas?

When society has advanced to a place where everyone has equal amounts of disposible income and free time... Then an argument about how we spend those things becomes relevant. Before that though... It's unfair to unleash that critique upon the populace. It's the equivalent of looking down on someone for not going to college without considering the myriad of legitimate reasons a person could have for such a choice that aren't a lack of intelligence or laziness
 
D

danielcw

Member
Jest Chillin said:
The problem with the counter argument is that it presumes the viewer has the time and money to afford that "soul" food.
Click to expand...

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but the "soul food" was my counter argument to the counter argument.
I was trying to say, that movies, any movie, are food for the soul.
 
J

Jest Chillin

Member
danielcw said:
Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but the "soul food" was my counter argument to the counter argument.
I was trying to say, that movies, any movie, are food for the soul.
Click to expand...

Ah ok. I misunderstood, I suppose, because I don't see *every* movie as good for the soul. I mean.. Jackass 3 isn't what I would consider soul enriching. But I suppose it can sort of be looked at that way from a entertainment -> enjoyment -> soul refreshment angle.
 
C

crimsonheadGCN

Banned
P

Pachimari

Member
Let's get an update to everybody's lists after having seen Ant-Man. How does it look?

I won't be able to watch Ant-Man until Wednesday.
 
N

Neoxon

Junior Member
Madridista said:
Let's get an update to everybody's lists after having seen Ant-Man. How does it look?

I won't be able to watch Ant-Man until Wednesday.
Click to expand...
  • Jackpot: Guardians, Winter Soldier, Avengers 1, Iron Man 1, Ant-Man
  • Pretty Solid: Avengers 2, Iron Man 3, Captain America 1, Thor 1, The Incredible Hulk
  • Eh: Thor 2, Iron Man 2
 
P

Pachimari

Member
Neoxon said:
  • Jackpot: Guardians, Winter Soldier, Avengers 1, Iron Man 1, Ant-Man
  • Pretty Solid: Avengers 2, Iron Man 3, Captain America 1, Thor 1, The Incredible Hulk
  • Eh: Thor 2, Iron Man 2
Click to expand...
I don't think I have read your impression of Ant-Man as I haven't been able to follow the OT page for page. What did you think of it?
 
N

Neoxon

Junior Member
Madridista said:
I don't think I have read your impression of Ant-Man as I haven't been able to follow the OT page for page. What did you think of it?
Click to expand...
Here's the quote of my impressions from the Ant-Man OT.
Neoxon said:
Pros
  • The humor. I laughed out loud more than I did for even Guardians. I guess that's what happens when you keep Edgar Wright's trademark humor.
  • Tying into the humor, Luis was a much better character than I expected him to be. The ads made him come off as annoying, but his character works exceptionally well in the actual movie.
  • I really got a kick out of the flashbacks,
    but I wish we got to see more of Janet (loved her old outfit, as well as the new one despite it being unfinished). The CGI on Michael Douglas as a middle-aged man was amazing, I couldn't even tell it was CGI. Plus it was nice to see Peggy & Older Howard again.
  • They actually got me to care about the ants,
    I actually shouted "NO!" when Antony got shot.
  • The Falcon bit was actually well-done, & it served as a great trial by fire for Scott.
  • I honestly got a major kick out of the Spider-Man reference.
  • The dramatic moments were pretty well-done overall, though it didn't hit as hard as the humor (nor did I expect it to, but the dramatic scenes got the job done).

Cons
  • Yellowjacket seemed a bit two-dimensional. Then again, Marvel isn't generally the best when it comes to villains (with a few exceptions). Though I'm usually a bit more forgiving about first movie villains since the first movie is normally more about establishing the hero.
  • There were a few pacing issues early on in the movie, but they leveled out in the second half of the film. This will likely be more apparent in my second viewing.
  • I wish Hope was given more to do (since she did great in what she did do),
    though the mid-credits scene is pretty much gonna grant my wish in future films.
  • Not necessarily a con, but while I did like the dramatic moments overall, I felt like they were better balanced in Guardians.

Overall, I'd give Ant-Man an 8/10 for now. Maybe after a second viewing & giving the film a month to set in my mind that could change, but for now I enjoyed it.

For what it's worth, my theater was packed, so the positive word-of-mouth actually got out there in time.
Click to expand...
 
R

ratcliffja

Member
Neoxon said:
Here's the quote of my impressions from the Ant-Man OT.
Click to expand...

No lie, my wife actually cracked up when
Antony died
. I just grimaced and rolled my eyes.

Edit: But yeah, the FX with
old Michael Douglas
were absolutely amazing. Ironically, I think the action and comic-booky parts of the movie were absolutely the highlights. You'd think they'd hired an action movie director to direct a humor-focused comic book movie instead of the other way around.
 
D

danielcw

Member
Neoxon said:
  • Jackpot: Guardians, Winter Soldier, Avengers 1, Iron Man 1, Ant-Man
  • Pretty Solid: Avengers 2, Iron Man 3, Captain America 1, Thor 1, The Incredible Hulk
  • Eh: Thor 2, Iron Man 2
Click to expand...

I like your format, so I just steel it,
and underline my changes:
  • Jackpot: Guardians, Winter Soldier, Avengers 1, Iron Man 3, Ant-Man
  • Pretty Solid: Avengers 2, Iron Man 1, Captain America 1, Thor 1, The Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2
  • Eh: Thor 2
Let's call it the Iron Man Shuffle :)
Avengers 2 has the chance to rise on further viewings
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
I still need to see Ant-Man again, but here's my Phase 2 ranking:

Great tier:

1. Winter Soldier
2. Guardians of the Galaxy

Very good tier:

3. Iron Man 3
4. Ant Man

Good tier:

5. Thor 2
6. Age of Ultron

I liked every movie in phase 2. I think AOU being at the bottom has a lot to do with high expectations going in.
 
R

ratcliffja

Member
Fine if we're doing tier lists, it's:

Awesome tier:
1. GOTG
2. Winter Soldier

Great tier:
1. Captain America
2. Iron Man 1

Very good tier:
1. Avengers: Age of Ultron
2. Avengers
3. Iron Man 3

Fun to see once or twice tier:
1. Thor 2
2. Thor

Gets the job done tier:
1. Iron Man 2
2. The Incredible Hulk

Why did this get made? tier:
1. Ant-Man
 
X

X05

Upside, inside out he's livin la vida loca, He'll push and pull you down, livin la vida loca
Here is my ranking:

Thanos is in this: Avengers, GotG, AoU
Thanos is not in this: AoS, AC, DD, IM1, IM2, IM3, TFA, TWS, Thor, TDW, TIH

Here is the last proper ranking I did, will update and post it here after I see Ant-Man tomorrow.
 
R

ratcliffja

Member
GAMEPROFF said:
Why dont you write a couple more posts that you hate Ant Man? We almost forgot.
Click to expand...

People were making lists, so I made one. I'm actually among the biggest MCU apologists there are. I think it's weird that you seemed to love IM2 and hate IM3, but that's your opinion. It's a shame that Marvel made a movie that I think is just plain bad, but every studio's allowed a disappointment here and there.
 
P

Pachimari

Member
Am I the only one who find if hard to rank these movies? They seem to move back and forth on my list all the time depending on my mood.
 
kunonabi

kunonabi

Member
Madridista said:
Let's get an update to everybody's lists after having seen Ant-Man. How does it look?

I won't be able to watch Ant-Man until Wednesday.
Click to expand...

S-Rank: Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy, Iron Man
A-Rank: Ant-Man, Avengers: Age of Ultron, Captain America: The First Avenger
B-Rank: Avengers, Thor, Iron Man 3
C-Rank: Thor: The Dark World, Iron Man 2
D-Rank: The Incredible Hulk
 
B

BobTheFork

Member
S-Rank: Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Iron Man, Avengers
A-Rank: Guardians of the Galaxy, Iron Man 2
B-Rank: Iron Man 3, Ant-Man, Avengers: Age of Ultron,
C-Rank: Captain America: The First Avenger, The Incredible Hulk, Thor,
D-Rank: Thor: The Dark World

That's about right for me. I may move things if I thought about it more.
 
A

AMUSIX

Member
Madridista said:
Am I the only one who find if hard to rank these movies? They seem to move back and forth on my list all the time depending on my mood.
Click to expand...
Yes, very, very difficult. This list took me hours to do, and I still feel as a few could be shuffled around.





Ooohh, list time! Normally I'd just tier these things, but let me see if I can get more of an itemized list going....will also attempt to apply some reasoning...feel free to reply to any and tell me how wrong I am...

Guardians of the Galaxy - The more I see this, the higher it gets, and, for now, it sits at the top. I've shown it to so many who aren't into these movies, and it's always enjoyed. I suppose it being so disconnected with the MCU helps, but the soundtrack helps more (as do the characters).

Captain America The Winter Soldier - The style, the action, the story. Fuck, this is just all around great. Yeah, it ends in a huge third act setpiece, but getting there is paced so wonderfully, and does so much justice to Cap and Widow's characters. Also, Zola wasn't just about data, but how those machines were interconnected. I don't think it's something that was transferable to just a memory dump.

Avengers - It's a pretty slow build to that incredible third act action, but does a great job in laying out the idea of a mismatched team, and the work Fury does to put them together. Love that each hero has their moments (yes, even Hawkeye) and it remains amazing that Marvel was able to pull something like the Avengers off.

Iron Man 3 - This is one case where I just don't understand the hate this movie gets. It's fun, it's charming, it flows, it delivered a kid who wasn't annoying...what?!?...and it is absolutely a Shane Black film. I think Stark shows more humanity in this film than any others...and the creative action sequences were a nice touch. Also, LOVED the Mandarin twist (even without the one-shot retcon).

Iron Man - Fun, solid, great ride with a weak finale. First, this was almost just above IM3, but that final battle against Iron Monger took it down a step. First of the MCU, and still one of the best, with excellent mid-movie action, and just a great realization of Iron Man kicking ass. Also loved that they left the Tony-Pepper romance for the second film, great way to keep an unneeded story thread out of the mix.

Ant-Man - I've only seen it once, but, right now Ant-Man sits here. Very, very entertaining, and I am very happy with how they handled Hank and Janet. Just worked so well. I did feel there were some missed opportunities to round out the heist feel a bit, and establish roles a bit more cleanly. Also, they should have gotten rid of any comments about the Pym Particles affecting the mind, completely unneeded, and has led to confusion.

Avengers: Age of Ultron - This one is odd, and may change positions in the coming years. In many ways, I think it's a better film than the first Avengers, but I absolutely understand it's flaws. Still, the presentations of Vision, Scarlet Witch, and Quicksilver are all done so well, that it's hard to fault it too heavily. For me, the only major problem was that there wasn't enough loss, and it was a bit too clean.

Captain America - Probably my favorite origin story in any MCU (or any superhero film, for that matter). Love that, even after he gets his strength and abilities, it's still quite some time before he becomes a hero. The montage never bothered me, outside of wanting more with the Howling Commandos...there were plenty of action sequences in it as it were.

Thor - Watching Loki do his thing here is awesome. Also, I've never understood the criticism of the love story, it's a budding infatuation that culminates in a single kiss. It's not supposed to be anything more than that. The Asgard scenes are rightfully praised, but the Earth scenes are the fun ones constantly referenced... "Another!"

Iron Man 2 - Simply put, there are just too many story lines here. I don't think the inclusion of SHIELD was a bad idea (actually very good) just that there were already too many stories happening when it shows up in the film. They should have cut out the disease/'devil in a bottle' story and just focused on the "Sins of the Father" story.

Thor 2 - Weak villain, weaker female lead, and a story I don't care about. All a bad combination. Ultimately, Thor+Avengers+Thor2 is all about the Thor-Loki relationship, and in that way, it works, but the main story fizzles.

The Incredible Hulk - some great action sequences, but is 100% devoid of any plot. It only has a premise (the same premise that every Hulk story has...Banner needs to hide from Ross while finding a way to cure/control the beast) Beyond that, there is zero story.



If I were to break this up into tiers, it'd probably be evenly in threes:
GotG, CA:TWS, Avengers
IM3, IM, Ant-Man
CA:TFA, Thor, AoU
IM2, Thor2, TIH

With the note that Thor 2 and TIH are a step or two below everything else, and that, really, I have never NOT enjoyed myself in a Marvel film.


Also, as far as Phase 1 v Phase 2...I think I'll go with Phase 2 being stronger.
 
R

ratcliffja

Member
I don't get why people are so down on Thor 2. Portman put in a much better performance, Loki was at least as good as he was in the first one, and the relationship Thor and Loki had to their mother/foster mother was handled really well I thought. Sure Malekith was forgettable, but so are 90% of MCU villains. It was a fun movie with decent emotional resonance.
 
N

Neoxon

Junior Member
Allow me to adopt the new ranking style.
  • S-Rank: Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain America: The Winter Soldier
  • A-Rank: Iron Man, The Avengers, Ant-Man
  • B-Rank: Avengers: Age of Ultron, Iron Man 3, Captain America: The First Avenger, Thor
  • C-Rank: The Incredible Hulk, Thor: The Dark World
  • D-Rank: Iron Man 2
 
W

WadiumArcadium

Member
Neoxon said:
Allow me to adopt the new ranking style.
  • S-Rank: Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain America: The Winter Soldier
  • A-Rank: Iron Man, The Avengers, Ant-Man
  • B-Rank: Avengers: Age of Ultron, Iron Man 3, Captain America: The First Avenger
  • C-Rank: The Incredible Hulk, Thor: The Dark World
  • D-Rank: Iron Man 2
Click to expand...

I'd say that's pretty spot on.
 
J

jph139

Member
I've always put the MCU in tiers. Haven't seen Ant-Man yet; next weekend. Wonder if it'll end up bumping down one of the Avengers titles or fill out the bottom row...?

Top Tier: Captain America: The First Avenger > Guardians of the Galaxy > The Incredible Hulk > The Avengers
Mid Tier: Captain America: The Winter Soldier > Iron Man 3 > Iron Man > Avengers: Age of Ultron
Low Tier: Iron Man 2 > Thor > Thor: The Dark World
 
S

Scientist Supreme!

Banned
I don't like ranking whether something is "great" or "A tier" so I'm going do this:

Would watch again: Captain America TFA - Avengers 1&2 - Iron man 3 - Winter Soldier - Guardians of Galaxy - Antman

This rest are fine but I don't need/want to see them again. But I need to see Thor 1&2 before giving them the deciding vote.
 
A

aHebrewMenagerie

Member
Haven't seen Ant-Man yet, waiting for this weekend to see it with my girlfriend when she comes to visit but:
  • Amazeballs Tier: Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, The Avengers, Daredevil (because fuck you all, I'm including that masterpiece)
  • Damn Good Tier: Iron Man, Captain America: The First Avenger
  • Not Great, But Still Fun Tier: Avengers: Age of Ultron, Iron Man 3, Iron Man 2
  • Pretty Meh Tier: Thor, The Incredible Hulk
  • Straight Up Offensive Tier: Thor: The Dark World
 
A

AMUSIX

Member
Neoxon said:
Allow me to adopt the new ranking style.
  • S-Rank: Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain America: The Winter Soldier
  • A-Rank: Iron Man, The Avengers, Ant-Man
  • B-Rank: Avengers: Age of Ultron, Iron Man 3, Captain America: The First Avenger
  • C-Rank: The Incredible Hulk, Thor: The Dark World
  • D-Rank: Iron Man 2
Click to expand...

OMG, that is SOOO wrong! TIH is clearly the WORST MCU film. I demand that you change your rankings RIGHT NOW!!!
 
N

Neoxon

Junior Member
AMUSIX said:
OMG, that is SOOO wrong! TIH is clearly the WORST MCU film. I demand that you change your rankings RIGHT NOW!!!
Click to expand...
Eh, TIH actually has some redeeming qualities, more so than Iron Man 2 & Thor 2. Plus the Harlem fight at the end was quite memorable.
 
D

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
Here's my Phase Two rankings, including the TV shows:

1) Captain America 2
2) Guardians of the Galaxy
3) AoS Season 2
4) Daredevil Season 1
5) Ant-Man
6) Iron Man 3
7) Agent Carter Season 1
8) Avengers 2
9) Thor 2
10) AoS Season 1
 
R

richiek

steals Justin Bieber DVDs
Jamie Alexander talks about Thor 3:

What's going to happen with you and your character Sif in the next "Thor" film? We've been teasing out a lot of your character's origins, but we've never seen it. Are we going to explore this? And how deep are we going to go ?

Marvel, I think on purpose, they don’t tell me certain things. Because they know I’ll be like, "So here's what's gonna happen." But I do know I will be in "Thor 3" and that Sif will have a very pivotal part in that movie. I just can’t tell you what because I’ll get shot.

Were you excited to see the stuff [Marvel] put in "Avengers: Age of Ultron" that hints at it? There was a big tease out in that?

Yeah, there’s a lot of great stuff they’ve peppered in through "Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.," "The Avengers," "Captain" will have some stuff. There's just all kind of Easter eggs and hints, if you’re really paying attention. They’re so good at interweaving everything throughout those films.
Click to expand...

So apparently, Civil War will foreshadow Ragnarok in some way.
 
B

BBboy20

Member
Neoxon said:
Allow me to adopt the new ranking style.
  • S-Rank: Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain America: The Winter Soldier
  • A-Rank: Iron Man, The Avengers, Ant-Man
  • B-Rank: Avengers: Age of Ultron, Iron Man 3, Captain America: The First Avenger
  • C-Rank: The Incredible Hulk, Thor: The Dark World
  • D-Rank: Iron Man 2
Click to expand...
OOooooo, putting IM1 at an A.

Seriously, I really want the first scene of Infinity War to be the
original five taking on Loki
. Somehow.
 
D

Dalek

Member
Neoxon said:
Allow me to adopt the new ranking style.
  • S-Rank: Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain America: The Winter Soldier
  • A-Rank: Iron Man, The Avengers, Ant-Man
  • B-Rank: Avengers: Age of Ultron, Iron Man 3, Captain America: The First Avenger
  • C-Rank: The Incredible Hulk, Thor: The Dark World
  • D-Rank: Iron Man 2
Click to expand...

Perfection.
 
L

LaNaranja

Member
I just made a list one page back but after thinking on it and reflecting on all the films, I think I put Iron Man 3 at the top. I feel like I am alone in thinking that the first Iron Man is the weakest MCU movie.

Iron Man 3 > Age of Ultron > Winter Soldier > Ant-Man = Guardians = Thor 2 > Avengers > Cap 1 = Iron Man 2 > Thor > Hulk > Iron Man
 
P

Penguin

Member
Neoxon said:
Allow me to adopt the new ranking style.
  • S-Rank: Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain America: The Winter Soldier
  • A-Rank: Iron Man, The Avengers, Ant-Man
  • B-Rank: Avengers: Age of Ultron, Iron Man 3, Captain America: The First Avenger
  • C-Rank: The Incredible Hulk, Thor: The Dark World
  • D-Rank: Iron Man 2
Click to expand...

Am I going crazy or did you completely drop Thor?
 
N

neoanarch

Member
I guess I'm the only one who doesn't rank Avengers. I think AoU is the better of the two films. If I had to put it on a top ten it would be closer to ten. First on my list is Cap2 and bottom is probably Thor 2 and Hulk.
 
F

FUBAR McDangles

Member
For me:

Legit great: Guardians, Cap 2
Good: Avengers, Ant-Man, Iron Man
Okay: Age of Ultron, Cap, Thor, Iron Man 2, Hulk
Bad: Thor 2
Movie that killed desire to watch any of the trilogy ever again: Iron Man 3

Iron Man 3 sucked ass.
 
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