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Marvel vs Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds |OT2| Sold exclusively at Dollar Tree
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
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Karsticles
Member
This is why people make fun of you for never leaving the training room. There is no "versus" in these assists. Akuma assist is always called during Berserker Slash, which makes it perfectly safe, or right before Wolverine starts a blockstring on you, making it safe. This comparison does not exist in reality.
Plus, the startup on Liberation assist is notable - it's not fast at all. 3D0C on point is an awesome punish, but you will not be calling 3D0C as an assist to punish jack shit. It's 25-30 frames startup.
None of your charts mean anything. It's all theoryfighter nonsense.
I have almost 3000 matches with Dormammu. Among the characters I lose to most often, Wolverine is not among them. Among my friends I play with frequently, none of them use Wolverine. I'm not bothered by the character at all, because 99% of Wolverine players don't know what they're doing beyond spamming dive kicks and Berserker Slash every time Akuma's tatsu assist is ready.
I'm not salty at all. These are just the facts. Wolverine is likely the best character in the game. Wolverine vs. Dormammu is not in Dormammu's favor. Unibeam does not change that at all; Mass Change M plus a beam assist is old news, and experienced players begin blocking in the opposite direction the moment they see you teleport, because they know what's coming.
I once had my 3D0C nullified by a Tron Bonne spamming j.H. I was not pleased.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Karsticles said:
It's just a list of how projectiles clash -_-
Phoenix H fireball is 65 frames from startup to recovery, 2c1d hits 51 frames after you press the assist button. It's tight, and maybe even takes a little guessing, but it's not infeasible. This whole thing is just testing options in the off chance you want Dormammu to recover with iron Man on point. Of course it's better to use Liberation on point, I'm not an asshole.
Foro the assists clashing, I'm assuming you teleport before/at the same time wolverine does berserker slash, so you trade sides and Wolverine/Iron man clash. I'm not stupid, I tested this knowing full well how this stuff works. I don't have 3000 matches with Dormammu, but I do have a few hundred. I've fought Wolverine before.
If you can't think past the literal words I write, why even comment? the things I put down are just ideas and facts based on interactions. Never once did I say DORMAMMU BEATS WOLVERINE LOLOLOL, I said he could fight him in conjunction with Iron Man assist. For the record, I think it's 4-6 in Wolverine-Akuma's favor, and 3.5-6.5 in Wolverine-Sentinel's favor.
And that's assuming Phoenix is my 3rd character.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Fresh off SRK's front page.
Dante combos. What in the entire fuck. They should patch in his style meter from DMC3. Holy shit. O____O
Dante combos. What in the entire fuck. They should patch in his style meter from DMC3. Holy shit. O____O
Karsticles
Member
Oh, I assumed the entire post was a continuation of our conversation.
If you're in a position where you catch your opponent using TK Shot H, why not just Anti-air Proton Cannon? Significantly faster.
Right, and then what? The main issue is this:
Dormammu has to work hard, damn hard, to keep Wolverine off of him. Likely, he even needs an assist to maintain distance. This doesn't last forever though, and Wolverine will get in. When he does, it's pretty much over if the Wolverine player knows what he is doing.
Except for incompetent Wolverines that are easily zoned (who doesn't love a dive kick into Flame Carpet?), I have had the most success against Wolverine players by rushing them. If you watch competitive play, Wolverine plays have absolutely no respect for zoning, because it simply does not exist to them.
Your initial words were that this "is a viable anti-wolverine team". I'm not into making up matchup numbers, though. You said you think you'll stand a chance against Wolverine, but IMO, against an accomplished Wolverine player, you won't even get a chance to use Unibeam. The only Dormammu I ever see survive Wolverine when both are on point in competitive play is Wentinel, and it's because Gustaff Fire can keep the tatsu off of him for a brief period of time.
Whenever someone says "think past the words I write", I read "I am a bad communicator". See? I can think past them just fine.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm trying to be generous and keep you grounded in reality based on the experiences every single Dormammu user in the world has against Wolverine.
Man, those are awesome looking.
sixteen-bit
Member
That's awesomeOldschoolgamer said:
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
245 Hits / 2 mill+ damage with no Xfactor. lawd
"God's Beard!"
Member
Oldschoolgamer said:
4 bar building combo DROOL
Karsticles said:
Oh, not at all.
Karsticles said:
I play Twelve in 3s. I think anything that isn't 2-8 is in my favor.
Karsticles said:
I think people misunderstand what I'm posting. I literally never mean anything by the tech I post. It's just "here's what I found, maybe it's useful, maybe it's not, I hope it's interesting". I try to just drop as much raw data as I can. A lot of people see that and go "well GB you're an asshole, you'll never hit Akuma tatsu with a 1d0c liberation assist, go play people". It just frustrates me that people recognise that I have over 500 hours in training mode but still think that I don't know people hit assists at the same time they attack. It's kind of insulting.
I spent a long time playing with weird character combinations to make fun combos, and people called me an asshole. I admitted that it wasn't helping me be a better player but they didn't care that I was just having fun, even when I posted them as "crazy" combos.
So I dropped all my execution stuff, picked a simpler team and spent all my training mode time testing matchups and setups while going online much much more often to increase my character comfort. So I get mad when people still say "stop being a training mode troglodyte go play people lolol", or at least that's how I see people's reactions. Sorry if I misunderstood.
Prototype-03
Member
God's Beard said:
You have to understand, there's a lot of damage already done on your name. You're not gonna magically be okay with your theorycraft just because you started playing matches. Remember that a lot of these people have that much experience on you. My biggest suggestion is that before posting your theories, test them out online. If it remotely works, post them here and see if someone else can replicate it.
I know that we've had our clashes in the past but it seems that you're starting to take suggestions now so it's just my 2 cents. I only drop in once in a while in this thread although I stopped playing a long time ago and only input on things that I'm pretty confident on saying. It should be the same way for you. No point of throwing 100 ideas that only 1 or 2 things MAY stick.
Karsticles
Member
I don't play 3S, but I play Tager in BlazBlue, so I understand where you are coming from.
I always appreciated those posts, and I liked you spending so much time with Thor. I don't believe I was ever among those people.
I just got frustrated when you referred put Dormammu and anti-Wolverine in the same sentence. Partially because, at the last big tournament IPW was streaming, the commentator said the matchup is in Dormammu's favor because of Flame Carpet. Now that I have a better understanding of what you consider to be a "favorable" matchup, I consider our conflict resolved.
In general, my most frustrating Dormammu experience is just starting every match. I wish either of these things were done in Super MvC3
1) We couldn't move pre-match.
2) Assists cannot be called for the first 3 seconds of a match.
Starting matches against strong rushdown backed by Tron or Haggar is extremely frustrating in my experience, unless you also have Tron or Haggar.
Can you imagine someone that masters that character? That would be insane.Oldschoolgamer said:
"God's Beard!"
Member
And Acid Rain got buffed :-oenzo_gt said:
Karsticles
Member
And Dormammu got nerfed!
Oh. :-(
Oh. :-(
"God's Beard!"
Member
And Arthur!Karsticles said:
Karsticles
Member
What was/were his nerf(s)?
Edit: Nevermind, I remembered that he could do 8 daggers per toss.
Professor Beef
Banned
Oldschoolgamer said:
"God's Beard!"
Member
The only invincible air special in the game AND it gets unrecoverable knockdown! Yay!
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Oh Noezenzo_gt said:
Dive kix ain;t no ovahead no mo!!!! Wolvy ass now
"God's Beard!"
Member
Special moves and launchers generate the least amount of deterioration, and the hammer is a hard knockdown. Count how many non-launcher normals are in crazy dante combos. Not many.JeTmAn81 said:
There's only 2 in the first combo.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Ran into Viscant twice today. He was rocking a Dormammu/Spider-Man/? team and a Spider-Man/Dormammu/Deadpool team the second time I played him. Probably exploring his anti-Phoenix options. My first match was decent although I still lost. Knocked out his Dormammu, really can't remember his second character. Looks like he has some resets for Dormammu in the corner but I escaped those. Lost the match when I was wavedashing at him with X-23 and accidentally threw out a random hyper. The second game he made quick work off my team, mostly with Spider-Man. Not used to blocking the webcrawler at all.
I think its fascinating to see some of the top performers at tournaments -namely Viscant and EMP MastaCJ- being so well equipped matchup-wise and still having great execution from playing the majority of the matches online. There is also a slight difference in play from those two as well, they play their characters out of the norm because they've presumably adapted their tactics for the online community a lot more.Nils said:
And then you have Chris G who doesn't even own the game, and only plays it at tournaments.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
enzo_gt said:
Yeah. Wish I had been able to fight him three times in a row. I mashed the character selection in training mode to get back in there asap, but alas. I've encountered him before but that was when my own skill was significantly lower so those matches were less interesting. One of the fun things about the matches I played today was that I think I managed to avoid his Dormammu resets because of the Wesker reset/mixups he explained on the Crosscounter dvd.
sixteen-bit
Member
Can you blame him? That was prerelease.~Devil Trigger~ said:Oh Noez
Dive kix ain;t no ovahead no mo!!!! Wolvy ass now
"God's Beard!"
Member
Hey Karsticles, It's easier to relaunch with Iron Man using 0d0c liberation assist than Dark Hole Liberation redeemed? Also better for resets :-o
Also I fucked with a dude today.
He was stuck in the corner vs my Iron Man/Phoenix but i couldn't open him up so I called Phoenix assist. He freak the fuck out, x-factor hypered and I IRON AVENGER'd his ass right through it for the win. Godlike.
Liberation redeemed? Also better for resets :-oAlso I fucked with a dude today.
He was stuck in the corner vs my Iron Man/Phoenix but i couldn't open him up so I called Phoenix assist. He freak the fuck out, x-factor hypered and I IRON AVENGER'd his ass right through it for the win. Godlike.
omg omg omg i finally played masta cj online!!!!! this was one match i had been wanting for a while now. he whipped my ass good 10-3 but it was great playing him. i even won the first 2 matches in a row. lol i could tell he then got pissed off because he beat me 6 time in a row and was real aggressive. although he wasn't playing his normal dormammu team. he did play it once and perfected my ass. damn his akuma was so fucking annoying and it killed me a few times with x factor 3. hopefully i'll play him a few more times. i played viscant and now masta cj. i wish i could play combofiend and nerd josh.
hopefully i'll play him a few more times. i played viscant and now masta cj. i wish i could play combofiend and nerd josh."God's Beard!"
Member
Ok, I think vs Wolverine teams, I'll just start Iron Man first. I don't have anyone to play against locally and I can't just guess teams online, so I set up the wolverine/akuma dummy to a variety of typical setups. Call Akuma, dash, Berserker Slash. Attack, call akuma, Berserker Slash. call Akuma, dash in, ia xx divekick.
So far it seems like Iron Man does a much much better job of fighting wolverine/Akuma. He can stay in the air safely with double jump and bomb for a hit confirm, and on the ground repulsor blast hits on both sides, with the repulsor explosion creating a lot of breathing room. It seems like I can push block Wolverine and still have time to do Repulsor blast before he comes back in and tag both characters. Hits Wolverine right out of berserker slash. L version starts up in 11 frames and has 50 active frames plus spread.
So far it seems like Iron Man does a much much better job of fighting wolverine/Akuma. He can stay in the air safely with double jump and bomb for a hit confirm, and on the ground repulsor blast hits on both sides, with the repulsor explosion creating a lot of breathing room. It seems like I can push block Wolverine and still have time to do Repulsor blast before he comes back in and tag both characters. Hits Wolverine right out of berserker slash. L version starts up in 11 frames and has 50 active frames plus spread.
Just hit 4th Lord on PSN with my silly turtling team (Chris/Tron/Arthur), and it's been pretty fun. I wouldn't describe myself as being all that good, and the Tron assist is definitely a bit of a crutch, but playing this setup has at least helped me become a better blocker. A few Wolverines that use nothing but dive kick against me have died solely from being advancing guarded into Gustav Flame. Arthur is also an incredible anchor; I don't use much meter with Tron, so when I'm left with only Arthur, I tend to have a level 3 X-Factor/For the Princess ready to go, which can easily obliterate two characters at once.
My goal is to work on executing actual combos with my characters that go beyond the reliable stuff I'm stuck on (yeah, I'm one of those assholes that uses Tron's jumping H and jumping S to start nearly everything with her).
Edit: Also, the chip damage setups I can pull off with Chris and the dagger assist can get pretty nuts. I purposefully through out random grenade hyper combos because I know that they'll be forced to block machine gun > daggers > machine gun immediately after that. I also like throwing the "flame carpet" grenade when they have a new character coming in, and then using the grenade hyper. The fire forces them to also block each grenade, and then the gun > dagger > gun afterwards... yeah, you guys probably get the idea.
My goal is to work on executing actual combos with my characters that go beyond the reliable stuff I'm stuck on (yeah, I'm one of those assholes that uses Tron's jumping H and jumping S to start nearly everything with her).
Edit: Also, the chip damage setups I can pull off with Chris and the dagger assist can get pretty nuts. I purposefully through out random grenade hyper combos because I know that they'll be forced to block machine gun > daggers > machine gun immediately after that. I also like throwing the "flame carpet" grenade when they have a new character coming in, and then using the grenade hyper. The fire forces them to also block each grenade, and then the gun > dagger > gun afterwards... yeah, you guys probably get the idea.
you get used to it though. right now i'm not having much trouble with 3rd lord. i'm sure i'll be able to keep advancing as long as i keep playing. although i will say i play much smarter now. back then i went to ranked right away after turning on the 360 instead of getting warmed up by playing a few player matches first. i play pretty bad cold and that gave me a bunch of losses. wonder what my w/l ratio would be if i did things the way i do them now back then.Ultimoo said:
SolarPowered
Member
It's been days since I last fought someone form 5-9th lord group in player matches.smurfx said:
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Ultimoo said:
I set my locale to US again because having my real location kept matching me against the same damn players.
Karsticles
Member
Haha, if you can make a video of it, I'll add it to the main guide. Also, I'm not against Liberation assist, I just think it pretty much is only useful in combos, and I'm not set on the benefits actually being worth it.Hey Karsticles, It's easier to relaunch with Iron Man using 0d0c liberation assist than Dark Hole
Better for Iron Man resets, you mean?
Hahaha, mindgames! One of my favorite things to do against opponents low on life is throw out a Chaotic Flame while they're superjumping. This makes them think "omg Dormammu is open!" Right before they touch Dormammu, I DHC to Skrull's Inferno.
Thinking about dropping Dormammu on point entirely, though, in favor of someone who has no bad matchups and can build meter for him, like Trish.
Sounds smart. Does Akuma's assist negate Repulsar Blast? Like, if you're fighting Wolverine, can you just spam Iron Man's Repulsar Blast and be relatively safe from Berserker Slash/Dive Kick?
It's not like everyone becomes a pro. It's more that 99% of your opponents at 4th+ have an actual battle plan. They know how to block, they have setups, they have combos and strategies. It's pretty rare that you find someone free at above 4th, because they get demoted to 5th fast. There is without a doubt an upgrade in challenge in the ranks.
However, there's also an upgrade in "cheapness". You'll fight far more Wolverine, Phoenix, etc. users, because at this point, most people are playing to win. They take ranking seriously.
sixteen-bit
Member
He's good with all three characters, they're synergistic, DHC glitch-capable, have high health and fight well enough individually, even without X-Factor. I love Combo's teammr. puppy said:
"God's Beard!"
Member
Karsticles said:
Yes yes, Iron Man. I still don't know anything about Dorm resets, I've been working on my team by myself so far and haven't seen what's out there.
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