Support NeoGAF

[Haunted]

This is rape, for your eyes.

Fucking ridiculous.

 

[Butane123]

I'm torn about what class I want to play with in this game. Adept, Vanguard, and Sentinel all look great to play as.

 

[Killthee]

so, uh...you have to go by foot until the DLC is released?!

Not really, there's a new dropship that drops you directly on top of the missions on the mission planets. There's no need for a Mako/Hammerhead vehicle in the base game, the DLC will add those types of missions.

 

[Mr. Sam]

Really considering getting this one. I think they might have made this one a bit more accessible than the last one - though I know some might think the first was too 'accessible' to begin with.

 

[Foil]

Fucking ridiculous.

Agreed. Hopefully Bioware can patch in a simple on/off option for it.

 

[Killthee]

You can't drive it, right?

The Hammerhead is driveable. The Kodiak Dropship isn't.

The Kodiak is in the base game, while the Hammerhead is part of the Cerberus Network "Free" DLC.

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

Really considering getting this one. I think they might have made this one a bit more accessible than the last one - though I know some might think the first was too 'accessible' to begin with.

Put incredibly where that 'a bit' is.

 

[The Librarian]

The Hammerhead is driveable.

Sweet!

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

Oh shit! My

Spoiler

fish

died.. anyone way to replace them? Went to store and they're sold out!!

 

[Revolutionary]

EDIT: nvm

 

[Meus Renaissance]

Isn't ammo effectively unlimited considering you can just collect it from the dead enemies you just killed?

 

[Keikoku]

A friend of mine is currently playing the game and just say to me that there are no more secondary planets where you can actually land. Is this true ?

 

[Peff]

A friend of mine is currently playing the game and just say to me that there are no more secondary planets where you can actually land. Is this true ?

No. You can't drive, but you definitely land on secondary planets.

 

[Alec]

Oh shit! My

Spoiler

fish

died.. anyone way to replace them? Went to store and they're sold out!!

After a few missions they'll be back for purchase.

Spoiler

Befriend Kelly on the Normandy and she'll feed them for you.

 

[RS4-]

A friend of mine is currently playing the game and just say to me that there are no more secondary planets where you can actually land. Is this true ?

There is, but not a lot of them.

Machine pistol = awesome

edit - You can definitely get 100% achievements in one playthrough

 

[Alec]

Isn't ammo effectively unlimited considering you can just collect it from the dead enemies you just killed?

You can definitely run out of ammo (especially on harder difficulties) but being able to pick it up off the people you kill certainly helps.

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

Isn't ammo effectively unlimited considering you can just collect it from the dead enemies you just killed?

technically yes but since ammo capacity is low even on fully upgraded shotgun for example, always running out even with dead enemy ammo pickups.

A friend of mine is currently playing the game and just say to me that there are no more secondary planets where you can actually land. Is this true ?

your friends wrong

 

[mescalineeyes]

technically yes but since ammo capacity is low even on fully upgraded shotgun for example, always running out even with dead enemy ammo pickups.

switch it up. I barely, if ever run out of ammo.

 

[hyduK]

You can definitely run out of ammo (especially on harder difficulties) but being able to pick it up off the people you kill certainly helps.

I'm not sure if ammo drops based on what you specialized in, or what gun you use. I never had a problem with assault rifle ammo (which was my primary) but i didn't come across much shotgun ammo or anything like that.

Also, the heavy weapon ammo doesn't drop off enemies (at least not often), you pick it up from "power cells". You can run low on it pretty fast, but that's to be expected, it's pretty powerful.

 

[zero margin]

I'm about 13 hours in...this game is amazing. And this is coming from someone who very much disliked the first game. I had every intention of playing it through the night, but at around 4:30am, I remembered that I have dinner plans with my girlfriend's parents tonight, so I had to turn in early. =( Can't wait to get back to it.

That's good to hear, I am part of that group that was not as impressed as others are with the first, complaints need not be mentioned here but that is encouraging.

 

[Alec]

I'm not sure if ammo drops based on what you specialized in, or what gun you use. I never had a problem with assault rifle ammo (which was my primary) but i didn't come across much shotgun ammo or anything like that.

Also, the heavy weapon ammo doesn't drop off enemies (at least not often), you pick it up from "power cells". You can run low on it pretty fast, but that's to be expected, it's pretty powerful.

I seem to pick up ammo based on what gun I'm currently holding.

 

[Skilotonn]

Seriously guys, that veiny picture is the death screen - it doesn't get anywhere near that bad in the middle of the fight as we've seen before...

And I don't know about you guys, but in the 86 hours I've put into Mass Effect 1, I don't think I've died more than the amount of times I can count on my hands...

Just let it go.

 

[feel]

No. You can't drive, but you definitely land on secondary planets.

Wh...wh....what????? No more offroading in random uncharted planets?? :_(

I REALLY hate everyone who complained about that in the first game.

 

[hermit7]

I seem to pick up ammo based on what gun I'm currently holding.

So ammunition is not universal? I thought that was the point in moving to the heatsinks, that all of the ammo would be able to be used interchangeably.

 

[The Librarian]

There is, but not a lot of them.

Machine pistol = awesome

edit - You can definitely get 100% achievements in one playthrough

Really now? That's good news cause I would love to get all the achievements for ME2 (was unable to do it for ME1).

 

[Peff]

Wh...wh....what????? No more offroading in random uncharted planets?? :_(

I REALLY hate everyone who complained about that in the first game.

Not yet, but they will release (free) DLC with a new vehicle.

 

[RS4-]

Pretty sure ammo is universal except for heavy weapons which you find in power cells.

Really now? That's good news cause I would love to get all the achievements for ME2 (was unable to do it for ME1).

Insanity is pretty brutal though :lol If anything it's probably just the minor achievements like "destroy xx with yy skill" a certain amount of times that could get annoying.

I'm just missing the skill based ones, insanity and the stupid weapon one. I'm missing one damn upgrade :lol

 

[Alec]

So ammunition is not universal? I thought that was the point in moving to the heatsinks, that all of the ammo would be able to be used interchangeably.

You pick up ammo based on what gun you're holding first, then when your ammo is full for that gun, it gets distributed to the other weapons in your loadout.

 

[elrechazado]

You pick up ammo based on what gun you're holding first, then when your ammo is full for that gun, it gets distributed to the other weapons in your loadout.

sigh, is there ever an explanation or a retcon for how ammo worked in the first game?

Bioware catering to the COD crowd in this game by moving to ammo counts really sucks.

 

[Alec]

Really now? That's good news cause I would love to get all the achievements for ME2 (was unable to do it for ME1).

There is an achievement for two playthroughs however, if you import a ME1 character, it makes it only one playthrough.

sigh, is there ever an explanation or a retcon for how ammo worked in the first game?

Bioware catering to the COD crowd in this game by moving to ammo counts really sucks.

No explanation or retcon that I've seen.

 

[Peff]

sigh, is there ever an explanation or a retcon for how ammo worked in the first game?

Bioware catering to the COD crowd in this game by moving to ammo counts really sucks.

IIRC the ammo doesn't change, it's still a big block divided in a ton of small projectiles, the reload is there to prevent overheating. But why you would need "ammo" for such a mechanism I don't know :lol

 

[The Elite]

Oh shit! My

Spoiler

fish

died.. anyone way to replace them? Went to store and they're sold out!!

They can die. Oh fuck, I better check up on them.

 

[The Elite]

sigh, is there ever an explanation or a retcon for how ammo worked in the first game?

Bioware catering to the COD crowd in this game by moving to ammo counts really sucks.

I recall this being explained at some point. Maybe through a loading screen. It was definitely there though.

A friend of mine is currently playing the game and just say to me that there are no more secondary planets where you can actually land. Is this true ?

They are there. It took me a while to figure out how to find them but they are definitely there. Good missions too.

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

sigh, is there ever an explanation or a retcon for how ammo worked in the first game?

Bioware catering to the COD crowd in this game by moving to ammo counts really sucks.

i think completely scraping the loot/inventory system and streamlining the powers/levelling up is more indictative of this change actually

 

[Shinjitsu]

No explanation or retcon that I've seen.

It's explained in the codex.

 

[Alec]

It's explained in the codex.

It wasn't something I cared about at all, but that's good to know for other people.

 

[elrechazado]

i think completely scraping the loot/inventory system and streamlining the powers/levelling up is more indictative of this change actually

indeed, but I've already privately mourned for those.

 

[Zeliard]

Put incredibly where that 'a bit' is.

It's amusing to me to see people talking about Mass Effect 2 being streamlined and made "accessible", as if the first game was somehow this deep, complex RPG.

Mass Effect has always been a simplistic console action-RPG, with more emphasis on the action part (the "loot" that everyone misses so much were literally palette swaps - what game were you guys playing again?). It's always been heavily shooter-based. The difference is that this time, the shooter aspect is actually playable, and even quite good. That over-the-top bloody screen when you're getting hit is pretty annoying, though.

I guess I must have had different expectations. Mass Effect has always been much more about action to me than role-playing. If you're looking for a Bioware RPG, then you should go play Dragon Age (or delve into Baldur's Gate). Their console RPGs have never and will never be deep, and they will always put emphasis on accessibility.

 

[Shrennin]

I guess I must have had different expectations. Mass Effect has always been much more about action to me than role-playing. If you're looking for a Bioware RPG, then you should go play Dragon Age (or delve into Baldur's Gate). Their console RPGs have never and will never be deep.

I like both the RPG and shooter aspects of the ME series. I think they are both equal because a roleplaying game does not dictate to me that it must have a complex customization system. As long as I feel that I am the character, then the role playing aspect of that RPG has succeeded. There are people here who have said that they watch commercials with the default Shepard and then think to themselves, "Hey! That's not Shepard!" If that's the case, then I think ME has succeeded as much as possible as an RPG franchise can succeed. It's just that ME (until the second one) has failed in the shooter aspect by trying to shove in customization typical of many RPGs but not going to the extent of those RPGs (like Dragon Age) and the shooter aspect failed as a result. This time it looks like both the shooter aspect and the RPG aspect are top notch.

The main reason complexity is usually needed in RPGs is because of the actual combat lacking. If combat is not skill based initially, then steps need to be taken to make that combat have a certain strategy to it. Now that ME2 is skill based combat wise, there really is no need for that extra layer of customization that can often get in the way of a skill (twitch) based combat system.

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

It's amusing to me to see people talking about Mass Effect 2 being streamlined and made "accessible", as if the first game was somehow this deep, complex RPG.

Mass Effect has always been a simplistic console action-RPG, with more emphasis on the action part (the "loot" that everyone misses so much were literally palette swaps - what game were you guys playing again?). It's always been heavily shooter-based. The difference is that this time, the shooter aspect is actually playable, and even quite good. That over-the-top bloody screen when you're getting hit is pretty annoying, though.

I guess I must have had different expectations. Mass Effect has always been much more about action to me than role-playing. If you're looking for a Bioware RPG, then you should go play Dragon Age (or delve into Baldur's Gate). Their console RPGs have never and will never be deep, and they will always put emphasis on accessibility.

Never made the erroneous claim that ME was DA'esque or some deep RPG.\
BUT, the RPG elements that it did have are for the most part, neutered in ME2.
Which is fine.. because the shooting mechanics have definetely been improved.

 

[DodgerSan]

I actually enjoyed not having to scrabble for ammo in the first game. I don't mind a limit on specialist ammo, but they should have kept your stock basic stuff unlimited.

 

[Basileus777]

sigh, is there ever an explanation or a retcon for how ammo worked in the first game?

Bioware catering to the COD crowd in this game by moving to ammo counts really sucks.

I was skeptical about adding ammo, but I actually ended up preferring it to the overheating system. It adds a bit of strategy to combat and forces you to use multiple weapons. ME2 has added a ton of depth to actual combat and gameplay.

Of all the changes that Bioware made to the game, the only one that really dumbs it down or makes it less of an RPG is removing the inventory/loot. And the inventory system in ME1 was a mess anyway.

IIRC the ammo doesn't change, it's still a big block divided in a ton of small projectiles, the reload is there to prevent overheating. But why you would need "ammo" for such a mechanism I don't know :lol

The ammo isn't bullets, they are clips that remove the heat from your gun.

 

[Zeliard]

I like both the RPG and shooter aspects of the ME series. I think they are both equal because a roleplaying game does not dictate to me that it must have a complex customization system. As long as I feel that I am the character, then the role playing aspect of that RPG has succeeded. There are people here who have said that they watch commercials with the default Shepard and then think to themselves, "Hey! That's not Shepard!" If that's the case, then I think ME has succeeded as much as possible as an RPG franchise can succeed. It's just that ME (until the second one) has failed in the shooter aspect by trying to shove in customization typical of many RPGs but not going to the extent of those RPGs (like Dragon Age) and the shooter aspect failed as a result. This time it looks like both the shooter aspect and the RPG aspect are top notch.

The main reason complexity is usually needed in RPGs is because of the actual combat lacking. If combat is not skill based initially, then steps need to be taken to make that combat have a certain strategy to it. Now that ME2 is skill based combat wise, there really is no need for that extra layer of customization that can often get in the way of a skill (twitch) based combat system.

Well said. The shooting aspect is essentially skill-based now (headshots matter greatly in ME2).

The combat in this game is now good to the extent that I look forward to it, which I can not say for the previous game at all. The streamlining (removal of loot and inventory) hasn't been replaced by nothing - it's been replaced by an upgrade and customization system that was nowhere to be found in the last game. So you essentially have people complaining that their palette swaps are gone and replaced by a system that lets them customize their weaponry and armor. I consider myself a loot whore, but damn.

Never made the erroneous claim that ME was DA'esque or some deep RPG.\
BUT, the RPG elements that it did have are for the most part, neutered in ME2.

And I'm saying that these "RPG elements" were already neutered to hell and back in ME1. They likely faced a situation, given the rest of how the design has gone, where they either had to scrap some things entirely or rebuild them entirely. In the case of the loot, it's been scrapped, likely because it was so useless and shitty in the first game and they didn't bother making rebuilding an entire loot system a priority.

I actually enjoyed not having to scrabble for ammo in the first game. I don't mind a limit on specialist ammo, but they should have kept your stock basic stuff unlimited.

It's a good addition to this game because there are far more weapon classes, so the ammo count adds a bit of a strategical/tactical element in terms of what weapons you want to bring along, and which ones you want to use in a given fight.

 

[EatChildren]

Never made the erroneous claim that ME was DA'esque or some deep RPG.\
BUT, the RPG elements that it did have are for the most part, neutered in ME2.

This is unfortunately going to be one of those situations where disappointment and praise is valid between both parties, based on what they enjoyed in the original and expected/wanted in the sequel.

Despite stat heavy RPGs of old being among my favourite games of all time (Torment, Arcanum, Fallout), I personally never felt the loot and stat system enhanced the gameplay of Mass Effect, and while expanding those concepts would have worked, so too would streamlining them.

As has been said, others will be disappointed. And rightly so. They're getting something that's gone in a direction they don’t prefer. But rather than label this, as some will, as a simplification with the most negative connotations, I see this as the refinement of what Mass Effect was trying to be in the first place; a story driven action adventure first, with light RPG aspects thrown in for good measure.

 

[Confidence Man]

It's amusing to me to see people talking about Mass Effect 2 being streamlined and made "accessible", as if the first game was somehow this deep, complex RPG.

Mass Effect has always been a simplistic console action-RPG, with more emphasis on the action part (the "loot" that everyone misses so much were literally palette swaps - what game were you guys playing again?). It's always been heavily shooter-based. The difference is that this time, the shooter aspect is actually playable, and even quite good. That over-the-top bloody screen when you're getting hit is pretty annoying, though.

I guess I must have had different expectations. Mass Effect has always been much more about action to me than role-playing. If you're looking for a Bioware RPG, then you should go play Dragon Age (or delve into Baldur's Gate). Their console RPGs have never and will never be deep, and they will always put emphasis on accessibility.

Whether it was a shooter first and RPG second or vice versa was a matter of perspective; it was as much one as it was the other.

I always considered it a RPG, one that happened to have shooter-based combat instead of turn-based, and I'm certainly not alone.

Now they've clearly taken it in one direction at the expense of another, so people like myself are going to be let down; even moreso by the fact that they could've made it both a better shooter and a better RPG but chose not to.

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

Well said. The shooting aspect is essentially skill-based now (headshots matter greatly in ME2).

The combat in this game is now good to the extent that I look forward to it, which I can not say for the previous game at all. The streamlining (removal of loot and inventory) hasn't been replaced by nothing - it's been replaced by an upgrade and customization system that was nowhere to be found in the last game. So you essentially have people complaining that their palette swaps are gone and replaced by a system that lets them customize their weaponry and armor. I consider myself a loot whore, but damn.



And I'm saying that these "RPG elements" were already neutered to hell and back in ME1. They likely faced a situation, given the rest of how the design has gone, where they either had to scrap some things entirely or rebuild them entirely. In the case of the loot, it's been scrapped, likely because it was so useless and shitty in the first game and they didn't bother making rebuilding an entire loot system a priority.

But personally, I don't think the upgrade/research mechanic works as well as you're giving it credit for and I actually preferred the loot system even with its pretty egregious flaws.

 

[BravoSuperStar]

The removal of the Mako makes up for them dumbing down the rest. Almost done with my 3rd playthrough of the original and I cannot express enough hatred for that goddamn piece of shit.

 

[Basileus777]

Whether it was a shooter first and RPG second or vice versa was a matter of perspective; it was as much one as it was the other.

I always considered it a RPG, one that happened to have shooter-based combat instead of turn-based, and I'm certainly not alone.

Now they've clearly taken it in one direction at the expense of another, so people like myself are going to be let down; even moreso by the fact that they could've made it both a better shooter and a better RPG but chose not to.

The game isn't a worse RPG than the first one. Is the removal of a broken inventory system really such a deal-breaker? None of the other changes remove any real depth or strategy from the game.

 

[Red]

Posting this again if any of you fine fellows would oblige:

I have one more question for the knowledgeable:
There are another set of achievements in this game that require a certain number of uses of specific abilities (i.e. hack 30 enemies). In ME1 you were forced to use Commander Shepherd's skills for these abilities to count. Since no single class has access to all the required powers, at least two character builds had to be used. Has this changed for ME2, or will multiple playthroughs still be necessary for claiming all achievements?

 

[Shrennin]

Well said. The shooting aspect is essentially skill-based now (headshots matter greatly in ME2).

The combat in this game is now good to the extent that I look forward to it, which I can not say for the previous game at all. The streamlining (removal of loot and inventory) hasn't been replaced by nothing - it's been replaced by an upgrade and customization system that was nowhere to be found in the last game. So you essentially have people complaining that their palette swaps are gone and replaced by a system that lets them customize their weaponry and armor. I consider myself a loot whore, but damn.

I love loot as well, but the first ME gave me a headache with all the "loot" you would get. All loot did for me was bring me more cash flow because I was selling all of it or turning it into omni-gel. In fact, the combat was the main reason ME1 was not one of my favorite games - I was simply playing for the experience of a BioWare conversation game, the combat was just a means I had to push through to get to the reward (conversation) where now both the combat and conversations can be a reward. It's pretty bad when I am forced to delete everything in my inventory (and by delete I mean sell or turn into omni-gel) and I suddenly feel like a big weight has been lifted off of my shoulders because I don't have to see the "inventory full" message each time I get something new that could be potentially better than what I currently have equipped.

You're right about the customization in ME2 (I forgot to mention this) - the "RPG aspects" combat wise in ME2 fit a skill based shooter perfectly (

Spoiler

pick up a weapon the Normandy SR2 scans it and makes one for each of your allies and then you can customize a base weapon even further

). That's just one of the examples of an improved system that complements both the combat and the RPG experience. At least for me.