Karsticles said:
Dormammu may be high tier in UMvC3 game. I have to scoff at the idea of assigning tiers after we have, at most, two hours of non-shit gameplay to look at and judge characters by, and even that is good players just playing with fundamentals, with no real understanding of the changes that have been made yet.
Especially when you completely neglect the serious buffs characters like Morrigan have received, and throw Wolverine all the way to low tier because...what, Berserker Slash isn't invincible anymore? At top tier play, it was his instant overhead that dominated everything anyway, and that hasn't changed. He just has to work a bit to get in now; he's definitely still a really strong character.
Tron Bonne for bottom tier? Why? Losing her highly overrated j.H spam and some invincibility on her assist is totally worth being able to cancel out of her f.H (hello, half of her bad matchups just disappeared!), which also lets her solo relaunch and combo off of all her throws solo, plus Bonne Strike now has better recovery, meaning TKed drills will be more than +1 on block!
Felicia's Rolling Buckler doesn't bounce off of opponents anymore on block, which basically means she has a non-projectile invincible Charging Star that gives her frame advantage on block, and she can use Delta Kick in the air, which now causes a ground bounce, meaning she just gained Wolverine's day 1 bnb as a new combo.
Ghost Rider for the worst character in the game? You need an entire page, right now, explaining how you could come to such an absurd early conclusion.
Trish was already high-mid to low-high tier, and she got nothing but buffs (big ones). How is she worse off than She-Hulk, who received a nerf?
That's just the tip of the iceberg. That tier list is ridiculously bad on so many levels, but the biggest one is still this: it's too early to even talk about this. Why people don't learn from MvC3 Sentinel is beyond me.
Uh... I said that the tier list wasn't organized within the tiers, and that it was a GENERAL IMPRESSION based on the time I spent PLAYING THE GAME and considering changes. You're supposed to take it with a grain of salt. This is why I don't like posting this kind of stuff, people always jump straight for the tiers or charts or whatever and start yelling without reading the explanations. I didn't want to spend a lot of time repeating the same thing for every character, so I just made a list. It's not supposed to be something to pick apart.
Ghost Rider isn't the worst character in the game, he's at the bottom because I added him after the vanilla cast that I copy-pasted.
I actually thought I had trish moved up, sorry about that.
On Tron, I might just be biased against slow characters, or it might be the fact that I use Magneto who might as well be a 10-0 matchup now, but the only thing I was afraid of before was the assist, and that's gone now. It's the same reason I moved Hsien-Ko up, she has a unique assist now, although the fact that you have to set it up keeps her from being higher on my list.
As for Wolverine, that has more to do with my obsession with making tiers based on percentages of the cast. He was mid tier before but the numbers didn't match up and I thought the other mid tiers had more potential. I've also said in the other thread that people are going to start calling half the cast upper-mid tier, and they'd be right. Ultimately, what I call low tier doesn't mean they don't have good tools or whatever. It's just a means of organization that's far from perfect or be all end all. It's just an impression. I originally had the whole thing in 3 tiers so people wouldn't bitch as much, and I guess I should have kept it that way.
On Morrigan, I watched a ton of Morrigan players in UMVC3 over the weekend. Other than the iffy "buff" being able to steal meter with a slow fireball on hit only, she gets easier combos into missiles. Big whoop. I don't see how any of this is bringing her out of the ghetto.
It's like I said, across the Marvel threads people having been bugging about this and that character moving up. But the fact is, when you look back at how many characters that really is, you're moving up the whole cast. And you wouldn't be wrong for it. That's why I didn't label my tiers SABCD like everybody else. Because frankly, it's probably only A+,A,B, B-. The spread is going to be much, much smaller than vanilla.
At top tier play, it was his instant overhead that dominated everything anyway, and that hasn't changed. He just has to work a bit to get in now; he's definitely still a really strong character.
He absolutely is a strong character. His instant overhead isn't what made him godlike, or Trish and C.Viper would be up there with him as god tiers in vanilla. It was that he had a 4-way instant mixup, and that's gone.
Karsticles said:
The thing about Magneto's Attraction is that it can backfire. In one video, a Magneto player tried to pull his opponent into his assist's attack, but instead ended up giving his opponent a happy birthday. It's a double-edged sword.
I've also noted that Attraction is NOT a spammable attack. It has to be placed very intentionally. That said, It WILL force Ghost Rider to whiff. Hell, Magneto can just keep him from using those air normals at all if he feels like it.
Dahbomb said:
I didn't see the explanation.
The thing is that Ghost Rider's j.H leads into a combo from near full screen. No other character can do that and this is day -50 technology for him. If he wasn't slow he would be the best character in the game. He can just do j.H all day while calling assists and own like 20 characters on the roster.
C.Viper can, Arthur can, Dormammu can, Wesker can. There's a lot of characters that can start combos full screen. The only difference is that Ghost Rider can do it off a jumping attack that's never going to hit anybody.
I've already explained this before, but the basic idea is that Ghost Rider's normals aren't nearly as strong as people think, his command grab is slow and there's nothing else I need to pay attention to. Look, his assist could very well bring him up depending on how well it works with say, Chris or Dormammu, but I haven't seen anybody make good use of it and again, this is just a very loose list based on
impressions. It's really not worth worrying about.
Dahbomb said:
C Viper can kill with X Factor activation too it's just that her boost is less than others. That's apparently fixed in UMVC3 where everyone has the same general boosts. What it looks like to me is that the LVL1 boost is very minor (less than vanilla), LVL2 gives speed boost along with the damage boost from LVL2 and LVL3 boosts everything even more (but still less than LVL3 of Vanilla).
Hell, C.Viper can kill a sizeable portion of the cast without even using meter, let alone x-factor. She can do 800k+ damage meterless without the infinite. And then she has the infinite. Not that she needs either, she has among the best resets and mixups in the cast.
Dahbomb said:
Phoenix, Magneto and Dante are still top characters even with the "nerfs".
Magneto just wound up being a DIFFERENT top tier character, lol. They removed Magneto from the game and replaced him with Magneto.
Dahbomb said:
I found the God's Beard post about Ghost Rider:
Still doesn't sound like he is in the same tier as Captain America, Hsien Ko, Arthur, Haggar, Tron, Shuma, Chun Li etc.
At worst he sounds like a better Captain America.
Nah Cap's shield is way better than the chains. The shield stays out forever and pulls the opponent inwards. Plus Cap still has the anti-everything specials and supers, not to mention much better mobility. I dunno if he's so much better or more unique that it's worth using him over other characters, but that remains to be seen.
