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[Prototype-03]

MVC3 is a much more forgiving than MVC2. It doesn't have stuff like guard breaks on in coming characters or snap backs leading into an indefinite juggleable state. It was a brutal environment with all the tech traps, reset situations, infinites and of course AHVBs.

I think I'm okay with not having to choose to get hit by blocking or not blocking when I come in and not having (too many) infinites. I wouldn't call it forgiving though, just a little more fair. The tech traps and resets will come as the game unfolds though. There's already she-hulk/tron traps so I'm sure we'll see a lot more.

 

[Grecco]

Ranked can be frustrating. I think that's why I've only played 120 matches or so, compared to my several thousand Player matches. Stop-motion lag, shameless taunting after wins (shouldn't bother me, but it does... I can't explain it), rage quits abound. Oh well, got to 5th Lord so far. I've been busting out 1 Rank Up per night of Ranked. Each night is taking longer and longer, though.

Also, it seems like Zero and Taskmaster are the go to characters right now. I face them every other match, it seems. I'm pretty sure my worst matchup right now is Zero, so I've got to learn to defend against him better. I find that I have to be super patient against Zero because I don't know what's punishable for him. So far, it seems most effective to zone him out since his normals seem to beat everything up close. If anyone has any tips, let me know. I'm using Dante (WS)/Wesker(LS)/Morrigan(SB) (been using since Day 1).

Zoneing. Zeros zoning game sucks, and some of his teleports are punishable. You probably wont beat his air H up close so its run away and zone.

 

[Alucrid]

Just for you guys...

The Online Warrior 'Assist Me' Dr. Doom Uncensored

Fucking genie man. :lol

 

[Dahbomb]

I think I'm okay with not having to choose to get hit by blocking or not blocking when I come in and not having (too many) infinites. I wouldn't call it forgiving though, just a little more fair. The tech traps and resets will come as the game unfolds though. There's already she-hulk/tron traps so I'm sure we'll see a lot more.

LOL me too.

I remember when I first got guard broken by the Sentinel mouth beam. Obviously at first I didn't know what happened and thought I had pressed a button coming in but he did it to me every time. That was a real salty moment for me.

LOL WHAT! Dante can activate the DHC glitch off of Dance Macabre!

MIND BLOWN!!! Is this shit documented on SRK?

 

[Karsticles]

That said, I don't think that anyone that played high level MVC2 would say that it's harder to block in MVC3. At least, not currently. Watching the vid below was painful (as MVC2 did not age well after 3 came out,) but it should set a pretty good example despite MSP mirrors being a horrible thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOcVU-C6ViE

my god is that ugly.. I think you have to really be playing the game to appreciate it. just watching, especially with MVC3 around.. you're more likely to make judgments that are inherently based on how terrible it looks by comparison.

That video just looks so beautiful to me....

I think that MvC2 is less forgiving at high level play, but MvC3 is less forgiving overall. A simple mistake against a relatively fresh player can lead to the loss of a character in MvC3... not so much in MvC2.

Agreed.

I think I'm okay with not having to choose to get hit by blocking or not blocking when I come in and not having (too many) infinites. I wouldn't call it forgiving though, just a little more fair. The tech traps and resets will come as the game unfolds though. There's already she-hulk/tron traps so I'm sure we'll see a lot more.

Yeah, I'm fine with that too. Personally, I feel like MvC3 with a toned-down X-Factor and TACs is the perfect game (minus the netcode).

 

[Dahbomb]

Personally, I feel like MvC3 with a toned-down X-Factor and TACs is the perfect game (minus the netcode).

Agreed 100%.

Also I can't find any documentation of it on SRK about Dance Macabre as a DHC glitch starter. I would make a video of it but I don't have anything to record it with.

Too bad Dance Macabre is like a 1 frame input to get it off. I have sort of figured out when to do it with Reverb Shock. Have to double tap it to make it a bit easier.

 

[Ferrio]

Oh don't take away TACs! (How will I do my shehulk bnb?!?!)

 

[Dahbomb]

Not saying to take them away but tone them down and countering should allow you to perform a combo.

Right now TAC gives HUGE reward for very little risk for most situations, especially as an opener.

And it seems that I was not the first person to figure out, it was actually used in a match in fact. SRK hasn't updated their DHC glitch page with it.

Here's the video. Combo comes a bit later into the game.

Oh man I thought I was on the verge of an awesome discovery here! Still feels good to have found something in the lab without knowing about it in advance.

 

[Prototype-03]

Oh don't take away TACs! (How will I do my shehulk bnb?!?!)

I don't get that TAC. I swear I'm countering all the time but I only got it off once.

 

[Ferrio]

I don't get that TAC. I swear I'm countering all the time but I only got it off once.

Can only counter it if I fuck it up and do it too high off the ground. Otherwise there isn't enough air time for it to register.

 

[ApolloJoh]

LOL WHAT! Dante can activate the DHC glitch off of Dance Macabre!

MIND BLOWN!!! Is this shit documented on SRK?

Yeah, I linked a video earlier of a Japanese player doing it online.

Blew my mind when I first saw it too haha.

 

[Prototype-03]

Can only counter it if I fuck it up and do it too high off the ground. Otherwise there isn't enough air time for it to register.

That's stupid! Do another combo where I feel like I'm in control.

Yeah, I linked a video earlier of a Japanese player doing it online.

Blew my mind when I first saw it too haha.

A REASON TO USE THAT MOVE!


Also, Apollo's avatar>>>>> Creepy Peach Ferrio's avatar

 

[Alucrid]

The fuck is a TAC?

 

[Prototype-03]

The fuck is a TAC?

Team Aerial Combo

 

[Ferrio]

That's stupid! Do another combo where I feel like I'm in control.



A REASON TO USE THAT MOVE!


Also, Apollo's avatar>>>>> Creepy Peach Ferrio's avatar

Bottom half even creepier.

 

[Alucrid]

Team Aerial Combo

Oooh...once again I completely forget about them.

 

[Karsticles]

Oh don't take away TACs! (How will I do my shehulk bnb?!?!)

I don't want them to go away, just change a bit. There are three things I don't like about TACs:
1) They're random. I hate random. If random is a core part of a character, that's not too bad, since I can just choose not to play as that character; Hsien-ko's item toss doesn't bother me. Core gameplay mechanics being random bothers me.
2) You get too much for pulling one off. A safe character swap is a big deal in Marvel. People pay two bars of meter just to safely DHC a character in all the time. So, actually gaining meter while getting that safe tag seems a bit much to me.
3) You have to mash to counter them (realistically, with a 15 frame window), which makes a lot of resets happen that shouldn't. When I play Tron Bonne, sometimes I mess up the basic launcher MMHS after her ground loop series, and my H whiffs. Afterward, my S spikes my opponent and starts a new combo, because they were mashing f.S the entire time to make sure I didn't TAC. It's kind of silly.

I'm not sure how to fix it, but all three of these would have to change for me to like it. As a core concept, I think it's really cool - whack someone off a wall and let your next character continue the combo. Neat concept, lots of fun, opens up new levels of strategy. Much like X-Factor. Also, much like X-Factor, the implementation is poor.

Off the top of my head, I would suggest this:
1) You can only TAC in one direction.
2) The TAC command is qcf.S. Nothing else.
3) Your opponent has 15 frames to hit S in response to counter your TAC.
4) Success lets your next character come in, with no special meter gain; maybe the hitstun gets reset, though.

This solves 1) and 2) for me; 3) probably would resolve itself with fixed netcode, but maybe the frames could be extended to 20. You don't want to make it too easy to counter.

Also, Apollo's avatar>>>>> Creepy Peach Ferrio's avatar

Agreed. Is that Tsubaki?

 

[Dahbomb]

Yeah, I linked a video earlier of a Japanese player doing it online.

Blew my mind when I first saw it too haha.

Fucking Japanese, I wonder what technology they have up their sleeve. These guys put Spider Man on the map.

A REASON TO USE THAT MOVE!

It's the ultimate "I AM FUCKING STYLIN ON YOU BITCH" move. Totally useless move outside of this new found DHC glitch starter trick.

2) The TAC command is qcf.S. Nothing else.

Dante wouldn't be able to use his Air Raid move then.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Can only counter it if I fuck it up and do it too high off the ground. Otherwise there isn't enough air time for it to register.

There are uncounterable TACs?

yeah haggar is definitely the biggest liability on my team. when my taskmaster gets killed i am 50 percent less effective. although i'm surprised how many good players can't handle the pipe or the double lariat when i'm down to only him. gonna start a session right now so i'll check back later and tell you how i did.

I had some fun Haggar comebacks in ranked matches last night. You're right, a whole lot of people fall for the lariat and pipe. It's probably scrubby of me to be throwing out random lariats when they get close, but I can follow up the lariat with a super, then a hoodlum launcher, air combo, and wild swing for pretty good damage. In one match last night I caught 2 characters in a lariat, caught them both in the followup super, DHC'd into Zero's Sougenmu, then realized "oh shit, I could have done Zero's level 3 instead "

And I'm getting used to starting combos off the air pipe, generally by doing s.M > S or hoodlum launcher L after landing. I just have to remember not to go for a relaunch since the initial air pipe uses up my ground bounce.

smurfx, are you on XBL? We should compare Haggars.

 

[enzo_gt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5yevx7AIQk

Incredible. David Caruso is Professor X confirmed.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

I don't want them to go away, just change a bit. There are three things I don't like about TACs:

3) You have to mash to counter them (realistically, with a 15 frame window), which makes a lot of resets happen that shouldn't. When I play Tron Bonne, sometimes I mess up the basic launcher MMHS after her ground loop series, and my H whiffs. Afterward, my S spikes my opponent and starts a new combo, because they were mashing f.S the entire time to make sure I didn't TAC. It's kind of silly.

On the plus side, I was mashing down+S as Hulk to try and counter in a recent match, the opponent dropped the air combo, so my S smacked them to the ground - and there was enough time for me to fall from basically the top of the stage, launch off the ground bounce, and do a full Hulk air combo.

 

[GuardianE]

Zoneing. Zeros zoning game sucks, and some of his teleports are punishable. You probably wont beat his air H up close so its run away and zone.

Yeah, I seem to beat him most of the time if I just zone him out, but I didn't know if there was some hole in his offense that I was simply overlooking. What teleports are punishable? He seems to be able to go from teleport straight to attack with little recovery.

Agreed 100%.

Also I can't find any documentation of it on SRK about Dance Macabre as a DHC glitch starter. I would make a video of it but I don't have anything to record it with.

Too bad Dance Macabre is like a 1 frame input to get it off. I have sort of figured out when to do it with Reverb Shock. Have to double tap it to make it a bit easier.

Any tips? I definitely can't reliably get Dance Macabre off of Reverb Shock. Anything I should be looking out for, or a certain number of hits to begin tapping? If I could get this down, it would completely change my game. When do you cancel into Devil Trigger... during the pole spin?

Comboing into Grapple Hook is way too difficult for me to do practically, especially online.

 

[Dahbomb]

Any tips? I definitely can't reliably get Dance Macabre off of Reverb Shock. Anything I should be looking out for, or a certain number of hits to begin tapping? If I could get this down, it would completely change my game. Comboing into Grapple Hook is way to difficult for me to do practically, especially online.

I listen for a particular audio cue then tap it. You have to do it pretty late into the move, like 5 hits into it. There is like a two part sound in the Reverb shock just after those 5 hits where you have to press the button.

This is probably even more impractical than the Grapple unless you get it down perfect. I don't mess with just frame inputs in real match situations, this is mostly cool in the lab stuff for me.

 

[GuardianE]

I listen for a particular audio cue then tap it. You have to do it pretty late into the move, like 5 hits into it. There is like a two part sound in the Reverb shock just after those 5 hits where you have to press the button.

This is probably even more impractical than the Grapple unless you get it down perfect. I don't mess with just frame inputs in real match situations, this is mostly cool in the lab stuff for me.

Thanks for the help.

Well, the difference is, you're lots of damage if you attempt to cancel into grapple and screw it up. If you manage to do a huge combo into the grapple setup, those will generally require a lot of jumpcancels as well, which are easy to screw up online.

All of Dante's easier combos can end with Reverb Shock. If you can get the timing down to even halfway consistency, it might be worth it.

 

[Karsticles]

Dante wouldn't be able to use his Air Raid move then.

Make his Aid Raid a qcb motion then - done.

On the plus side, I was mashing down+S as Hulk to try and counter in a recent match, the opponent dropped the air combo, so my S smacked them to the ground - and there was enough time for me to fall from basically the top of the stage, launch off the ground bounce, and do a full Hulk air combo.

Haha. I can't say I haven't ever benefited similarly, but it's still a bad mechanic!

 

[Prototype-03]

Make his Aid Raid a qcb motion then - done.


Haha. I can't say I haven't ever benefited similarly, but it's still a bad mechanic!

qcb motion is flight

 

[Dahbomb]

Make his Aid Raid a qcb motion then - done.

QCB+S is his flight and not just his flight a lot of character's flight mode too.

Thanks for the help.

Well, the difference is, you're lots of damage if you attempt to cancel into grapple and screw it up. If you manage to do a huge combo into the grapple setup, those will generally require a lot of jumpcancels as well, which are easy to screw up online.

All of Dante's easier combos can end with Reverb Shock. If you can get the timing down to even halfway consistency, it might be worth it.

I am pretty sure you can do Grapple after OTG Cold Shower (f+HHH), Stinger (f+H) Bold Cancel, Grapple. It's not that hard but yeah most likely easier to mess up online.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Zoneing. Zeros zoning game sucks, and some of his teleports are punishable. You probably wont beat his air H up close so its run away and zone.

As a Zero player I am also interested in hearing about anti-Zero tactics.

As far as zoning, Zero's fully charged Hyper Blaster beats just about everything, and with Sougenmu he can do a decent lockdown by spamming Hadangeki and Hyper Blaster. I get punished hard when I try to do this against characters like Dorm though.

 

[Prototype-03]

QCB+S is his flight and not his flight a lot of character's flight mode.

His flight too

edit: Ammy uses qcf+S motion too

 

[GuardianE]

I don't have as much a problem with TAC's alone as when they're used with the DHC glitch (while I am trying to learn Dante's DHC glitch, heheh).

I fought someone who went from Air Combo->TAC->DHC Glitch->Air Combo -> relaunch Air Combo = Dead character. I know that touch of death combos are the name of the game, but when my character lives or dies depending on a dice roll, it's pretty stupid.

As a Zero player I am also interested in hearing about anti-Zero tactics.

As far as zoning, Zero's fully charged Hyper Blaster beats just about everything, and with Sougenmu he can do a decent lockdown by spamming Hadangeki and Hyper Blaster. I get punished hard when I try to do this against characters like Dorm though.

Well, for my team in particular, I've had success with Wesker's jump gun and Dante's Air Play, both mixed with various assists and ground moves. Dante can charge his Air Play so that it eats most projectiles and gives solid cover. This is prety reliable as long as Zero doesn't have 3 levels. The goal is to chip Zero while I wait for him to screw up, and then kill him in one combo with his puny health. Of course, depending on Zero's assist partners, this may or may not work.

I am pretty sure you can do Grapple after OTG Cold Shower (f+HHH), Stinger (f+H) Bold Cancel, Grapple. It's not that hard but yeah most likely easier to mess up online.

Yeah, I can't really get it online. In fact, I can hardly get it offline. I always do the grapple too early so that it whiffs.

Is the cancel into Dance Macabre really 1 frame?

 

[Karsticles]

qcb motion is flight

Ah, that's right; definitely tired when I suggest that, since all of my characters have flight mode. Well, I suppose it could be RDP motion then. It's not important what the particular motion is, just that I don't think it's good for it to just be direction + S, and it should be one motion; there are plenty of options.

Heck, since X-Factor can't be done in the air, they could even put TAC's command onto pushing LMHS simultaneously.

 

[RS4-]

TACs are fucking dumb the way they're implemented in Marvel 3.

 

[Dahbomb]

Is the cancel into Dance Macabre really 1 frame?

I don't have a frame counter on me LOL but I have heard that it is and I can only get it off like 1/5 times anyway. What I do is that I do Reverb Shock then I do S when I am supposed to do the Crazy dance and then do HH real fast. If I mess up Crazy Dance, I can at least continue the combo or keep myself safe with Fireworks.

 

[GuardianE]

I don't have a frame counter on me LOL but I have heard that it is and I can only get it off like 1/5 times anyway. What I do is that I do Reverb Shock then I do S when I am supposed to do the Crazy dance and then do HH real fast. If I mess up Crazy Dance, I can at least continue the combo or keep myself safe with Fireworks.

Ah, that's smart. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Parallax Scroll]

To follow up my previous post, obviously Zero doesn't want to stay at long range, but he has tools to help him get in against zoners. Air Hyper Blaster > Raikousen L gets him in real quick.

 

[Grecco]

Yeah, I seem to beat him most of the time if I just zone him out, but I didn't know if there was some hole in his offense that I was simply overlooking. What teleports are punishable? He seems to be able to go from teleport straight to attack with little recovery.




Any tips? I definitely can't reliably get Dance Macabre off of Reverb Shock. Anything I should be looking out for, or a certain number of hits to begin tapping? If I could get this down, it would completely change my game. When do you cancel into Devil Trigger... during the pole spin?

Comboing into Grapple Hook is way too difficult for me to do practically, especially online.

Zero simply sucks at zoning. Hes ok if you spam hadenki during the clone hyper but other than that its his biggest weakness.

 

[Dahbomb]

It really depends on the Zero player. Some like to rush it down and only use the Blaster for random punishes or to extend combos. Other play a much more zoning type Zero and even use the Sogenmu hyper to spam projectiles. Ideally a Zero player is always looking to rushdown and find an opening or mix you up. So he's going to be doing some unsafe stuff to look out for and punish.

 

[GuardianE]

To follow up my previous post, obviously Zero doesn't want to stay at long range, but he has tools to help him get in against zoners. Air Hyper Blaster > Raikousen gets him in real quick.

Push block, teleport away. Again, it's not foolproof, and I'm looking for a more consistent strategy, but it's one that's worked well for me against what I consider to be pretty good Zeros. His range game looks like his weakness, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have tools around zoning. It means that he has trouble fighting from a distance, and it's my job to keep him there.

It really depends on the Zero player. Some like to rush it down and only use the Blaster for random punishes or to extend combos. Other play a much more zoning type Zero and even use the Sogenmu hyper to spam projectiles. Ideally a Zero player is always looking to rushdown and find an opening or mix you up. So he's going to be doing some unsafe stuff to look out for and punish.

I've seen both. And a good Zero player can switch styles if they need to, but turning Zero into a zoning character is a last ditch desperation move or something to be used against specific characters. His strength is pretty obviously close range.

 

[ApolloJoh]

Also, Apollo's avatar>>>>> Creepy Peach Ferrio's avatar

Aww, thanks.

Is that Tsubaki?

Sure is.

It's the ultimate "I AM FUCKING STYLIN ON YOU BITCH" move. Totally useless move outside of this new found DHC glitch starter trick.

Yeah pretty much, lol

Any tips? I definitely can't reliably get Dance Macabre off of Reverb Shock. Anything I should be looking out for, or a certain number of hits to begin tapping? If I could get this down, it would completely change my game. When do you cancel into Devil Trigger... during the pole spin?

Comboing into Grapple Hook is way too difficult for me to do practically, especially online.

What I did is first see/hear when Dante does Fireworks after Reverb/Jet Stream 'cause it's the same time when you have to press S for Dance Macabre to come out. Don't ask about Revolver since the timing is sooooo weird, lol.

I can do it online fine (sorta) if there isn't much lag involved and fairly often offline.

About Grapple, comboing into it involves a little timing.

Midscreen: If you input it too fast, the grapple won't grab the character after the Stinger. If you do it too slow, missles come out instead. What you have to do is do QCF+H and shortly after, another one. What you hear instead of saying "Here you go!", you hear the beginning of Hysteric when he says "Gotcha now!" It's all about the audio cues (at least for me lol)

In the corner, it depends on how high the opponent is when you do the Stinger. Too high, it whiffs and it requires the same timing as doing it midscreen.

 

[GuardianE]

That I did is first see/hear when Dante does Fireworks after Reverb/Jet Stream 'cause it's the same time when you have to press S for Dance Macabre to come out. Don't ask about Revolver since the timing is sooooo weird, lol.

I can do it online fine (sorta) if there isn't much lag involved and fairly often offline.

About Grapple, comboing into it involves a little timing.

Midscreen: If you input it too fast, the grapple won't grab the character after the Stinger. If you do it too slow, missles come out instead. What you have to do is do QCF+H and shortly after, another one. What you hear instead of saying "Here you go!", you hear the beginning of Hysteric when he says "Gotcha now!" It's all about the audio cues (at least for me lol)

In the corner, it depends on how high the opponent is when you do the Stinger. Too high, it whiffs and it requires the same timing as doing it midscreen.

Thanks for the Crazy Dance tips. It'll really help. I never really bothered with the timing of it since it was mostly a worthless move (though, so so awesome). The now practical DHC trick will make me more motivated to integrate it into my game.

I just can't get the timing down midscreen for the grapple. :\ I'll keep trying, though. Perseverence! I'll have to train myself to slow my inputs for it.

<3 your avvy too, btw. I didn't recognize her at first.

 

[Prototype-03]

Sure is.

Can't wait for BBCS2. Honestly, I don't know if I'll pick up MvC3 after the patch comes out.

 

[ApolloJoh]

Can't wait for BBCS2. Honestly, I don't know if I'll pick up MvC3 after the patch comes out.

Lol same. Probably will play MvC3 every now and then but definitely not as much as I do now when the patch comes.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I too am looking forward to the CSII patch, but I already kinda fell off Marvel :/

 

[Prototype-03]

I too am looking forward to the CSII patch, but I already kinda fell off Marvel :/

JAYOKU HOUTENJIINN!!! YAY IT GOT NERFED!!!

 

[Ferrio]

Screw that, MK9 time. Where I'm guessing lag won't matter hah.

 

[Karsticles]

Can't wait for BBCS2. Honestly, I don't know if I'll pick up MvC3 after the patch comes out.

I will, because MvC3 has two things for me that no other game really does:
1) Team building strategy fun.
2) Dormammu.

JAYOKU HOUTENJIINN!!! YAY IT GOT NERFED!!!

Which move is that? I just bought BBCS a few weeks ago.

Spoiler

I am terrible and forget that I have to recover manually. Sometimes I just lay on the floor getting hit over and over before I remember.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Which move is that?

It's Hazama's BIONIC ARM
Except it doesn't go full screen and lost some inful so it trades alot more in CS2

still a sick reversal
IB -> Jayoku is like the only combo I know, lol

 

[GuardianE]

I'm going to have to completely relearn Litchi when CS2 patch hits. Totally worth it.

I still haven't reached level 50. That's the last achievement I need, I think.

 

[ApolloJoh]

I'm going to have to completely relearn Litchi when CS2 patch hits. Totally worth it.

It will be.

 

[Karsticles]

I still can't even figure out which character is really "me". Each character has such a massive learning curve, and I can't really "sample" each one like you can in MvC3.