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Marvel vs Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds |OT2| Sold exclusively at Dollar Tree

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A

Azure J

Member
Ultimoo said:
of course I'm jumping on the phoenix bandwagon, everyone is telling me she's balanced. :p
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It's Marvel, if you aren't broken as shit, you're unbalanced. :lol

Also, I always figured it was the addition of the second orb to her TK Shot in DP mode that made people rage. Go figure. :p
 
N

Neki

Member
AzureJericho said:
It's Marvel, if you aren't broken as shit, you're unbalanced. :lol

Also, I always figured it was the addition of the second orb to her TK Shot in DP mode that made people rage. Go figure. :p
Click to expand...

I actually think it's the additions of feather projectiles to all her normals that make people rage.

1) Easy hitconfirms, throw out 5 jabs and if one connects, go into BnB + Phoenix Rage
2) Stuffs supers/counters/most special moves. Only way you'll get past it is if it has invincibility or godlike start up.
3) They do chip damage
4) good anti-air.

:p
 
S

smurfx

get some go again
btw dante is such bullshit. i didn't know he could cancel his hammer and flip the other way in the air. a couple of times today i thought i had him when he started up his hammer and i was behind him but only to see him flip the other way. wtf!
 
A

Azure J

Member
Oh yeah, feathers are definitely some seriously fucked up shit. I kinda want to see proto version Phoenix when those feathers didn't disappear though. Maybe Capcom could make a Shadow Battle DLC where we have to fight a match against Dark Phoenix as she was during protoyping with the good health + "Gradius" feathers. :lol
 
Nose Master

Nose Master

Member
smurfx said:
omfg i just had the worst fucking experience on xbox live. i swear it was nothing but laggy players after another sprinkled with phoenix users in between. on the plus side i beat my second cosmic lord! his name is velox. also got to practice my strategy against phoenix. believe it or not i've had much more success with haggar of all people against her than zero and taskmaster. it ain't the double lariat either as she gets right under that and blows him up if i try that. freaking tokido winning ceo with phoenix must of made everybody switch to her. hell even ultimoo is jumping on the bandwagon. :(


edit: btw my ssf4 pad can't seem to go up or down when navigating the xbox menu. do you guys know how to fix that? it was working just fine yesterday. it works just fine when playing the game.
Click to expand...

You prolly have it set to left stick rather than d-pad, or vice versa (switch on the back). I forget which one causes it, but d-pad usually worked better for me when I used pad.
 
S

SmokeMaxX

Member
smurfx said:
at the very least add time in between firing the shots.
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I also wouldn't complain if they slowed her down across the board. Even in regular Phoenix mode with no x factor, for a lot of characters it's nearly impossible to get in with Phoenix spamming traps. Like if I'm a half screen away with Haggar, I can block the first trap and by the time I get past it (no push block or anything), she'll already have another one waiting.

I get that characters are supposed to have bad matchups, or even terrible ones, but impossible ones? Frustrating to say the least.
 
N

Neki

Member
SmokeMaxX said:
I also wouldn't complain if they slowed her down across the board. Even in regular Phoenix mode with no x factor, for a lot of characters it's nearly impossible to get in with Phoenix spamming traps. Like if I'm a half screen away with Haggar, I can block the first trap and by the time I get past it (no push block or anything), she'll already have another one waiting.

I get that characters are supposed to have bad matchups, or even terrible ones, but impossible ones? Frustrating to say the least.
Click to expand...

To be fair Haggar can't get past most characters that possess at least one projectile, that's more of a problem with Haggar than Phoenix.
 
V

vg260

Member
Regarding people using Sentinel nerfs as an example of how not to handle balance issues, I don't think that's a valid example. That patch was out early enough that it had to be in the works by Capcom prior to release. There's lengthy certification processes, so I think it's clear Capcom just didn't get this in early enough before the disc went final. For all intents and purposes Sentinel now is what the character should have been at launch. Aside from glitch fixes, there really haven't been any 'balance' fixes yet. It's not like there was a huge balance patch and this was one of the many changes. We never saw a lot of the characters until disc launch so who knows how many internal balance nerfs there were. This really should have never have been seen by players. If Sentinel came out as-is, no one would be the wiser, and there would be no examples to use.
 
L

LakeEarth

Member
Dahbomb said:
I also don't get why people make such a huge deal about Wolverine killing off a character with LVL1 X Factor. At least 90% of the roster can kill off pretty much anyone with LVL1 XF. I do something similar with Wesker, only with air throws (can't do it off of a ground throw or else I would do it with that too).
Click to expand...
How many can do it off a ground throw?
 
K

Karsticles

Member
who wants to practice against my annoying phoenix team? GAF marvel chat now! :D
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You think the handful of people who want to play want to play against Phoenix voluntarily? Haha.

I also don't get why people make such a huge deal about Wolverine killing off a character with LVL1 X Factor. At least 90% of the roster can kill off pretty much anyone with LVL1 XF. I do something similar with Wesker, only with air throws (can't do it off of a ground throw or else I would do it with that too).
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It's the same reason people whine about Sentinel's easy combos that lead to big damage, which top out pretty fast if you want to push yourself, but don't care that Taskmaster can do over a million damage solo without X-Factor.

That's the only fix she needs really.
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I am reminded of your video that showed level 3 X-Factor Sentinel when you say this. Dark Phoenix, even with the homing balls, is just fine. It's the level 3 X-Factor that makes her utterly unbearable, and you rarely see her outside of level 3 X-Factor. In the few instances a player hasn't had level 3 X-Factor for Dark Phoenix, the matches tend to go 50/50.

Regarding people using Sentinel nerfs as an example of how not to handle balance issues, I don't think that's a valid example. That patch was out early enough that it had to be in the works by Capcom prior to release. There's lengthy certification processes, so I think it's clear Capcom just didn't get this in early enough before the disc went final.
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*bashes skull into desk repeatedly*
 
H

HiResDes

Member
Ultimoo said:
Sent/Ammy/Phoenix
or
Tron/Sent/Phoenix

decisions decisions, lawl.

managed to steal Fchamp's phoenix combo by looking at him perform it at ramnation, so crispy.
Click to expand...
I'm torn in between running Wolverine/Tron/Sentinel or Wolverine/Sentinel/Phoenix
 
D

Deleted member 13876

Unconfirmed Member
LakeEarth said:
Awesome stuff.

But in that video, Master CJ says he's dropping Dormammu cause he's too slow :(
Click to expand...

Damn, his Dormammu was so fun to watch.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
LakeEarth said:
How many can do it off a ground throw?
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I know Chris can do it because I do it with Chris sometimes (ground throw, low gun shot, x factor). Thor too because his ground throw is just he tosses you up and you can do pretty much any combo after that. Felicia probably too. Of course there is Magneto.
 
L

LakeEarth

Member
Dahbomb said:
I know Chris can do it because I do it with Chris sometimes (ground throw, low gun shot, x factor). Thor too because his ground throw is just he tosses you up and you can do pretty much any combo after that. Felicia probably too. Of course there is Magneto.
Click to expand...
Yeah you're right. Also Viper, Doom and Ammy.
 
U

USD

Member
Dahbomb said:
How is that MarlinPie trolling? That was LEGIT MODOK play.
Click to expand...
I know that (though that was about the only combo with M.O.D.O.K. that he actually completed), but the only reason he played the team was because of the pot split. But hey, if you're in the money already, why not try out new shit?
 
DR2K

DR2K

Banned
smurfx said:
at the very least add time in between firing the shots.
Click to expand...

There's more than enough time to punish in between shots. She doesn't require a nerf, there's already solid ways to beat her. Snap in, chip, run away, hit her once, random super, trap, etc. . . There's a ton of risk with using her on your team, because she's basically half a character until you sacrifice all your meter. High risk and high reward, even then to a lesser extent all rules to beat her as DP still apply.

More invincible supers for some of the cast would be beneficial though.

Funny enough I was morrigan in Xfc level 3 against a xfc 3 DP once and i was mashing fireballs, but she teleported right behind me and I ended up killing her with an accidental soul throw. Lulz ensued. Fuck not having a replay option.
 
Y

YulB.Yeung

Member
Hey guys, is anyone in GAF going to NCR this weekend? I just move out here to San Francisco and I don't have access to my own car yet. If anyone from the area is heading out there and willing to pick up a hitchhiker, PM me and maybe we can arrange something. (I'll buy lunch, or pay for a game entrance fee.)
 
S

SouthernDragon

Member
I am no Marvel player, but watching Revelations makes me wonder why ANYONE has Amaterasu on their team. Every person outside of ChrisG got their Ammy blown up almost immediately, and it was almost useless against Tokido. Ammy was really only good for her Slow Hyper, outside of that...

It was just really frustrating to watch. I thought the American scene was better. Combofiend seems to be the only one to be on point. Wong was embarrassing to watch once Tokido figured him out. It was obvious that Wong's Tron was solely there for the assist.

Just... ugh. Hopefully those matches woke up the American scene.
 
N

Neki

Member
Ammy has strong utility and a very generous hitbox on her normals. She is also very small, meaning she ducks under most projectiles and standing attacks. She also has a godlike throw/air-throw and a very fast air-dash. She also has a very basic bnb that can do around 560k only using H and S basically. Overall, her only down-point is her low health.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Amaterasu is one of the best characters in the game. Small hit box, j.H OS + huge range on throws, counters, spammable hypers, one of the best assists in the game, easy meter building BnBs, high priority attacks, different weapon modes allow for different play styles and match up adjustments. She is still a lot of untapped potential despite being very good in the current meta. 1on1 she has one of the best match ups in the game.

Justin Wong played excellently but his Ammy/Tron were way out of practice. He effectively came up with a counter team to Tokido's and took him for a ride including one perfect. Once Tokido figured out that J Wong's team was hella front loaded, he turned the momentum.

A lot of those players at CEO were hella top players but got eliminated really quickly. Chris G is fucking godlike and he was good enough to have taken that tournament (tight matches against both Tokido and JWong). Not to mention the stacked losers bracket. Tokido definitely took a lot of them by surprise. USA is on official notice in MVC3.

Anyone play Seth K's shadow mode? It has a 20 star difficulty and uses Dante/C Viper/Sentinel (all on Alpha assists).
 
Q

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
Very very few people use ammy 100% She's sorta like dante actually, strong basics that get people through. But the people that master her all the way are fucking amazing.
 
L

LakeEarth

Member
It isn't like Tokido raped Justin or anything. They were both playing very well. But Tokido's team is just brilliant. If Tokido's Wolverine goes down, Pheonix keeps his team strong. If Justin's Wolverine goes down, he's in deep shit.
 
S

sixteen-bit

Member
LakeEarth said:
It isn't like Tokido raped Justin or anything. They were both playing very well. But Tokido's team is just brilliant. If Tokido's Wolverine goes down, Pheonix keeps his team strong. If Justin's Wolverine goes down, he's in deep shit.
Click to expand...
Yep. Tokido definitely had a winning strategy.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Ultimoo said:
Ammy has strong utility and a very generous hitbox on her normals. She is also very small, meaning she ducks under most projectiles and standing attacks. She also has a godlike throw/air-throw and a very fast air-dash. She also has a very basic bnb that can do around 560k only using H and S basically. Overall, her only down-point is her low health.
Click to expand...
She also doesn't have a ton of escape mobility. She's fast, but she lacks the insanity of say, Magneto, who can get away in a flash.
 
N

Neki

Member
kirblar said:
She also doesn't have a ton of escape mobility. She's fast, but she lacks the insanity of say, Magneto, who can get away in a flash.
Click to expand...
I'm inclined to agree there. If someone corners me, I have a hard time getting out of pressure. Maybe that's why I hate Hulk and wesker. But that's why I got Tron assist!

Also, I know some basic weapon change combos that are flashy as hell, but HHHHHS + HHHxxQCF+H + MHH + (SxxTK Okami Shuffle or Divine Instruments) leads to the same damage and is always easier to pull off.

Aruarian Reflection said:
From ReveLAtions: KillerKai makes the best faces =P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqUl9kOIpF0
Click to expand...

That Sentinel should have done the 4 bar Sentinel combo against Taskmaster, might have been able to kill him.
 
O

Oldschoolgamer

The physical form of blasphemy
How ridiculous is Dante's hammer. Gawd damn. lmao. Getting blown up by it amuses me so much. lol :(

edit: C.Viper isn't nearly as difficult to use as I thought she would be...
 
A

Adam Prime

hates soccer, is Mexican
mjemirzian said:
So.. how many Phoenixes in the top 8 at EVO? Or how many wolverine/phoenix/? teams.
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Marn was saying on the stream that he, Justin Wong, and EVERYBODY has a Phoenix Evo team. They're just waiting for Evo to start using them.

It would really kill the hype if that's what Evo turns out to be. What made CEO so interesting this past weekend was watching Mike Ross' Honda and Takido's Akuma blow up Twins. So I hope like last year's Evo we get a diverse cast, at least in Street Fighter: Honda, Adon, Rufus, Zangief, etc.

I think it's almost a guarantee that we're going to see Fei Long at Evo this year Top 8 for sures.
 
S

SouthernDragon

Member
Thanks for the answers, guys.

Again, I'm only a viewer and not a player, so I don't know the intricacies of the game. I could only assume there must be a good reason why people pick Ammy.

But all I saw was Ammy getting routinely blown up. I actually thought that she was there to die fast so the player could get to XF2 faster or something.

And yeah, Wong caught Tokido a couple of times, but that was little more than a gimmick team. Wong was unable to readjust after Tokido's counter, and then it was all over. Until then, it was a great series of matches, though.

I really like Combofiend's team. He's good with every character, each one can DHC into the other easily, and they all have high health and mobility. I actually think his team is more solid than Tokido, but there's always Dark Phoenix to think about.

But, again, thanks for giving me the time of day, even though I'm not a regular. MvC3 is a lot of fun to watch.
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
Just gonna post this Wolverine dive kick hitbox here from the BB CS thread in honor of the CEO finals wolv/wolv shenanigans.

tumblr_llp4e9im8r1qjoahco1_500.png


I should doodle some of these for other stuff sometime. Tron's junk and Sentinel stuff would be fun to do.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Adam Prime said:
Marn was saying on the stream that he, Justin Wong, and EVERYBODY has a Phoenix Evo team. They're just waiting for Evo to start using them.

It would really kill the hype if that's what Evo turns out to be. What made CEO so interesting this past weekend was watching Mike Ross' Honda and Takido's Akuma blow up Twins. So I hope like last year's Evo we get a diverse cast, at least in Street Fighter: Honda, Adon, Rufus, Zangief, etc.

I think it's almost a guarantee that we're going to see Fei Long at Evo this year Top 8 for sures.
Click to expand...
Rose showing up in Winner's Finals was sick.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
You don't use Phoenix if you happen to have a Phoenix team. There has to be a full plan behind it and the teammates are just as essential. You can't just throw in Phoenix with 2 good characters and be like "I am good to go".

Justin Wong/Marn and whoever has a Phoenix team is not going to risk EVO with a Phoenix team. It's a gamble and a Phoenix player is just as likely to get randomed out as he is likely to random someone else out (ie. Clockwork at Revelations).

Tokido, Viscant, Filipino Champ have been using their Phoenix teams since day 1 so they are expected to keep at it. They know how to cover up their Phoenix's weaknesses and how to make escapes/buy time after snap backs. They know the match ups and they know the threats to Phoenix.


I really like Combofiend's team. He's good with every character, each one can DHC into the other easily, and they all have high health and mobility. I actually think his team is more solid than Tokido, but there's always Dark Phoenix to think about.
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Combofiend has one of the best constructed teams out there and is one of the best players of MVC3. How he didn't win Revelations is just beyond me, probably because there were too many Phoenix players there.

Disagree about high mobility though, those characters are actually low mobility in this game (Spencer being the most mobile of the 3). High mobility characters are like Magneto, Iron Man, Spider Man, Trish and Phoenix. These characters can get out of a tight spot in a jiffy thanks to their 8 way dashes, teleports, swings etc.
 
G

Grecco

Member
mjemirzian said:
So.. how many Phoenixes in the top 8 at EVO? Or how many wolverine/phoenix/? teams.
Click to expand...


This always happens. I think it started day one with Sentinel, then Spencer at final round, and then Wolverine at Power Up?

One character blows up and now everybody expects everybody else to simply jump on the train and ride it to gravy town.


Id be shocked if theres alot of pheonix teams. Clockwork has had issues and he has been using her since day one.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
You forgot the She Hulk bandwagon.

Here is the compiled list of Winners/Runner Ups teams for all majors in MVC3:

Winter Brawl: W - She Hulk/Amaterasu/Tron Bonne
R - Magneto/Haggar/Sentinel

Final Round: W - She Hulk/Taskmaster/Spencer
R - She Hulk/Amaterasu/Tron Bonne

PowerUp: W - She Hulk/Dante/Dormammu
R - Dormammu/Sentinel/Dr Doom

UFGT: W - She Hulk/Wolverine/Akuma
R - Magneto/Wolverine/Sentinel

CEO: W - Wolverine/Sentinel/Phoenix
R - Wolverine/Amaterasu/Tron

Revelations: W - Wesker/Iron Man/Phoenix
R - Dormammu/Magneto/Phoenix
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Karsticles said:
The natural evolution of the game really isn't that exciting for Hsien-ko and Thor mains, if you catch my drift.

I don't think we should fine tune every character, but is it really that crazy to take a look at some characters right now and say "wow, they are ass", and then improve them? Icefrog doesn't revise the entire game every iteration, he usually works on a few characters to try and make them viable. Capcom's problem is that they like to nerf stuff into oblivion. They're kind of like Blizzard.

Is something good? Is it cool? Is it fun?

Rather than making other things just as good, cool, and fun, prepare to have 400K health removed from your character!

I don't think players would be so apprehensive about balance patches if we all didn't know that "balance" to Capcom means ruining everything enjoyable about the game for the character you probably like to play. If "balance" was Icefrog style, i.e. looking at underplayed characters and making them more interesting, stronger, I don't think we'd all be as bothered about it.

So, to be more clear: balance the game now, but don't touch the top characters like Magneto and Amaterasu. They're good, and it's good that they're good. Work on the completely unused characters, and then see how things mature.
Click to expand...

I never get when low or mid tier characters get nerfs. Like why? They were already not that great. What was imba about them?
 
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