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[GatorBait]

It is a little confusing to me that Capcom makes characters like Spider-Man and Iron Man so technically challenging to use. You would think they would make them fun, upper mid-tier characters because a lot of people initially gravitate toward them because of their popularity. It sucks to find out a character that popular isn't really a viable character choice if you want to have a decent shot of winning matches.

 

[Nyoro SF]

It is a little confusing to me that Capcom makes characters like Spider-Man and Iron Man so technically challenging to use. You would think they would make them fun, upper mid-tier characters because a lot of people initially gravitate toward them because of their popularity. It sucks to find out a character that popular isn't really a viable character choice if you want to have a decent shot of winning matches.

Are you me? I just said the exact same thing a week ago to a friend.

They have to remove some of the execution barrier to those characters.

 

[Kimosabae]

You're not the only one with the hots for Dorm, Karsticles. Character's aesthetically beautiful in every way. If my current team didn't take up so much gameplay time, I'd totally form another team around him.

It is a little confusing to me that Capcom makes characters like Spider-Man and Iron Man so technically challenging to use. You would think they would make them fun, upper mid-tier characters because a lot of people initially gravitate toward them because of their popularity. It sucks to find out a character that popular isn't really a viable character choice if you want to have a decent shot of winning matches.

This psychological dilemma only exists for those conscious of the competitive scene. Average Joe isn't going to go into training mode with Iron Man, grind out an autopilot combo through his own faculties and then pass the judgement that the character's too hard to play.

He's going to play online or vs with his friends spam cr. H, Unibeam and Proton Cannon. When he touches you: ABCD -> ABC Exchange etc.

etc. etc.

Are you me? I just said the exact same thing a week ago to a friend.

They have to remove some of the execution barrier to those characters.

No they don't. You just need to try harder to prove your fandom of the character to yourself. If an artificial execution barrier is what's keeping you from playing a character, you're not as much a fan of that character as you think/say you are.

 

[SolarPowered]

Can I ask what difference there is between aesthetics and gender? Seems like people who were down on DR2K are having a 180 all of a sudden.

It is a little confusing to me that Capcom makes characters like Spider-Man and Iron Man so technically challenging to use. You would think they would make them fun, upper mid-tier characters because a lot of people initially gravitate toward them because of their popularity. It sucks to find out a character that popular isn't really a viable character choice if you want to have a decent shot of winning matches.

Sometimes it comes down to a lack of time for balancing, sometimes the characters are a little hard to make unique and sometimes devs prioritize by popularity.

 

[Nyoro SF]

No they don't. You just need to try harder to prove your fandom of the character to yourself. If an artificial execution barrier is what's keeping you from playing a character, you're not as much a fan of that character as you think/say you are.

I like how you put me in the argument. When did I mention myself or the fact that I wanted to play those characters?

Try again, Sam.

 

[enzo_gt]

Can I ask what difference there is between aesthetics and gender? Seems like people who were down on DR2K are having a 180 all of a sudden.

Uh.. what similarities are there between the two topics of discussion? Having some sort of obligation that females MUST be in the game to meet an arbitrary quota is bullshit, liking characters based upon their looks/character itself is not, it's one of the main draws of the game.

I'll play Psylocke if she was put into this game, I won't ever play She-Hulk.

 

[Karsticles]

3D fighters in general suck. There's very little concept of spacing involved, which is what makes fighting games enjoyable to me.

If a character doesn't look good or isn't attractive enough playstyle-wise for me to warm up to their aesthetics, I won't play them. Could care less about competitive viability and the sort.

I try to find a balance. Dormammu is my favorite character, but I've just come to accept that he's not meant to be used on point in this game, and I'll only use him on point if I'm not taking the match too seriously or just feel like using my Skrull team. It's pretty awesome that I'm 6 months into the game and still trying to figure out my team.

It is a little confusing to me that Capcom makes characters like Spider-Man and Iron Man so technically challenging to use. You would think they would make them fun, upper mid-tier characters because a lot of people initially gravitate toward them because of their popularity. It sucks to find out a character that popular isn't really a viable character choice if you want to have a decent shot of winning matches.

Well, a character always needs to either be:
1) Challenging through yomi.
2) Challenging through needing a ton of knowledge about the character.
3) Challenging through needing a lot of match-up specific knowledge.
4) Challenging through execution.

There's probably more, but my point is that Spider-man and Iron Man require very little yomi (high yomi: Hulk, Dormammu). Their matchups aren't particularly versatile because they're so offensive. So, you have intimate character knowledge, and execution left. /shrug Just my take on it, but I feel like every character needs some form of depth.

You're not the only one with the hots for Dorm, Karsticles. Character's aesthetically beautiful in every way. If my current team didn't take up so much gameplay time, I'd totally form another team around him.

My Super-Skrull is your Dormammu.

Can I ask what difference there is between aesthetics and gender? Seems like people who were down on DR2K are having a 180 all of a sudden.

Just to be clear, I am not among those that criticized DR2K, and I wish UMvC3 had at least 1 female on each side. I'm the guy that pretty much refuses to play humans just because I don't like the aesthetics.

 

[Kimosabae]

I like how you put me in the argument. When did I mention myself or the fact that I wanted to play those characters?

Try again, Sam.

Um you mentioned Iron Man and Spidey being hard to play, specifically, though I responded to you more abstractly. I was arguing against the principle you put forward.

Sam.

3D fighters in general suck. There's very little concept of spacing involved, which is what makes fighting games enjoyable to me.

Haha nah. Sorry, dude, but only a person that doesn't play 3D fighters would make a comment like that. It's pretty ignorant.

 

[SolarPowered]

Uh.. what similarities are there between the two topics of discussion? Having some sort of obligation that females MUST be in the game to meet an arbitrary quota is bullshit, liking characters based upon their looks/character itself is not, it's one of the main draws of the game.

I'll play Psylocke if she was put into this game, I won't ever play She-Hulk.

You can just as easily say that aesthetic characters have quota to be met.

It's not like we would wall fall over ourselves to play a game full of Shuma Goraths.

3D fighters in general suck. There's very little concept of spacing involved, which is what makes fighting games enjoyable to me.

I'd say spacing is even more important than in 2D. Being off by just a few degrees can mean a huge difference and it definitely takes a lot of coordination to make strings work well when viewing angles are taken into account.

Never expected such a general statement from you.

 

[Karsticles]

Haha nah. Sorry, dude, but only a person that doesn't play 3D fighters would make a comment like that. It's pretty ignorant.

I've played plenty of them. It's fine if you disagree, but I find S-Kill's argument very convincing:
http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/2d-vs-3d.91156/

It's not like we would wall fall over ourselves to play a game full of Shuma Goraths.

What about a game full of Darkstalkers? ;-)

 

[SolarPowered]

What about a game full of Darkstalkers? ;-)

Full of Sasquatches?

eurgh...

 

[Nyoro SF]

Um you mentioned Iron Man and Spidey being hard to play, specifically, though I responded to you more abstractly. I was arguing against the principle you put forward.

Sam.

Artificial execution barriers are unnecessary. But what's even worse than these artificial barriers is that they're assigned to these two incredibly popular characters.

 

[LordAlu]

Dormammu is my favorite character, but I've just come to accept that he's not meant to be used on point in this game, and I'll only use him on point if I'm not taking the match too seriously or just feel like using my Skrull team.

May I ask what has caused you to drop Dormammu on point? I play rushdown with Dorm on point and I enjoy it greatly, but I'd like to know what your reasons are for dropping him, especially after reading your (excellent) guide on SRK?

 

[SolarPowered]

I've played plenty of them. It's fine if you disagree, but I find S-Kill's argument very convincing:
http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/2d-vs-3d.91156/

This was a fantastic read. I wish people would have linked to this kind of thing more often. It would do a lot more for Seth's reputation as opposed to being Capcom's FG spokesperson.

God's Beard should take a look at it. I think the part covering MvC2 assists says a lot about why Capcom seemingly reversed it's decision in regards to invincible assists in MvC3. Also, I think that beams have made great strides in building setup opportunities just like fireballs now that we've got all these teleporting characters. Wesker might not be nearly as good without the beams to cover his teleport.

Thanks for the link.

 

["God's Beard!"]

3D fighters in general suck. There's very little concept of spacing involved, which is what makes fighting games enjoyable to me.

Uhhh... Soul Calibur and Virtua Fighter? Spacing doesn't always mean fireballs and low forwards. It can mean knowing when to sidestep direct moves, what range you can interrupt attacks and most importantly, your position in relation to your opponent and the end of the stage, which is far more important in 3D fighters than 2D.

 

[Karsticles]

Full of Sasquatches?

eurgh...

Sasquatches, Jiang'shi...

May I ask what has caused you to drop Dormammu on point? I play rushdown with Dorm on point and I enjoy it greatly, but I'd like to know what your reasons are for dropping him, especially after reading your (excellent) guide on SRK?

What's your team? If you use Haggar or Tron, then I think it's doable, but Dormammu's primary problem is that he is ridiculously slow. He has absolutely no hope of keeping competent top tier users off of him, and he starts matches at a disadvantage because his backwards walk is very slow, so Wolverine/Wesker/whatever gets to start the match on top of him.

Dormammu is not a dominant zoner in this game; he gets smashed hard by all bullet characters and has to rush them. If your bullet-using opponent uses Haggar assist, the matchup is extremely difficult for Dormammu on point because he's not fast enough to bait those assists and punish them.

Dormammu is requires assists to function, but he also is a high-risk character that pays dearly for mistakes. He needs meter to cover those mistakes. On point, you often play without the meter you need to make those decisions. Without meter, your opponent doesn't have to be as scared of Dormammu. If you've watched F. Champ play, his Dormammu gets wrecked where many others would not simply because his opponents know he won't risk burning a meter to punish their mistakes because he's saving for Dark Phoenix.

Putting him second or third resolved all of these problems. I'm not saying you can't win with him on point, but you are starting your fight going uphill. If you can survive the free opening mix-up your opponent gets on you, you are still pretty strong, but still not as strong as you would be with a battery helping you out. In UMvC3, these problems will become even more glaring, because you can no longer hide behind invincible assists if you want to use him on point, and Flame Carpet got a huge nerf.

I think I posted the theoryfighter for the new direction I plan to take Dormammu on on here; I'm not sure if you read it, but I think it's a better way to use him, and will compliment the UMvC3 changes well.

 

[Kimosabae]

That Seth Killian article is from, like, 2000. Not only would I not doubt that his perspective has changed since then, but the article is highly bigoted, just like much of that community was back then (in relation to today).

Saying 3D fighters have no sense of spacing is like saying a linebacker has no sense of pacing in relation to a meter runner. Both involve pacing in the abstract in degrees relative to their respective sports. One critiquing the other regarding this detail is bound to be disastrous. Just because you've played many 3D fighters doesn't imply you've played 3D fighters much.

Also, while Soulcalibur (i.e.) doesn't have many instances of projectiles, the ranges are clearly more diverse than a say, Tekken or VF. This is obviously intentional. It's not always about fireballs.

Artificial execution barriers are unnecessary. But what's even worse than these artificial barriers is that they're assigned to these two incredibly popular characters.

Yeah, you're confused. Read my posts again.

 

[Nyoro SF]

Yeah, you're confused. Read my posts again.

Ah, fuck it. I'm in an internet argument.

 

[Karsticles]

This was a fantastic read. I wish people would have linked to this kind of thing more often. It would do a lot more for Seth's reputation as opposed to being Capcom's FG spokesperson.

God's Beard should take a look at it. I think the part covering MvC2 assists says a lot about why Capcom seemingly reversed it's decision in regards to invincible assists in MvC3. Also, I think that beams have made great strides in building setup opportunities just like fireballs now that we've got all these teleporting characters. Wesker might not be nearly as good without the beams to cover his teleport.

Thanks for the link.

If you go to the main forum, he has written a ton of stuff, and I've read all of it. The guy has an excellent fundamental understanding of fighting games. Yeah, his discussion about the evolution of assists has given me some great insight on why they are the way they are now.

Uhhh... Soul Calibur and Virtua Fighter? Spacing doesn't always mean fireballs and low forwards. It can mean knowing when to sidestep direct moves, what range you can interrupt attacks and most importantly, your position in relation to your opponent and the end of the stage, which is far more important in 3D fighters than 2D.

Most of that is about knowing frame data more than spacing. Quite simply, you will never, ever find the diversity of playstyles that exist in a game like MvC3 in a 3D fighter. The 3D environment is just too limiting.

That Seth Killian article is from, like, 2000. Not only would I not doubt that his perspective has changed since then, but the article is highly bigoted, just like much of that community was back then (in relation to today).

I doubt his opinion has changed since then, but I won't get into that.

Also, while Soulcalibur (i.e.) doesn't have many instances of projectiles, the ranges are clearly more diverse than a say, Tekken or VF. This is obviously intentional. It's not always about fireballs.

Soul Calibur is the only 3D fighter I can even remotely enjoy, but it's still just on the level of screwing around; I couldn't ever take it seriously.

 

[enzo_gt]

You can just as easily say that aesthetic characters have quota to be met.

It's not like we would wall fall over ourselves to play a game full of Shuma Goraths.

No you can't, you can't just say "there needs to be a quota of aesthetically good looking characters in this game" because good aesthetics is subjectives. Being male/female is not. Unless your Poison or the Pyro.

And yeah I also run Dorm on point with my Dormammu/Iron Man/Super-Skrull team. Haven't seen any huge disadvantages there, assists help me get in and extend combos beautifully. Would you say this order is not optimal, Karst? I like leaving Skrull as my anchor, and otherwise I'm not so sure of Iron Man on point. Not confident is the word.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

Saying there is no spacing involved in 3d games is a very ignorant statement.

Somebody get markman in here to defend tekken! Haha.

 

[Kimosabae]

You're not worth replying to if you honestly think that those barriers are worth placing.

No, you're not worth replying to, because you can't take half a second to comprehend the theory I've presented: ALL execution barriers are artificial. ALL OF THEM. Being able to play a character "Well" is an arbitrary standard set by authorities - in this case: the fighting game community. Those not conscious of what said community is doing with the character can't be deterred by any cited "execution barriers".

What exactly makes Iron Man "hard to play"? Name things. You won't be able to cite anything that wasn't generated by the competitive scene or combo videos. You can easily play Iron Man without being a bitch to those standards.

GET IT?

 

[Riposte]

There is no such thing as "artificial barriers". Everything in a videogame is artificial to begin with. (Kimo beat me)


Also I like most of VF characters. Think they are both charming and human-looking(for lack of a better phrase, since realistic doesn't cut it).

 

[LordAlu]

Sasquatches, Jiang'shi...


What's your team? If you use Haggar or Tron, then I think it's doable, but Dormammu's primary problem is that he is ridiculously slow. He has absolutely no hope of keeping competent top tier users off of him, and he starts matches at a disadvantage because his backwards walk is very slow, so Wolverine/Wesker/whatever gets to start the match on top of him.

Dormammu is not a dominant zoner in this game; he gets smashed hard by all bullet characters and has to rush them. If your bullet-using opponent uses Haggar assist, the matchup is extremely difficult for Dormammu on point because he's not fast enough to bait those assists and punish them.

Dormammu is requires assists to function, but he also is a high-risk character that pays dearly for mistakes. He needs meter to cover those mistakes. On point, you often play without the meter you need to make those decisions. Without meter, your opponent doesn't have to be as scared of Dormammu. If you've watched F. Champ play, his Dormammu gets wrecked where many others would not simply because his opponents know he won't risk burning a meter to punish their mistakes because he's saving for Dark Phoenix.

Putting him second or third resolved all of these problems. I'm not saying you can't win with him on point, but you are starting your fight going uphill. If you can survive the free opening mix-up your opponent gets on you, you are still pretty strong, but still not as strong as you would be with a battery helping you out. In UMvC3, these problems will become even more glaring, because you can no longer hide behind invincible assists if you want to use him on point, and Flame Carpet got a huge nerf.

I think I posted the theoryfighter for the new direction I plan to take Dormammu on on here; I'm not sure if you read it, but I think it's a better way to use him, and will compliment the UMvC3 changes well.

I do use Haggar purely for his assist (call assist, teleport behind for attempted crossup) and Wesker for his sheer OTG usefulness. To be honest I've been thinking of switching Wesker to point due to his ability to build meter (since his hyper is pretty rubbish), but I enjoyed playing Dormammu too much, and Wesker is pretty hard to use online especially against overseas opponents, which are pretty much the only ones I come across now.

You make a lot of very good points though so I'm definitely gonna make the switch - gonna have to get some real practice in with Wesker!

 

[Karsticles]

Saying there is no spacing involved in 3d games is a very ignorant statement.

That would be very ignorant. Who said that?

And yeah I also run Dorm on point with my Dormammu/Iron Man/Super-Skrull team. Haven't seen any huge disadvantages there, assists help me get in and extend combos beautifully. Would you say this order is not optimal, Karst? I like leaving Skrull as my anchor, and otherwise I'm not so sure of Iron Man on point. Not confident is the word.

I think that's a team where there is no clear best order; no matter what order you choose, you lose something. The worst thing to do is clearly put Iron Man on point, because then Dormammu and Skrull both have no ranged support, and they both like it. Beyond that, think an argument can be made for the order going in any fashion, but I imagine with that team that XF3 Skrull saves your butt a lot, because Iron Man isn't particularly threatening when backed by Skrull.

 

[Neki]

Not as long Tron assist lives. I've never run into insurmountable barriers before and not even Phoenix has stopped me. Tron and Haggar are the unmovable object to my unstoppable force.

tron assist isn't that bad.

 

[Kimosabae]

That would be very ignorant. Who said that?

Please, I would LOVE to see you convince us that the distinction being made between:

"No SENSE of spacing" and "No spacing", isn't subatomical and utterly ridiculous.

 

[Karsticles]

I do use Haggar purely for his assist (call assist, teleport behind for attempted crossup) and Wesker for his sheer OTG usefulness. To be honest I've been thinking of switching Wesker to point due to his ability to build meter (since his hyper is pretty rubbish), but I enjoyed playing Dormammu too much, and Wesker is pretty hard to use online especially against overseas opponents, which are pretty much the only ones I come across now.

Ah, well there you go. Whenever I come across someone who plays him on point and has no problems, they always have Haggar/Tron there. I don't mean that as anything against those folks, just that it's a testament to how unsuitable Dormammu is for the first spot on a team without a very specific team setup.

You make a lot of very good points though so I'm definitely gonna make the switch - gonna have to get some real practice in with Wesker!

I think Double Lariat losing invincibility is going to provide a lot more team options. I look forward to more versatility in who I can pick, at least.

Please, I would LOVE to see you convince us that the distinction being made between:

"No SENSE of spacing" and "No spacing", isn't utterly ridiculous.

My statement:

There's very little concept of spacing involved, which is what makes fighting games enjoyable to me.

Very little =/= no, and I'm speaking relative to 2D fighters of course.

tron assist isn't that bad.

It depends on who you use. I don't find Gustaff Fire annoying as Dormammu, because Dormammu's trijump j.H crosses up behind her; people who don't know Dormammu's rushdown game usually just give me a lot of free assist kills.

 

[sleepykyo]

Viscant analyzes his EVO 2011 Grand Finals MVC 3 match
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNQ_cRVEE_c&feature=youtube_gdata

So awesome. I'm surprised that he puts out as much sincere analysis as he does.

 

[SolarPowered]

So awesome. I'm surprised that he puts out as much sincere analysis as he does.

It is insane how many things can go through a pro players mind. I was definitely impressed by the video. Far more than I expected to be, honestly.

No you can't, you can't just say "there needs to be a quota of aesthetically good looking characters in this game" because good aesthetics is subjectives. Being male/female is not. Unless your Poison or the Pyro.

And yeah I also run Dorm on point with my Dormammu/Iron Man/Super-Skrull team. Haven't seen any huge disadvantages there, assists help me get in and extend combos beautifully. Would you say this order is not optimal, Karst? I like leaving Skrull as my anchor, and otherwise I'm not so sure of Iron Man on point. Not confident is the word.

Aesthetics are not nearly as subjective as you suggest. Most of the male superheroes are derivatives of the same musclebound design with small differences here and there like armor, clothing and flaming heads.

Most people would be hard pressed to buy the game if most of these characters were slobs covered in greasy wifebeaters and five o clock shadow lol. I definitely can't make the argument that gender and aesthetics are 1:1 in similarity, but it as a lot closer than most people might think when it comes to something like games.

Sasquatches, Jiang'shi...

That wouldn't be bad at all, really. I do like Mahvel's diversity though.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I read all of Seth's articles a long time ago. I agree with most of it, disagree with some of it. Still, I didn't see anything in that article that said they should nerf assists from Marvel 2. It just said that MVC1 assists weren't handled well. And they weren't.

 

[Nyoro SF]

No, you're not worth replying to, because you can't take half a second to comprehend the theory I've presented: ALL execution barriers are artificial. ALL OF THEM. Being able to play a character "Well" is an arbitrary standard set by authorities - in this case: the fighting game community. Those not conscious of what said community is doing with the character can't be deterred by any cited "execution barriers".

What exactly makes Iron Man "hard to play"? Name things. You won't be able to cite anything that wasn't generated by the competitive scene or combo videos. You can easily play Iron Man without being a bitch to those standards.

GET IT?

Piece of cake.
1) Having incredibly short and fast hit confirms that are very unsafe if blocked.
2) A slow launcher with a vertical-only hitbox that can't be used as an anti-air.
3) Flight cancel for air to ground attacks and for midair combos requires stupid timing.
4) One of the toughest Level 3 followups.
5) Comboing off Repulsor Blast.

When I say artificial of course I am referring to things that are made intensely difficult for no apparent reason. Making motions (only used in combos) that require a tight window difficult to execute is a very stupid design choice.

I guess it's too hard to comprehend that "artificial" means "extra difficulty padded on for the sole reason of being difficult"?

It's bad that these barriers are thrown up on moves that only are required for something simple as matching the damage of other characters. It's even worse when these inconsistent requirements are added on to two of Marvel's most popular characters.

 

[crimsonspider89]

I prefer to play characters I have fun with but aesthetics do come into a fact with me. Why I don't use Dante/Wesker, I despise there designs.

But event though I dislike DMC I will use Trish occasionally. Just because I like laying traps.

I am fine with some females but don't want them for just being females.

I want BoF2 Nina and Scarlet Witch mainly for gameplay purposes.

BoF2 Nina with some awesome projectiles, some flight cancels as well as a kick ass flight.

Scarlet Witch with a counter based, mind fuck, trap based gameplay. Like being able to teleport opponent to the opposite side. Or doing a fake teleport, making the opponent take 1 damage but cause a soft knockdown or being able to lock out the meter of the opponent.

 

[SolarPowered]

I read all of Seth's articles a long time ago. I agree with most of it, disagree with some of it. Still, I didn't see anything in that article that said they should nerf assists from Marvel 2. It just said that MVC1 assists weren't handled well. And they weren't.

Must've been a typo there on my part.

I prefer to play characters I have fun with but aesthetics do come into a fact with me. Why I don't use Dante/Wesker, I despise there designs.

But event though I dislike DMC I will use Trish occasionally. Just because I like laying traps.

I am fine with some females but don't want them for just being females.

I want BoF2 Nina and Scarlet Witch mainly for gameplay purposes.

BoF2 Nina with some awesome projectiles, some flight cancels as well as a kick ass flight.

Scarlet Witch with a counter based, mind fuck, trap based gameplay. Like being able to teleport opponent to the opposite side. Or doing a fake teleport, making the opponent take 1 damage but cause a soft knockdown or being able to lock out the meter of the opponent.

Team Trenchcoat...

:'(

tron assist isn't that bad.

It is a terror. A blight upon this beautiful land.

 

[Neki]

the only time you got blown up by tron assist is when I do the off-screen cross-up with her + Sentinel. besides that, you're blocking against it better. and I have a hard time hit-confirming off of it with Ammy. I guess it does ruin your rushdown though. YOU CAN'T WAIT FOR UMVC3, amirite?

 

[Kimosabae]

Piece of cake.
1) Having incredibly short and fast hit confirms that are very unsafe if blocked.
2) A slow launcher with a vertical-only hitbox that can't be used as an anti-air.
3) Flight cancel for air to ground attacks and for midair combos requires stupid timing.
4) One of the toughest Level 3 followups.
5) Comboing off Repulsor Blast.

Thanks for supporting my original point.

Look at the very language you're using to describe IM's barrier. How do you even know what a 'hit confirm' is? What about 'Flight Cancel'?

Do you really think Average Joe complains about these things when he plays Iron Man?

Iron Man's S Hitbox isn't vertical only and actually has great horizontal range - it's just placed higher than most.

When I say artificial of course I am referring to things that are made intensely difficult for no apparent reason. Making motions (only used in combos) that require a tight window difficult to execute is a very stupid design choice.

Yes, because when the community develops "hard" to execute things in games, these were always the intentions of the game's developers and never a product of a competitive collective's ingenuity; every time, without fail.

I guess it's too hard to comprehend that "artificial" means "extra difficulty padded on for the sole reason of being difficult"?

No, I'm just not simple-minded enough to construct arbitrary definitions that support my arguments.

It's bad that these barriers are thrown up on moves that only are required for something simple as matching the damage of other characters. It's even worse when these inconsistent requirements are added on to two of Marvel's most popular characters.

A lot of IM ABCD shit is still quite powerful, dude. IM generally hits hard.

 

[enzo_gt]

It is insane how many things can go through a pro players mind. I was definitely impressed by the video. Far more than I expected to be, honestly.

Aesthetics are not nearly as subjective as you suggest. Most of the male superheroes are derivatives of the same musclebound design with small differences here and there like armor, clothing and flaming heads.

Most people would be hard pressed to buy the game if most of these characters were slobs covered in greasy wifebeaters and five o clock shadow lol. I definitely can't make the argument that gender and aesthetics are 1:1 in similarity, but it as a lot closer than most people might think when it comes to something like games.

That wouldn't be bad at all, really. I do like Mahvel's diversity though.

Wolverine.

At least, needs to be wolverine's alt anyways. Or Biker Wolverine.

 

[Riposte]

How broken would it be if DPs(including supers and assists) were unblockable against opponents in the air(though characters coming in would be still be able to block until they acted or hit the ground)?

EDIT: Hahaha, made myself laugh. I mean Dragon punch-like moves. Stinger, etc.

 

[shaowebb]

So what kind of assists are you guys hoping to see pop up in Ultimate?

For me:

• More walls like Jam Session
• Some form of projectile reflecting assist
• A projectie proof dash assist
• More wall bouncers
• More OTG assists.

 

["God's Beard!"]

How broken would it be if DPs(including supers and assists) were unblockable against opponents in the air(though characters coming in would be still be able to block until they acted or hit the ground)?

EDIT: Hahaha, made myself laugh. I mean Dragon punch-like moves. Stinger, etc.

Darkstalkers and Jojo's have a lot of air-unblockable moves, so it's not unprecedented, but it can be confusing.

 

[LProtag]

What do you guys use for stick setups? Weak, medium, heavy on the top and special, assist 1, assist 2 on the bottom? Kinda makes sense so that you have your thumb and three fingers on all the attack buttons, but I dunno if something works better.

 

[SolarPowered]

I've made my peace regarding MvC3 and it's sequel. I just don't feel anything amazingly positive or negative about it right now.

Hell, I'm just trying to gauge the interest among my friends.

 

[Karsticles]

So what kind of assists are you guys hoping to see pop up in Ultimate?

For me:

* More walls like Jam Session
* Some form of projectile reflecting assist
* A projectie proof dash assist
* More wall bouncers
* More OTG assists.

I would also love more walls like Jam Session. I'd also like some Repulsor Blast-like assists (big explosion around your character), and more beams. I don't think we need more OTG assists, we just need the current OTG assists to be better.

Jam Session is like...top 5 assists for Dormammu, but I hate Dante so I don't use it. It turns so many difficult matchups for Dormammu into something manageable, and all of his good matchups become roflingly easy.

Darkstalkers and Jojo's have a lot of air-unblockable moves, so it's not unprecedented, but it can be confusing.

BlazBlue, too.

What do you guys use for stick setups? Weak, medium, heavy on the top and special, assist 1, assist 2 on the bottom? Kinda makes sense so that you have your thumb and three fingers on all the attack buttons, but I dunno if something works better.

Yup.

Hell, I'm just trying to gauge the interest among my friends.

I'm moving to Chicago, so I'll have - ZOMG - a local scene!

 

[Touch]

So what kind of assists are you guys hoping to see pop up in Ultimate?

For me:

• More walls like Jam Session
• Some form of projectile reflecting assist
• A projectie proof dash assist
• More wall bouncers
• More OTG assists.

More wall type assists would be welcomed. I have been using Dante a lot lately really just for the assist, even though I know he is a amazing point character. Also, I would like to see some actual GTFO me assists.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I just want more invincible assists. That, and to be able to burn stocks for MODOK's assists.

I'm moving too, so I'll have people to play against for once when I'm in San Francisco. Art School will take up most of my time, though.

 

[Karsticles]

I just want more invincible assists. That, and to be able to burn stocks for MODOK's assists.

Only if those invincible assists don't allow for combos (SRKs and such), I'm cool with that. Agreed on MODOK, that would be BA, but I don't know how they could work it.

I'm moving too, so I'll have people to play against for once when I'm in San Francisco. Art School will take up most of my time, though.

Ditto. Going to grad school, so I'm simultaneously excited while knowing that I can't let Marvel dominate my time like it does now.

 

[Kimosabae]

I want to see Assists differentiated more. Too many of them fall into very distinct, fighting game tropes/categories.

Next game needs a Custom Assist option.

 

[USD]

New shirt in the Broken Tier IFC Yipes Collection:

CABEZA DE FUEGO

 

[Tobe]

if there is something i want in umvc3 is the return of the high-low mixup instead of the left right shit we have in vanilla mvc3. though im pretty sure that it will be the same

 

[SolarPowered]

I want to see Assists differentiated more. Too many of them fall into very distinct, fighting game tropes/categories.

Next game needs a Custom Assist option.

The return of Jill's herb assist imminent?