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Marvel vs Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds |OT2| Sold exclusively at Dollar Tree
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
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It must be said for the millionth time: Phoenix doesn't need a nerf, X-Factor needs a tweak. And at the same time, Phoenix is beatable. Months ago everyone was bawwww Sentinel is unstoppable nerf nerf nerf, and then people scream afterwards "he didn't need that nerf! he has so many bad matchups [that we see now]!". I swear it's the same song and dance every time this discussion happens. Marvel is evolving at a pace that is faster than any other fighting game I've seen, even MvC2.
The laissez-faire approach is arguably the best one to take. I am strongly against knee-jerks from people in such a rapidly evolving game. People talk like we've hit the metagame so fast, we're nowhere near it. Not even close. I agree with Viscant, I think we've only really got say 15-25% of the stuff you can do. Popularity of Wolverine today is very much like popularity of Sent at release, so I roll my eyes at "ugh Wolverine is so imbal" posts. I also agree with AzureJericho, let that shit rock. Let the community evolve the game before you get a Super or Arcade Edition for MvC3.
As combos get deadlier and deadlier as time progresses, I see Phoenix taking a back seat down the line to higher HP, less risk characters. Phoenix is not the be all and end all of Marvel. Will Tokido and Viscant and the like influence people to try and pick up Phoenix? Sure, but you better bet that anti-Phoenix strats will coevolve simultaneously. Just let the game breathe before you pick up your "The End is Nigh" signs is all I'm saying.
I'm actually really, really interested in seeing what Daigo's main team is. Actually to be really honest, I just want to see it include someone that's not Taskmaster/She-Hulk/Akuma/Magneto/Wesker/Sentinel/Phoenix/Wolverine/Ammy/Zero/Dante.
So yeah I want him to play Arthur/Iron Man/Super Skrull.
The laissez-faire approach is arguably the best one to take. I am strongly against knee-jerks from people in such a rapidly evolving game. People talk like we've hit the metagame so fast, we're nowhere near it. Not even close. I agree with Viscant, I think we've only really got say 15-25% of the stuff you can do. Popularity of Wolverine today is very much like popularity of Sent at release, so I roll my eyes at "ugh Wolverine is so imbal" posts. I also agree with AzureJericho, let that shit rock. Let the community evolve the game before you get a Super or Arcade Edition for MvC3.
As combos get deadlier and deadlier as time progresses, I see Phoenix taking a back seat down the line to higher HP, less risk characters. Phoenix is not the be all and end all of Marvel. Will Tokido and Viscant and the like influence people to try and pick up Phoenix? Sure, but you better bet that anti-Phoenix strats will coevolve simultaneously. Just let the game breathe before you pick up your "The End is Nigh" signs is all I'm saying.
I'm actually really, really interested in seeing what Daigo's main team is. Actually to be really honest, I just want to see it include someone that's not Taskmaster/She-Hulk/Akuma/Magneto/Wesker/Sentinel/Phoenix/Wolverine/Ammy/Zero/Dante.
So yeah I want him to play Arthur/Iron Man/Super Skrull.
Professor Beef
Banned
Now that you've put the idea in my head, I'm gonna be so sad if it doesn't happen.enzo_gt said:
PsychoSoldier
Banned
Ultimoo said:
I still think he needed at least a little bit of a health nerf, just not as big of one as he got.
Professor Beef
Banned
Let the hate consume you.smurfx said:
GotchaForce
Member
My money for Daigo's team is Hsien-Ko, Spider-Man, MODOK. Just you wait and see.
Real talk though: I'm down with no Phoenix nerf, just nerf Xfactor damage.
Real talk though: I'm down with no Phoenix nerf, just nerf Xfactor damage.
enzo_gt said:
Completely agree. It's early as fuck everyone. You think Tokido didn't open Justin's eyes this weekend? I bet he's in the lab right now creating some absolutely retarded anti-Phoenix technology. I'm not saying Phoenix is going to drop tiers or anything, but give it time, she won't dominate like this forever.
Like many have said, a universal x-factor nerf/alteration would be good enough. Level 1= just a roman cancel. The additional damage is too much. People would find ways to make this a touch of death combo eventually anyways. Level 2= level 1. Level 3= level 2. I think that works.
And I agree with your Daigo statement... I really hope he doesn't use Phoenix, at least. Ryu/Akuma/Chun!
Face it Tiger..
Banned
This isn't SSF4, there aren't many option selects to Tokido's game.kitzkozan said:
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
I wouldn't even nerf Phoenix. The only thing that would need tweaking is D.Phoenix's values with X-factor lvl 3. That's more of an X-factor issue than anything else though. As a standalone character, she is horribly free against some of the cast, and anybody with a beam hyper is going to body her, if she's slipping.
Fireball against Ryu with Meter? Nope
Fireball against Akuma? Nope. Tatsu that shit, into beam hyper.
Press a button against Magnus with Meter? LOL
Taskmaster? Counter and arrows
Dormington? That shit is Freeeeee.
Ammy? Slow Down, cold star, counters + sword/whip, full screen hyper, etc.
Dante? Bold blocking, acid rain, teleports, fireballs, etc...
The problem with her was more with the team she was on: Logan and Sent. Logan gets as much damage as the heavy hitters, can self otg, has a hitbox on dive kick that hits across seas, and has invincibility on his slashes. I was playing earlier and he did one of those stupid things and ran straight through one of Ammy's counters... :|
Drones means he can get away with what he wants, unless you try for and blow up his assist alongside him...which is a lot easier said than done, if you aren't zoning.
Bitching aside though, I honestly don't even think that team is going to be the best. I hope this will make people try and develop more tech instead of crying for a ban/nerf right off the bat.
The funny thing is, she's still not as bad as Gill was/is.
edit: I'd make it so you couldn't be thrown at the very start of the match. Airthrows are way to gdlk.
Fireball against Ryu with Meter? Nope
Fireball against Akuma? Nope. Tatsu that shit, into beam hyper.
Press a button against Magnus with Meter? LOL
Taskmaster? Counter and arrows
Dormington? That shit is Freeeeee.
Ammy? Slow Down, cold star, counters + sword/whip, full screen hyper, etc.
Dante? Bold blocking, acid rain, teleports, fireballs, etc...
The problem with her was more with the team she was on: Logan and Sent. Logan gets as much damage as the heavy hitters, can self otg, has a hitbox on dive kick that hits across seas, and has invincibility on his slashes. I was playing earlier and he did one of those stupid things and ran straight through one of Ammy's counters... :|
Drones means he can get away with what he wants, unless you try for and blow up his assist alongside him...which is a lot easier said than done, if you aren't zoning.
Bitching aside though, I honestly don't even think that team is going to be the best. I hope this will make people try and develop more tech instead of crying for a ban/nerf right off the bat.
The funny thing is, she's still not as bad as Gill was/is.
edit: I'd make it so you couldn't be thrown at the very start of the match. Airthrows are way to gdlk.
1) This only works if the Phoneix is on the ground, or if Ryu is directly under her, doesn't really work out otherwise.
2) Akuma once again has to be on the same level or higher to touch her.
3) Same as 1+2, and Counter gets blown up by jab fire feathers.
4) Dorm has terrible start-up on his hypers, if Phoneix rushes down with teleport + jab spam, he's probably done.
5) I kinda agree with this one, but cold star is ineffective. Slow down + fullscreen hyper does work though
6) Dante has no real counters to Phoenix spamming TK shot in the air besides air-trick.
And I'll probably run Ammy/Sent/Phoenix until I get better with Wolverine, but it won't be touch of death like Tokido though sadly.
I was thinking of running a meter-building team as anti-Phoenix technology too, get 5 meters and hand it over to Ammy to duke it out against DP. Use meter to stall her x-factor and chip her out.
sonicspear64
Member
2Crisis said:Markman retweeted this.
Viscant hitting the lab with Derrick's team. This could be interesting.
That's another thing that I really didn't want to share but just get in and show off (whenever I get this blasted game ;____, snap backs are your friend! The first person that starts using snap backs not for the obvious "I don't like character a so I'll snap em in and wreck them" but for stuff like "I'm gonna juggle you around mid combo and disorient you as often as possible" or "hmm, I almost blew up that assist... I'mma snap them back in just to make the damage unrecoverable" gets infinite levels of respect from me.
, snap backs are your friend! The first person that starts using snap backs not for the obvious "I don't like character a so I'll snap em in and wreck them" but for stuff like "I'm gonna juggle you around mid combo and disorient you as often as possible" or "hmm, I almost blew up that assist... I'mma snap them back in just to make the damage unrecoverable" gets infinite levels of respect from me. Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Ultimoo said:
1) If he's under her he can still use the beam, and aim it upwards, or just jump in the air and do it. Snap phoenix in and go for chip. It depends on her screen placement. If she's D.Phoenix, she's going to try and go for an over head. Either guess and go for a DP, or jump tatsu backwards and try for super.
2) Plenty of Akuma's Jump tatsu as it is. It's going to pass right through the fireball and tag her. If she's D.Phoenix same ish. If she's flying, you're right, but she's going to have to come down at some point in the match.
3) I've only toyed around with Taskmaster, but his arrow hypers get beaten out by her fireballs? Chip that chick as she's coming in. If she's on the ground and xfactor, try and bait out an overhead. In terms of D.Phoenix, I dunno...lol
4)If phoenix rushes down on Dorm, she's dead. She'll get blown up by carpet or eat his flame hyper for being reckless. Floating bomb will keep her at bay as well. S+C. M beats out TK shots CLEANLY, and dark holes shut that sillyness down as well. If she gets to D.Phoenix, all Dorm has to do is sit in a corner and lay carpet and use Chaotic flame since it beats out the majority of the stuff in the game. It's not slow at all...
6)If she gets snapped in, she's getting put in an acid rain mix-up right off the bat. If she's flying, Devil Trigger, super jump and either use Vortex or air raid. If she's spamming TK shots, jump and use nevan. If she's teleport happy, corridor, agni+rudra, and his cerebrus moves should keep her off of him. If she's d.Phoenix and wants to take to the skies, do the same thing. If they're spamming feathers in your face, X-factor cancel into Lvl 3.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Ultimoo said:
I meant both. She doesn't get an easy chance against all of the cast.
Wesker still has a counter for projectiles. While the inputs can be tricky, it still exists. Same with Taskmaster.
Deadpool has a projectile that connects at the top right of the screen as well as horizontally.
Storm still has Ice storm.
Hell, the simple action of jumping back in a corner limits some of her options. And again, press fireball anything against Ryu with meter is a horrible mistake someone playing Phoenix could make. Chris G has been blowing people up with "random" beam hypers since he started winning.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Man I really wanted to go to NCR, but I'll be in New Jersey and won't be able to play MVC3 or AE for 10 days :-(
Good post. Reminds me a lot of the StarCraft II whine. Metagame shifts help balance a game moreso than patches imo. Certain areas need to be patched, but there should be a ton of data to back them up while looking at the possibilities in the future.enzo_gt said:
That said: Daigo will use Spiderman/Ironman/Ryu/Chun
Watch.
Played a lot of games on Saturday at a small gathering and going back online (haven't played ranked or player in a couple months) I realize how much I hate online play when directly compared to offline. Hate having to readjust everything I know because lag throws a bucket of mud on your offense and defense execution.
sixteen-bit
Member
Yeah, I need to get back in my local scene. Online is ass.Caj814 said:
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
I for one hope Daigo uses Phoenix. It would raise salt levels past maximum.
sixteen-bit
Member
I'd love to hear Yipes commentate that.ThatCrazyGuy said:
Karsticles
Member
But I play BlazBlue...
Fair enough, but you said everyone here is an "ass" and we don't play it, and several of us do. You make it sound like choosing a fighting game is a marriage proposal.
MK's story makes BlazBlue's look coherent. The Challenge Tower is idiotic.
When I mess around with a bunch of alt teams half the time, and you have one more win than I do in our matches, and you come in here saying "Whelp, that's another person I have a positive win record against on GAF, who's next?", it's a little grating.gosh guys, I like talking about the match up, jeez. Nothing else to do in this thread half the time.
Exciting.
Agreed. Nerf X-Factor.
The damage is fine. The speed bonus and chip damage are the problems.
Anti-Phoenix tech: Dormammu with 4 bars, snap her in, 3 X-Factor Stalking Flares. Later.
It's probably because Sentinel has a better chance of making a comeback.Seph does that against me when we play. He snaps in my Sentinel and kills him with his dirty mix-ups.
I am having an affair with Skrull right now. So fun.He should play Phoenix/Dorammamu/Skrull err wait. What was his team that he played vs Noel Brown again?
JeTmAn81
Member
To shake things up a bit, what is it that draws you guys so strongly to this particular game? Are there any other games that you have a particular affinity for, and if so, do you see any similarities between your fighting game pursuits and those other games?
For some reason, since picking up MvC3 I've started to have a craving for strategic games such as chess. I think the strategic component to Marvel is one of the things I like most about it. I can't remember the last game I spent this much time on (120+ hours so far on my disc). But with Marvel I just go and go, it's like an obsession or maybe even an addiction.
I went downstairs to play a bit before bed last night. I was really tired, even to the point of nearly falling asleep upstairs, but I really wanted to play just a little. Of course, what was supposed to be 15 minutes turned into over an hour. The game just gave me energy, probably the wrong kind of energy just before bed, but for some reason I just get a boost from trying my hand against a stranger somewhere out in the world.
But it's started to feel a little weird, since this game is sucking up a lot of my time which could be spent on other things. And yet, the less time I spend with the game, the longer it will take me to level up! Ah, dilemmas.
For some reason, since picking up MvC3 I've started to have a craving for strategic games such as chess. I think the strategic component to Marvel is one of the things I like most about it. I can't remember the last game I spent this much time on (120+ hours so far on my disc). But with Marvel I just go and go, it's like an obsession or maybe even an addiction.
I went downstairs to play a bit before bed last night. I was really tired, even to the point of nearly falling asleep upstairs, but I really wanted to play just a little. Of course, what was supposed to be 15 minutes turned into over an hour. The game just gave me energy, probably the wrong kind of energy just before bed, but for some reason I just get a boost from trying my hand against a stranger somewhere out in the world.
But it's started to feel a little weird, since this game is sucking up a lot of my time which could be spent on other things. And yet, the less time I spend with the game, the longer it will take me to level up! Ah, dilemmas.
Seems like a Phoenix player won some competition with all the arguments going around.
No one spoil it for me I am going to find out myself.
What draws me to this game is the infinite combination of characters/teams that a person can use and the high level of depth that this game has. The team building aspect is super addicting and the best part is how well it all gels together. I get some random idea as I am sipping my coke someday, I got into the lab and I try it and it works. It's the ultimate self indulging fighter.
The high learning curve, extreme balancing choices, team picks/counter picks and depth reminds me of the DOTA/HON game. DOTA/HON when looked at as a character vs character thing is HIGH IMBALANCED but the idea that it's team vs team where a character can make up for another character's weaknesses makes for a very exciting game.
No one spoil it for me I am going to find out myself.
What draws me to this game is the infinite combination of characters/teams that a person can use and the high level of depth that this game has. The team building aspect is super addicting and the best part is how well it all gels together. I get some random idea as I am sipping my coke someday, I got into the lab and I try it and it works. It's the ultimate self indulging fighter.
The high learning curve, extreme balancing choices, team picks/counter picks and depth reminds me of the DOTA/HON game. DOTA/HON when looked at as a character vs character thing is HIGH IMBALANCED but the idea that it's team vs team where a character can make up for another character's weaknesses makes for a very exciting game.
I am just going to watch the streams archive. I pretty much assumed that a Phoenix player would have a chance at Revelations but I never thought a Phoenix player would win CEO.
This should be interesting to watch and I will delve into the argument once I observe the matches.
This should be interesting to watch and I will delve into the argument once I observe the matches.
Oh man I just figured out how to end Tokida's basic Wolverine combo using Tron's Gustaff Fire assist instead of Phoenix....At the end I just do a tornado claw into Fatal Claw instad of Berserker Barrage X...It doesn't do enough damage, but I can still steal that combo so I'm hyped.
I just accidentally got spoiled of the top 2 in both CEO/Revelations for MVC3 plus the actual winners. :/
All I have to say is WTF....
These 2 tournaments for MVC3 have opened a lot of people's eyes. I expected that this day would finally come but I didn't expect it to happen over this weekend. Now the community will either conform or fight back.
I am now officially afraid of the BEAST. Are we all free now?
Will give full impressions once I observe all the tournament footage. I will have to say, just observing the Grand Final match ups in both tournaments I got SALTY as hell.
All I have to say is WTF....
Well at least Iron Man won a major. Though unfortunately it wasn't Flash's Iron Man.
Though unfortunately it wasn't Flash's Iron Man.These 2 tournaments for MVC3 have opened a lot of people's eyes. I expected that this day would finally come but I didn't expect it to happen over this weekend. Now the community will either conform or fight back.
I am now officially afraid of the BEAST. Are we all free now?
Will give full impressions once I observe all the tournament footage. I will have to say, just observing the Grand Final match ups in both tournaments I got SALTY as hell.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
Darkman M said:
It's landing even one basic abc combo that is the problem.
I think the issue right now is Phoenix technology is getting stronger much faster than anti-technology.
On top of that, people are upset because the very idea of the character is just lame. It's not fun to watch someone try to run from her and I hate watching someone play perfect and lose anyways to horrible 50/50 setups after they lose one character and end up losing the whole team.
Let's be honest - realistically, would it be that big of a deal to just ban her from tournament play?
Obviously there would be some players upset over the decision, however I think the majority of the community agrees that the character, even if not overpowered, causes serious problems in the tournament scene.
Not since Hilde in Soul Calibur 4 can I remember a character so hated.
We'll get an adjustment perhaps as a rolling beta kind of patch to see if it proves to be immediately effective or not, but if they find it's not working, they'll just put it back to normal in UMvC3. This is all such a small time frame though.kirblar said:
The Damage increase needs to be smaller, but still significant and perhaps a universal % boost across the board, because currently it favours many top tier characters anyways, I'd rather the advantage given to characters with less options, but of course that is subjective as the game evolves. I like the speed increase because it forces you to re-learn combos or actually play slightly different in XF mode rather than regular mode, makes X-Factor more of a utility that requires some skill to use. Even if it's very minor.
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