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[Zen]

So you should only voice your opinion when it's positive? I'm sorry if you find the level of vitrol in the discourse to be distasteful, but that can't be used as a shield to dismiss the reaction itself.

Sorry, but that's bullshit. If you read a novel and the novel has a bad ending, do you demand that the writer change it? No. You say, I enjoyed it, but the ending was a bit of a letdown. Same with movies. Same with music, for god's sake. This is entitlement. They finished the game the way that they wanted, telling the story that they wanted to tell. Some people don't like it. That's not anybody's problem to fix; it's the people who don't like the ending's problem to get over.

This isn't entitlement, I don't particularly feel like I deserve anything, but I can tell you with complete honesty that the ending is a shit product that has severely dwindled my interest in the franchise and fiction, and preferably, Bioware could learn from their mistakes. I'm angry at how bad the ending is because I'm invested and the ending wasn't enjoyable, that's not entitlement. Having a reaction to something isn't entitlement simply because the reaction is negative.

We're talking about a franchise that has since day one relied on differing opinions and feedback to shape its development. From day one Bioware has cultivated a vocal fanbase, and this isn't like other more static mediums where there is little possibility for changes or narrative shifts. We've seen such shifts in narrative, and the universe with each game, in response to feedback. Players weren't being spoiled entitlment babies when they said they wanted better combat mechanics after ME1. Game designers want your feedback to help improve their commercial products.

 

[whatevermort]

Uhh...you missed some tearing.

I meant literally physically torn apart in the incessant baying for blood. As it stands, he's had a lot of high profile jobs, made some decent if slightly underperforming games in recent years, and now inspired a thread about his new job where people say how much they're looking forward to what he throws up.

This is ludicrous. This whole argument is insane. They made a game. You don't like an aspect of it. They will not change it for you. If there is some bizarre TRUTH OMG ending in the works as DLC, it'll be planned a whole ago and will probably still piss you off.

People actually want a 'The Ending was all a dream!' thing now? Jesus.

 

[finowns]

The Angry Joe vid got it right.

 

[elrechazado]

I meant literally physically torn apart in the incessant baying for blood. A.

Oh, so you were making a ridiculous strawman bullshit argument while trying to portray others as irrational? Got it.

 

[Zen]

I meant literally physically torn apart in the incessant baying for blood. As it stands, he's had a lot of high profile jobs, made some decent if slightly underperforming games in recent years, and now inspired a thread about his new job where people say how much they're looking forward to what he throws up.

This is ludicrous. This whole argument is insane. They made a game. You don't like an aspect of it. They will not change it for you. If there is some bizarre TRUTH OMG ending in the works as DLC, it'll be planned a whole ago and will probably still piss you off.

People actually want a 'The Ending was all a dream!' thing now? Jesus.

Seems like you're the one that's losing your grip on the situation. Why would you make a completely out there argument while you're trying to say that everyone else is being crazy?

 

[Replicant]

Again: rubbish. I've seen trailers for movies with scenes in them that aren't in the final film. Should I storm those castles and demand reparations? Some movies divide critics: some see art movies as dross, others love them. I know somebody who loves Transformers 2. It's a fucking dreadful film, but he loves it. That's fine. Whatever. You didn't like ME3. Okay. So... You know. Move on. Play something else.

That's a pathetic argument. Watching trailer (which is free) is not the same as buying 2 installment of game series, both of which have familiar narrative and game mechanics only to change them in the final stage completely to the point all of your decisions were irrelevant.

 

[whatevermort]

So you should only voice your opinion when it's positive? I'm sorry if you find the level of vitrol in the discourse to be distasteful, but that can't be used as a shield to dismiss the reaction itself.



This isn't entitlement, I don't particularly feel like I deserve anything, but I can tell you with complete honesty that the ending is a shit product that has severely dwindled my interest in the franchise and fiction, and preferably, Bioware could learn from their mistakes. I'm angry at how bad the ending is because I'm invested and the ending wasn't enjoyable, that's not entitlement. Having a reaction to something isn't entitlement simply because the reaction is negative.

We're talking about a franchise that has since day one relied on differing opinions and feedback to shape its development. From day one Bioware has cultivated a vocal fanbase, and this isn't like other more static mediums where there is little possibility for changes or narrative shifts. We've seen such shifts in narrative, and the universe with each game, in response to feedback. Players weren't being spoiled entitlment babies when they said they wanted better combat mechanics after ME1. Game designers want your feedback to help improve their commercial products.

Totally agree with this. You can be disappointed, dislike it, hate it, even. It's not you that's being stupid: it's the people begging Bioware - demanding, even - that they listen to a divided fanbase and change the ending. They can factor it into ME4 - or whatever - and I totally expect Dragon Age 3 to be a product of said feedbacks. But to get them to retcon a game that they've released and is already on shelves... That's the insanity.

I work in games. I know what fans can be like. You can't please them, and designers, and directors, and publishers, and reviewers. You can't please them all. Two of us at my work have finished ME3 so far, and we both really enjoyed the whole game, ending and all. That makes it a matter of personal taste. So I don't want it changed. Different strokes etc etc.

 

[Dresden]

it's a subset of gamers who hate the ending who feel entitled - yes, that word - to more based on things that Bioware have or haven't said or delivered in the past.

I feel entitled to a quality product

ending was shit; product suffers

asking for product fix = too much entitlement?

if fixed; more likely to consider their products in the future

if not fixed; less likely to consider their products in the future

evolving relationship between consumer and producer!

very nature of DLC economy promote evolving products

positive feedback gewd

negative feedback bad

apologists stupid

why not entitled? we customer

customer who pay

 

[neojubei]

Best summation of it IMO in video form
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H_A7SeawU4&list=LLv6VtvI0UhQZIbJ547RhEKw&feature=mh_lolz



.

I love Jeremy's videos.

Jeremy makes a point. Actually yeah, doing an all paragon play through should have a good ending. Showing the lasting effects of Shepard uniting everyone would have been cool like Krogan and Turian working together and Geth and Quarian living together.

Now i am depressed at the ending....

 

[whatevermort]

I feel entitled to a quality product

ending was shit; product suffers

asking for product fix = too much entitlement?

if fixed; more likely to consider their products in the future

if not fixed; less likely to consider their products in the future

evolving relationship between consumer and producer!

very nature of DLC economy promote evolving products

positive feedback gewd

negative feedback bad

apologists stupid

why not entitled? we customer

customer who pay

So here's a question: what happens to those who enjoyed the ending? Do you feel that they should be given your ending instead?

 

[lastplayed]

Heh, never noticed this before.

 

[elrechazado]

So here's a question: what happens to those who enjoyed the ending? Do you feel that they should be given your ending instead?

They should literally be physically torn apart. Then you'd be vindicated.

 

[Dresden]

So here's a question: what happens to those who enjoyed the ending? Do you feel that they should be given your ending instead?

they have choice

choice to refuse patch / update / dlc

new changes not equal forced changes

the subset of gamers who enjoyed the ending get to enjoy the ending, while those who did not, get a chance to reassess their opinion of the product

why so bad?

 

[Empty Space]

I meant literally physically torn apart in the incessant baying for blood. As it stands, he's had a lot of high profile jobs, made some decent if slightly underperforming games in recent years, and now inspired a thread about his new job where people say how much they're looking forward to what he throws up.

This is ludicrous. This whole argument is insane. They made a game. You don't like an aspect of it. They will not change it for you. If there is some bizarre TRUTH OMG ending in the works as DLC, it'll be planned a whole ago and will probably still piss you off.

People actually want a 'The Ending was all a dream!' thing now? Jesus.

Again: rubbish. I've seen trailers for movies with scenes in them that aren't in the final film. Should I storm those castles and demand reparations? Some movies divide critics: some see art movies as dross, others love them. I know somebody who loves Transformers 2. It's a fucking dreadful film, but he loves it. That's fine. Whatever. You didn't like ME3. Okay. So... You know. Move on. Play something else.

Not really. People promise things. By this logic, Molyneux would have been torn apart by gamers by now. People promise things will be good: they are sometimes not. The 'If you hire somebody to do a job and they do it badly' thing is flawed, as nobody's hiring Bioware to do anything. You're buying an end product that they have created. And they can promise anything and renege on it, because this isn't Kickstarter. Nobody's paid a deposit they can't get back at the start of development; everybody who is actually invested in the success of ME3 is happy; it's a subset of gamers who hate the ending who feel entitled - yes, that word - to more based on things that Bioware have or haven't said or delivered in the past.

Your points fails to address the fact that ME3 is a game and thus different from the other two mediums you give as examples. Developers are constantly asking for feedback to iterate on their products and people respond. Often times when a developer can respond to something wrong with there current game through DLC they do. Bioware has do this before with their own DLC no less with things like Lair of the Shadow Broker and Witch Hunt. Bethesda another RPG developer has done something fairly identical to what players are asking with Fallout 3. This isn't entitlement this is people presenting criticism about something that is very flawed in many ways to developer who has shown precedent for trying to integrate fixes to complaints about a story.

 

[whatevermort]

they have choice

choice to refuse patch / update / dlc

new changes not equal forced changes

the subset of gamers who enjoyed the ending get to enjoy the ending, while those who did not, get a chance to reassess their opinion of the product

why so bad?

What about future disc versions? Will you force this new ending - made by a committee of fans, I'm assuming - on new purchasers? What happens if they don't like the ending you guys have all decided should be made instead?

 

[Alrix]

I feel entitled to a quality product

ending was shit; product suffers

asking for product fix = too much entitlement?

if fixed; more likely to consider their products in the future

if not fixed; less likely to consider their products in the future

evolving relationship between consumer and producer!

very nature of DLC economy promote evolving products

positive feedback gewd

negative feedback bad

apologists stupid

why not entitled? we customer

customer who pay

they have choice

choice to refuse patch / update / dlc

new changes not equal forced changes

the subset of gamers who enjoyed the ending get to enjoy the ending, while those who did not, get a chance to reassess their opinion of the product

why so bad?

If you were trying to get people to hear Mordin's voice in their heads while reading these last two posts, you succeeded. well done sir.

 

[UnluckyKate]

Garrus is driving me somewhere.

Is he trying to romance me?


I'm terrified.

Best scene in the entire universe.


Also, I bet Liara will have time to work on the mass relay now that she's alone in the jungle. While Joker and Edi are making out, she'll build mini mass relays and go back to earth. THen, start to build all the mass relay back.

Liara adventure to find material in the jungle DLC, for only 15$

 

[Kurtofan]

So here's a question: what happens to those who enjoyed the ending? Do you feel that they should be given your ending instead?

Well the DLC ending should be optional.

 

[fuenf]

Day 1 after the ending: It feels so much worse! Why do i care about a videogame this much? I dont get it. The more i think and read about it the worse it gets. Didnt know that the flashbacks at the end were supposed to include the most important characters but replace every ME2 love interest with Liara. The game needed more Miranda, her mission was one of the bests in the game.

 

[elrechazado]

What about future disc versions? Will you force this new ending - made by a committee of fans, I'm assuming - on new purchasers? What happens if they don't like the ending you guys have all decided should be made instead?

You seem to be against any patch or change to any movie, book, tv show, story, or game ever made because somewhere, someone likes the original that they saw first. Seems as reasonable as your other hyperbole.

 

[Dresden]

What about future disc versions? Will you force this new ending - made by a committee of fans, I'm assuming - on new purchasers? What happens if they don't like the ending you guys have all decided should be made instead?

your argument fails to take into account

the fact that

discs produced right now not carry new ending*

DLC ending requires those who want it to opt in, whether it be

free

or pay

a work is never set in stone; damn it as revisionism if you must

---

* porpoise misunderstanation

 

[DSix]

There exist precedence. Blade Runner ending was dogshit, and it got fixed later on. Everybody is glad about that, now that legendary movie is not tainted by last minute bullshit.
I want the same thing to happen to ME3.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Bioware/EA are the creators. They have a right to do what they wish with their intellectual property, and the right to market, distribute, and sell instances of it. No one is denying that. But getting hung up on 'entitlement' and 'reparations' entirely misses the point. If someone feels aggrieved because a company, author, artist, musician, whoever fails to deliver on a promise or undercuts their previous work in spectacularly disastrous fashion, then anyone and everyone is, yes, 'entitled' to express their dissatisfaction in any way they see fit (within reason). That's all that's happening here.

 

[Rokam]

So here's a question: what happens to those who enjoyed the ending? Do you feel that they should be given your ending instead?

They get an ending that makes sense. Where your squad isn't magically transported to the Normandy, where the Normandy isn't running away for no reason, where you can point out that you just rallied the Geth to your cause, where the relays aren't destroyed or an explanation as to why them being destroyed didn't result in the death of billions, so on and so forth.

 

[Risette]

What about future disc versions? Will you force this new ending - made by a committee of fans, I'm assuming - on new purchasers? What happens if they don't like the ending you guys have all decided should be made instead?

Well the easy solution, given the game we are discussing here, is to make the old ending one of the choices you can choose since you got choice to choose in this game and all.

 

[Riposte]

A Mass Effect 4 which was basically "Lost in Space" would be real neato, but it simply doesn't work that way given the technology the Normandy has available.

 

[JerkShep]

Best summation of it IMO in video form
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H_A7SeawU4&list=LLv6VtvI0UhQZIbJ547RhEKw&feature=mh_lolz



Are you mocking my answer or just taking stabs at a a SOIAF I can't really tell.

The latter, I actually agree with your statement.
OT And I really want Ending DLC for ADWD, I'm still bitter about the "Ending is ready but oh no book is too long, let's cut it and put it in the next book that will be released 6 fuckin years from now. If the old man doesn't die earlier, that is" /OT

Ok I'm done, back to the ME3 ending shitstorm

 

[Pezking]

So here's a question: what happens to those who enjoyed the ending? Do you feel that they should be given your ending instead?

Well, I decided to ignore "End of Evangelion" and still consider the final TV episode as the true ending. It's not that hard.

The game as it is already has multiple endings. Another ending from a different point of view or a continuation of the ending(s) we already got wouldn't hurt at all.

If done right, it could even redeem the ending(s) we currently got. It doesn't have to replace them!

 

[Phat Michael]

Just started my insanity playthrough. this game is even better the 2nd time round!

Its funny i notice people come on here more to bitch about the game then actually enjoying it. Its such a great game and the ending was fine. I guess people have to find a way to bitch but i liked it.

 

[Empty Space]

What about future disc versions? Will you force this new ending - made by a committee of fans, I'm assuming - on new purchasers? What happens if they don't like the ending you guys have all decided should be made instead?

Treat like it Bethesda does it's GoTY compilations. All DLC is a separate disc you can install dlc how you see fit when you want or never. Since you like referring to other mediums so much let me use that as an example too. Movies do something like this with director's cuts where they have the original and the director's cut on the same disc. Never want to see the directors cut, because it ruins your memory of the original movie then don't watch it.

 

[Zen]

Totally agree with this. You can be disappointed, dislike it, hate it, even. It's not you that's being stupid: it's the people begging Bioware - demanding, even - that they listen to a divided fanbase and change the ending. They can factor it into ME4 - or whatever - and I totally expect Dragon Age 3 to be a product of said feedbacks. But to get them to retcon a game that they've released and is already on shelves... That's the insanity.

I work in games. I know what fans can be like. You can't please them, and designers, and directors, and publishers, and reviewers. You can't please them all. Two of us at my work have finished ME3 so far, and we both really enjoyed the whole game, ending and all. That makes it a matter of personal taste. So I don't want it changed. Different strokes etc etc.

I agree with you that you generally can't please some consumers no matter what. I do also think that it's entirely reasonable for people to have enjoyed the ending. However I would also say that this level of negative feedback points towards a failing of the product. Generally, you don't want your core fanbase, one that, in so far as Bioware is concerned has been extremely loyal throughout the years, to be this divided and upset over the ending. Given the level of feedback, I think it wouldn't be that hard to guess that the majority of their hardcore fans are disapointed, and that's a problem for them.

I think you have just as much right to say that you don't want a changed ending as do the people that want it to be changed, so I don't really get your objection to the fact that a relatively large and vocal amount of fans are loudly voicing their opinions, aside from the fact that they're loud.

Let them be loud, it's up to Bioware to interpret the data.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

Day 1 after the ending: It feels so much worse! Why do i care about a videogame this much? I dont get it. The more i think and read about it the worse it gets. Didnt know that the flashbacks at the end were supposed to include the most important characters but replace every ME2 love interest with Liara. The game needed more Miranda, her mission was one of the bests in the game.

It doesn't get better, even after a few days later (especially if you're in the middle of another playthrough that will stop once Harbinger's beam hits you). I've been trying to communicate my disappointment to my girlfriend, but it's very... very difficult.

 

[Rokam]

Just started my insanity playthrough. this game is even better the 2nd time round!

Its funny i notice people come on here more to bitch about the game then actually enjoying it. Its such a great game and the ending was fine. I guess people have to find a way to bitch but i liked it.

The game itself is great no one here will dispute that, at least I hope not. It's that last 5-10 minutes.

 

[Replicant]

What about future disc versions? Will you force this new ending - made by a committee of fans, I'm assuming - on new purchasers? What happens if they don't like the ending you guys have all decided should be made instead?

There's a big difference between a few people not liking your product to a whole set of fanbase all complaining about the same issue. You have big problem if you don't realize that the later is PR disaster that needs to be solved or it will negatively affect fanbase's perception of your company. If it hasn't already. And think of the cascading effect. You think those fanbase won't tell their friends and family about how said company has treated their customers?

 

[Riposte]

The game itself is great no one here will dispute that, at least I hope not. It's that last 5-10 minutes.

Game is only okay. Hopes crushed.

 

[Risette]

You seem to be against any patch or change to any movie, book, tv show, story, or game ever made because somewhere, someone likes the original that they saw first. Seems as reasonable as your other hyperbole.

Film revisionism is a bad bad thing, but the way Mass Effect works makes it possible to preserve everything should they decide to go back and change things through the power of choice. Which is like, one of the advertised features of all the games.

Well, I decided to ignore "End of Evangelion" and still consider the final TV episode as the true ending. It's not that hard.

Why would you do that considering they tell the same story?

(let's not get too offtopic here though)

 

[Rokam]

Game is only okay. Hopes crushed.

You bastard.

 

[fuenf]

So here's a question: what happens to those who enjoyed the ending? Do you feel that they should be given your ending instead?

Does it even matter? Thats the fundamental problem with multiple endings in videogames (granted that ME3 has technically only one ending ): The first ending you get is most often the most influential. Same shit happened to me in Heavy Rain, where i got the worst possible outcome and almost threw my PS3 out of the window. Fortunenately i was able "to fix" the ending but that didint provide the same satisfaction than archieving it on the first try, it just provided some sort of closure. Closure thats all i want from ME3, at least give me a slideshow epilogue or something.

 

[Rokam]

Off topic did Bioware ever respond to the fact that it's impossible to get the Shepard living ending without playing multiplayer or do they just not consider that the best ending?

 

[matrix-cat]

I just want to know how Garrus and Joker singlehandedly repopulated what I assume is the only planet left undestroyed. I mean, am I reading that wrong? We saw in Arrival that blowing up a Mass Relay pretty much destroys a whole system, so blowing up all the Relays destroys everything ever. And then I guess the Normandy gets sucked through some kind of space explosion wormhole onto some distant planet in another universe, and then Buzz Aldrin and the 'child' who is clearly just an adult character model scaled down are the descendents of Adam (Garrus) and Steve (Joker). Right?

I actually chose the wrong ending because I forgot what the kid said and he wouldn't let me talk to him again or explain... anything, but then I went and saw the rest on Youtube and realised they're all the same ending with different colours of explosion so I guess it doesn't matter that much.

 

[Shake Appeal]

The game needed more Miranda, her mission was one of the bests in the game.

Miranda stayed classy throughout and did her own thing. In doing so, she also made a key contribution to the plot. And then she bowed out gracefully. I am glad she stayed largely clear of ME3's accelerating trainwreck toward the end.

<3 u Lawson. Run free.

 

[Dresden]

I just want to know how Garrus and Joker singlehandedly repopulated what I assume is the only planet left undestroyed. I mean, am I reading that wrong? We saw in Arrival that blowing up a Mass Relay pretty much destroys a whole system, so blowing up all the Relays destroys everything ever. And then I guess the Normandy gets sucked through some kind of space explosion wormhole onto some distant planet in another universe, and then Buzz Aldrin and the 'child' who is clearly just an adult character model scaled down are the descendents of Adam (Garrus) and Steve (Joker). Right?

I actually chose the wrong ending because I forgot what the kid said and he wouldn't let me talk to him again or explain... anything, but then I went and saw the rest on Youtube and realised they're all the same ending with different colours of explosion so I guess it doesn't matter that much.

Imagine this, but with Joker (fucking dextros man, how do they work):

 

[Empty Space]

Off topic did Bioware ever respond to the fact that it's impossible to get the Shepard living ending without playing multiplayer or do they just not consider that the best ending?

No although it is an outright lie and because of that I don't really expect them to say anything about it.

 

[StuBurns]

I didn't like the ending, or the two 'options' I was given, I think it'd have been cool if they'd have actually given a compelling reason for the reaper attacks and had you choose to allow them carry on. The reasoning for them was terrible, as were both of my options (and the third seems even worse).

Other than a bad ending, I think the game is great, much better than ME2. ME1 was that Star Trek thing of being humanity's best, heading some super advanced ship, dealing with the politics of the races, ME3 was a very welcome return to that. ME2 is practically Oceans Eleven in space.

 

[Riposte]

If I could change one thing about Mass Effect 3:

If Zaeed Massani dies in your suicide mission in ME2, he is still alive in ME3 and when asked how he could possibly be alive he gives you one of his classic insane Zaeed stories. Maybe it involves surfing a baby reaper into a Mass Relay (which is how Cerberus got it?).

 

[Shake Appeal]

Game is only okay. Hopes crushed.

Co-signed. Some way off making Bioware's top five.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

If I could change one thing about Mass Effect 3:

If Zaeed Massani dies in your suicide mission in ME2, he is still alive in ME3 and when asked how he could possibly be alive he gives you one of his classic insane Zaeed stories. Maybe it involves surfing a baby reaper into a Mass Relay (which is how Cerberus got it?).

Zaeed was pretty disappointing in this game. I kept clicking him to hear some crazy shit but he only said 1 thing over and over

 

[fuenf]

Miranda stayed classy throughout and did her own thing. In doing so, she also made a key contribution to the plot. And then she bowed out gracefully. I am glad she stayed largely clear of ME3's accelerating trainwreck toward the end.

<3 u Lawson. Run free.

now thats a spin i can live with!

 

[Dresden]

Miranda stayed classy throughout and did her own thing. In doing so, she also made a key contribution to the plot. And then she bowed out gracefully. I am glad she stayed largely clear of ME3's accelerating trainwreck toward the end.

<3 u Lawson. Run free.

Meanwhile Jacob cheats on femshep if she romanced him and is a total schmuck who gets shot down by a Cerberus grunt. All while Miranda is fighting cyberninjas and reaper monsters and shit. What a chump.

 

[Alrix]

http://social.bioware.com/633606/polls/28989

Honestly, approval ratings for the endings seem kinda high.