Support NeoGAF

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

This is the first time I've thought "wow i want to read punisher" where do i start to get this punisher?

Here:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=88965477&postcount=471

Hes been captured quite a few times, hes also got himself captured on purpose a few times already too. He's had several arcs where he was in prison, as well as one where they do sentence him to death for his crimes, but it ended up being staged.

Many heroes look the other way when it comes to the Punisher, as many aren't as goody goody as others think. It's also hypocritical of many heroes who spend time on a regular basis with other killers. Rucka's run was pretty good on this as they obviously thought of that, such as how accepting everyone is of Wolverine and hes on every team when hes a well known mass killer as well. Punisher is also extremely intelligent and a master tactician.

The NYPD themselves were shown to also just accept him with many officers agreeing with his methods, so they created a bs task force to go after him which is on purpose understaffed severely and not capable of really doing anything.

The NYPD consider Frank's methods as making their job easier for them, so they don't bother much beyond lip service... though there is an arc where some cops are hunting down in MAX, and the MAX final issues has the entirety of the NYPD after Frank, for legit reasons.

The fascinating thing about Ennis's MAX run is that he never paints Frank in a very positive light. He's almost always the lesser of two evils usually by a very thin margin. At best Frank is a sad old man broken by war, at worst he's a more vicious monster than those he "punishes."

Frank in the Max series is man who went to war and never came back, he's just this dark void who is alien to his family and country. He fell in love with war in Vietnam and his murdered family is the easiest excuse for endless wartime. Frank is no hero. Any good that comes from his exploits is almost coincidence. Still, Frank is often a badass and the people he kills are terrible and you cheer him on, but at the end when you look back you can't help but ask: how many people did he really save? Very few. What problems did really he fix? Almost none. Doesn't matter anyway because he doesn't really care, he lives only for the punishment. Easily my favorite interpretation of the character. No apologies from Frank or Ennis.



Oh, and Rawlins is one of the greatest scumbags in comics.

That final panel where Rawlins meets his fate... so good. Ennis' interpretation of Frank is pretty amazing.

 

[Mudcrab]

How can The Punisher not be caught by the cops already. It's hard to believe that you can leave a trail of bodies that immense and not be captured or killed by now. Without powers, how hasn't he been shot to death?

Again, Ennis is amazing.

 

[Loona]

Interesting project. I wasn't too aware of Jessica Jones beyond the likelihood of her being the one who has a kid with Luke Cage, whom Squirrel Girl is apparently babysitting in the comics - so it'd be fun if on occasion some worse case scenario is avoided in the series, Doreen Green just happens to be nearby.

Conversely, I like the idea of Punisher just being an out of focus presence - say, the protagonists go look for a witness or informer, but find him dead because Frank Castle got there 1st.

On the casting of Luke Cage, I recall in the 1st Thor movie, when he was trying to retrieve Mjolnir, this one unnamed black guy was the last line of defense that more than managed to leep up with him in a fight - seemed like a Cage nod at the time, at least for a huge Marvel fan that watched it with me, so I wonder if that'll amount to anything.

More importantly, regarding casting: who plays Wilson "all the fat is actually muscle" Fisk, a.k.a. The Kingpin?

Wondering about the Daredevil take too - for me part of the charm of the comics at their best is giving a blibd man's perspective in a medium that's 100% visual.
Getting to work with sound and motion could help, but the track record isn't too good, I hope they improve on the movie's take.

Maybe they'll tie Matt Murdock's training under Stick abd whatever order he's from with Iron Fist's? I have no idea if there are such ties in the comics.

 

[Mudcrab]

More importantly, regarding casting: who plays Wilson "all the fat is actually muscle" Fisk, a.k.a. The Kingpin?

That's actually something I hadn't thought about. Who would make a good Kingpin? Come to think of it I don't really know who should play Jessica Jones either.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

That's actually something I hadn't thought about. Who would make a good Kingpin? Come to think of it don't really know who should play Jessica Jones either.

RIP

 

[Mudcrab]

RIP

Yeah that sucks, but even if here were around they probably wouldn't use him. I'm sure they want to distance this version of DD from the Affleck flick as much as possible.

 

[Htown]

Interesting project. I wasn't too aware of Jessica Jones beyond the likelihood of her being the one who has a kid with Luke Cage, whom Squirrel Girl is apparently babysitting in the comics - so it'd be fun if on occasion some worse case scenario is avoided in the series, Doreen Green just happens to be nearby.

Jessica Jones had two brief series of comics before she got swept up in the Avengers comics because Brian Michael Bendis (who created Jessica Jones) started writing them. Alias was the first and best one, and focused on her as an ex-superhero who quit (for reasons I am not going to go into) and became a private detective.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Cast John Goodman as Kingpin.

 

[diaspora]

Cast John Goodman as Kingpin.

Oh god yes

 

[Mudcrab]

Cast John Goodman as Kingpin.

I'd pay to see John Goodman sumo wrestle Daredevil.

 

[Weapxn]

That's actually something I hadn't thought about. Who would make a good Kingpin? Come to think of it I don't really know who should play Jessica Jones either.

Michael Chiklis maybe? Clearly they'd have to stick him in a great fat suit or something.

 

[Azuran]

I would love a recommendation for a great run of Daredevil. I've never really gotten into him. He's a blind gymnast who can...see? and hits people with a stick? He always struck me as a lesser-tier super-hero, if he is even "super" at all.

Waid's current run is nothing short of amazing. Best book Marvel is currently printing out by far.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

That's actually something I hadn't thought about. Who would make a good Kingpin? Come to think of it I don't really know who should play Jessica Jones either.

I've mentioned this in previous threads but I'm not even 100% sure Marvel has the rights to Kingpin. He was originally part of the Spider-Man deal and there are conflicting reports on whether or not Sony "lent" him out to Fox for Daredevil, or if they straight up sold his rights to them. If they sold it to them, I'd imagine Marvel definitely has the rights but if not I don't know. I'm sure Marvel knows though and if I had to guess, they probably did get them.

 

[fallengorn]

If they include Bullseye, I hope they don't give him a forehead scar... Never liked it. It looks stupid.

 

[Mudcrab]

I would love a recommendation for a great run of Daredevil. I've never really gotten into him. He's a blind gymnast who can...see? and hits people with a stick? He always struck me as a lesser-tier super-hero, if he is even "super" at all.

Waid's current run is nothing short of amazing. Best book Marvel is currently printing out by far.

Waid's book is very good and ending soon unfortunately. Really, I would start with Brian Michael Bendis's run on Daredevil. You'll get a little Luke Cage and Jessica Jones too.

If they include Bullseye, I hope they don't give him a forehead scar... Never liked it. It looks stupid.

DD agrees.

 

[Funky Papa]

RIP

I raged a bit at first because Black Kingpin seemed out of place, but he ended up owning the everloving fuck of that crappy movie. RIP indeed.

Cast John Goodman as Kingpin.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Waid's book is very good and ending soon unfortunately. Really, I would start with Brian Michael Bendis's run on Daredevil. You'll get a little Luke Cage and Jessica Jones too.



DD agrees.

When did Daredevil finally sack up?

MAX Bullseye is fucking deranged, btw:

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Michael Chiklis maybe? Clearly they'd have to stick him in a great fat suit or something.

I think this would be a great idea if Chiklis was like a foot taller (he's something like 5' 7"). Maybe they could do some LOTR trickery and make him 7 feet. That would be awesome. Imagine him sitting behind a desk in every shot for episodes and then Daredevil finally confronts him and he steps out from behind the desk and just towers the fuck over him.

 

[eastx]

I think this would be a great idea if Chiklis was like a foot taller (he's something like 5' 7"). Maybe they could do some LOTR trickery and make him 7 feet. That would be awesome. Imagine him sitting behind a desk in every shot for episodes and then Daredevil finally confronts him and he steps out from behind the desk and just towers the fuck over him.

Yeah, using CG to create a Kingpin that looks closer to the comics version would be pretty awesome. I loved the Michael Clark Duncan version, but I always wanted that extremely intimidating size that you can't do without special effects. Same applies to Volstagg in the Thor movies.

 

[Itchy//Tasty]

I always wanted to see James Gandolfini as Kingpin but eh...too late.

How about Hank from Breaking Bad? Dean Norris.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

I always wanted to see James Gandolfini as Kingpin but eh...too late.

How about Hank from Breaking Bad? Dean Norris.

He's the same size as Chiklis but I think if they CG'd him bigger it would just look comical. Chiklis is a stocky dude so it wouldn't look as weird and too many people know how short Norris is compared to other actors. He has the head for it though lol.

 

[Dai101]

Welp, they De-beefed Chris Evans for the scrawny Steve Rogers, i'm sure they can do the opposite.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

You don't have to cast somebody already bald. Heads can be shaved.

Same thing happened with the Luthor fancasting. Everyone beelined towards "bald famous people we know" like hair is a permanent thing and razors don't exist.

 

[Father_Brain]

Sony does have the film rights to Kingpin per this 2012 interview: http://m.superherohype.com/features...-with-the-producers-of-the-amazing-spider-man

But my understanding, and I have yet to see explicit confirmation to the contrary, is that Marvel fully owns all TV rights to their characters.

 

[Xplatformer]

Yeah that sucks, but even if here were around they probably wouldn't use him. I'm sure they want to distance this version of DD from the Affleck flick as much as possible.

We can all hope.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Sony does have the film rights to Kingpin per this 2012 interview: http://m.superherohype.com/features...-with-the-producers-of-the-amazing-spider-man

But my understanding, and I have yet to see explicit confirmation to the contrary, is that Marvel fully owns all TV rights to their characters.

Ah that's true. I think they're hesitant of introducing characters they can't use in movies (in the off chance they get the rights back and can) but I don't think they'd have a problem with that in Kingpin's situation. He's more valuable as a Daredevil villain on TV.

 

[Weapxn]

You don't have to cast somebody already bald. Heads can be shaved.

Same thing happened with the Luthor fancasting. Everyone beelined towards "bald famous people we know" like hair is a permanent thing and razors don't exist.

I actually said Chiklis not because he is bald but because he can play scary and intimidating very well. The fact that he's a bald white dude just adds to the perfect casting choice factor IMO.

And yes, while razors do exist, there are plenty of actors who wouldn't sign on for the role if they had to shave their head, as dumb as that sounds.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

And yes, while razors do exist, there are plenty of actors who wouldn't sign on for the role if they had to shave their head, as dumb as that sounds.

I don't think people are limiting their fancasting because of that. Or even considering it. At all.

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

I actually said Chiklis not because he is bald but because he can play scary and intimidating very well. The fact that he's a bald white dude just adds to the perfect casting choice factor IMO.

And yes, while razors do exist, there are plenty of actors who wouldn't sign on for the role if they had to shave their head, as dumb as that sounds.

There are also bald caps and CG to hide it.

 

[Weapxn]

I don't think people are limiting their fancasting because of that. Or even considering it. At all.

Never said they were. Just responding to a point you brought up.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

that garth ennis punisher story where he goes to russia and kills thousands of people and nick fury beats a high ranking military official with a belt for trying to stage another 9/11 is the greatest comic book ive ever read

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Never said they were. Just responding to a point you brought up.

That doesn't make any sense, man.

that garth ennis punisher story where he goes to russia and kills thousands of people and nick fury beats a high ranking military official with a belt for trying to stage another 9/11 is the greatest comic book ive ever read

That's "Mother Russia," right? That one was pretty damned good.

The Barracuda run was really solid.

But the most fucked up one I remember reading was "Up is Down, Black is White."

 

[Mudcrab]

that garth ennis punisher story where he goes to russia and kills thousands of people and nick fury beats a high ranking military official with a belt for trying to stage another 9/11 is the greatest comic book ive ever read

Ennis recently wrote a series based on this version of Nick, called Fury MAX: My War Gone By. Pretty good.

 

[EliteArtist]

Castin news for this should be fun to watch. Marvel has been doing stellar for casting recently.

 

[Femmeworth]

This is exciting news, but now I have to start wondering when Netflix is going to jump the shark. :\

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

That doesn't make any sense, man.



That's "Mother Russia," right? That one was pretty damned good.

The Barracuda run was really solid.

But the most fucked up one I remember reading was "Up is Down, Black is White."

Was that the one that ended with

Spoiler

The punisher taking out that dudes intestines to interrogate him?

Ennis recently wrote a series based on this version of Nick, called Fury MAX: My War Gone By. Pretty good.

Yes, this was a great comic. Ennis and Goran Parlov should be forced to do a comic every month together until the end of time.

 

[odiin]

that garth ennis punisher story where he goes to russia and kills thousands of people and nick fury beats a high ranking military official with a belt for trying to stage another 9/11 is the greatest comic book ive ever read

It makes me so sad to know that Sam Jackson's Fury will never be that much of A badass.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

It makes me so sad to know that Sam Jackson's Fury will never be that much of A badass.

TBF I could see Samuel L Jackson being able to deliver those lines quite effectively but they'd never let him say them in a PG-13 movie.


A solo R Rated Nick Fury would be great though.

 

[HeroesInAHalfShell]

I'm curious to see how well these shows do. I think it's a great idea for lesser known (in the public eye) characters, and tying them all together with a Defenders mini-series is spectacular. I assume this will be in continuity with the MCU. If so, it's a great way to get these heroes some exposure before branching out into the film world with cameos and team-ups. I find it odd that they didn't team Cage and Iron Fist up in a Heroes for Hire show and give the fourth slot to Punisher though. We're only a few characters away from a full on Marvel Knights mash-up.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

As someone who's not a comic book guy, I'd prefer Netflix to keep making producing shows like OITNB or even House of Cards versus this. I just can't really get excited about more series based on comic book characters I don't have any particular allegiance to that are part of a universe I don't really care to explore.

I'm happy for you if you're a comic book fan, but I don't really know if it's worth getting excited about at the moment without even knowing who is attached to write/direct. Not to temper expectations, but...

I completely agree.

I'm a fan of the Marvel Cinematic Universe inasmuch as I (mostly) enjoy watching the films whenever they eventually come out on DVD, but I'm not really into superheroes - I don't read their comics and it's not like I'm lining up at midnight to see their movies or anything - so the fact that Netflix is going all in with Marvel by creating 5 (!) superhero shows is a bit disappointing to me since I'd much rather have Netflix invest in something more original and less (as you so succinctly put it in another thread) "creatively vapid".

Of course, I'll reserve judgement until we know more about who's writing, directing, starring, showrunning, etc. but right now I'm wary.

I do applaud the sheer audacity of the venture though. Four 13 hour long serialized series with a shared continuity all culminating in a 'miniseries event' is pretty damn unprecedented. I'm definitely curious to see how this plays out.

 

[Mudcrab]

Was that the one that ended with

Spoiler

The punisher taking out that dudes intestines to interrogate him?

Yes, this was a great comic. Ennis and Goran Parlov should be forced to do a comic every month together until the end of time.

The Slavers. One of my favorites.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Up is Down, Black is White is the one where the aunt-fucking gangster opens the story by digging up the graves of Frank's dead family & filming himself pissing on their remains

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

Up is Down, Black is White is the one where the aunt-fucking gangster opens the story by digging up the graves of Frank's dead family & filming himself pissing on their remains

Oh yeah, the ending to that one was crazy

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Was that the one that ended with

Spoiler

The punisher taking out that dudes intestines to interrogate him?

Yes, this was a great comic. Ennis and Goran Parlov should be forced to do a comic every month together until the end of time.

The Slavers.

And yes. Parlov/Ennis is godtier.

Up is Down, Black is White is the one where the aunt-fucking gangster opens the story by digging up the graves of Frank's dead family & filming himself pissing on their remains

"All that earns you is a little more pain than most."

GODDAMN.

 

[Xplatformer]

Castin news for this should be fun to watch. Marvel has been doing stellar for casting recently.

Have you seen Agents of Shield? Casting...meh

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Yunno what - the guy they got to play Ward?

He could probably do Punisher.

 

[Weapxn]

Have you seen Agents of Shield? Casting...meh

I feel like everything about this TV universe is going to be done with a lot more care than SHIELD. SHIELD is very extraneous and disposable. Unimportant. These new shows are popular or somewhat popular entities in themselves, not new characters with no existing fan base.

 

[sharbhund]

Sony does have the film rights to Kingpin per this 2012 interview: http://m.superherohype.com/features...-with-the-producers-of-the-amazing-spider-man

But my understanding, and I have yet to see explicit confirmation to the contrary, is that Marvel fully owns all TV rights to their characters.

I think that Marvel has all the cartoon TV rights, but not necessarily the live-action TV rights. See the Mutant X lawsuit filed by Fox.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Wow, they're stretching calling these guys "four of Marvel's most popular characters." This is like d-tier superheroes.

i think they mean in comic book terms, Luke Cage has been a staple character for like 7 years or more now, as is Daredevil he's had as many good runs as any character over the past 30 years all the way back to the Miller Run, theres the Waid run, Brubaker, and Bendis runs he's been a popular character with great stories. Luke Cage and Iron Fist were indeed a popular duo with a 10 year monthly run, and the immortal iron fist had a popular return and has been a presence in major team books for the past 8 or so years. Jessica Jones was in a great mini called Alias, and is also an avengers integrated into the marvel u thru luke cage tappin dat ass.

In comics you are flat out wrong. They are part of this past decades stable of popular characters definitely.

Its clear after the past 5 years that this tier nonsense based on nebulous and personal or anecdotal standards is bullshit, if done well people will watch the content, just look at the Green Arrow show, he is a huge COMICBOOK character that is now one of the most popular shows on television.

 

[WanderingWind]

In fact, it could be argued that the less entrenched a character is in the public's mind, the more a competent director/writing duo could make a show and or movie.