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[Ducarmel]

I still don't understand that really. Why do the Reapers need the Citadel conduit at all if they can just wake up on their own and still kill everything? Does Sovereign's destruction wake them up? Is it just the idea that a sneak attack is beneficial?

I think in ME1 the AI prothen thing said when shit went down Sovereign tricked them into going to the citadel and that is the trap that how the Reapers quickly killed everybody and then spread out to the other systems and finished off whatever was left.

And since we stop that I guess the reapers will have to go with a direct approach which might take the surprise away from the attack.


As for not keeping the collector ship look what happened when we went for the IFF.

 

[Y2Kev]

Yeah, I agree with that. It seems to be the element of surprise. I want to learn in ME3 how the reaper fleet woke up.

 

[adamsapple]

I am not. But it would be interesting to see what happens between the reapers and the much inferior geth in the next game.

Edit: Although its spelled out in this game. The two possible outcomes are that either geth loose in a straight up fight with the Reapers, or get reprogrammed and join them.

That was a ME1 Ashley reference to your Joker "Size isn't everything" comment

The last shot with all the Reaper ships looking over the milky way galaxy... That truly was awe-inspiring.

How many of you destroyed/saved the Collector base? I opted to save it.

Destroyed it, Galaxy isn't ready for that kind of technology. Especially in Cerberus's hands.

 

[The Librarian]

They didn't die for nothing--you still stopped the human reaper. But in the scheme of things, the entire mission was kind of narrowly focused. If you think about it in reference to what you see at the end. They weren't even actually close to a completed reaper and, according to EDI, would need millions of humans.

The Citadel races are still going to need every advantage they can get. How do you suppose they take on that many Reaper ships?

 

[Cep]

They didn't die for nothing--you still stopped the human reaper. But in the scheme of things, the entire mission was kind of narrowly focused. If you think about it in reference to what you see at the end. They weren't even actually close to a completed reaper and, according to EDI, would need millions of humans.

Not to mention that reaper tech does weird shit to you and Cerberus has an ABSURD lack of morals and I would not put much by them.

Besides, no way that we could have know that the Reapers were still coming.

Also, I cultivated both Legion, the Rachni AND the Quarians for help in the third game, they may be less willing if an unfettered human Black ops group has reaper tech.

 

[Lostconfused]

That was a ME1 Ashley reference to your Joker "Size isn't everything" comment

Actually the joker reference was a two parter. The last line was his response but it couldn't really post it like that now could I.

 

[LiK]

and besides, if you guys change your mind, just replay the final mission and choose the other decision. two saves to import for the next game

 

[KaYotiX]

destroyed it. everyone agreed with my decision when i talked to them after the credits.

Same here, i told the MAN to F off and blew it sky high!! Everyone also agreed after i talked to them.

 

[Y2Kev]

The Citadel races are still going to need every advantage they can get. How do you suppose they take on that many Reaper ships?

No no, I agree with you. I'm saying that this one particular "suicide mission" to destroy the Collectors--when it was originally launched-- is pretty small in scope compared to wiping out the entire Reaper fleet. That the Illusive Man informed Shepard he could save the Collector ship comes afterwards, and it looks like a large number of players are not saving it anyway.

By the by, I expect the non-Citadel races to get involved too. The Rachni are definitely, 100% going to be involved. They're going to make their triumphant return in ME3 when the chips are down and bail out the Turians or something.

Cep raises a good point above--having the Reaper technology may make the other races less willing to cooperate with humanity and Cerberus.

Besides, no way that we could have know that the Reapers were still coming.

What do you mean? The Illusive Man says from the very beginning that he acknowledges that the Reapers are the real threat, and Shepard says at the end of ME1 that the reapers are the real threat and are still out there. But if you're questioning how they woke up without their Vanguard (Sovereign), I agree with that--maybe we will learn in ME3.

 

[Lostconfused]

Well if you follow the arguments the reapers make, its impossible to beat them by just trying to nab more advanced technology. Simply because that would be co opting their technology which makes you actions predictable. EDI makes the argument that she can't pilot the ship because a better AI like Geth or Reapers would be able to predict all her actions. In the end the Reapers are sitting at the top and no random piece of technology found lying around will save humanity from them. The solution has to come out of the left field.

That is of course if you believe Sovereign and everything he said wasn't just a huge bluff.

 

[LiK]

No no, I agree with you. I'm saying that this one particular "suicide mission" to destroy the Collectors--when it was originally launched-- is pretty small in scope compared to wiping out the entire Reaper fleet. That the Illusive Man informed Shepard he could save the Collector ship comes afterwards, and it looks like a large number of players are not saving it anyway.

By the by, I expect the non-Citadel races to get involved too. The Rachni are definitely, 100% going to be involved. They're going to make their triumphant return in ME3 when the chips are down and bail out the Turians or something.

i haven't played ME1 for so long that i had forgotten about the Rachni until a NPC delivered her message to me on Illium. that was pretty awesome. i was like "OH YEA!, i remember you!" :lol

 

[Y2Kev]

Well if you follow the arguments the reapers make, its impossible to beat them by just trying to nab more advanced technology. Simply because that would be co opting their technology which makes you actions predictable. EDI makes the argument that she can't pilot the ship because a better AI like Geth or Reapers would be able to predict all her actions. In the end the Reapers are sitting at the top and no random piece of technology found lying around will save humanity from them. The solution has to come out of the left field.

That is of course if you believe Sovereign and everything he said wasn't just a huge bluff.

Well, even if he was bluffing, you are right that you can't use Reaper tech against the Reapers without some kind of modification.

Maybe a giant space nuke deployed from Future Hillary Clinton's snatch. A space snatch nuke.

 

[The Librarian]

No no, I agree with you. I'm saying that this one particular "suicide mission" to destroy the Collectors--when it was originally launched-- is pretty small in scope compared to wiping out the entire Reaper fleet. That the Illusive Man informed Shepard he could save the Collector ship comes afterwards, and it looks like a large number of players are not saving it anyway.

By the by, I expect the non-Citadel races to get involved too. The Rachni are definitely, 100% going to be involved. They're going to make their triumphant return in ME3 when the chips are down and bail out the Turians or something.

Cep raises a good point above--having the Reaper technology may make the other races less willing to cooperate with humanity and Cerberus.

Ah. Well, I'm about to replay the final mission again to see if I can't save everyone and I'm going to choose the different ending.

 

[LiK]

Ah. Well, I'm about to replay the final mission again to see if I can't save everyone and I'm going to choose the different ending.

telling the Illusive Man off is well worth it.

 

[Cep]

What do you mean? The Illusive Man says from the very beginning that he acknowledges that the Reapers are the real threat, and Shepard says at the end of ME1 that the reapers are the real threat. But if your questioning how they woke up without their Vanguard (Sovereign), I agree with that--maybe we will learn in ME3.

That is exactly what I mean. We could not have possibly known that the reapers would be coming RIGHT NOW.

Besides, saying that "they are out there and they are a threat" is just a bit too abstract for me.

 

[adamsapple]

I bet ME3's gonna involve finding and using a newly unearthed prothean device or something that'll destroy the reapers once and for all ...

That is exactly what I mean. We could not have possibly known that the reapers would be coming RIGHT NOW.

Besides, saying that "they are out there and they are a threat" is just a bit too abstract for me.

But doesn't Shep specifically say "Harbinger is coming" to the Illusive man at the end ? seems like they're aware of that now ..

 

[Cep]

I bet ME3's gonna involve finding and using a newly unearthed prothean device or something that'll destroy the reapers once and for all ...



But doesn't Shep specifically say "Harbinger is coming" to the Illusive man at the end ? seems like they're aware of that now ..

Only after the station was destroyed and Harbinger said that humans had failed and that they would find another way(I assume a harder way, like traveling from the void.)

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Where do they actually mention the size of the geth fleet?

Edit: Also size isn't everything. You need firepower too.

The heretics were a supposedly tiny tiny minority of the geth, and the fleet that attacked the citadel was immensely powerful and fucked shit up badly...so much so that all the other citadel races other than the alliance were on their knees after the assault. Also if you scan and read the descriptions from the geth controlled worlds they all seem to be massively defended, it's only the normandys stealth systems that allows you to travel freely.

You also discover that if the quaring ever decide to go to war then everyone seems to agree that they'd get their asses kicked, and the quarians are no pussies, they have the largest fleet in citadel space of around 50,000 ships, not warships sure but i imagine every single one of them is armed or has some kind of defense.

 

[The Librarian]

I bet ME3's gonna involve finding and using a newly unearthed prothean device or something that'll destroy the reapers once and for all ...

If so, then the Protheans would've been able to fend off the attack on them. That's not going to happen.

But doesn't Shep specifically say "Harbinger is coming" to the Illusive man at the end ? seems like they're aware of that now ..

How does Shep find out about Harbinger again?

And what did you all decide about the geth? Did you convert the Heretics or did you kill them?

 

[adamsapple]

So just for kicks .. what do you guys think the odds are that Miranda's father is the Shadow Broker ?

How does Shep find out about Harbinger again?

Joker shows him the monitor with Harbinger (or what appears to be a reaper) on it at the end, I'd imagine Edi was pulling data from the Collector base the whole time.

 

[Y2Kev]

That is exactly what I mean. We could not have possibly known that the reapers would be coming RIGHT NOW.

Besides, saying that "they are out there and they are a threat" is just a bit too abstract for me.

Sure. Definitely want to know how the Reapers were awakened and how long it takes them to travel from Dark Space. I am going to bet the answer is something like they got a buzz on their cellies after Sovereign ate it.

BTW, I did not know Sovereign's real name was Nazara. This game has a lot of biblical stuff in it. Xenoeffect total

How does Shep find out about Harbinger again?

Joker hands him the data pad at the end with data on Harbinger--it was probably recovered from the Collectors. We can also see what looks like the same data on the screen at the very end of the game. Harbinger-controlled Bug Daddy deletes it before Harbinger releases him.

 

[Lostconfused]

I bet ME3's gonna involve finding and using a newly unearthed prothean device or something that'll destroy the reapers once and for all ...

Unlikely. Protheans are only slightly more advanced than the existing council races. The only reason everyone thought the protheans were extremely advanced was because the construction of the mass relays and the citadel were atributed to them.

I personally think the way to beat the reapers will have something to do with biotics and that mysterious connection between all living things, or the force or maybe midichlorians if you prefer.

 

[Cep]

If so, then the Protheans would've been able to fend off the attack on them. That's not going to happen.


How does Shep find out about Harbinger again?

Harbinger is always saying nice things to him:

"This hurts you"
"We are your genetic destiny"
"If I have to tear you apart Shepard, I will"

 

[Fox the Sly]

Loved this part. :lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jQ4njgeX_g

 

[The Librarian]

Harbinger is always saying nice things to him:

"This hurts you"
"We are your genetic destiny"
"If I have to tear you apart Shepard, I will"

How did she find out his name, though? Was it when he said "I am the harbinger of your death" ?

 

[JambiBum]

Why did you destroy it? I mean, I felt better about my decision when I saw all those Reaper ships overlooking the galaxy. There's no way the combined fleet of all the Citadel races can take on that many Reaper ships. Hell, they barely managed to kill one. They're going to need every advantage they can get. Besides, if the station were destroyed, all of those people who were killed died for nothing.


They don't need the Citadel, but it's the easiest way to achieve victory. Plus, it probably takes much longer to travel there without some sort of mass relay.

I saved it as well. Decided that since I went through all that effort I was going to come out of it with something. My crew wasn't very happy with that decision but I decided that it was still worth it. Even told the IM to shut up at the end.

Also for anyone who didnt get to a level 30 by the end but ended up getting close. If you start up a new game and run through the very beginning again (where you first meet the IM) you get about 1500 exp. Bumped me up from a 28 to a 30.

 

[Lostconfused]

The heretics were a supposedly tiny tiny minority of the geth, and the fleet that attacked the citadel was immensely powerful and fucked shit up badly...so much so that all the other citadel races other than the alliance were on their knees after the assault. Also if you scan and read the descriptions from the geth controlled worlds they all seem to be massively defended, it's only the normandys stealth systems that allows you to travel freely.

You also discover that if the quaring ever decide to go to war then everyone seems to agree that they'd get their asses kicked, and the quarians are no pussies, they have the largest fleet in citadel space of around 50,000 ships, not warships sure but i imagine every single one of them is armed or has some kind of defense.

The geth fleet that attacked the citadel was immensely powerful because of Sovereign. The most powerful ship in the galaxy. Also we don't know how the exact number of ships that were defending the citadel.

Quarians do have the largest fleet. But how many of those ships can stand up to a dreadnought in any of the fleets of other races.

 

[Cep]

How did she find out his name, though? Was it when he said "I am the harbinger of your death" ?

Well, they are 'Reapers' and he said he was the 'Harbinger of our destruction' so seeing that we have nothing else to call him, seems logical we would call him harbinger, we were doing so way before the end of the game.

 

[Y2Kev]

How did she find out his name, though? Was it when he said "I am the harbinger of your death" ?

The name Harbinger is purely an organic construction anyway--just like Sovereign--but he got the name from the data pad at the end.

I raised this question before: if the Reapers have been using organic races to make themselves for the past few cycles (like the Protheans, say), why do they all look like scuttlefish? So gross.

 

[LiK]

IMPORTANT!!!

did you guys talk to EDI after she took over the Normandy? all the restricted access is gone so i was able to learn everything about how Cerberus works. that was cool.

 

[selig]

Unlikely. Protheans are only slightly more advanced than the existing council races. The only reason everyone thought the protheans were extremely advanced was because the construction of the mass relays and the citadel were atributed to them.

I personally think the way to beat the reapers will have something to do with biotics and that mysterious connection between all living things, or the force or maybe midichlorians if you prefer.

Well, as i speculated on the previous page, I think beating the Reapers requires "technology" on par with them. Something that can equally fight these giant "battle ships".
At least that´s what i hope for. I´d hate it if Bioware gave Shepard/the citadel folks some deus ex machina-trick that destroys all Reapers in one shot. That´d require us to believe that previous alien races weren´t as smart as the current ones are, which I would find hard to believe.

So really, the solution of beating the Reapers has to be related to the unique successful missions of Shepard and Co.. Especially the human Reaper. That or a time machine :/

 

[Cep]

The geth fleet that attacked the citadel was immensely powerful because of Sovereign. The most powerful ship in the galaxy. Also we don't know how the exact number of ships that were defending the citadel.

Quarians do have the largest fleet. But how many of those ships can stand up to a dreadnought in any of the fleets of other races.

Going by how the IM reacted to them, I would say that their fleet is capable enough

 

[Ducarmel]

How does Shep find out about Harbinger again?

And what did you all decide about the geth? Did you convert the Heretics or did you kill them?

You guys did not realize Harbinger was talking to you every encounter you had with the collectors.

I played the game twice and choose differently both times it does not seem like it makes a difference Legion pointed out there will be pokets of Heretics left still loyal to the old machines.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Why did you destroy it? I mean, I felt better about my decision when I saw all those Reaper ships overlooking the galaxy. There's no way the combined fleet of all the Citadel races can take on that many Reaper ships. Hell, they barely managed to kill one. They're going to need every advantage they can get. Besides, if the station were destroyed, all of those people who were killed died for nothing.

Well, seems that the point of the game is that using and relying on reaper tech and using things they don't understand is what got everyone in this mess to begin with, it's what their entire civilization is based around. One it's gone or turns on them they crumble...opening pandoras box as it were.

The majority geth chose to go their own path and control their own destiny and they seem to be all the stronger for it.

 

[Lostconfused]

Well, as i speculated on the previous page, I think beating the Reapers requires "technology" on par with them. Something that can equally fight these giant "battle ships".
At least that´s what i hope for. I´d hate it if Bioware gave Shepard/the citadel folks some deus ex machina-trick that destroys all Reapers in one shot. That´d require us to believe that previous alien races weren´t as smart as the current ones are, which I would find hard to believe.

So really, the solution of beating the Reapers has to be related to the unique successful missions of Shepard and Co.. Especially the human Reaper. That or a time machine :/

Except the point is that having technology on the same level as the reapers won't work because they would be ready for that outcome.

Going by how the IM reacted to them, I would say that their fleet is capable enough

I guess I never got that bit. But I wouldn't go to IM for any advice on military action either.

 

[Cep]

You guys did not realize Harbinger was talking to you every encounter you had with the collectors.

I played the game twice and choose differently both times it does not seem like it makes a difference Legion pointed out there will be pokets of Heretics left still loyal to the old machines.

I think that along with some of the Genophage discussions, this was the best morality choice in the game.

Mass Brainwashing or Xenocide?

Well, seems that the point of the game is that using and relying on reaper tech and using things they don't understand is what got everyone in this mess to begin with, it's what their entire civilization is based around. One it's gone or turns on them they crumble...opening pandoras box as it were.

The majority geth chose to go their own path and control their own destiny and they seem to be all the stronger for it.

This is why I love Legion.

 

[Y2Kev]

You guys did not realize Harbinger was talking to you every encounter you had with the collectors.
.

This is kind of lame though, because the only thing you have to go on is the name of the guy in the health bar. It is an assumption on the part of the player to assume Harbinger is a reaper and not just the collector general's name, unless you put together that during the FIRST time you see the collector general, his subtitle says "Collector General."

You can see Harbinger at the end of the game in the hologram in front of the Collector General. He has four yellowish glowing eyes. You see the same thing on the data pad handed to Shepard by Joker. Then, in the final scene of the game, you see a giant reaper with four yellow glowing eyes in front of the Reaper Fleet.

It's Harbinger, I bet.

edit: I am into the fiction of this world like no other game I've played before. lol

I didn't realize that until the very end where it actually says "Releasing direct control" and you see the holographic reaper closing off and the collector leader looses the glowy eyes .. i was like "OH SHIT, THIS FUCKER WAS UNDER CONTROL THE WHOLE DAMN TIME TOO !"

Exactly. Same thing with me, and I'm not sure how you could figure it out any other way other than a) noticing Collector General was also glowing a bit yellow and assuming that was not from HIS control of the minions or b) piecing together that the Collector General had a different name from the subtitles.

 

[adamsapple]

You guys did not realize Harbinger was talking to you every encounter you had with the collectors.

I didn't realize that until the very end where it actually says "Releasing direct control" and you see the holographic reaper closing off and the collector leader looses the glowy eyes .. i was like "OH SHIT, THIS FUCKER WAS UNDER CONTROL THE WHOLE DAMN TIME HIMSELF !"

and then the Joker note pad, shep saying it to the Illusive man and the final shot of the reapers just solidified that.

 

[selig]

Except the point is that having technology on the same level as the reapers won't work because they would be ready for that outcome.

how so?

also, so you want a shitty "believe and you can do anything"-ending?

 

[LiK]

This is why I love Legion.

Legion was a nice surprise party member. i was wondering who was the last guy to join up. another twist to the overall story.

 

[Ducarmel]

That is exactly what I mean. We could not have possibly known that the reapers would be coming RIGHT NOW.

Besides, saying that "they are out there and they are a threat" is just a bit too abstract for me.

Just before you destroy terminator Harbringer said you have awoken those that which are far more powerful then you or something like that.

 

[Lostconfused]

how so?

also, so you want a shitty "believe and you can do anything"-ending?

Because the reapers have done this several times already. They had all the time in the world to play out every single possible scenario and prepare for it.

 

[Cep]

I didn't realize that until the very end where it actually says "Releasing direct control" and you see the holographic reaper closing off and the collector leader looses the glowy eyes .. i was like "OH SHIT, THIS FUCKER WAS UNDER CONTROL THE WHOLE DAMN TIME TOO !"

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I kind of saw it coming, but it was the biggest surprise that was not completely retarded.

Also, Harbinger calls gives himself the title at some points.

 

[The Librarian]

You guys did not realize Harbinger was talking to you every encounter you had with the collectors.

Yeah, I knew it.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I kind of saw it coming, but it was the biggest surprise that was not completely retarded.

The Collectors being enslaved Protheans was an awesome surprise/twist.

 

[LiK]

Yeah, I knew it.

the Harbinger's voice was pretty cool. made the final battle more epic.

 

[Cep]

Just before you destroy terminator Harbringer said you have awoken those that which are far more powerful then you or something like that.

I know, but prior to that, it WAS just a general: "They are out there"

Yeah, I knew it.


The Collectors being enslaved Protheans was an awesome surprise/twist.

Not that big of a surprise. My reaction was: Okay, so what.

 

[Y2Kev]

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I kind of saw it coming, but it was the biggest surprise that was not completely retarded.

Also, Harbinger calls gives himself the title at some points.

Sovereign calls himself Sovereign to Shepard but we know that's not his name either

 

[Lostconfused]

Honestly I am not sure how I feel about ancient beings of light defeating the machine devils. Its kind of hilarious that it would turn out to be true but then it might also be kind of weird and lame.

 

[The Librarian]

Not that big of a surprise. My reaction was: Okay, so what.

...

:|

 

[Cep]

Sovereign calls himself Sovereign to Shepard but we know that's not his name either

lol true, but we do not know harbinger's real name either.

I really liked the last last scene with his voice over and how relinquishing control was so familiar, yet different.

Combined with the crescendoing music, and it was epic.