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[Zeliard]

This is unfortunately going to be one of those situations where disappointment and praise is valid between both parties, based on what they enjoyed in the original and expected/wanted in the sequel.

Despite stat heavy RPGs of old being among my favourite games of all time (Torment, Arcanum, Fallout), I personally never felt the loot and stat system enhanced the gameplay of Mass Effect, and while expanding those concepts would have worked, so too would streamlining them.

As has been said, others will be disappointed. And rightly so. They're getting something that's gone in a direction they don’t prefer. But rather than label this, as some will, as a simplification with the most negative connotations, I see this as the refinement of what Mass Effect was trying to be in the first place; a story driven action adventure first, with light RPG aspects thrown in for good measure.

While I honestly never felt the RPG aspects in ME1 were anything worth writing home about, like the so-called "loot", I agree with this.

Mass Effect 2 is at risk for being very love it/hate it like Final Fantasy XIII apparently is and will further be. These are two games that are going in a very specific direction that either veers away from the genre or away from the series (or both), and the reaction has generally been mixed due to levels (and types) of expectations.

Perhaps the early reactions from some people for these two games will help to mediate those expectations. I personally know what to mostly expect going into FFXIII. If I hadn't heard about some of the things it's trying to do beforehand, chances are I would have been greatly disappointed upon playing it.

Whether it was a shooter first and RPG second or vice versa was a matter of perspective; it was as much one as it was the other.

I always considered it a RPG, one that happened to have shooter-based combat instead of turn-based, and I'm certainly not alone.

Now they've clearly taken it in one direction at the expense of another, so people like myself are going to be let down; even moreso by the fact that they could've made it both a better shooter and a better RPG but chose not to.

I think in that case it was a matter of time and money, and design priorities. Their design philosophy seemed to mostly consist of "either we try to fix this or we remove it entirely and replace it with something else). Ultimately they seem to have judged that the shooter aspect deserved more emphasis than some other things, presumably not only due to the reactions to the first game, but also the fact that it essentially makes up the core gameplay (something you always want to be solid).

 

[Peff]

Posting this again if any of you fine fellows would oblige:

Someone with the game posted a few pages back that you can get all of the achievements in a single playthrough.

 

[zero margin]

I love loot as well, but the first ME gave me a headache with all the "loot" you would get. All loot did for me was bring me more cash flow because I was selling all of it or turning it into omni-gel. In fact, the combat was the main reason ME1 was not one of my favorite games - I was simply playing for the experience of a BioWare conversation game, the combat was just a means I had to push through to get to the reward (conversation) where now both the combat and conversations can be a reward.

You're right about the customization in ME2 (I forgot to mention this) - the "RPG aspects" combat wise in ME2 fit a skill based shooter perfectly (

Spoiler

pick up a weapon the Normandy SR2 scans it and makes one for each of your allies and then you can customize a base weapon even further

). That's just one of the examples of an improved system that complements both the combat and the RPG experience. At least for me.

Brother? But seriously I totally agree, I love the new change in that regard.

 

[CrazedArabMan]

Just got a call from Ashley saying my pre-order is ready at gamestop, come on Tuesday!!!

 

[MentalNoiz]

From watching the streams & stuff on Youtube, I have to say I am extremely disappointed with the music . The first had such a great sound track, very unique and sci-fi sounding . From what I've heard so far, its pretty generic sounding, with more of an emphasis on an orchestral "sound" .

WTF Happened ? I don't want it sounding like every other game out there . Oy Vey .

 

[Red]

Someone with the game posted a few pages back that you can get all of the achievements in a single playthrough.

Can't find that post. Do you (or does anyone else) know how that could be possible? Is there a certain class that should be used or does ME2 have a more universal skillset? I don't have much time to play the game and I'd like to knock out as many achievements as possible right away. Might not seem like much, but I feel like I get more out of the game if I can tick off those boxes.

 

[Alec]

Whether it was a shooter first and RPG second or vice versa was a matter of perspective; it was as much one as it was the other.

I always considered it a RPG, one that happened to have shooter-based combat instead of turn-based, and I'm certainly not alone.

Now they've clearly taken it in one direction at the expense of another, so people like myself are going to be let down; even moreso by the fact that they could've made it both a better shooter and a better RPG but chose not to.

Let's not say that they removed the loot system entirely. They just changed it so it's no longer equipment based.

Instead of picking up better weapons, you find:
--Schematics which allow you to research better weapons and armor (most weapons have 7 levels to upgrade through).
--Minerals which allow you to pay for said upgrades (some upgrades are paid for with credits [money], but not very many).

You still find yourself hacking and checking every little thing that pops up on the HUD to find better loot.

 

[The Librarian]

Just got a call from Ashley saying my pre-order is ready at gamestop, come on Tuesday!!!

HI, THIS IS ASHLEY FROM GAMESTOP!

 

[Dennis]

The game isn't a worse RPG than the first one. Is the removal of a broken inventory system really such a deal-breaker? None of the other changes remove any real depth or strategy from the game.

I am sorry but it is. There is no getting around that. The depth of combat may be the same or even better than the first game but the RPG elements have most definitely been dumbed down/reduced.

You may feel this doesn't remove depth from the game, well OK, but I strongly disagree. I loved that ME was a great RPG. ME2 is less of a RPG and more shooter and I am disappointed in that and feel that it reduces the sequel.

 

[Zeliard]

I love loot as well, but the first ME gave me a headache with all the "loot" you would get. All loot did for me was bring me more cash flow because I was selling all of it or turning it into omni-gel. In fact, the combat was the main reason ME1 was not one of my favorite games - I was simply playing for the experience of a BioWare conversation game, the combat was just a means I had to push through to get to the reward (conversation) where now both the combat and conversations can be a reward. It's pretty bad when I am forced to delete everything in my inventory (and by delete I mean sell or turn into omni-gel) and I suddenly feel like a big weight has been lifted off of my shoulders because I don't have to see the "inventory full" message each time I get something new that could be potentially better than what I currently have equipped.

You're right about the customization in ME2 (I forgot to mention this) - the "RPG aspects" combat wise in ME2 fit a skill based shooter perfectly (

Spoiler

pick up a weapon the Normandy SR2 scans it and makes one for each of your allies and then you can customize a base weapon even further

). That's just one of the examples of an improved system that complements both the combat and the RPG experience. At least for me.

I could not agree more.

Frankly, my single biggest problem with the game so far is that the characters are so good that I'm struggling as far as who I want to bring along (doesn't help that I just got

Spoiler

Garrus, who I used for my entire ME1 playthrough

). :lol Kinda wish they had upped the limit to a party of 4 since you can get 10 characters on your team now.

I'm having a blast. Enjoying the game far more than the first one, which was one of my biggest gaming disappointments.

Though, I do agree with the guy above that the music in Mass Effect 2 hasn't been incredibly memorable so far. Much of the time it seems sort of generic and just blends in.

 

[funkmasterb]

IMO, Mass Effect's RPG aspect was never about the small amount of loot,(getting a green armor with +10% this or that) or whatever, and entirely about shaping the world around you with your choices. I don't agree with the 'dumbing down' comments, as the world has become hugely more complex, and the actual 'role' playing is very intense and involved now.

For example, on the first game, there were 110 gestures that could be used in a conversation. We worked very hard to broaden that to 900+. This means characters will react and speak with you in much more realistic and unique ways.

I can't specifically speak about the ending, but the amount of different ways you can finish the game and get different results is huge now, it was a herculean effort to make sure that choices you made reflected *real* changes further down the line, and I feel this huge advancement in the role playing aspect hasn't quite been discovered yet, but will once more people start playing and comparing just exactly how different their experience is compared to others.

Just IMO though

 

[Lionheart1827]

HI, THIS IS ASHLEY FROM GAMESTOP!

Haha just got my call like 5 minutes ago.

"hel-"
"HI THIS IS ASHLEY FROM GAMESTOP!!!!!!"
"AAAAHHH!!"

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

From watching the streams & stuff on Youtube, I have to say I am extremely disappointed with the music . The first had such a great sound track, very unique and sci-fi sounding . From what I've heard so far, its pretty generic sounding, with more of an emphasis on an orchestral "sound" .

WTF Happened ? I don't want it sounding like every other game out there . Oy Vey .

The soundtrack is definetely a step-down from the first (not counting the Club tracks). Thankfully you can listen to ME1 tunes in a place on your ship.

Let's not say that they removed the loot system entirely. They just changed it so it's no longer equipment based.

Instead of picking up better weapons, you find:
--Schematics which allow you to research better weapons and armor (most weapons have 7 levels to upgrade through).
--Minerals which allow you to pay for said upgrades (some upgrades are paid for with credits [money], but not very many).

You still find yourself hacking and checking every little thing that pops up on the HUD to find better loot.

Wait what? You're counting the currencies as loot? That's a stretch at best.

 

[Confidence Man]

The game isn't a worse RPG than the first one. Is the removal of a broken inventory system really such a deal-breaker? None of the other changes remove any real depth or strategy from the game.

I can't say there are any deal-breakers as I haven't played it yet, but removal of inventory/loot aside, the removal of over half of your character's stats (and all but four stats for party members) isn't a good start.

When you remove the necessity to choose, for example, to spend points to upgrade conversation skills instead of investing those points into your combat abilities, that's a degree of depth and strategy in the development of a character that's lost.

 

[Peff]

Can't find that post. Do you (or does anyone else) know how that could be possible? Is there a certain class that should be used or does ME2 have a more universal skillset? I don't have much time to play the game and I'd like to knock out as many achievements as possible right away. Might not seem like much, but I feel like I get more out of the game if I can tick off those boxes.

Here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19439155&postcount=617

My guess is that thanks to being able to

Spoiler

unlocking your allies' abilities for your Shepard during the game you can do all of those achievements. Also, the "complete x with y ally" achievements seem to be much easier because they're a single mission.

The rest don't seem too hard.

 

[Alec]

I am sorry but it is. There is no getting around that. The depth of combat may be the same or even better than the first game but the RPG elements have most definitely been dumbed down/reduced.

You may feel this doesn't remove depth from the game, well OK, but I strongly disagree. I loved that ME was a great RPG. ME2 is less of a RPG and more shooter and I am disappointed in that and feel that it reduces the sequel.

Loot does not make a good RPG.

 

[Capt'n Farrell]

I don't know if this has been asked before:

What difficulty setting should I start with if I found that "Hard" oder "Veteran" or whatever it was called was piss-easy in ME1? Is there an Insane Mode available?

 

[Dandy]

From watching the streams & stuff on Youtube, I have to say I am extremely disappointed with the music . The first had such a great sound track, very unique and sci-fi sounding . From what I've heard so far, its pretty generic sounding, with more of an emphasis on an orchestral "sound" .

WTF Happened ? I don't want it sounding like every other game out there . Oy Vey .

Nooooo!

I don't want to spoil myself so I haven't listened to the OST, but if it's like a Terminator to T2 'upgrade' I'm gonna be bummed. :|

 

[funkmasterb]

I don't know if this has been asked before:

What difficulty setting should I start with if I found that "Hard" oder "Veteran" or whatever it was called was piss-easy in ME1? Is there an Insane Mode available?

Yes there is, and it will kick your ass. LOL

I think hardcore in MEII will challenge you a lot more.

 

[Zeliard]

I can't say there are any deal-breakers as I haven't played it yet, but removal of inventory/loot aside, the removal of over half of your character's stats (and all but four stats for party members) isn't a good start.

When you remove the necessity to choose, for example, to spend points to upgrade conversation skills instead of investing those points into your combat abilities, that's a degree of depth and strategy in the development of a character that's lost.

As far as the conversation options, the game now essentially gives you Paragon/Renegade points based on the dialogue you choose, and those unlock further convo options. I think it's a more natural system because it essentially reacts to what your character is actually saying, rather than what points you decide to put in a certain talent.

 

[Dennis]

Loot does not make a good RPG.

No indeed, but loot is not the only thing to have been reduced. The severe reduction in stats and development of the character is just as important in the reduced "RPGness" of ME2.

 

[Speedymanic]

Someone with the game posted a few pages back that you can get all of the achievements in a single playthrough.

One achievement is only unlocked if you complete the game twice and if ME1 difficulty setting is like ME1, you'll have to complete the game 1-2 times to unlock Insanity.

And then there are the various biotic/weapon achievements.

 

[Alec]

As far as the conversation options, the game now essentially gives you Paragon/Renegade points based on the dialogue you choose, and those unlock further convo options. I think it's a more natural system because it essentially reacts to what your character is actually saying, rather than what points you decide to put in a certain talent.

Not to mention you're freakin' Shepherd. EVERYONE knows who you are and points in charisma shouldn't make a difference when you're a celebrity.

However, I will concede that I am defending this game to somewhat of a ridiculous degree because I feel that it is such an improvement over the first.

 

[Dennis]

I don't know if this has been asked before:

What difficulty setting should I start with if I found that "Hard" oder "Veteran" or whatever it was called was piss-easy in ME1? Is there an Insane Mode available?

You can change difficulty on the fly.

ahaha, I like how you got the german word "oder" instead of "or" - typing to fast?

 

[Zeliard]

Not to mention you're freakin' Shepherd. EVERYONE knows who you are and points in charisma shouldn't make a difference when you're a celebrity.

That is very true, and neat. Btw, lol @ Grunt:

Spoiler

Shepard.

I'm a bit saddened that I find myself going yet again with a party of

Spoiler

a Krogan and Garrus

.

Why must they make those characters so cool?

 

[stupei]

During my replay of ME1, I keep thinking one thing over and over. I'm sure it's been talked about before, but I can't stop wondering why fashion for human civilians has essentially evolved to nothing more than designs meant to draw the eye to the crotch.

I mean, what's the benefit? Other than the obvious. :lol

 

[EatChildren]

I mean, what's the benefit? Other than the obvious. :lol

Gonna have to do a lot of breeding to colonise all those planets.

 

[Peff]

One achievement is only unlocked if you complete the game twice and if ME1 difficulty setting is like ME1, you'll have to complete the game 1-2 times to unlock Insanity.

And then there are the various biotic/weapon achievements.

I think that one is also unlocked when you finish the game once with an imported character. As for insanity, I have no clue, I didn't look at the upper half of the list just in case it was spoilerrific :lol

 

[Red]

Here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19439155&postcount=617

My guess is that thanks to being able to

Spoiler

unlocking your allies' abilities for your Shepard during the game you can do all of those achievements. Also, the "complete x with y ally" achievements seem to be much easier because they're a single mission.

The rest don't seem too hard.

Thanks a lot, man. I didn't realize the ally achievements worked like that this time around. Appreciate it.

 

[Darklord]

I really hate seeing so many people play it. Hurry up Thursday.

 

[Zenith]

One question, yes or no: does the game end in a shitty cliffhanger midway through the story like the no.2 in other trilogies (Halo, Matrix, etc)?

Thanks. Should probably add in some dots so people can't tell what the answer is by the length of the spoiler tag.

 

[Red]

One question, yes or no: does the game end in a shitty cliffhanger midway through the story like the no.2 in other trilogies (Halo, Matrix, etc)?

Thanks. Should probably add in some dots so people can't tell what the answer is by the length of the spoiler tag.

From what I've heard of the ending, it seems like it's very conclusive. Of course, I haven't seen it yet so I might not be qualified to say.

 

[Kabouter]

One question, yes or no: does the game end in a shitty cliffhanger midway through the story like the no.2 in other trilogies (Halo, Matrix, etc)?

Thanks. Should probably add in some dots so people can't tell what the answer is by the length of the spoiler tag.

It ends

Spoiler

Much like the original Mass Effect ended. There's some closure, but the greater threat remains.

 

[Confidence Man]

As far as the conversation options, the game now essentially gives you Paragon/Renegade points based on the dialogue you choose, and those unlock further convo options. I think it's a more natural system because it essentially reacts to what your character is actually saying, rather than what points you decide to put in a certain talent.

Whether it's natural or not is irrelevant. Effectively it removes a this-or-that choice when it comes to how you want your character to grow over the course of the game. Not that it was implemented all that well in Mass Effect - by the end you got so many points it wasn't really an issue, but that's the thing they should've been balancing instead of just figuring no one should have any options regarding character development other than making them better at fighting.

 

[RS4-]

About the 100% achievements comment in regards to one playthrough, especially the skill xx for yy times:

I think one of them is "incinerate enemy armor 25 times" or something. Anyone that has the incinerate skill works; Mordin for example is one person that has it.
Shepard does not have to do all the skill based achievements by him/herself

Hitting level 30 is probably possible if you happen to import a level 60. I'm not too sure if there's enough sidemissions to hit level 30 via a completely new game.

 

[Alec]

Whether it's natural or not is irrelevant. Effectively it removes a this-or-that choice when it comes to how you want your character to grow over the course of the game. Not that it was implemented all that well in Mass Effect - by the end you got so many points it wasn't really an issue, but that's the thing they should've been balancing instead of just figuring no one should have any options regarding character development other than making them better at fighting.

It's not irrelevant that it's now more natural. Unfortunately, the trade-off for the dialogue and choices being more natural was the sacrifice of stats that shouldn't have an effect on Shepard in context of the new mission. I see these changes as being necessary for the evolution of the game world. However, I understand where you're coming from...I really wish you could enjoy this game as much as I do.

Mass Effect 2 is to Mass Effect how Assassin's Creed 2 is to Assassin's Creed.

 

[dejan]

Mass Effect never was and never will be Dragon Age in space. And as much as I love Dragon Age I'm totally fine with the direction BioWare chose for the series.

 

[Dan Yo]

Yes. There's a story mission that happens that allows you to pick a bonus weapon talent. I was watching a friend play, who was able to start using a Sniper with his Adept.

One other question. How can the soldier benefit from this? Since he already knows how to use every weapon type, is there another skill he will be able to learn at this point in the game? Like biotics perhaps?

 

[Y2Kev]

How do they convincingly tie "charm" into a combat battle ability?

 

[Red]

About the 100% achievements comment in regards to one playthrough, especially the skill xx for yy times:

I think one of them is "incinerate enemy armor 25 times" or something. Anyone that has the incinerate skill works; Mordin for example is one person that has it.
Shepard does not have to do all the skill based achievements by him/herself

Hitting level 30 is probably possible if you happen to import a level 60. I'm not too sure if there's enough sidemissions to hit level 30 via a completely new game.

Ok, cool. Wasn't sure if the skill-specific achievements counted if you only used your allies' abilities.

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

Mass Effect 2 is to Mass Effect how Assassin's Creed 2 is to Assassin's Creed.

Really isn't an apt comparison, at all.

 

[Y2Kev]

Mass Effect 2 is to Mass Effect how Assassin's Creed 2 is to Assassin's Creed.

Can you develop this analogy further? Assassin's Creed 2 was a game that built purely on the framework of the first game-- it complicated the formula instead of "streamlining" it. How would you say Mass Effect 2 does this?

I really hate the idea and word "streamlining." It is an insulting phrase.

 

[RS4-]

One other question. How can the soldier benefit from this? Since he already knows how to use every weapon type, is there another skill he will be able to learn at this point in the game? Like biotics perhaps?

Most likely a weapon that humans can't use.

Like this

Spoiler

There's a Krogan shotgun you could pick if you already have shotgun training

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

Most likely a weapon that humans can't use.

Like this

Spoiler

There's a Krogan shotgun you could pick if you already have shotgun training

Is that the

Spoiler

Claymore shottie

?

 

[Dan Yo]

Can you develop this analogy further? Assassin's Creed 2 was a game that built purely on the framework of the first game-- it complicated the formula instead of "streamlining" it. How would you say Mass Effect 2 does this?

I really hate the idea and word "streamlining." It is an insulting phrase.

Probably just means that Like AC, ME was not all it promised to be, and both sequels change that.

 

[Zeliard]

Most likely a weapon that humans can't use.

Like this

Spoiler

There's a Krogan shotgun you could pick if you already have shotgun training

Do the other

Spoiler

alien weapons have some sort of block like that one has? It mentions that the reason humans can't use the Krogan shotgun is because the kickback is so powerful it would break their arms. It would likewise break the game's internal logic if a human could suddenly use it.

Is it a similar sort of thing for the other weapons humans can't use?

 

[Ephemeris]

IMO, Mass Effect's RPG aspect was never about the small amount of loot,(getting a green armor with +10% this or that) or whatever, and entirely about shaping the world around you with your choices. I don't agree with the 'dumbing down' comments, as the world has become hugely more complex, and the actual 'role' playing is very intense and involved now.

For example, on the first game, there were 110 gestures that could be used in a conversation. We worked very hard to broaden that to 900+. This means characters will react and speak with you in much more realistic and unique ways.

That's pretty impressive. From 110 to 900+? Poor animators. :lol I actually like the way your squad looks at you while you [Shepard] talk to someone else. My team-mates in ME1 didn't seem to pay attention to whatever I was saying.

 

[Dan Yo]

Most likely a weapon that humans can't use.

Like this

Spoiler

There's a Krogan shotgun you could pick if you already have shotgun training

Interesting. You can equip this but are unable to use it?

 

[Y2Kev]

Probably just means that Like AC, ME was not all it promised to be, and both sequels change that.

Well, that's definitely good. I like the first Mass Effect a lot. It is a very, very flawed game. The interface is garbage, a lot of the systems are not very well balanced, the combat is subpar, the performance is awful, and the graphics and animation do not hold up very well. But the game has a certain charisma to it-- all of the characters have distinct, fun personalities, the plot is engaging, and Shepard is cool. As long as Mass Effect 2 maintains those elements, I know I'll be at least happy with the final product, but hearing over and over that they've ripped out things that didn't work in the first game instead of just fixing them does give me pause. I also have a little concern over the changed tone of the game, because historically (including the first game), Bioware's poorest writing comes when the tone turns most serious (Kaiden: SMELLS LIKE SMOKE AND DEATH).

I am pretty sure I am going to like this game, but I have to say I find something sort of inherently unsettling about the further "streamlining" of the RPG genre.

 

[Zeliard]

Interesting. You can equip this but are unable to use it?

You can only equip that weapon on

Spoiler

a Krogan

. The in-game reasoning is

Spoiler

that its kickback is so powerful that it'll break a human's arms, and presumably any other species outside of a Krogan.