QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
There is way way way way way to much shit wrong on that list to even go over.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Marvel vs Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds |OT2| Sold exclusively at Dollar Tree
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
- Status
Ogrekiller
Member
OMG clockwork taken out
Ross out too. Salty runback from Final Round haha
Wong in losers too? No surprises with that team but still
Honestly I can't see Wong winning the tournament with this team
Ross out too. Salty runback from Final Round haha
Wong in losers too? No surprises with that team but still
Honestly I can't see Wong winning the tournament with this team
Nose Master
Member
Oh, that's why. I was watching Xanbats for some reason and not WNF. lol.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I just put in a bunch of numbers for half the charactersQisTopTier said:
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
USD said:
Word. His evasion skills were on point.
So Phoenix is really boring to watch now...
...actually, I wouldn't say that its boring - its just that when she's in, she wins 90% of the time. The "risk/reward" doesn't really exist when she's in play.
And even if you snap her in, you have about 5 seconds to get a solid hit in before the opponent hard tags another character in.
...actually, I wouldn't say that its boring - its just that when she's in, she wins 90% of the time. The "risk/reward" doesn't really exist when she's in play.
And even if you snap her in, you have about 5 seconds to get a solid hit in before the opponent hard tags another character in.
In my experience, you have to tag her in like at least 2-3 times to kill her off. But if you kill her off, it's 90% a win. It's just one combo away.Razor210 said:
No matter what people say about Phoenix, she is always high risk/high reward character. One snap back + one mix up into combo is a game ender. Phoenix players have it tough, it's so hard to win an entire tournament with that character and even if you do no one is going to respect you for it. They will be like "Oh he had Phoenix on his team LOL".
Also WTF @ ClakeyD using Sentinel. What happened to "I am going to play a team with all lady parts!". Man I loved his X-23/Tron/Morrigan team back in the days of WNF 1.1.
Gotta give some credit to Clockwork as well. He's got the best Phoenix in the world by far right now. It's just about impossible to run away from his Phoenix from hell, so you better be fast and focused enough to guess right when she teleport.
If he beat ClakeyD, I think he will destroy Combofiend who has been humiliated by dark phoenix over and over again.
If he beat ClakeyD, I think he will destroy Combofiend who has been humiliated by dark phoenix over and over again.
DryEyeRelief
Member
Even the admin in the stream chat is a shit head, jesus christ
Ogrekiller
Member
Good to hear Clock say he prefers regular Phoenix.. pity he still has to get 5 bars in order to cover her ass
Ogrekiller
Member
I swear Wong pulled off more Final Justices than everyone else that plays Cap on a live stream combined. Mad props for that.
Combofiend played better, although I personally was rooting for Clockw0rk. His Phoenix was great, but exposed every single flaw about the character.
Can't use hyper unless you're 100% sure of the KO. NOT character kill- KO.
Health ensures she can never be used outside of 5 bars unless absolutely necessary or just styling.
Only real tools against her are snapping her out which is a 50/50 at best, or killing her teammates fast enough so that she doesn't have 5 bars on switch in. Essentially a race against time.
Honestly death activation was a mistake, even though it fits the Phoenix theme. Totally removes any sense of danger of not getting DPH out once you build 5 bars (1 of which you already get- how convenient) and basically shifts the momentum to the Phoenix player since it's a catch 22. The whole phoenix metagame is basically centered around Dark Phoenix, if not as the star, then as insurance. That should be changed.
Combofiend played better, although I personally was rooting for Clockw0rk. His Phoenix was great, but exposed every single flaw about the character.
Can't use hyper unless you're 100% sure of the KO. NOT character kill- KO.
Health ensures she can never be used outside of 5 bars unless absolutely necessary or just styling.
Only real tools against her are snapping her out which is a 50/50 at best, or killing her teammates fast enough so that she doesn't have 5 bars on switch in. Essentially a race against time.
Honestly death activation was a mistake, even though it fits the Phoenix theme. Totally removes any sense of danger of not getting DPH out once you build 5 bars (1 of which you already get- how convenient) and basically shifts the momentum to the Phoenix player since it's a catch 22. The whole phoenix metagame is basically centered around Dark Phoenix, if not as the star, then as insurance. That should be changed.
Sentinel has like 900k health. If that's not Capcom's way of labeling him a fem-bot, I don't know what is.Dahbomb said:
And as for Phoenix- I don't particularly care about losing to her and I don't think she's necessarily boring to watch, but I think she should be changed. If Dark Phoenix comes out and is played by a competent player, she wins 90% of the time (the other 10% being a major mess-up or luck). Sure it's not always easy to have her stay alive until she gets the five meters, but the opponent has to use up one meter to snap Phoenix in, actually hit her, and then basically gets one chance to combo her to death. If you drop your combo on me early, I'll just raw-tag my Phoenix out and you can't snap her back in until you build that meter again.
Honestly I'm 100% for keeping characters how they're designed- I liked pre-patched Sentinel, I like Ryu, and I like Captain America (and am even designing a team around those last two). However, Phoenix is honestly just a dumb character. It's not because she can take out a whole team. It's not because she's considered by most to be "easy mode." It's because once she becomes Dark Phoenix (probably lvl 3 X-factored), it's almost impossible to hit her. Meaning it's almost impossible to win against her because all you can do is block and that means that you'll either get hit by her mixup (fast overhead/low, front/back, with/without homing fireballs) or chipped to death by her specials (not even including hypers!). Like honestly, and I've said this before, one of the best ways to kill her (it seems) is to random her out. I don't know, maybe I'm missing something, but whenever I see a Dark Phoenix player lose, it's because they randomly got hit by something that shouldn't have hit them.
Ogrekiller
Member
SmokeMaxX said:
All that is true, but the real problem is how easy it is for them to get Dark Phoenix.
They start with 1 bar.
They get a combo on you- that's another in all likelihood.
They do an aerial exchange- that's even more.
Teammates die- builds even more thus teammates are disposable to an extent and are there to do as much damage as they can. Even OG Phoenix is disposable to an extent.
Once they get meter you can't get rid of it unless they slip up or explicitly choose to use i.
Once they do have 5 THEY ARE SET. The danger passes. There is no danger of them not getting dark phoenix unless they screw up or lose by time out. Activation by death is the biggest issue with dark Phoenix because there is absolutely no risk to the phoenix to the player once they get 5 bars- you can't get rid of their meter, and they are given free reign to do as they please because YOU are the one that triggers DPH activation at tht point NOT THEM.
Best way to prevent DPH at this point:
1: snapback to kill.
2: kill teammates so fast they dont build enough meter by dying, thus Phoenix comes in with around 3-3.5. Then go in for kill (aka CHIP HER OUT BEFORE SHE TOUCHES GROUND).
Both are risk/reward in their own right.
At least you can't build meter by running away and whiffing moves ala Storm in MVC2.
DryEyeRelief
Member
Some strategies against Phoenix:
1) Snap backs. I use plural here because normally 1 snap back isn't enough against a good Phoenix player. It may take 3-4 but even that many snap backs will give you the match if you finish off Phoenix before 5 bars.
2) Kill the entire team before she reaches 5 bars. Not going to happen very often but you should know that a team playing Phoenix is some what crippled because they can't use hyper meters and X Factor. This is possible if you catch both of those characters in one combo. You should however NEVER use X Factor early against a Phoenix team unless it is being used to kill Phoenix pre-5 bars.
3) Save up X Factor and hyper meter bar for the Dark Phoenix fight. Probably the most stable strategy after snap back. Basically what you do is you fight normally and conserve your X Factor/hyper meter (you should have 3 to fight against DP). When she transforms, just hold back and block. One must realize that as soon as a Phoenix player dies and transforms, they are immediately going to X Factor and going to go on the full offense. Put this to good use, they will do the mix up/teleport and as soon as they do catch them with the X Factor block cancel and hit her with a super. She will never have her own X Factor to counter this. LVL3 hypers do the trick the best but some quick LVL1s can be used too if they are fast enough.
4) Team built around anti-Phoenix strategy. Some characters are better at handling Phoenix than others. If you fight against a Phoenix team, revert to your anti-Phoenix team. These include characters with invincible hypers/moves to deal with the Dark Phoenix rushdown. Of course this team must also conserve its X Factor and hyper meter for the eventual showdown. This can also include characters who can kill her when she comes in from just pure chip damage.
Best way to fight Phoenix is: Have an anti-Phoenix team always ready. Use it against a Phoenix player, snap her in and try to combo her. Keep trying to do this until she gets up to 4 bars then stop. Then revert to plan B which is to start saving up stock with your Hyper meter and X Factor for the DP showdown. Wait for her to transform and X Factor and then counter her rushdown with X Factor on block with hyper.
1) Snap backs. I use plural here because normally 1 snap back isn't enough against a good Phoenix player. It may take 3-4 but even that many snap backs will give you the match if you finish off Phoenix before 5 bars.
2) Kill the entire team before she reaches 5 bars. Not going to happen very often but you should know that a team playing Phoenix is some what crippled because they can't use hyper meters and X Factor. This is possible if you catch both of those characters in one combo. You should however NEVER use X Factor early against a Phoenix team unless it is being used to kill Phoenix pre-5 bars.
3) Save up X Factor and hyper meter bar for the Dark Phoenix fight. Probably the most stable strategy after snap back. Basically what you do is you fight normally and conserve your X Factor/hyper meter (you should have 3 to fight against DP). When she transforms, just hold back and block. One must realize that as soon as a Phoenix player dies and transforms, they are immediately going to X Factor and going to go on the full offense. Put this to good use, they will do the mix up/teleport and as soon as they do catch them with the X Factor block cancel and hit her with a super. She will never have her own X Factor to counter this. LVL3 hypers do the trick the best but some quick LVL1s can be used too if they are fast enough.
4) Team built around anti-Phoenix strategy. Some characters are better at handling Phoenix than others. If you fight against a Phoenix team, revert to your anti-Phoenix team. These include characters with invincible hypers/moves to deal with the Dark Phoenix rushdown. Of course this team must also conserve its X Factor and hyper meter for the eventual showdown. This can also include characters who can kill her when she comes in from just pure chip damage.
Best way to fight Phoenix is: Have an anti-Phoenix team always ready. Use it against a Phoenix player, snap her in and try to combo her. Keep trying to do this until she gets up to 4 bars then stop. Then revert to plan B which is to start saving up stock with your Hyper meter and X Factor for the DP showdown. Wait for her to transform and X Factor and then counter her rushdown with X Factor on block with hyper.
I would actually say he has the best Ammy too. Definitely more versatile than Wong's Ammy. Wong's innate ability to block at the right times and hit confirm on reaction is what makes his Ammy good, otherwise, Clockw0rk's Ammy with a beast even whilst conserving meter.Dahbomb said:
I'm still not seeing the big purpose of the slow supers in this game outside of DHCing. They barely last any consequential amount of time, and I've barely every seen them used to start a combo aside from if you have horrible, horrible blocking.Dahbomb said:
I guess the Ammy infinite with the slow super is kinda useful, but burning a full meter on that still makes me kinda on the edge about it's usefulness when that meter could go elsewhere.
Chris G basically kills off a character with Ammy, turns on Slow and then tags into Wesker. When the character comes in he is in slow mode and he can easily be crossed up and mixed up by Wesker (multiple times) as he is floating down to the floor.
In this game where the difference between a character dead and winning the match is who gets the first hit in, you are going to see more people using this slow to get the upper hand in match ups. Something like Magneto vs Wesker becomes a non-issue when that Mag player is slowed the fuck down. Or even a mirror match in which the difference between Yipes' Wesker and Chris' Wesker boiled down to ChrisG setting up the Slow and allowing his Wesker to get in that first hit.
It has worked with Ryu too as he can pressure the opponent and get in that overhead much easier due to the slower blocking. Then he X Factors the overhead and kills the character (which is always the 2nd character that Ryu kills).
In this game where the difference between a character dead and winning the match is who gets the first hit in, you are going to see more people using this slow to get the upper hand in match ups. Something like Magneto vs Wesker becomes a non-issue when that Mag player is slowed the fuck down. Or even a mirror match in which the difference between Yipes' Wesker and Chris' Wesker boiled down to ChrisG setting up the Slow and allowing his Wesker to get in that first hit.
It has worked with Ryu too as he can pressure the opponent and get in that overhead much easier due to the slower blocking. Then he X Factors the overhead and kills the character (which is always the 2nd character that Ryu kills).
Karsticles
Member
What glitch was that?mike ross proves why I think gamma crush is the best hyper ever, so satisfying when you land it. too bad the double crush glitch isn't in mvc3.
Haha, you really think you should be able to infinite a character by spamming f.H with Wesker?
In general, slower characters have easier missions.
Predictable just means being unpredictable has a great effect!
It's not bad lag, it's 100% prone until the ground is reached. I would be fine with Flight just being an escape tool if he could air dash at roughly Thor's speed.
I am looking forward to this.
I ran Dormammu/Sentinel/Doom for the first 3 weeks of this game; it's amazing at killing bad players, but it makes you sloppy because Hidden Missiles does so much of the work for you.
That's the general sensation I get whenever I drop Dormammu for a bit: "wow, this is so much easier".
Dante is a 9, Zero is a 4, and I stopped reading.
They open up a lot of combos, but I think the big purpose of Ammy's slow is to be able to burn a lot of meter to ensure a kill if she needs to - there's just nothing you can do but block for a while. All of the utility hypers are essentially ways to ensure, if you play your cards right, that you will get a full combo off.
America's Favorite combo isn't Wesker's X Factor gun loop.
It's any combo into OTG Low Gun shot xx X Factor Cancel xx LVL 3 Hyper for the character kill.
Fuck the gun loop, that's the worst shit ever. America's Favorite combo on the other hand is mad hype because I have never seen anyone survive that.
Also can anyone confirm which is the most damaging LVL1 hyper in the game? I think it's Phoenix's LVL1 hyper or Hulk's Gamma Crush. Dark Phoenix doesn't count, otherwise it would be her's.
ClakeyD is the only player ever who makes use of Tron outside of that assist. SO FUCKING GOOD. And that team synergy with She Hulk was sexy as hell. Hit confirming Beacon Bomb with the She Hulk assist from FULL SCREEN... that shit was HYPE AS FUCK.
Clockwork should start using Phoenix as second character and just act like Dark Phoenix doesn't exist. Start with Ammy, Throw into DHC glitch Healing Shield combo and Phoenix Rage for the kill. Phoenix Rage does a ton of damage and if you see an assist popping up throw that shit out and X Factor Phoenix Rage for the free character kill. Phoenix with Hidden Missiles and Cold Shots will be good and she can keep using the Healing shield because of the lock down.
If I were any skillful I would try it out, always wanted to do it but I don't have the skills yet. Too scared as well but it IS feasible.
gamma crush does close to 400k+ damage, pretty sure that's it. granted, it only does the damage if you catch them with the first hit.
the double gamma crush glitch was in MvC2 where you used an assist to lift them into the air, and activated gamma crush without touching them on your way up. he'd then bring the rock down on you, and if done correctly, did 2x damage because of how the damage was distributed between the explosion and the ramming of the rock.
the double gamma crush glitch was in MvC2 where you used an assist to lift them into the air, and activated gamma crush without touching them on your way up. he'd then bring the rock down on you, and if done correctly, did 2x damage because of how the damage was distributed between the explosion and the ramming of the rock.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Gamma Crush is 403k, Phoenix Rage in Dark Phoenix mode is 383k. if I'm reading that right.
Alright just checked it and yeah Gamma Crush is the higher of those two. It's over 400,000, that's almost as much as most LVL3's! Dark Phoenix has a bit over 380,000.
But in fact we are all wrong... the highest is actually MODOK! LVL9 Understanding Hyper Psionic Blaster does 441,000 damage!!!
But in fact we are all wrong... the highest is actually MODOK! LVL9 Understanding Hyper Psionic Blaster does 441,000 damage!!!
"God's Beard!"
Member
Dahbomb said:
That's a lvl9 hyper combo.
JeTmAn81
Member
Gamma Crush is basically a level 3 combo in terms of damage, it's one of the things I love about Hulk. Landing that sucker is so satisfying. Gotta work on the transition from an air knockdown (special) into popping them up with Gamma Wave immediately on landing and then hitting the Crush in the corner. That's a great combo to see pulled off.
sixteen-bit
Member
Lets hope so. That AE replay feature is so boss.Dahbomb said:
"God's Beard!"
Member
I'm actually pretty psyched for Oni.
sixteen-bit
Member
Yeah, he looks rad.God's Beard said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7M2KU8xGQk
This video really changed my mind about him.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I wonder if f+FP is special cancelable.
- Status