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Marvel vs Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds |OT2| Sold exclusively at Dollar Tree
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
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Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Karsticles said:
She's still in MvC2 and not this anymore. lol
Damn, Ike is so low. lol.
Karsticles
Member
What does this sentence mean?
I mained Ganondorf. :-(Damn, Ike is so low. lol.
SouthernDragon
Member
Make X-Factor only available once you are down to your last character, and make it only as potent as level 1. Make it last 15 seconds, which is an eternity in a fighting game anyways.
Or make it available when you still have 2-3 characters, but make it a pure Roman Cancel, with absolutely no boosts. Keep the chip negation, I guess.
Or make it available when you still have 2-3 characters, but make it a pure Roman Cancel, with absolutely no boosts. Keep the chip negation, I guess.
sixteen-bit
Member
I wouldn't mind no X-Factor at all.
Aside from it being too good at the start (Wolvie kills a character off one hit and the incoming character off a guess), it would let comebacks be actual comebacks.
Aside from it being too good at the start (Wolvie kills a character off one hit and the incoming character off a guess), it would let comebacks be actual comebacks.
X-factor as a concept is great (not in it's execution). I like the strategy about when and why you pop/save it.
It's just way too strong. I always felt like the damage boost should have been reversed and it's duration shortened. Like popping a level-1 xfactor does the most damage increase, but only last like 5 seconds.. where as popping a level-3 xfactor does damage akin to the current level 1, but it last 15 seconds. Wouldn't that make more sense in a balancing it's scaling?
Basically level 1 is all about a quick burn, but don't miss.. and level 3 is still the comeback usage.. just no ridiculously godlike damage boost. Honestly a level 3 Akuma / Wesker / D.Phoenix is just ridiculous in how fast they can tear through people.
Level 2 x-factor hasn't totally bothered me.
Not sure the current timing on duration but
5 seconds - lvl1
10 seconds - lvl2
15 seconds - lvl3
sounds about right to me assuming the damage adjustments happened as I'm suggesting.
It's just way too strong. I always felt like the damage boost should have been reversed and it's duration shortened. Like popping a level-1 xfactor does the most damage increase, but only last like 5 seconds.. where as popping a level-3 xfactor does damage akin to the current level 1, but it last 15 seconds. Wouldn't that make more sense in a balancing it's scaling?
Basically level 1 is all about a quick burn, but don't miss.. and level 3 is still the comeback usage.. just no ridiculously godlike damage boost. Honestly a level 3 Akuma / Wesker / D.Phoenix is just ridiculous in how fast they can tear through people.
Level 2 x-factor hasn't totally bothered me.
Not sure the current timing on duration but
5 seconds - lvl1
10 seconds - lvl2
15 seconds - lvl3
sounds about right to me assuming the damage adjustments happened as I'm suggesting.
the_log_ride
Member
_dementia said:
Ok so some of my friends approached me about this whole MVC3/Wolverine/X factor business and I am going to tell you guys what I told them.
On the issue of X Factor:
It needed a nerf day -10. Everyone has been saying it and it's about time. Speed bonus is retarded and it makes good characters undefendable against (Wesker/Phoenix come to mind). Damage is WAY too high, it's so high that you can kill off one character in LVL1 and have enough time to use it on the 2nd character. Wolverine is NOT the only character who can do this people.
You can't JUST nerf LVL3 because then everyone would just burn LVL1 for the quick kills. LVL1 X Factor is just as bad or worse because it can single-handedly cripple a team. I am in favor of LVL1 X factor not giving a damage boost at all and it just being a way to extend your combos for the character kill or for the cancel/safety/punish option. New LVL2 with the damage boost as current LVL1 (maybe even lower for a lot of the characters) but same duration as current LVL1 (less than 10 seconds). LVL3 with the SAME damage boost from new LVL2/current LVL1 but with longer duration (no longer than 15 seconds).
Only after this can you fairly gauge the game. LVL3 with the ridiculous damage boost and insane timer makes comebacks essential. LVL1 X Factor is just as bad and this is BEFORE most people even realizing how good it is. Sure it overshadows LVL3 but really now... if you have a chance to kill 2 characters now why wait for the LVL3 (Phoenix teams excluded). If your mix up on incoming character is so good then with a LVL1 you can easily take the match.
There are other oddities with X Factor like how it ups the minimum scaling on damage. This needs to go too.
On the issue of Wolverine:
Everyone knew he was top 5 at day 1. The ridiculous part is that his technology on day 1 was so good that it hasn't even evolved since then because there has been no need. Once people figured out that high/low mixups aren't as good as left/right mix ups (because chicken blocking is very good in this game since there are no guard breaks) and that the game is much focused near the ground as compared to the skies plus the obvious nerfs to tri-dashing.... MVC3 became Wolverine's realm.
Two things changed that made Wolverine go up in rankings. One was the discovery that XF LVL1 > XF LVL3. Most people still haven't caught on to it but now people are getting it. Next was Wolverine's solo game and mix up on incoming character (which JWong had polished since day 1 of the game). His solo game was maximized with the use of Bersreker Charge to cancel and launch after a Berserker Slash. His solo throw game went up with XF LVL1. When people figured this out, they declared him #1 in the game because now he could take out 2 characters WITHOUT needing an assist although having an assist boosts his game tremendously. This is what allowed for team configurations that didn't have Akuma on it.
Right now as it stands, Wolverine has 3 majors won and She Hulk has 4 although I easily see Wolverine eclipsing that record. Even if there is a nerf to X Factor, Wolverine is going to stay dominant in this game. The funny part is that if Capcom attempted to nerf Wolverine, he would drop in tiers really fast. It's because his game is extremely predictable. If you lower his effectiveness at what he does then he isn't going to trouble anyone. If you nerf his ability to 50/50 you, he will drop 2 tiers. If you nerf his safety on moves, he drops tiers. It's a very fine line with Wolverine unfortunately.
On the issue of X Factor:
It needed a nerf day -10. Everyone has been saying it and it's about time. Speed bonus is retarded and it makes good characters undefendable against (Wesker/Phoenix come to mind). Damage is WAY too high, it's so high that you can kill off one character in LVL1 and have enough time to use it on the 2nd character. Wolverine is NOT the only character who can do this people.
You can't JUST nerf LVL3 because then everyone would just burn LVL1 for the quick kills. LVL1 X Factor is just as bad or worse because it can single-handedly cripple a team. I am in favor of LVL1 X factor not giving a damage boost at all and it just being a way to extend your combos for the character kill or for the cancel/safety/punish option. New LVL2 with the damage boost as current LVL1 (maybe even lower for a lot of the characters) but same duration as current LVL1 (less than 10 seconds). LVL3 with the SAME damage boost from new LVL2/current LVL1 but with longer duration (no longer than 15 seconds).
Only after this can you fairly gauge the game. LVL3 with the ridiculous damage boost and insane timer makes comebacks essential. LVL1 X Factor is just as bad and this is BEFORE most people even realizing how good it is. Sure it overshadows LVL3 but really now... if you have a chance to kill 2 characters now why wait for the LVL3 (Phoenix teams excluded). If your mix up on incoming character is so good then with a LVL1 you can easily take the match.
There are other oddities with X Factor like how it ups the minimum scaling on damage. This needs to go too.
On the issue of Wolverine:
Everyone knew he was top 5 at day 1. The ridiculous part is that his technology on day 1 was so good that it hasn't even evolved since then because there has been no need. Once people figured out that high/low mixups aren't as good as left/right mix ups (because chicken blocking is very good in this game since there are no guard breaks) and that the game is much focused near the ground as compared to the skies plus the obvious nerfs to tri-dashing.... MVC3 became Wolverine's realm.
Two things changed that made Wolverine go up in rankings. One was the discovery that XF LVL1 > XF LVL3. Most people still haven't caught on to it but now people are getting it. Next was Wolverine's solo game and mix up on incoming character (which JWong had polished since day 1 of the game). His solo game was maximized with the use of Bersreker Charge to cancel and launch after a Berserker Slash. His solo throw game went up with XF LVL1. When people figured this out, they declared him #1 in the game because now he could take out 2 characters WITHOUT needing an assist although having an assist boosts his game tremendously. This is what allowed for team configurations that didn't have Akuma on it.
Right now as it stands, Wolverine has 3 majors won and She Hulk has 4 although I easily see Wolverine eclipsing that record. Even if there is a nerf to X Factor, Wolverine is going to stay dominant in this game. The funny part is that if Capcom attempted to nerf Wolverine, he would drop in tiers really fast. It's because his game is extremely predictable. If you lower his effectiveness at what he does then he isn't going to trouble anyone. If you nerf his ability to 50/50 you, he will drop 2 tiers. If you nerf his safety on moves, he drops tiers. It's a very fine line with Wolverine unfortunately.
Professor Beef
Banned
I hate how much it annoys me that there's a "thwip" instead of a "snikt."_dementia said:
I'd actually have to agree with this if you want the largest chance of winning. Although it doesn't explain why I haven't won a tournament in years. :|Karsticles said:
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Karsticles said:
All she really has is hail storm. For all of what she offers, you might as well play Magneto. She got hit with the nerf bat hella hard.
How did you ever manage? lol
Prototype-03
Member
N4Us said:
Dahbomb said:
I like everything in this post. I'm no where near as pro as most of you guys at this game, but even this sounds like a really reasonable nerf to x-factor. I don't mind x-factor turning the tables, but to have a lvl-3 character (or in wolvie's case a level 1 character) drop multiple characters in seconds is absurd. The level 1 xfactor just needs to be adjusted for specific characters in my mind, so that popping it early is still a worthy tactic. There are plenty of other characters where level 1 xfactor is totally reasonable. I worry that using lvl-1 xfactor as just a combo extender would pretty much mean no one would really use it. Maybe if it reset the damage scaling.. then it would be worth popping level 1
Also, I really hope that one of the biggest additions to the next iteration of Marvel is a solid character who is a complete phoenix counter character. Perhaps someone who can drain some super bars off the opponent, or doesnt take chip ala iceman... or has some really good projectile counters.
sixteen-bit
Member
Maybe have Advance Guard negate chip entirely? Come up with a solution like GG/BB where Advance Guard depletes a specific meter when used.2&2 said:
I suppose that opens a whole other can of worms though.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I think there is a small handful of characters who counter Phoenix just fine as-is.... as long as they have meter and are already in play before she can set-up her trap guessing game to kill them on entry.Dirtbag said:
_dementia said:
Heh, I'm probably not good enough to get into the discussion too much. I do like the idea of a guard break using some meter or something maybe once per match maybe. I think some people hate that idea though. Wasn't something like that in TvC? Seems like there are so many times where you can put down your controller and grab a bite to eat while being comboed. I dunno.
I'm sure Capcom's got something they're working on though.
Speaking of chip, no reason why X Factor should be enhancing chip damage to that level. It's practically 70% of Phoenix's game.
I would like more range on his air Might Hurricane command throw and better frames on his normals (plus not have cr.M hit deteriorate so much that it's better to skip the move entirely in a combo). His Mighty Thunder hyper also needs less recovery frames, way too punishable especially when compared to Magneto's.
Might Smash assist is pretty decent, goes through a lot of stuff and on connection gives you a free combo. If they want to make it godly then they would probably add invincible frames to the up part. I don't know if they would do that although I would definitely like to see a move or two that is actually invincible for Thor (aside from his command throw hyper).
Certainly a candidate for some minor buffs but he is not as terrible as some people make him out to be. Still solid Mid tier.
Super armor on his specials would be decent to have particularly Might Strike/Might Smash. I don't know about a speed increase hyper.
I would like more range on his air Might Hurricane command throw and better frames on his normals (plus not have cr.M hit deteriorate so much that it's better to skip the move entirely in a combo). His Mighty Thunder hyper also needs less recovery frames, way too punishable especially when compared to Magneto's.
Might Smash assist is pretty decent, goes through a lot of stuff and on connection gives you a free combo. If they want to make it godly then they would probably add invincible frames to the up part. I don't know if they would do that although I would definitely like to see a move or two that is actually invincible for Thor (aside from his command throw hyper).
Certainly a candidate for some minor buffs but he is not as terrible as some people make him out to be. Still solid Mid tier.
That would help Phoenix as much as it would hurt her. Think about it, if Phoenix can choose which side she will come after a snapback it would defeat the purpose of a snapback.Ferrio said:
One thing I really hate about the Marvel series is the fact that you can lose sight of your character when performing combos - or the fact that you can lose sight of them at all, actually. I wish the series would adopt a zoom-style camera similar to the Smash games. It's more dynamic and I want to see exactly where I am in relation to my opponent at all times.
Dahbomb said:
I'm not proposing it to help against phoenix, I'm proposing it so the game gives the incoming player a better chance. Phoenix needs to be fixed in other ways.
In it's current form it punishes a player for losing a character, when they've already been punished enough.
I am fine with the way it is to be honest. If you look at it within a SF4 comparison, losing a character is like being hit by a strong combo taking like 1/3rd of your life and with you ending on a hard knockdown. You are at a disadvantage already and you WILL be eating a mix up on wake up.
It's really only "bad" when you have to compare it to Wolverine/Dark Phoenix vs incoming character. Most other characters have mix ups but they aren't as imperceptible. Again, it would sort of nullify the advantages of a Snapback. That mix up opportunity on a fresh character is what makes the Snapback worthwhile.
It's really only "bad" when you have to compare it to Wolverine/Dark Phoenix vs incoming character. Most other characters have mix ups but they aren't as imperceptible. Again, it would sort of nullify the advantages of a Snapback. That mix up opportunity on a fresh character is what makes the Snapback worthwhile.
Prototype-03
Member
Dahbomb said:
Except losing a character is way worse than losing 1/3 of your life. Think about it this way. Would you rather lose 1/3 of the life for all 3 characters, or 100% of one? There's no comparison.
That question is skewered around because I was talking about losing 1/3rd of your life in SF4 compared to losing 1 character in MVC3 as both lead to mix up on wake up. You may have less options but your X Factor power went up substantially.
Everyone here would prefer 1/3rd life lost on all 3 character vs 1 character lost in MVC3. Especially since that life lost can be recovered.
I am down with giving characters more breathing room when a character dies BUT not when they get SNAPPED in.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I actually hate that the camera zooms in and out at all. Sometimes I have a hard time confirming if I'm at max-range or not because of the way the camera changes when you're at full-screen length, and it gets me blown up every once in a while.Kimosabae said:
Dahbomb said:
Agree with your x-factor nerf. I've been telling people the exact same nerf for months.
Honestly, I think they could give nerfs to Wolverine here and there that would still keep him in high tier, but not god tier like he is now. Imagine Wolverine with:
-aforementioned x-factor nerf
-no ground bounce off dive kick (otg)
-a little less health
-fucking less damage on fatal claw (mainly because of it's x factor damage)
I honestly thing if they made only those 3 changes to Wolverine specifically, he'd still be a beast, but not stupid good like he is now.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
Cable! Shoot her down!Dirtbag said:
Fatal Claw does so much damage in X Factor because of the way scaling works in X Factor. It's one of the things I talked about in my huge post. It's also one of the things Clockwork talked about very early in the game where some moves did more damage in X factor even after taking into consideration their percentage boost. Damage is so inflated in X factor even for chip damage.
If you take out Wolverine's Dive Kick ground bounce property it would severely hamper his damage output on his BnB. But I guess that was the point lol.
I am down with less health, he certainly fits the criteria for it. His biggest problem is the Berserker Slash/Charge shenanigans combined with his instant over head j.L. Of course if you nerf any of these he goes down substantially. Taking out his instant overhead would essentially remove his primary high/low mix up. If you nerf Berserker slash in that you make it perceptible then it severely nerfs his right/left mix up. But again... I guess that's the point.
And there is no reason that he should be able to get a full combo off of a Dive Kick starter. At the very least it should cause the ground bounce on impact so he has to do a shortened version of his combo.
This is all coming from a day 1 Wolverine player.
If you take out Wolverine's Dive Kick ground bounce property it would severely hamper his damage output on his BnB. But I guess that was the point lol.
I am down with less health, he certainly fits the criteria for it. His biggest problem is the Berserker Slash/Charge shenanigans combined with his instant over head j.L. Of course if you nerf any of these he goes down substantially. Taking out his instant overhead would essentially remove his primary high/low mix up. If you nerf Berserker slash in that you make it perceptible then it severely nerfs his right/left mix up. But again... I guess that's the point.
And there is no reason that he should be able to get a full combo off of a Dive Kick starter. At the very least it should cause the ground bounce on impact so he has to do a shortened version of his combo.
This is all coming from a day 1 Wolverine player.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
I hope Storm gets more use after this weekend. It's nice to see she's good for more than just the DHC glitch.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
I'm not bitching about her, but it doesn't seem like she's been a big part of the metagame so far.Dahbomb said:
I didn't mean you were bitching, I mean in general I have seen a lot of people bitch about her. Damage isn't high enough, normals aren't good enough etc. You have to put in a bit of work with her but she's still very solid and I definitely DUG that float/cross over trick with Tatsu from JWong. Having that Hailstorm DHC on deck is always super sweet and sometimes game saving.
Parallax Scroll said:
God I've tried playing her a few times and she just feels so weird to me. She looks like a really fast character, but when I control her she plays so much slower. I have no idea how to use her properly. I had a hard time hitting basic air combos because her timing felt so strange to me. No changes necessary, I just hated the feel of her.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Anth0ny said:
Hailstorm aside, Magnus and Trish probably get the job done a hell of a lot better. That's probably why.
That dude on Team Hori's Storm >>>*
Storm combos are annoying to do. To some they look flashy, to me they look awkward.Anth0ny said:
Just read this now but, they couldn't have "ruined" Spidey after his abysmal appearance in MvC2. They made him better, but the web swinging thing is one that annoys me greatly as well, as I've previously said too.Dirtbag said:
DR2K
Banned
Storm is the best character in the game, people are sleeping on her for no reason. High damage, 2 OTG supers, great DHC ability, huge range, mobility, speed, highest chip game, great at zoning or rushdown, and a fair amount of health. I guess she has a slightly higher level of execution than normal?
Master Milk
Member
I think it's because she isn't Wolverine/Akuma, Dante, or Phoenix.DR2K said:
High damage is not really true. Her best combos which are a bit execution heavy don't touch some of other character's high damage combos.DR2K said:
Highest chip game is also not true. Hailstorm does good chip but you can't Hailstorm X Factor Hailstorm like you can with someone like Dorm. And it's the only move of Storm that does respectable chip. The chip market belongs to Dormammu in this game (and Phoenix but she doesn't count).
Huge range also isn't really true. Even Iron Man out ranges her air to air, not to mention that characters like Magneto, Zero, Dante, Trish and Wolverine beat out pretty much every button of Storm with their buttons.
You have to realize that some of the tools you listed are good but not what make a character top tier in this game. Her normals aren't as good as some of the other rushdown characters, her air to air is average, very little if any right/left mix up, her damage off of throw is decent not great plus she has no LVL3 to kill a character from full health without X Factor. Having 2 OTG hypers is just redundant and even then look how many of the top tiers have an OTG hyper.
It's true that if you add up all her tools it adds up to a very good character but that's just it. Her two closest comparisons Magneto/Trish generally outclass her in most areas.
Another thing is that you can't just be tiering characters on tools. Certainly I made the same mistake earlier on in the game and that is tiering character by their tools. If characters were tiered on their tools (meaning we are assuming near perfect execution and full mastery of characters) then it is pretty hard to argue that Phoenix/Dante/C Viper are the best 3 characters in this game. Some of the stuff that these characters have is just beyond GODLIKE, other characters wished that they had some of the stuff that these guys do. C Viper has near full screen block string pressure that is pretty much inescapable by a majority of the class, provided that you have the execution to keep it up.
However when you look at pure efficiency at winning a match by killing characters constantly with the least possible effort then it becomes very clear that Wolverine/Phoenix are the tops in this game with Wolverine edging out Phoenix because he is always a major threat. This is the criteria that Jwong and company used to come up with their tier list. Wolverine has all the right tools in this game to kill a character yet they are all available at a very low execution/work load cost. Imperceptible mix ups, both right/left and high/low including a cross up from near full screen, a BnB that does heavy damage and IMPOSSIBLE to drop, good health, power up hyper that makes everything safe, a dive kick that causes ground bounce, has massive priority and can cross up, great normals, good damage off of throw with an assist and safe pressure with the ability to pretty much by pass advancing guard. There are many characters who have access to these tools and more but NO ONE has it as EASY as Wolverine and that's why he is dominant. People underestimate ease of play and reliability when tiering characters and it's why Wolverine has escaped many people's top of the top list for quite some time now.
Most significant stealth nerf yet.Ultimoo said:
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