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Marvel vs Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds |OT2| Sold exclusively at Dollar Tree
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
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kirblar said:
Well, that's how Sent was pre-patch because the way people played then wasn't very refined. The dog, for sure, can avoid and kill pre-patch Sent easily, especially with how people play now. The robot's offense relies on random command grab or random hit and it's too simple of an approach to bother the dog.
He doesn't have tridash or fucked up mix ups and his damage isn't even impressive by comparison to a good number of the cast. Almost every character can do 600-700 with meter and some without, so I guess I never really got the complaints. At 900, his health seems awfully low for a character of his caliber.
"Zoning is a tactic in 2D fighters usually used at mid-range or far mid-range, the purpose of which is to out-prioritize your enemy's moves. The idea is to space yourself so that you are in a position to respond to or punish any entry angle or attack of your opponent's. Ideally, you can use certain pokes and attacks to beat your opponent's attacks, punish his advances or jumps, and hopefully shut down his offensive options, while landing hits. In attempting to zone, it is important to know the properties of your own attacks as well as the attacks of your opponent, in order to find the best move to use in countering your opponent's move. The ability to predict your opponent's next move, and having good reflexes to react to that move, are also important."Ultimoo said:
It's near impossible to run in on the ground against Sent due to his armored Down-B legs. The reason you fight him at range (or force him to block and overhead him) is because if you try to get in, he's going to react by swatting you down.
Are you suggesting the game be balanced on a non-competitive level? Because that's another whole can of worms. Catering to the casual is one thing, but revolving game balance around casual is another.
If we're going by this definition, Zero/Dante/Taskmaster are all zoning characters (when not using projectiles). Anyone with high priority can be considered a zoning character then.
kirblar said:
If we're going by this definition, Zero/Dante/Taskmaster are all zoning characters (when not using projectiles). Anyone with high priority can be considered a zoning character then.
No, I'm saying that Sentinel's design (monster damage, short combos, relatively easy to play) makes him a great "Anyone can win" character to allow lesser-skilled players the occasional win. The design is great. The problem was that the HP made it so while playing against him, you'd have to make a LOT more correct decisions than your opponent. Now, that ratio, while still in Sent's favor, isn't nearly as oppressive.Ultimoo said:
The argument that Sent is broken to the casual crowd is silly to me. Up front, there are a lot more characters that immediately destroy people with a low understanding of the game.
Is the Sent hate people just bandwagoning from MvC2 or is it the super armor? The fact that you actually have to block against him? eh whatevs
Is the Sent hate people just bandwagoning from MvC2 or is it the super armor? The fact that you actually have to block against him? eh whatevs
Professor Beef
Banned
kirblar said:
GhostRidah
Member
This is godlike
I'm not arguing he was broken or IS broken to the casual crowd. I actually think he's aimed AT them to let them randomly win matches.rance said:
The issue was, with the HP he used to have, you had to play perfect for a LONG time to get rid of the robot, while your opponent just needed one opening to eviscerate you. The problem was there in high level play as well, but it would snowball as you went down the curve, making it a bigger and bigger problem the worse the players involved were. It's why he induced such rage in people. Now that the HP's been nerfed, you don't hear a peep about him, aside from the X-Factor issues.
Many would argue though that they didn't solve the problem of making Sentinel balanced, they just nerfed his health, making him an awkwardly sized glass cannon.kirblar said:
Was his health really the problem, or was his damage output, hyper armor normals, and S class lvl 3 x-factor bonuses with long range chipping normals the problem?
iAmMaximus
Member
Conceited said:
dat taskmaster. o.o
I'm with you in thinking that 1.3 was too much. A slightly lower level Hulk health would have been fine, but less than a mil is pure silliness. The robot is a fantastic assist and a decent character, but totally not in the same league as Wolverine (same health group) when it comes to shitting all over someone's day.
He and Wesker should switch vitality ratings. While I'm at it, Wolverine can go to hell, bring him down to Mag health.
Dem jaggies. It looks great, but 1080p brings a certain sharpness that some people would not like. It probably doesn't help that I play fighting games on an Asus monitor and I sit fairly close to it.
He and Wesker should switch vitality ratings. While I'm at it, Wolverine can go to hell, bring him down to Mag health.
Kimosabae said:
Dem jaggies. It looks great, but 1080p brings a certain sharpness that some people would not like. It probably doesn't help that I play fighting games on an Asus monitor and I sit fairly close to it.
Ultimoo said:
I mean, it's probably a stupid question to those more tech-savvy, but I know the game isn't displaying in 1080p despite the dashboard options saying otherwise. To the best of my understanding, it's still displaying at 720p, but it looks noticeably better for some reason.
For context, I got a slim yesterday. I had my old 360 hooked up component.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Toski said:
I think the proof is in the pudding: it's anecdotal but tons of pro Sentinel players are still using him at full effectiveness in higher level matches, but the Noob Storm of Sentinel seems to have dried almost completely up.
In other words, noobs dropped him like a rotten tomato once they could no longer play lazy and make lots of mistakes while still surviving on health alone. Real Sentinel players don't seem to generally mind.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
all i hear is the musicGhostRidah said:This is godlike
Kaijima said:
Sent players did not drop him because he did not change fundamentally. It isn't an alarming nerf that needs to be addressed immediately, Sent is still Sent. That does not change the fact that he may have been nerfed too much considering who he is comparable to, vitality wise.
Standing and crouching H are still godlike online, especially at full screen with moderate to heavy input lag and characters who can't easily get around it.Kaijima said:
I still think the health reduction from the highest down to Spider-Man level was a bit too much. I think they should have reduced the lvl 3 x-factor for both damage and speed, lower health to 1.1 mil, and take off armor on cr. M, but it doesn't matter now anyhow.
My biggest gripe actually is how they give characters like C. Viper, Ammy, and Spencer various OTG/wall & ground bounce abilities which lead to meter building and big damage, but characters like Spider-Man and Cap don't have any ability to do anything after a hard knockdown. Hopefully this gets rectified in Super MvC3.
Professor Beef
Banned
Why not just make his lariat reflect projectiles while you're at it?!smurfx said:
Parallax Scroll
Banned
Now we're talking. Let's also give him a jetpack!Professor Beef said:Why not just make his lariat reflect projectiles while you're at it?!
Professor Beef
Banned
You can't solve all your problems with jetpacks!Parallax Scroll said:
dude haggar sucks as a character by himself. if they give fucken dante every god damn thing then capcom should give haggar at least one projectile. that or make him a little faster or make his dash quicker. the hoodlum launcher is nice but it would of been good if they gave him more wrestling type moves as well.Professor Beef said:Why not just make his lariat reflect projectiles while you're at it?!
Professor Beef
Banned
He's a grappler, though. Grapplers very rarely get projectiles, and in the off-chance that they do, it's usually something point-blank.smurfx said:
Professor Beef
Banned
Thor...well, Thor...um...>_>Ultimoo said:
He's still only one example.
SolarPowered
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Haggar could use something to make him viable on his own. Him and a handful of characters could use that kind of makeover. Spidey needs OTG options, Haggar needs something to help pressure runners, Hsien-Ko needs a new dash/better crossups, Arthur needs to stop losing his armor lol, and Sent needs a small healthboost(1 mil and not a point more)/x-factor nerf.
This game is just one patch(Spectator mode, balance fixes and player match damage/time options) away from being one of the most balanced and polished fighting games ever made in my opinion...
This game is just one patch(Spectator mode, balance fixes and player match damage/time options) away from being one of the most balanced and polished fighting games ever made in my opinion...
Professor Beef
Banned
This isn't Mortal Kombat where projectiles and teleports are handed out like candy, though!
I just like arguing against Haggar, lol.
SolarPowered
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Watching the wnf from the other day and viscant and combofiend are amazing haha.
haggars assist is fine the way it is. at the very least its very punishable if you anticipate it. freaking trons assist is almost as good as haggars and she doesn't take any damage when using it and her weird hit box makes it hard to punish her when you do anticipate her assist. she gets in and quickly gets out while haggars stays around for a bit and is a sitting duck. you can try but you are not likely to do much damage to tron if you catch her.
i actually don't have much trouble with trons assist since haggar goes right through her but its stupid that there is hardly any risk in her assist. haggars assist can be beat if you know what you are doing. i often take haggars out when playing against them because i know how to punish it.Ultimoo said:
Karsticles
Member
He felt balanced.
There's too much to watch - 7 hours? Do you have a timestamp for me?
Everything is a bad matchup for Sentinel when he's not in level 3 X-Factor.
I'm semi-joking. Can anyone think of non-crap character (basically, Hsien-ko) that Sentinel just runs all over for free like several characters do against him?
At the cost of having the slowest attacks in the game, all of which are easily punished on a whiff.
Huh?
Sort of. Less than 2 seconds in flight mode kind of kills it. If he had 5 seconds of flight, then I'd agree, but the startup on his slight is pretty huge, and he's still a massive target. He's the only flight character that absolutely needs to flight to move around reasonably. Every other flyer, IIRC, has an 8-way air dash. So, among flying characters, he's actually the least mobile, but is massive, and has low health.
While the other heavies might not have a lot of mobility options, they're all still fast movers. The only characters that are so slow that it's noteworthy in this game are Arthur and Hsien-ko.
So? You have to play differently against most characters in this game unless you play braindead rushdown, which most people who complain about Sentinel do. I never hear people say "Arthur really makes you change how you play", or "Haggar assist really makes you change how you play" as though they needed a nerf.
Ooooooooh. I wish you would have just said "I am arguing for the random scrubs out there that can't block". That would have saved me a lot of time and effort.
No balance changes, just bug fixes.
It's really hard to say. On one hand, he has more tools than Hulk does; he has hyper armor, he has a really nice assist, he has better projectiles, and he has flight. On the other hand, he's massive in a way no other character is. The truth is that it's just very difficult to gauge how important a character's height is in this game. Look at Amaterasu - can anyone say that she needs a health buff without cracking a knowing smile? Her hitbox is so "powerful" that she could have Phoenix health and still be a contender. A small hitbox is a powerful thing in this game.
Again, difficult to say categorically. The nerf came right after Justin Wong released the "how to beat Sentinel" video, and he got stomped all over by Amaterasu and Wolverine in tournaments. In other words, the nerf came right as people were figuring out that Sentinel wasn't as good as he appeared to be upon release. So, did people drop him because of the health nerf, or did they drop him because people started to figure him out? Personally, I stopped playing Sentinel a week before the health nerf, because everyone I played was smacking me around with instant overheads, and even with 1.3 million health, I was having trouble making him work on point against solid opponents.
I've picked him up again though, but he is frustrating as hell to work with on point. Justin Wong had it right: Sentinel did not need a nerf, X-Factor does.
Toski said:
Yes x100!
Won't happen, but I think Spidey needs an complete gameplay overhaul. he has so much potential to be a crazy-fun character, but they just kinda made him too shoto-eque in MSH and sticking w/ that kinda painted him into a corner for future games. The web-zip is a start to shake him up, but it's not enough. He would be so much fun and creative if they had started from scratch with him in MvC3. I don't think anyone who ever played him was married to his gameplay, but more because they loved the character and dealt with what they had to work with. Making him even more execution-heavy in MvC3, didn't help the matter. Hope in Super MvC3 they make some more radical changes.
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The Hulk also has a pretty good assist that is invincible for a good amount of time if I recall correctly.
I play against Sent enough to know that it would make for a better game if his X-factor was turned down and he had 100K extra health.
He could use that small buff to compensate for some of his other glaring flaws and it's still 300K less than his original health which is just right for a walking cannon like the bot. He is also a part of an extremely small number of characters who do need some buffs(some more than others obviously).Varjet said:
I play against Sent enough to know that it would make for a better game if his X-factor was turned down and he had 100K extra health.
Karsticles said:
:'(Karsticles said:
Why are we still talking about Sentinel? We have discussed that issue to death.
Sentinel is barely top 10 in this game and only in the top 15 due to the strength of his assist, high damage output and XF LVL3 shenanigans. The nerf exposed his weaknesses to the world, which put caution on how people used him as an assist and as a point character. The nerf wasn't a big deal but people playing Sentinel to top tier whore dropped him immediately. Now 90% of people use Sentinel to set up an offense with their other characters and then there are few people who like to use Sentinel up front with some back up.
Sentinel has a lot of bad match ups mostly against characters with some sort of anti-air move, zoning characters, pixie characters or runaway characters. He is sort of good against other heavy characters like Tron and Haggar though.
He doesn't require buffs at all, in fact I bet we will be seeing a general nerf to him after a GLOBAL X Factor LVL 3 nerf. Sentinel does what he is put in the game to do and that is he has a great assist to back up other characters and can come in a pinch to dish out heavy damage or fish for a comeback with LVL3 XF. If you want to play him on point you better have 2 very good assists backing him up and he will usually do good work. Sentinel still has a scary ability to kill teams/characters if the other person is caught sleeping.
Sentinel is barely top 10 in this game and only in the top 15 due to the strength of his assist, high damage output and XF LVL3 shenanigans. The nerf exposed his weaknesses to the world, which put caution on how people used him as an assist and as a point character. The nerf wasn't a big deal but people playing Sentinel to top tier whore dropped him immediately. Now 90% of people use Sentinel to set up an offense with their other characters and then there are few people who like to use Sentinel up front with some back up.
Sentinel has a lot of bad match ups mostly against characters with some sort of anti-air move, zoning characters, pixie characters or runaway characters. He is sort of good against other heavy characters like Tron and Haggar though.
He doesn't require buffs at all, in fact I bet we will be seeing a general nerf to him after a GLOBAL X Factor LVL 3 nerf. Sentinel does what he is put in the game to do and that is he has a great assist to back up other characters and can come in a pinch to dish out heavy damage or fish for a comeback with LVL3 XF. If you want to play him on point you better have 2 very good assists backing him up and he will usually do good work. Sentinel still has a scary ability to kill teams/characters if the other person is caught sleeping.
He's the Dormammu fly combo I was talking about earlier. Looks simple, yet incredibly stylish.
Dormammu fly combo off Aerial Exchange
Dormammu fly combo off Aerial Exchange
Karsticles
Member
Gamma Charge Anti-Air just has super armor, no invincibility frames.
OTGs/wall bounces are just another way to extend combos. Spider-man has a ground bounce that he can continue from as well as Spider Swing. Captain America can continue combos via Shield Slash loops.
I think, when all is said and done, Spider-man will be acknowledged as a good character, but unlike most of the top characters right now, he takes work. You can't just Berserker Slash and Dive Kick to victory with Spider-man. Every single top tier character in this game right now shares one thing in common: ease of use.
400K. The only changes I would realistically want to Sentinel is for him to get some more life; I won't say he needs all 400K back, because it's very difficult to say what a character "needs" health-wise to be effective, and for his Flight to last ~5 seconds. This latter change, for me, is really about making him play more like he did in MvC2 - I miss his ability to maintain air pressure.
If I wanted to go crazy with buffs for him, I would want his old j.LK back for stomp combos, as well as for Rocket Punch to go farther again. If anyone wants to criticize these decisions, note the word "crazy" above. This would not make for a balanced character.
In general, speed boosts in X-Factor were a bad idea. It's not the damage boost Sentinel gets, because he's still easy as heck to block. It's about, suddenly, him moving like a pixie, with all of his other goodness. Dark Phoenix gets bitched about because she has a 45% speed boost in level 3 X-Factor, which takes her 30 frame teleport to ~15 frames. At 10 frames of recovery, it's not even punishable at that point unless you're psychic.
If I were to make 3 changes to X-Factor:
1) No speed boosts.
2) Damage boosts no longer reflect in chip damage dealt (I main Dormammu, and I still think burning out an entire character with Stalking Flare + X-Factor is just plain dumb).
3) X-Factor's length does not scale; the general time might need a small increase, though.
I am going to make a separate post about Hsien-ko.
Thanks, very nice!
Someone opened their mouth and said the nerf was justifiable.
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