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Marvel's Daredevil S2 *Spoiler Thread* |OT| Elektra Boogaloo - March 18th on Netflix
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
Beaniedude
Member
Just finished.
Punisher was amazing. Elektra was brilliant.
I will agree that the resolution could have been better.
I was a tad bit confused with the cabin in the woods. Did that belong to Frank? Or did he just find it with all the guns?
Also did Nobu not hide his heartbeat?
The sand in that shipping container were all ninjas right? Can the Hand turn into sand? I may be misremembering.
But other than that those small things I loved it. The one thing that annoyed me the most was whether or not Karen was getting paid. Like she was in an office and everything. I just wanted a scene where she is filling out paperwork or something. Girls gotta eat.
Punisher was amazing. Elektra was brilliant.
I will agree that the resolution could have been better.
I was a tad bit confused with the cabin in the woods. Did that belong to Frank? Or did he just find it with all the guns?
Also did Nobu not hide his heartbeat?
The sand in that shipping container were all ninjas right? Can the Hand turn into sand? I may be misremembering.
But other than that those small things I loved it. The one thing that annoyed me the most was whether or not Karen was getting paid. Like she was in an office and everything. I just wanted a scene where she is filling out paperwork or something. Girls gotta eat.
That was the "Blacksmith"'s shed
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
That was the Colonel's shack. I guess his property is pretty big, that his tool shed is somewhat remote from his house.
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
I think that informed a lot of her character this season. Especially her relationship with Castle. Were you expecting some concrete repercussions?
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Forgot about it? I felt it was being referenced as the whole reason she's trying to understand Frank. And she got into an argument with Matt over whether killing bad people is right or wrong. It all felt like her attempts in dealing with the trauma and trying to justify the action to herself.
Pilgrimzero
Member
So in guessing next season, Fisk sends Bullseye after DD. Karen gets caught inbetween them.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
PreFire
Member
If you look carefully, it was actually with the hammer of the gun. Brutal
I loved the season.
Sure, Matt made some terrible choices, but you can't chalk that up to bad writing. Just because something you don't like happens in the story, doesn't mean the writing is bad. I've been seeing this a lot in GAF.
No writing is flawless, and DD2 certainly isn't, but it was still an amazing season in my opinion. The fight coreography wasn't as good as season 1. They tried to do the continuous shot, but I noticed so many cuts and edits. I knew that one dude was going to have a cracked nose when he had the punisher cuffed to the chair, because he has the make-up on in one of the cuts before it actually happened.
Matt isn't ok with the killing. He just realized there's nothing he can do about it. He tried several times, there's just some things you can't change about someone. As for Nobu, either he doesn't consider pushing someone over a ledge into a fatal fall as "killing" because he blames gravity, or he figured he would just get up anyway since dude is apparently immortal. I think he also didn't care about the ninjas being killed (besides the young ass kid Elektra throat slit) because most of them had already died (Y incision) and revived.
I'm so happy Karen (I have no idea, no idea, why GAF hates her. Same thing with Patty, Iris West, Felicity, Claire from House of Cards.. Some people might just hate women here or something) finally knows Matt is DareDevil. She deserves to know, and it's not shocking that she had no idea. The dude is fucking blind in her eyes (he actually is, but you know) so she never put the pieces together.
The punisher was fucking awesome. I don't watch the walking dead, so I've never seen too much of Jon.. But he is the punisher. I loved the gore, the ruthlessness.. The look in his eyes, the way he handled the guns.. His acting was amazing too. I love it when actors don't just say their lines.. I love a stutter here or there.. I like the way he conversates.. It feels genuine.. And not like some lines he had to remember. I hope they really are making a spinoff with him.
For season 3.. Claire gonna be Matt's nurse still probably, just without a license. Fisk will look into Matt more, since that punch when he instinctively defended himself in the prison left a painful mark on a man with the strength of Kingpin. Elektra gonna be evil(er). Karen probably will either be pissed at Matt and jump on the Foggy train and tell Matt what he's doing is dangerous (which would make her a hypocrite since she endorsed him like crazy) or she won't believe him lol. Maybe Nobu will someone come back? Lol doubt it, unless they can just place his severed head on top of his neck, then put it in that revival coffin.
Can't wait for season 3!
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Did Stan Lee have a cameo this season?
SneakersSO
Member
Finished it last night and I had some time to mull it over.
I really enjoyed season 2. The highs were great. What was different for me in season 1 & 2, in terms of criticism, is where the show found its weakness. In Season 1, this was the plot running out of steam significantly in the last few episodes. In Season 2, it was a number of things that are minor on their own, but add up to be annoying.
Okay, so The Hand stuff went from being mysterious/compelling in season 1, to just bafflingly mishandled in season 2. Part of the problem seems to be the writers have this odd stiff arm approach to any mystical elements for Daredevil. I don't know if this is a conscious thing Marvel is doing and that they want Doctor Strange to be the main entry point into any mystical elements in the MCU, but its clear by the ending that any/all mystical stuff involving The Hand got forced to season 3. Not just that, Matty's reaction was so dismissive that it was insulting.
Matt Murdoch - you're telling me that in a world where both a Norse God is both known to exist & has saved your precious city from aliens who came pouring out of a giant, inter-dimensional hole in your sky, you're having a hard time believing that an ancient clan of ninjas might have some mystical capabilities? Especially stuff that you've both observed occur.
And all this coming from a devout Catholic, no less. Heck, you saw a man burn to death, and now he's back with barely any burn scars, considering the state you saw him in last.
My immersion becomes broken whenever I subconsciously notice a discrepancy between the show existing in the larger MCU, and the characters in the show not really rationalizing like a person who exists in that world. Had the writers leaned into The Hand & its mystical-ness, I believe it would've been far more compelling because some of the most fascinating scenes involving The Hand all get handwaved away by other characters, or buried in the plot due to corruption (autopsy ninjas/ giant 40 story hole/blood fermentation). Not only that, it really undermines The Hand's potential as a threat if all we hear about is all this mystical stuff being alluded to, when the confrontations themselves amount to Ninjas getting their ass kicked by Daredevil as if they were street thugs only with poison katanas.
I also cannot understand why the plot couldn't keep Matt circling back to Frank Castle, or keep their threads way more intertwined in the end. Part of what really undermined The Hand was it revolved around a character that Matt successfully defeated in season 1. None of the fights
& Matt had in season 2 even came close to the fight in season 1. If they wanted to build up The Hand, fine, but do it with a new character. Bringing back Nobu & giving him nothing new to do was a tremendous waste, especially when you have such great characters that are involved in this season, like Punish & Elektra. It's frustrating to see just how little exposition is given to any of the individual group's motivation between The Hand & Chaste. At least the initial 3 gangs the show deals with in the first half of the season (less so The Cartel) have motivations & self-interest driving them.
The Hand just comes across as seeking power for the sake of being powerful, and Chaste doesn't come across any better. These are my biggest complaints in an otherwise fantastic season.
I really enjoyed season 2. The highs were great. What was different for me in season 1 & 2, in terms of criticism, is where the show found its weakness. In Season 1, this was the plot running out of steam significantly in the last few episodes. In Season 2, it was a number of things that are minor on their own, but add up to be annoying.
Okay, so The Hand stuff went from being mysterious/compelling in season 1, to just bafflingly mishandled in season 2. Part of the problem seems to be the writers have this odd stiff arm approach to any mystical elements for Daredevil. I don't know if this is a conscious thing Marvel is doing and that they want Doctor Strange to be the main entry point into any mystical elements in the MCU, but its clear by the ending that any/all mystical stuff involving The Hand got forced to season 3. Not just that, Matty's reaction was so dismissive that it was insulting.
Matt Murdoch - you're telling me that in a world where both a Norse God is both known to exist & has saved your precious city from aliens who came pouring out of a giant, inter-dimensional hole in your sky, you're having a hard time believing that an ancient clan of ninjas might have some mystical capabilities? Especially stuff that you've both observed occur.
Heck, in season 1, you got thrown across a room and spat up blood from a single blow from an elderly Chinese woman, whom when you meet in season 2, you don't even make a single mention of.
My immersion becomes broken whenever I subconsciously notice a discrepancy between the show existing in the larger MCU, and the characters in the show not really rationalizing like a person who exists in that world. Had the writers leaned into The Hand & its mystical-ness, I believe it would've been far more compelling because some of the most fascinating scenes involving The Hand all get handwaved away by other characters, or buried in the plot due to corruption (autopsy ninjas/ giant 40 story hole/blood fermentation). Not only that, it really undermines The Hand's potential as a threat if all we hear about is all this mystical stuff being alluded to, when the confrontations themselves amount to Ninjas getting their ass kicked by Daredevil as if they were street thugs only with poison katanas.
I also cannot understand why the plot couldn't keep Matt circling back to Frank Castle, or keep their threads way more intertwined in the end. Part of what really undermined The Hand was it revolved around a character that Matt successfully defeated in season 1. None of the fights
Nobu
The Hand just comes across as seeking power for the sake of being powerful, and Chaste doesn't come across any better. These are my biggest complaints in an otherwise fantastic season.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
She thought Frank Castle's crusade justified what she did. That maybe if society could see some good in what he was doing, she could forgive herself for crime of passion. Only after she saw up close what a maniac he was in the last few episodes did she start to realize how fucked up that slippery slope is.
Man, I really loved this season 
!
It felt faster paced compared to Season 1 and everything just kept on moving; the Daredevil vs Punisher, Elektra and Daredevil working together, the Trial for the Punisher, the whole 1-2 episodes centered on Mr. Fisk, the ending........it was very rapid.
Some of the plot lines I felt were natural moves for the series if its getting a third season. Matt wants to be alone so he can focus on being Daredevil so pushing Froggy and Karen is logical, Karen is going to be a reporter ala Ben from Season 1, Foggy is going to work solo away from Matt with the team that is helping Jessica Jones (at least I think so....correct me if I'm wrong).
I like all these moves as when the characters are doing their own things, it makes things very interesting and opens the doors to some really enjoyable B stories for each episode.
I really enjoyed Foggy in this season, as he more or less did everything on his own. Matt bearly helped him and Karen out during the trail and despite that, Foggy still did a great job handling everything. Its a shame that the next season will likely not have Foggy/Karen interact with Matt due to how everything ends, but the ending where Matt tells Karen he's Daredevil was interesting.
My last thought is Elektra, as they do a great job with her character here. And when she 'dies', I felt sad, as I would of thought she would of become a partner for Daredevil in Season 3. And the final image of the ninja's digging her out of the grave and putting her in one of those machines makes me really wonder if she's going to be a villain of S3 or just a background character.
This brings up my only real issue with this season; its expecting that a Season 3 will happen so a lot of those elements they leave in the dark will come back and be further explored. I don't mind this, but if we don't get a Season 3, the ending here doesn't answer enough to make things completely satisfying.
Overall, great season and it was great watching it again. One more thing though.......Mr. Fisk becoming the Kingpin was great and seeing him take over the jail and then having Matt come into 'his' prison was such a powerful scene.
!It felt faster paced compared to Season 1 and everything just kept on moving; the Daredevil vs Punisher, Elektra and Daredevil working together, the Trial for the Punisher, the whole 1-2 episodes centered on Mr. Fisk, the ending........it was very rapid.
Some of the plot lines I felt were natural moves for the series if its getting a third season. Matt wants to be alone so he can focus on being Daredevil so pushing Froggy and Karen is logical, Karen is going to be a reporter ala Ben from Season 1, Foggy is going to work solo away from Matt with the team that is helping Jessica Jones (at least I think so....correct me if I'm wrong).
I like all these moves as when the characters are doing their own things, it makes things very interesting and opens the doors to some really enjoyable B stories for each episode.
I really enjoyed Foggy in this season, as he more or less did everything on his own. Matt bearly helped him and Karen out during the trail and despite that, Foggy still did a great job handling everything. Its a shame that the next season will likely not have Foggy/Karen interact with Matt due to how everything ends, but the ending where Matt tells Karen he's Daredevil was interesting.
My last thought is Elektra, as they do a great job with her character here. And when she 'dies', I felt sad, as I would of thought she would of become a partner for Daredevil in Season 3. And the final image of the ninja's digging her out of the grave and putting her in one of those machines makes me really wonder if she's going to be a villain of S3 or just a background character.
This brings up my only real issue with this season; its expecting that a Season 3 will happen so a lot of those elements they leave in the dark will come back and be further explored. I don't mind this, but if we don't get a Season 3, the ending here doesn't answer enough to make things completely satisfying.
Overall, great season and it was great watching it again
. One more thing though.......Mr. Fisk becoming the Kingpin was great and seeing him take over the jail and then having Matt come into 'his' prison was such a powerful scene.It's funny that for half the season, I was wondering why Melvin wasn't making Elektra a suit and then they finally figure it out in the last episode.
This season was much better paced than both Season 1 and Jessica Jones. It made it so easy to just watch everything quickly without it running out of steam halfway through.
This season was much better paced than both Season 1 and Jessica Jones. It made it so easy to just watch everything quickly without it running out of steam halfway through.
LordRaptor
Member
I don't get this complaint, the MCU gods are shown as sufficiently advanced aliens rather than gods, so its a bit like saying "well, if you believe in aliens why don't you believe in ghosts too?"
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Yeah, there is no magic in the MCU yet. Just technoaliens.
I think this Season is best summed up by the fact that an army of Ninjas and an immortal Ninja and a bunch of drug/toxin-addicted creepy kids and Stick and Elektra and a doomsday prophecy... were far less interesting than one scene where Wilson Fisk yells at Matt and slams his head onto a desk.
The mysticism stuff is beyond garbage. Show should've gone the simple route and had Fisk hire Elektra to kill Daredevil from behind bars. She balks at it, Bullseye comes along, Punisher as the wild card. Instead we got this absolutely fucking terrible nonsense with the Yakuza dominating the show, despite the fact that when Nobu shows up again Matt fucking clowns him with ease. And then in the finale Nobu can suddenly fight Matt and Elektra at the same time...
Fuck, they even half-assed intersecting Punisher/Daredevil in the finale by having Punisher show up earlier and mow down Ninjas, as others pointed out. The 'oh no, an army' thing is so dumb, because Matt and Elektra fuck said army up with relative ease.
It also throws aside the central question - why the fuck did Nobu say 'don't kill Elektra' if they just brought her back from the dead anyway?
GOD, it makes me so angry. And yet none of that is still close to as bad as Karen's arc. God, I hope the Bulletin goes out of business and Karen has to work for The Bugle and JJJ yells at her on a daily basis for writing the most insipid puff pieces. I mean... that 'article' on The Punisher was livejournal quality, it really was.
At least they've figured out a logical reason Fisk would want her dead in S3 - she probably'll write an expose that'll make him so angry at the terrible writing that he hires Bullseye to throw her into a printing press. Course, her bestest friend Frank will probably save her from that.
EDIT - and re: the above 'well, Thor is not a God stuff'...
Matt lives in a world with super soldiers, rage monsters, an Alien who can control thunder and lightning, inhumans, two sentient robots with questionable morality, a guy who could control people with ease, and Gary Shandling. But he draws the line at fucking ninjas? Really?
The mysticism stuff is beyond garbage. Show should've gone the simple route and had Fisk hire Elektra to kill Daredevil from behind bars. She balks at it, Bullseye comes along, Punisher as the wild card. Instead we got this absolutely fucking terrible nonsense with the Yakuza dominating the show, despite the fact that when Nobu shows up again Matt fucking clowns him with ease. And then in the finale Nobu can suddenly fight Matt and Elektra at the same time...
Fuck, they even half-assed intersecting Punisher/Daredevil in the finale by having Punisher show up earlier and mow down Ninjas, as others pointed out. The 'oh no, an army' thing is so dumb, because Matt and Elektra fuck said army up with relative ease.
It also throws aside the central question - why the fuck did Nobu say 'don't kill Elektra' if they just brought her back from the dead anyway?
GOD, it makes me so angry. And yet none of that is still close to as bad as Karen's arc. God, I hope the Bulletin goes out of business and Karen has to work for The Bugle and JJJ yells at her on a daily basis for writing the most insipid puff pieces. I mean... that 'article' on The Punisher was livejournal quality, it really was.
At least they've figured out a logical reason Fisk would want her dead in S3 - she probably'll write an expose that'll make him so angry at the terrible writing that he hires Bullseye to throw her into a printing press. Course, her bestest friend Frank will probably save her from that.
EDIT - and re: the above 'well, Thor is not a God stuff'...
Matt lives in a world with super soldiers, rage monsters, an Alien who can control thunder and lightning, inhumans, two sentient robots with questionable morality, a guy who could control people with ease, and Gary Shandling. But he draws the line at fucking ninjas? Really?
I dont think science can explain Scarlet Witch.
My problem with their relationship is them dragging it out. Course, Karen and Foggy had mad chemistry in an early S1 episode and they cut that short because rule of canon so.
SneakersSO
Member
It's more from a possibility perspective. Like, they live in a world where impossible things keep happening and the public has seen evidence of it. It's not so unbelievable to think that any of that mystical stuff could be real once you realize other things are real as well that would normally be considered impossible.
SneakersSO
Member
They tried. "She's weird".
THAT LINE ALONE WAS ENOUGH FOR CAPTAIN AMERICA. Matt Murdoch, a man who was trained by a blind man to use his enhanced physical abilities to fight off an army of highly trained ninjas, can't believe that some of the magical shit they are up to is fucking real. And this is after he's physically confirmed some of it.
There are times I think that if you gave Matt an ash tray, he'd think it was a waffle.
GustyGardens
Banned
I finished the season last night, and I really enjoyed it. I heard people hyping up episode 3, and while it was great, it wasn't was great as I was led to believe.
I really liked the relationship between Frank & Daredevil. It was nice that he didn't care who the Daredevil was, and when he finds out, it wasn't a big deal. On that subject, am I alone in assuming that he made that connection in the courtroom when Matt asked if he could call him Frank?
I wasn't too happy with the resolution, as it felt a bit forced. I really wanted Punisher to help in that fight, and while he did, we really didn't see the lead up to that. We never saw him over hear the call for back up on the police radio. He just kind of showed up. I did like that Matt killed Nobu. Well, he assumes he was the one that killed Nobu, which I think could lead to some kind of internal struggle going into next season. Frank told him that he'd never be able to come back from that.
Overall, the season was fantastic. I'd really like to see the Netflix staff take on a DC character like The Question, or someone from the Bat family, like Nightwing.
I really liked the relationship between Frank & Daredevil. It was nice that he didn't care who the Daredevil was, and when he finds out, it wasn't a big deal. On that subject, am I alone in assuming that he made that connection in the courtroom when Matt asked if he could call him Frank?
I wasn't too happy with the resolution, as it felt a bit forced. I really wanted Punisher to help in that fight, and while he did, we really didn't see the lead up to that. We never saw him over hear the call for back up on the police radio. He just kind of showed up. I did like that Matt killed Nobu. Well, he assumes he was the one that killed Nobu, which I think could lead to some kind of internal struggle going into next season. Frank told him that he'd never be able to come back from that.
Overall, the season was fantastic. I'd really like to see the Netflix staff take on a DC character like The Question, or someone from the Bat family, like Nightwing.
Except Stick never even attempts to turn the stakes into something concrete. We don't even get a real explanation on what the Dark Sky is. It's like a guy trying to convince you aliens are real, but when you ask him for specifics he just talks about how you have to stop the aliens. He doesn't even explain how Nobu can survive burns and falls but it's the beheading that does him in.
PreFire
Member
It's called denial.
He hasn't yet accepted it. He thinks he knows there has to be some "logical" explanation.
I would've been more upset if he just downright accepts it. "Black sky? So cool."
Give him some time. He will have no choice but to believe.
Also, is this part of the MCU? I know they referenced a few characters in S1, but how do we know that Matt knows about Thor, Scarlett, etc?
Wait, what? He said he was Daredevil.
Karen will need to check her sources to be sure.
There are literally scenes with newspapers mentioning the alien invasion and avengers destroying New York.
I took it as the moment in the hospital where he introduced himself, Frank picked it up immediately. "I know you... Uh... I mean, that one lawyer... guy. Yeah."
They made a joke about Thor's hammer in the first episode or two of S1 IIRC
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Why on earth would you think that? It's a very clean secret identity reveal scene.
Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are hand-waved as "government experiments". They even volunteered for them, like Steve Rogers. Her mind control isn't even on the same level as someone like Kilgrave's. Energy blasts? Villain of the week stuff for Agents of Shield.
I'd like to think that Matt's obstinate nature is due to the fact that Stick and Elektra always lie, cheat, steal, and kill to get what they want, and then they expect him to believe they're telling the truth about the most absurd of things.
Yeah, I think they tried so hard to make his defining character trait that he's an asshole, they didn't even try to make his actions make sense. "Sure, let me try to murder Elektra after spending my entire life keeping her alive, including just three days ago. What's Dark Sky? Why don't you say it to my face, you naive pussy?" Asshole. For someone who spends all of his scenes asking other people for help to save the world, he's terrible at his job.
This is a plot point for Karen's newspaper sidestory too. The editor tells her that all of their files were taken offline and kept as physical copies since "the incident". I had to look it up, but apparently the invasion of NY is referred to as such on AoS.
Reverend Funk
Comfy Penetration
Well he can't read newspapers or watch videos or look at pictures so you know
They talk about the Battle of New York a lot so one would assume the people involved would be common knowledge
I seriously like to think Matt put his hands over his ears and went 'lalalala' after the Invasion so he wouldn't hear anyone discussing it.
Shoot, your right. There goes that theory.
Sometimes I like to extrapolate what a scene gives you to make it ridiculous. It was indeed clean.
SneakersSO
Member
Right, which again, I am holding against the writers here, cause they are specifically choosing to avoid explaining ANY of it until next season, at the earliest. Which will conveniently launch after Doctor Strange has blown the mystical doors off the MCU.
If in-depth mystic-craft is off the table until Doctor Strange has been released, then they shouldn't have built up The Hand at all this season the way that they did. Cause it comes across more frustrating than anything else.
SneakersSO
Member
Luke Cage specifically says he isn't as strong as 'the big green guy' in JJ. There are news paper clippings of 'The Battle of New York' that Ben covered in season 1, that we again see this season when Karen is in his old work room (which they never cleaned out in 6 months, but did remove his name from the door). So yes, they are in the same universe, just that none of the characters like to rationalize the world around them as if they were.
PreFire
Member
Ah ok, idk why I don't remember that lol
I highly doubt that Matt, being essentially just some random guy, would know the particulars of how Thor and the other Asgardians are actually highly advanced aliens who just have the names of mythological Norse deities.
Instead all he'd know is that one of the heroes who saved NYC was a superstrong guy who called himself Thor who fought with a magic hammer.
More_Badass
Member
The Hulk is like a very public walking natural disaster who has wrecked havoc across the country and world. Of course the "big green guy" is well known
Just because people know the Avengers and powers exist doesn't mean they know Thor is an alien from another dimension. Or that magic exists
Sho_Nuff82
Member
The Avengers are a public, government-supported team. Tony Stark and Steve Rogers are national heroes. The Battle of NY, as well as the events of Thor 1/2, are both publicly discussed as invasions from high technology off-worlders.
SneakersSO
Member
To save NYC from a guy called Loki, another mythological diety, that people in the world outside of Hell's Kitchen, including the media, treat as if they are those very same figures?
It's not even like The Battle of NYC was the only world-scale event that involved Thor by the time season 2 occurs. At the very least, Thor Dark World had already happened, and people had seen/reported on the shit that went down in England at that time.
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
I think it's completely reasonable that they're still have issues with mystical ninjas and people coming back from the dead, in light of the Incident or the existence of Thor. People can compartmentalize ideas and just because one fantastical thing exists doesn't mean something necessarily does.
It's easy to say aliens exist so everyone at this point should have an open-mind about other "outrageous" ideas, but you can't say that's the case for everybody. We just had a man stay in space for a year but people still think we faked the moon landing.
I can't get over the millions of y'knows.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Journalism exist in MCU, i cant imagine it's that hard by now to figure Thor and the rest of the Avengers out
It would be interesting to see Thor give a press conference where he talks about his homeland and his nature as a humanoid alien. Or I suppose Thor's details could have been exposed in Black Widow's data dump of SHIELD files (god, what an awful ending to such a good movie). Otherwise, I don't see how "Thor is an alien" would become public knowledge.