It's always interesting when they callback to his faith. I chuckled a bit when he crosses himself at the mere suggestion that killing someone would be okay to Frank.
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Marvel's Daredevil S2 *Spoiler Thread* |OT| Elektra Boogaloo - March 18th on Netflix
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
Frank's unit got some drug hook up in one of the countries they had a mission in, and arranged for distribution in the states when they returned from their tour. The Coronel was Blacksmith, hooking up the various gangs with drugs after Madame Gao fucked off to Kun Lun for awhile.
Meanwhile the word is out on this mysterious Blacksmith and the cops have a undercover agent with one of the gangs and they arrange for a meet between the gangs and Blacksmith in a DA sting. They stupidly do it in a crowded park insteda of empty to not rouse suspition. Except Blacksmith doesnt show up, shit goes sour, the gangs massacre each other, the undercover cop and whoever was in the line of fire, in this case Frank's family and Frank. This is a huge fuck up so they cover it up, make it look like Frank's family was hit on their car, falsify police records. Problem was Frank didn't die so when he goes on his rampage, the DA needs him dead before this all comes to light.
Flash forward to Frank escaping prison, which the colonel / blacksmith hears about so he proceeds to frame frank for the DA and whoever connected with this knowing Frank would eventually figure it out. He sends his goons, Frank's old unit, to kill Frank at the boat.
That sound about right?
Meanwhile the word is out on this mysterious Blacksmith and the cops have a undercover agent with one of the gangs and they arrange for a meet between the gangs and Blacksmith in a DA sting. They stupidly do it in a crowded park insteda of empty to not rouse suspition. Except Blacksmith doesnt show up, shit goes sour, the gangs massacre each other, the undercover cop and whoever was in the line of fire, in this case Frank's family and Frank. This is a huge fuck up so they cover it up, make it look like Frank's family was hit on their car, falsify police records. Problem was Frank didn't die so when he goes on his rampage, the DA needs him dead before this all comes to light.
Flash forward to Frank escaping prison, which the colonel / blacksmith hears about so he proceeds to frame frank for the DA and whoever connected with this knowing Frank would eventually figure it out. He sends his goons, Frank's old unit, to kill Frank at the boat.
That sound about right?
More_Badass
Member
Yerp.
The fact that they didn't bother explaining the huge hole seems like... a plot hole. Didn't have any relevance.
Really the Black Sky stuff just never managed to be more than a nebulous pile of distractions. It was fine, but it felt like they were still holding back too much, especially as the whole magic & prophecy stuff always threatens to veer out of territory that grounds Daredevil.
And man, even if you know nothing about the comics, as soon as Matt said "we can run away together!" to Elektra any person who's watched enough media knew she was a dead character walking. It's right up there with "I'm a month from retirement" as the portents of doom in these plots.
Karen was... a hell of a lot better this season. She didn't get anyone killed, she acted smart without being superhuman, and she got to do a lot more than just act confused as to why Matt and Foggy are being weird. Still kinda' ghoulish she gets dumped in Ben's office and they don't really even spend much time on that postscript.
Also, I really liked Elektra's costumes. Like Psylocke's getup her comics outfit always seemed weirdly impractical and they harkened to it nicely while also making it fit in with DD's look and feel.
Sounds right. The only weird thing about the whole Blacksmith/Frank thing was it seemed weird to me that it was so recent. Everyone treats Frank's background as a huge mystery people forgot about but it happened within the last year.
Really the Black Sky stuff just never managed to be more than a nebulous pile of distractions. It was fine, but it felt like they were still holding back too much, especially as the whole magic & prophecy stuff always threatens to veer out of territory that grounds Daredevil.
And man, even if you know nothing about the comics, as soon as Matt said "we can run away together!" to Elektra any person who's watched enough media knew she was a dead character walking. It's right up there with "I'm a month from retirement" as the portents of doom in these plots.
Karen was... a hell of a lot better this season. She didn't get anyone killed, she acted smart without being superhuman, and she got to do a lot more than just act confused as to why Matt and Foggy are being weird. Still kinda' ghoulish she gets dumped in Ben's office and they don't really even spend much time on that postscript.
Also, I really liked Elektra's costumes. Like Psylocke's getup her comics outfit always seemed weirdly impractical and they harkened to it nicely while also making it fit in with DD's look and feel.
Sounds right. The only weird thing about the whole Blacksmith/Frank thing was it seemed weird to me that it was so recent. Everyone treats Frank's background as a huge mystery people forgot about but it happened within the last year.
Micro is a hacker/weapon supplier for Frank in the comics. One of his true friends. Guessing it was some evidence on his unit kind of thing and since "frank" is now dead time to deal with it
Nothing in the show explains it, but in the comics a character named "Micro" is his arms / tech supplier.
It was a reference to a character from the Punisher comics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microchip_(comics)
Had a good chuckle here.
Also did I miss something,
Nobu goes "activate the weapon on the targets" and the woman goes "which targets?" and he is all "all of them. Did something come out of that?
Was there someone else in that coffin thing they put electra in the end because they had all those kids tied up feeding blood into it, was that ever explained?
Why did the end have to dig a 40 story hole in the ground in a warehouse? There are a lot of Hand plotlines that I felt were unexplained.
Nobu goes "activate the weapon on the targets" and the woman goes "which targets?" and he is all "all of them. Did something come out of that?
Was there someone else in that coffin thing they put electra in the end because they had all those kids tied up feeding blood into it, was that ever explained?
Why did the end have to dig a 40 story hole in the ground in a warehouse? There are a lot of Hand plotlines that I felt were unexplained.
The Artisan
Member
so is nobu and the red handed not human? how are they alive?
and what the fuck was up with those teens in the hospital? are they black sky? that's what the kid was in season 1 according to stick and nobu.
why did stick want to kill elektra?
and what the fuck was up with those teens in the hospital? are they black sky? that's what the kid was in season 1 according to stick and nobu.
why did stick want to kill elektra?
Those were the people Daredevil had saved, the ones on the bus used as bait.
Stick wanted to kill Elektra because she is the "Black Sky" ... same reason he killed that kid in Season 1.
I don't think there is a such thing as the Black Sky as any type of SUPERWEAPON thing ... just an ideal that the Hand follows and will cause more carnage in the name of if they possess it/them/whatever.
chaobreaker
Member
It is... way too much of a coincidence that Frank's family ended up in the crossfire of his old colonel's drug trade gone wrong. The final boss being his old unit all along, a group that turned to drug running and have somehow eluded every law enforcement agency and every criminal organization, wraps everything up in a bow so perfectly that it almost diminishes all the effort he made to finally put a bullet on the Blacksmith.
Lazy vs Crazy
Member
I can't wait for a Spider-Man movie with this version of Fisk in it.
They redid the neck and made it more skin tight. They also redid the shape of the cowl to better fit his face. Gloves and boots were changed as well. Basically, every change was done to make the suit less dorky. The original costume learned nothing from the Avengers Cap costume. The new costume shows that they learned some lessons.
Dr Duncan Steel
Member
Every time Punisher wasn't on-screen I was like, "Where's Punisher?"
Season 1 was better.
Season 1 was better.
I think it was setup for The Defenders.
Just finished. Much better pacing throughout Season 2, didn't limp to the finish line and made very good use of the entire cast. Karen especially
The Punisher was amazing, they knocked it out of the park with that casting and story line.
Nice to see Fisk feature prominently in a few episodes, he was also great as usual.
The wait for Season 3 will be long
The Punisher was amazing, they knocked it out of the park with that casting and story line.
Nice to see Fisk feature prominently in a few episodes, he was also great as usual.
The wait for Season 3 will be long
Lol how dramatic
I was really confused about the time frame this takes place during.
First episode is in the middle of a crazy heat wave, last episode is Christmas Eve. Yet it seemed like everything happened in the span of a few weeks.
At the time Punisher is arrested, a speedy trial is requested while he's still in the hospital - starting a week later. They're in court a week or so. Frank escapes jail like a day or two after the end of the trial, and everything with his former CO framing him happens in the next like 48-72 hours.
There can't have been a huge time skip from Electras death to Matt telling Karem he's Daredevil, as his face is still totally fucked up.
First episode is in the middle of a crazy heat wave, last episode is Christmas Eve. Yet it seemed like everything happened in the span of a few weeks.
At the time Punisher is arrested, a speedy trial is requested while he's still in the hospital - starting a week later. They're in court a week or so. Frank escapes jail like a day or two after the end of the trial, and everything with his former CO framing him happens in the next like 48-72 hours.
There can't have been a huge time skip from Electras death to Matt telling Karem he's Daredevil, as his face is still totally fucked up.
Not here for a fight. I just have my own insane standards. I adored Season 1.
crazyrabbits
Banned
I found that Elektra stabbing Stick's two associates in the car was really disturbing and cold-blooded. They did nothing to her - hell, that guy (Patch?) was driving the car that got them out of there in the first place. And she impales them through the seat of a car. Fucking brutal.
I think you need to re-examine what a plot hole actually is.
No it's something new.
I'm guessing it's hyper-violent people that are suitable vessels for the Hand's leader.
I'm guessing S3/Defenders will be a twist on Shadowland.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Best Marvel show?
Heck besides Antman and Winter Soldier i'd say Daredevil is the best of the MCU.
Probably just someone that the Beast can possess.
I'm guessing the hole and obtaining a black sky are integral parts of "the rising" of the Beast.
BrightLightLava
Unconfirmed Member
That's a kinder comparison than the one I made.
I thought both of those things. That was still a great fight scene though.
I love the upgrades to the helmet in season 2, but think that the suit is a little too texturized for my tastes.
Loved the season overall though. I've never found the Punisher all that interesting, but Bernthal killed it. Elodie Yung was great too.
Probably going to watch Season 1 and Jessica Jones again before watching this again.
I liked the season overall and though it was much better paced than season 1. Punisher was awesome all around, though I did want to see him use that minigun on some ninjas. The biggest problem however was that the Hand and Elektra never seemed all that threatening/badass. Matt already beat the ninjas in the first season and he really didnt have much trouble from them this season. The black sky and the kids/tomb turned out to be a whole lot of nothing at least in regards to this season as well. Setup is good but give me a reason to care. At least Elektra's actress did a good job.
Alandrus Sun
Banned
Hey everyone, I just finished S2 and figured I'd post my thoughts. Short version, I thought it was a step above S1 in nearly every department but as a whole felt really unfocused and lacking overall narrative cohesion and a strong theme.
Before I begin I want to point out I know fuck all about the comics and have only general knowledge as it relates to DD, Punisher, and what ever else Marvel related that is a part of this show. I can only judge the show based off of what I was shown and not any pre-existing knowledge. I guess I'll start out with the good stuff. I loved the "new" costume, I loved the majority of fight scenes (seriously how can they be that damn good), I loved Jon Bernthal as The Punisher, and I liked Elektra, for the most part.
The funny thing is that while I enjoyed damn near every individual episode once the entire season was over I realized that as a whole the season wasn't that great. Honestly, upon reflection it felt like the season basically went off the tracks once The Punisher arc "concluded" with his capture and his brief trial. Now, what tipped me off that something was wrong with the season as a whole was in fact the ending of the season. In the last moments of the finale Karen seems to have begun to settle into her new job as a journalist and begins to write a piece about "being a hero." We cut to shots of ordinary people in the city on Christmas Eve doing ordinary things interspersed with shots of Matt walking to his office, bag in hand. She ends her piece with some poetic nonsense about how, "we are all heroes." Following this Matt walks in to his law office, opens the paper bag he is carrying and announced he is Daredevil to Karen. Boom. End credits.
The problem is that entire sequence, which has the feel of being a wonderful, epic, poetic moment has not been earned. It is almost entirely disconnected from the events that transpired throughout the season. It reminded me a lot about the ending of TDKR where we get this great classic Nolan montage as Bruce Wayne is given a eulogy and the city begins to rebuild itself in the wake of Bane. However, everything about that montage is built up throughout the film. The movie is about the city and people of Gotham and those citizens learning to rise up and take their city back, in the end this is accomplished through the inspiration and sacrifice of The Batman. The entire movie, hell the entire trilogy, is built up to this moment and it concludes the arc of the major characters in the trilogy.
To contrast lets go back and look at this similar scene at the end of DD S2. Karen talks about what it means to be a hero, for some reason. We get shots of ordinary people who haven't faced any real threat or hardship that they knew of the whole season. And, we get Matt walking to and eventually telling Karen the truth, for some reason. As a whole DD S2 lacks an overall central theme. Rather, we are given a series of really cool events that are loosely tied together to keep the plot moving. These events are indeed very cool and feel satisfying to watch as they unfold but when you piece them altogether they do not make a perfect puzzle board. Seriously, if I asked you what was the central theme of DD S2?
To be fair a lot of themes are thrown around but none of them really seem to stick for too long. From the initial trailers and the first few episodes I figured the theme would revolve around "justice" and "identity," mainly in the form of The Punisher. Frank challenges Matt's worldview and mission as he learns that his way does not always succeed in protecting the city and the people he cares about. Furthermore, he must grapple with his own identity issues as both his lives bleed together forcing him to figure out who the real Matt Murdock is, the lawyer or the vigilante? The problem is that these themes are handled haphazardly and seemingly abandoned at the drop of a dime only to pop-up once or twice later on near the end.
Basically, once the Punisher is captured the "justice" theme is apparently dropped and Matt never really has to ponder again the nature of his mission. I thought the trial of Frank itself would be the natural evolution of this theme as vigilantism itself was put on trial but that never really happens. Disappointingly the trial is quickly glossed over and Matt barely participates in it. After which Matt becomes free to pick up the mantle full-time since Foggy already knows what he does and they have no clients, thus grappling with his identity isn't really a problem.
So when the end comes and he reveals his secret to Karen I'm left scratching my head as to why? This is the same guy who confessed his undying love to Elektra and was ready to run away with her just before she was stabbed but I guess a week later is ready to start a relationship with Karen. Why? Hell, why does he harbor any feelings towards her at all besides her being an attractive female?
At the end of everything I felt unsatisfied with a lot of the elements and the characters. There seemed to be no stakes this season, no super main baddie, no driving theme, and a lot of characters were used to drive plot instead of having a real arc, especially Karen. She just happens to be the center of everything for the sole purpose of keeping the plot moving, I honestly find her insufferable at this point. And I still do not understand Foggy, at all. The entire season just felt like one big setup for another season as we are dropped further information The War, Blacksky, while they setup The Punisher, setup Kingpin, and move other characters into more convenient plot positions.
Any way, that's what I thought. I know that sounds all bad but like I said I enjoyed almost every episode it's just when viewed at as a whole I realized the shortcomings of the season.
Before I begin I want to point out I know fuck all about the comics and have only general knowledge as it relates to DD, Punisher, and what ever else Marvel related that is a part of this show. I can only judge the show based off of what I was shown and not any pre-existing knowledge. I guess I'll start out with the good stuff. I loved the "new" costume, I loved the majority of fight scenes (seriously how can they be that damn good), I loved Jon Bernthal as The Punisher, and I liked Elektra, for the most part.
The funny thing is that while I enjoyed damn near every individual episode once the entire season was over I realized that as a whole the season wasn't that great. Honestly, upon reflection it felt like the season basically went off the tracks once The Punisher arc "concluded" with his capture and his brief trial. Now, what tipped me off that something was wrong with the season as a whole was in fact the ending of the season. In the last moments of the finale Karen seems to have begun to settle into her new job as a journalist and begins to write a piece about "being a hero." We cut to shots of ordinary people in the city on Christmas Eve doing ordinary things interspersed with shots of Matt walking to his office, bag in hand. She ends her piece with some poetic nonsense about how, "we are all heroes." Following this Matt walks in to his law office, opens the paper bag he is carrying and announced he is Daredevil to Karen. Boom. End credits.
The problem is that entire sequence, which has the feel of being a wonderful, epic, poetic moment has not been earned. It is almost entirely disconnected from the events that transpired throughout the season. It reminded me a lot about the ending of TDKR where we get this great classic Nolan montage as Bruce Wayne is given a eulogy and the city begins to rebuild itself in the wake of Bane. However, everything about that montage is built up throughout the film. The movie is about the city and people of Gotham and those citizens learning to rise up and take their city back, in the end this is accomplished through the inspiration and sacrifice of The Batman. The entire movie, hell the entire trilogy, is built up to this moment and it concludes the arc of the major characters in the trilogy.
To contrast lets go back and look at this similar scene at the end of DD S2. Karen talks about what it means to be a hero, for some reason. We get shots of ordinary people who haven't faced any real threat or hardship that they knew of the whole season. And, we get Matt walking to and eventually telling Karen the truth, for some reason. As a whole DD S2 lacks an overall central theme. Rather, we are given a series of really cool events that are loosely tied together to keep the plot moving. These events are indeed very cool and feel satisfying to watch as they unfold but when you piece them altogether they do not make a perfect puzzle board. Seriously, if I asked you what was the central theme of DD S2?
To be fair a lot of themes are thrown around but none of them really seem to stick for too long. From the initial trailers and the first few episodes I figured the theme would revolve around "justice" and "identity," mainly in the form of The Punisher. Frank challenges Matt's worldview and mission as he learns that his way does not always succeed in protecting the city and the people he cares about. Furthermore, he must grapple with his own identity issues as both his lives bleed together forcing him to figure out who the real Matt Murdock is, the lawyer or the vigilante? The problem is that these themes are handled haphazardly and seemingly abandoned at the drop of a dime only to pop-up once or twice later on near the end.
Basically, once the Punisher is captured the "justice" theme is apparently dropped and Matt never really has to ponder again the nature of his mission. I thought the trial of Frank itself would be the natural evolution of this theme as vigilantism itself was put on trial but that never really happens. Disappointingly the trial is quickly glossed over and Matt barely participates in it. After which Matt becomes free to pick up the mantle full-time since Foggy already knows what he does and they have no clients, thus grappling with his identity isn't really a problem.
So when the end comes and he reveals his secret to Karen I'm left scratching my head as to why? This is the same guy who confessed his undying love to Elektra and was ready to run away with her just before she was stabbed but I guess a week later is ready to start a relationship with Karen. Why? Hell, why does he harbor any feelings towards her at all besides her being an attractive female?
At the end of everything I felt unsatisfied with a lot of the elements and the characters. There seemed to be no stakes this season, no super main baddie, no driving theme, and a lot of characters were used to drive plot instead of having a real arc, especially Karen. She just happens to be the center of everything for the sole purpose of keeping the plot moving, I honestly find her insufferable at this point. And I still do not understand Foggy, at all. The entire season just felt like one big setup for another season as we are dropped further information The War, Blacksky, while they setup The Punisher, setup Kingpin, and move other characters into more convenient plot positions.
Any way, that's what I thought. I know that sounds all bad but like I said I enjoyed almost every episode it's just when viewed at as a whole I realized the shortcomings of the season.
Not going to address the rest of it because it's late but... no? Matt tells Karen that he's the Punisher not because he wants to bang her, but because he doesn't want to keep lying to her. I'm not sure where you got that conclusion from.
I mean sure, telling her could open the path towards a relationship down the line (or it could lead to blowback) but I don't see how that could have been the motivation for telling her the secret at all.
Calm waterfall
Banned
I finished watching this season. It was alright. The whole drama with Foggy and the relationship with Karen was so damn off putting. I was glad when Matt finally said that he is not going to apologize about who he is anymore. Electra was ok and it is awesome that we hear her heart beat at the end, so they van build on that. I have to say the whole Hand saga was not as interesting as Fisk´s. I really don´t care about Nobu or his motivation to get Electra to his side one way or another. Fisk was doing his thing in jail, i really liked that.
The choreography was good for the most part, some of it was very eh, especially when a lot of these fights happen in the dark.
Was the Blacksmith that army guy? Because it is the obvious conclusion but with comic books you never know lol. It could be a red hearing.
Edit: I really really hated Frank going off in the court room, just because a code word, from someone he did not know. It shows that Frank will always be one dimensional character and just act of revenge, and nothing else matters to him.
The choreography was good for the most part, some of it was very eh, especially when a lot of these fights happen in the dark.
Was the Blacksmith that army guy? Because it is the obvious conclusion but with comic books you never know lol. It could be a red hearing.
Edit: I really really hated Frank going off in the court room, just because a code word, from someone he did not know. It shows that Frank will always be one dimensional character and just act of revenge, and nothing else matters to him.
I think this action is a direct result of his conversation with Elektra on the roof before the final battle. If you recall, he was basically saying that if they survive this, he would run with her wherever she would run to and how he needs Daredevil to be who he is otherwise he isn't truly alive .... and how she is the only one who gets it.
She pretty much downplays him trying to claim he can only be himself with her by saying he hides from himself and doesn't let anyone else in.
I mean it is kind of weird that this happens like 10 minutes later in the show .... his "letting Karen in" reveal, but I don't think the show really wanted to drag out his mourning of Elektra over the course of how many ever episodes before he moved on back to Karen. It did seem like they were developing a strong romantic relationship before Elektra came back into the picture and ruffled the pillows.
Just finished S2.
I always thought Season 1 was good, not great, not amazing, but it was good. Some of the characters annoyed me, I thought the pacing and overall plot could be better, I hated Daredevils "new" costume he received towards the end, etc. But it was a solid show, and showed great potential.
Season 2 though, it stepped it all up. Better acting, better plot, better action. Damn. What a ride. Seriously, it was good.
The Punisher was just, amazing. Seriously. His first fight with Matt, his Prison scene, his Diner scene, WOW. Absolutely amazing performance. And the emotional scenes? He solid it. Just spectacular.
Elektra was done well also I thought.
And when Fisk showed up? That was a "oh damn!" moment for me. The writers did a real good job of setting up S3 I thought.
Now, two things slightly annoyed me:
1.) Is it just me, or did Stick seem less of a badass this season? S1 Stick seemed like he could take on just about anyone and win. In S2 it seemed like Matt or Elektra could take him.
2.) No Stone. Why not? He was on the official S2 poster as well. Oh well... maybe Season 3?
I always thought Season 1 was good, not great, not amazing, but it was good. Some of the characters annoyed me, I thought the pacing and overall plot could be better, I hated Daredevils "new" costume he received towards the end, etc. But it was a solid show, and showed great potential.
Season 2 though, it stepped it all up. Better acting, better plot, better action. Damn. What a ride. Seriously, it was good.
The Punisher was just, amazing. Seriously. His first fight with Matt, his Prison scene, his Diner scene, WOW. Absolutely amazing performance. And the emotional scenes? He solid it. Just spectacular.
Elektra was done well also I thought.
And when Fisk showed up? That was a "oh damn!" moment for me. The writers did a real good job of setting up S3 I thought.
Now, two things slightly annoyed me:
1.) Is it just me, or did Stick seem less of a badass this season? S1 Stick seemed like he could take on just about anyone and win. In S2 it seemed like Matt or Elektra could take him.
2.) No Stone. Why not? He was on the official S2 poster as well. Oh well... maybe Season 3?