Yeah it makes raw special projectiles like spidey or hawkeye that much weaker. You can reflect dante's gun and combo off of it too!
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Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite |OT| Marvel vs. Capcom: 4 Female Characters
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Yeah it makes raw special projectiles like spidey or hawkeye that much weaker. You can reflect dante's gun and combo off of it too!
JeTmAn81
Member
Son plssssssssssssss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQF1WVlT0nw
TRIGGER WARNING:
*Blurry video
*Bad play
*Tier whoring with Tron (not Dante)
*Puzzle pieces
TheSpoiler
Member
Potato quality but alright you pass.
Still gotta play Ryu to be considered kinda honest though.
Pretty sure you guys either saw or thought of this: The current Meta of MvC:I
The question here is simple: Is the current Meta something to be concerned about? Or is it too early to question the Meta if things are still being discovered?
The question here is simple: Is the current Meta something to be concerned about? Or is it too early to question the Meta if things are still being discovered?
TheSpoiler
Member
"The only stone you need forever is the reality stone."
"Yeah but other stones are strong too, and maybe we should test using the time stone against."
"No, here's a meme. REALITY STONE REALITY STONE"
That's literally my Twitter right now.
"Yeah but other stones are strong too, and maybe we should test using the time stone against."
"No, here's a meme. REALITY STONE REALITY STONE"
That's literally my Twitter right now.
yeah this game is done this is the meta for life
welcome to the reality show
still using time because I think the storm is hilarious, though like power it feels less impactful than some of the other storms in being able to for your game on the opponent (though I think time is slightly better than power in this regard)
I think both power and time should buff their stone activations during storm to help with this, like giving power stone activation armor and significantly increasing the speed of time stone dash for the duration
Both power and time are great, just not as plug and play as reality.
Power is nasty in the neutral and very strong as an active to get a lvl 3 pstone combo twice in a game. I also believe just using it gives you stone meter, you dont hace to hit anything? You can also use it to provide a wall bounce during a combo if your team doesn't have access to one. The caveat is that it doesnt help you open ppl up (beyond pstone being a great button).
Time is really useful w/ keepaway and low mobility heroes. I dont really know the potential of the activation (right now it's just hithithithit lvl 3), but i think i read that it makes tags faster, there mighy be some tech there. I think it might also decrease the recovery on time dash but that might be placebo. The stone's strength atm is how it shores up certain characters, plus it works extremely well against reality stone activation. Prob has decent mixup applications too
Power is nasty in the neutral and very strong as an active to get a lvl 3 pstone combo twice in a game. I also believe just using it gives you stone meter, you dont hace to hit anything? You can also use it to provide a wall bounce during a combo if your team doesn't have access to one. The caveat is that it doesnt help you open ppl up (beyond pstone being a great button).
Time is really useful w/ keepaway and low mobility heroes. I dont really know the potential of the activation (right now it's just hithithithit lvl 3), but i think i read that it makes tags faster, there mighy be some tech there. I think it might also decrease the recovery on time dash but that might be placebo. The stone's strength atm is how it shores up certain characters, plus it works extremely well against reality stone activation. Prob has decent mixup applications too
Me likey.
Spidey/Dorm sounds ridiculous on paper. 👀👀
I think their activations are very good, I just think their storms are not as powerful as they should be.
I do think the time storm activation lowers the delay between when you can swap, which is what I think makes it a little more potent than power in terms of having your storm be a means to wrestle control back (since you can more aggressively go for tag in mixups). It doesn't seem like that element leads to any more potent actual combos though since really if you can land a hit scaling-wise you might as well just mash HP as many times as you can into super(s).
I think the main leverage Reality / Space / Soul have right now is that they also have great activations, but their storms are just more forceful in screen control. I don't think all 6 storms necessarily need to have that much screen control power, but they should be getting something more potent to compensate if they don't, which is why I'd like to see those storms buff up their stone activations instead.
Yeah in terms of activations they def rate higher. Reality activation feels a little weak insofar that it's hard to be successful if you are down 1 and they know how to block but it's still pretty much a "my turn now" activation compared to time and power. Im content to wait and see though
roflwaffles
Member
Is Dante considered cheap now? I played Dante in 3 since day 1 and he was always held back by his slow normals.
His normals are freaking insane and he has specials that basically are a fit for, well, anyone. I don't play him so I can't really comment as much as people that know more about the character, but he's top tier for sure.
His normals still look pretty slow (i think fastest is c.lk?), but his tools are incredible for this game, he's considered one of the stronger ones and versatile to boot. I dunno if he's necesarily cheap but he's def very strong. He's a bit weak close up but this game has a lot of ways to shore up that weakness. Many consider him top 3 during this week 2 meta
direct_quote
Member
Dante was top tier in vanilla MvC3.
Waddle Dee
Member
Thanos' command grab truly is 'disgusting'!
Didn't make a post about it when I posted the link originally but this post is hella knee jerk and is just very ill-informed. So I am just going to elaborate.
Nevermind that this is week 1-2, let's just talk about the main points covered in the video.
*One of the first points that is brought is that the Tag system makes moves too safe. I don't know what VS games these guys have been playing but ever since assists were in the series, that's what this series has been all about. You throw out assists to keep yourself safe or you throw your moves to keep your assist safe. This is the core part of the VS series when these mechanics were added. Tag system is merely an extension of that and it's not even that safe because people are still getting their point characters punished after a tag system. This is an invalid criticism of the game's meta especially when compared to previous VS games.
*There is some comments about no zoning or trap based teams. Did they not watch the same SCR that we did? FChamp won most of top 8 by zoning with Dormammu in many tight situations. Now this game does not have the traditional form of zoning where one character just sits at the corner of the screen and keeps throwing stuff while covered by an assist... the zoning in this game is far more dynamic. I would go as far as to say that this game at the highest level or in optimized team will not have full zoning teams or full rushdown teams... you need to be playing both fluidly. Champ zones with Dorm and then he uses the zoning hits to convert into real damage with Ultron. Or he zones, they blocks and Ultron gets mix ups. This is how the game is played at a high level and good teams need some zoning to check the opponent and to set up offense.
The same thing applies for "trap" based teams with Rocket Raccoon seemingly already dominating in the East coast. Rocket is also a zoner/trap based character and he uses that to set up an offensive character like Jedah. If those guys had actually watched the previous tournaments then they will know how wrong it was to call out that the game doesn't have trap-like playstyle. I don't even know what else to say about this other than the fact that they didn't do enough research about the actual meta.
*Of course Reality stone is brought up as being strong. Yea it's strong... but it's not dominating the high levels of tournaments. And by that I mean people who are actually winning tournaments. Who won big tournaments recently? FChamp won SCR with Space and Sonic Fox won CEOtaku with Time stone. Reality stone as Richard Nguyen put it is the "scrub killer" of the game where teams with poor zoning/durability and bad mobility will get punished by it but better teams will just not care much about it. Don't get me wrong, it's still a strong stone with the surge being a bit overtuned but in the grand scheme of things it's still not that far ahead of the curve.
*Then there is some talk about character variety and tiers. This is not some unique phenomenon that is happening with MVCI.. people are gravitating towards the easy, obvious top characters/stones week 1. This happens with every game. Being "concerned" that Dante and Dormammu are common this early is just short sighted. People are also likely to play the characters that they played in Marvel 3.
*Thorns was brought up and most of the community seems to agree that it's too good. However, the video did not bring up the escapes against it or possible counter play. In fact, that's the general overview of the video... complaining about stuff seen on screen without much cross referencing, foresight or counter analysis. It's teetering on stuff you see on Twitter and Stream chat where they just spam memes about something being too good.
*There was no real mention about stuff like Captain Marvel or other bugs in the game that is actually a bigger problem than stuff like Reality stone or Dante being used too often.
*They mentioned that it's a problem that characters have to be paired with others for optimum game play. Meaning you can't just use any two characters you want. Like no shit, I don't know what they were expecting but this is generally how every team game works. In a game where tools are so varied, you need to have a team that can cover the maximum amount of situations and match ups as possible. That means that you can't just play two characters that do the same thing. It's like complaining that you can't pick 5 carries in a MOBA game. This game is honestly more freeform than I expected in that just picking two characters you want is enough to get something going but as always people aren't going to experiment with their duos themselves, they are going to watch tournaments online and complain that Dormammu is being used more than once in a top 8.
*How can you even start to talk about the meta without some idea of a tier list? Who is even good in this game and who is bad? Is the whole analysis of the meta based on watching one tournament? What about communicating with other players, doing lab work and checking up potential character tech?
There is probably some validity in the points brought up and there could be long term issues... but their evidence or analysis backing up the points was practically non-existent. There is no big picture analysis of the meta, it's mostly just talking about stuff seen in tournaments.
The people right now who are most qualified to talk about the meta are people like FChamp, Flash and Viscant. Mostly because these players will be hunkering down in training mode, having real discussions and checking up on various techs to formulate an opinion on. And even these people can be wrong as they have been in the past. I brought up Flash and people are probably like "huh? he is not really much of a Marvel player" but this guy was right on a lot of Vanilla Marvel 3 predictions when most people were way off base. He saw the potential of characters like Joe, Trish, Morrigan, MODOK, Doom in Vanilla Marvel 3 when people were still nutting over She Hulk. That's because he actually does a lot of research before making comments or posting videos about the "meta".
As far as actual stuff to be "concerned" about which is what the video is about. Let's just talk about stuff that we know now that might be concerns:
*Bugs like Captain Marvel's armor, Dante's Stinger overhead, Gamora's guns are a problem that should be fixed sooner rather than later. These are not BALANCE changes but rather bug fixes so this is not me asking for nerfs to change up the meta, these shouldn't exist in the game period. Also stuff like Ghost Rider's interaction with Power stone (ie. it doesn't work) should be looked at as well.
*Dorm's 3C is probably the only thing in the game that is for sure "too good" especially in the long term. It's definitely top of the list, I don't think anything else in the game right now that isn't a bug is as good. Like people are all hyping up Dante and Dorm but that team is going to drop a ton if you nerf that one move, same for Dorm + Ultron. In fact, every Dorm team takes a hit if that move is nerfed where he would go from best support character to just a good support character.
*Ryu and Chris are obviously bad, they need a buff. There are some things that you don't need a year of game play to figure out, this is pretty easy to figure out.
*Mind Stone's power level is a concern right now, it's the weakest stone by a margin. But this still needs more time to figure out so I don't think people should be jumping on it. Some of the DLC characters might be busted with meter so who knows.
Thanks for your input Dahbomb. I'm not entirely sure how VesperArcade is seen by NeoGaf (since I know there are some content creators that usually go unspoken). For a meta to develop this early on would be rather bizzare to consider, and I'm guessing that this was made due to how apparently players are gravitating towards certain team set ups and certain stones. Definitely Reality is getting milage right now for players, but I've seen plenty of players make use of Space to safely zone players to hell, and Soul for the quick revive (alongside with how Dormammu can charge his attacks while the point character launches the attacks).
It makes me wonder how we will see this develop and how could develop "Anti-Reality" strategies if it hasn't been done already. I know for myself, I lean more towards Soul since I find that to be slightly more "Beginner Friendly" for me (would consider Mind, but that might be slightly wasted in comparison to other stones).
I know I'm still learning the game, and still trying to figure out how to do worthwhile combos. Your previous posts have been rather helpful so far and hope to read more in the future. ^_^
I don't have any negative or strong opinions about VesperArcade, I get the feeling that he is more of a SF type of guy. I am not saying he shouldn't be talking about Marvel but there needs to be research done with these type of videos as the topic of "meta" in a VS game this early is a VERY sensitive topic.
Soul stone is actually the hardest stone to master.
Soul stone is actually the hardest stone to master.
It would probably be too early to rank the stones as well too, huh? Mind you it could probably be a quick write up, but it does make me wonder if the Infinity Stones would even have a possible Tier list like the characters since it is more based on the teams that use the stones rather than just the stones being a deciding factor.
I can get that Soul is definitely the hardest of the six considering how the 2v1 Infinity Storm can work both ways (where either using character moves together at the same time can be tricky, or if it can lead you open for one character on your team getting clobbered if misused). Obviously, I know there's more to it than that, but I do place myself somewhere between Beginner-Intermediate in terms of fighting games.
Full use of soul stone involves doing the whole hold stone surge thing to immobolize one of your characters, def the most mechanically challenging atm.
We can get at certain aspects of the stones (for example, the ratio of ease of use and power stands out for reality), but a lot of it will end up coming down to team synergy.
We can get at certain aspects of the stones (for example, the ratio of ease of use and power stands out for reality), but a lot of it will end up coming down to team synergy.
People already have tier lists for Stones.
Most people consider Soul, Space and Reality to be the top 3. All 3 of these are very strong in the game right now and for different reasons.
Power and Time are in next tier, they are good but their Storms are underwhelming even though they have great surges. They still have potential to be a lot better because both of these require that you learn new combos, pressure strings and set ups.
Mind stone is easily the worst having both mediocre Storm and Surge.
Most people consider Soul, Space and Reality to be the top 3. All 3 of these are very strong in the game right now and for different reasons.
Power and Time are in next tier, they are good but their Storms are underwhelming even though they have great surges. They still have potential to be a lot better because both of these require that you learn new combos, pressure strings and set ups.
Mind stone is easily the worst having both mediocre Storm and Surge.
I don't think Mind is garbage, but it's definitely the most underwhelming.
I have a feeling like a small amount of teams will make it work but if they want to see it get more use they should buff it.
Some ideas (doesn't necessarily have to be all of these): expand the grab box of the surge, make it quick on the ground as it is in the air, reduce scaling, add some armor on it?
I think the Storm is okay, but to make it better I'd just make it fill a lot faster to max bar.
I have a feeling like a small amount of teams will make it work but if they want to see it get more use they should buff it.
Some ideas (doesn't necessarily have to be all of these): expand the grab box of the surge, make it quick on the ground as it is in the air, reduce scaling, add some armor on it?
I think the Storm is okay, but to make it better I'd just make it fill a lot faster to max bar.
Damage scaling shouldn't be that low on it.
It should be faster on the ground by a few frames.
The combo that you get out of Mind stone should build more meter as that's the whole point of it.
Storm is mostly fine as it is, I don't know how it can be improved. Maybe improve meter regeneration but the main problem is that it's just not that great spamming a bunch of hypers in this game.
I think the Mind stone should just have been a Parry.
It's a rushdown stone that needs setups, gonna be niche by design. Ppl shouldnt expect it to be plug and play, it's meant for specific executions. Remains to be seen if it's worth even with the tech tho i think itll begin to shine at some point.
The cool thing about the stones is that they are pretty dependant on the characters at play. I dont think reality is very good against gamora (power stone can trade, time can get you out, etc ) for example, but space stone helps open her up, and i dont think rocket racoon should run reality when space or time are available.
I played a super dirty ghost/than/mind team.
Almost got a perfect on me with the setups they had. Some tricky Resets into mind gem.
Edit:
It's tricky but I have a solo firebrand combo that uses soul factor to basically safely rez jedah. I thought about extensions with jedah in the combo but I can't assume jedah is next to me during the combo.
So for jedah I just hold tag the whole combo so he doesn't move and then end with a level 3. Brings jedah back to life and prevents him from being in any danger.
Almost got a perfect on me with the setups they had. Some tricky Resets into mind gem.
Edit:
It's tricky but I have a solo firebrand combo that uses soul factor to basically safely rez jedah. I thought about extensions with jedah in the combo but I can't assume jedah is next to me during the combo.
So for jedah I just hold tag the whole combo so he doesn't move and then end with a level 3. Brings jedah back to life and prevents him from being in any danger.
3 if you're quick enough, you can do a ground fireball while airborne and then Land and do a couple.
PSA FOR FIREBRAND USERS
If they block your S.HP, S.HK STRING DO NOT WHIRLWIND AFTER.
a character like dante can push block the string and then box jump and punish. The whirlwind if they pushblock doesn't hit right away and the opponent gets a mad punish, if the block the string go for a ground fireball or whirlwind and tag. But be careful about that string to whirlwind if it gets blocked.